Shi/Xu/Xie/Bu; Veggie debate; Appreciation; Recommended reading

[Guest guest]

It is somewhat unproductive to pursue the letter with such zeal that

one may lose in the endeavor, the spirit.

 

We often read an alien concept and interpret it by the words of one's

own spoken language.

 

In that sense, most practitioners will get by what they think the concept of

xu and shi means. In time they will refine those ideas by the experience

they

gained working with living flesh, making. by and large, academic

interpretation

of word and nuance, superfluous.

 

As it is, very words in nay language, mutate in structure, and over

centuries,

begin to mean something very different from what it originally meant.

 

The lone healer, who stands by the patient in a quiet little room, knows

what flux is, and ebb.

 

As the Bard said in the East,

 

What else can be said, when I cannot unravel the thread

But know the flow of the weave, and the harsh carp of the warp.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.

[Guest guest]

1) Words

 

As Wiseman points out (via Zev), and I had earlier learned (and verified in

contemporary Chinese lexicons), Shi includes a sense of solid or full, and

Xu a sense of hollow or empty. My sense is that in the medical context both

have a connotation of being TOO MUCH in either direction, i.e. out of a

normative range of physiological function, as threats to homeostasis. The

terms " deficiency " and " excess " share that sense of expressing too much in

either direction.

 

Though I highly value the work of Wiseman et al, I still find it awkward to

adopt a strict usage of their terminology, especially in informal contexts.

In terms of texts and translations, it is extremely valuable to have this

system followed, as one can trace back to the exact Chinese character when

needed. (I especially appreciate the format, as the in the recently

released ShangHanLun, of supplying Chinese, PinYin with accents, and then

nearly literal translation. English-only interpretive translations leave me

with an uneasy sense of not being able to discern the boundary between the

original text and the author's often liberal interpretation.)

 

" Tonify " and " Sedate " (for Bu and Xie) are also sometimes useful in

informal explanations, because of their familiarity, and the fact that they

also both connote counteracting a situation of too much. With clarification

that it is the pathogen (or the physiological response to it) that is the

target of application, and not the person. I.e. " sedate " the excessiveness

of the wind or the heat, but not sedating the patient. Dictionary

definition: sedate (medically) to reduce/lessen excitement, irritation,

pain. Note " reduce " in there.

 

Some authors adopt stricter terminological guidelines for justifiable

reasons: Wiseman et al to give us systematic tools to help us keep in

contact with the original terms; Dr. Leon Hammer (Contemporary Chinese

Pulse Diagnosis) to provide for clear communication in making available a

rich and precise methodology. Others remain more flexible, and often

acknowledge a multiplicity of terms on the English side while maintaining a

degree of precision with respect to the Chinese terms. E.g. Jeffery C.

Yuen, as in his lecture & workshop given last year at the Pacific Symposium

on Atx point functions where he maps out a wide range of differentiation

and precision found in the Chinese terms, but generally remains flexible as

to what exact term to use in English.

 

In fact, it may be that using multiple related terms in English is a good

strategy in informal explanations, as any strict one-to-one equation of

Chinese character to English word implies more systematization, per se,

than accuracy of meaning. Often the best communication of the meaning(s) of

a Chinese term is approached by triangulating from multiple English words

(concepts), as I find in the method of Claude Larre/Elizabeth Rochat de la

Vallee.

 

2) Meat

 

In line with the remarks as to cultural diversity and traditions when it

comes to diet and eating habits, the realization goes way back in the West

- " de gustibus non disputandi " (Roman/Latin saying: " it's no use arguing

about personal tastes/preferences " ). As many have done here, any strict

guidelines should probably be qualified to a cultural, theoretical or

personal context, rather like the notion of " health " itself.

 

The cruelty/murder issue is another matter. It's well documented that the

operations of the food industry (at least in the USA) is driven more by

efficiency (profit) than compassion. Native American teachings include the

notion that all living beings ultimately give their life that other beings

may live, and that taking life (in any form, animal or plant, etc.) for

one's own sustenance (or for one's people) requires doing so in a " sacred

manner " .

 

A problem is our secular culture attempts to hide, deny this universal

responsibility/culpability. And the inherent hypocrisy in many

protestations against animal butchering for food or fur, by people living

lifestyles in urban environments which is predicated on massive and

systematic destruction of living ecological systems and their inhabitants

from the microscopic to the mammalian level. (This applies, in my

experience (and hearsay) more in the USA than in some regions of Europe,)

 

3) This forum has become a uniquely valuable resource, as well as an

interesting study in attitudes and styles. I don't think many people read

this far in my lengthy messages, but thank you all!

 

4) BTW In the latest issue of " Alternative Therapies " , Dr. Larry Dossey

writes a remarkable editorial on newness/novelty from multiple perspectives

and applications.

 

And in the same issue, a research paper on the use of magnets (for knee

pain), exhibiting unusually detailed attention to methodology, e.g. placebo

masking, that all of us interested in scientific validation of CAM/AOM

should appreciate. (Ted Kaptchuk, no surprise, is in the list of authors.)

 

5) As a reader of this forum in the " digest " format, I would like to note

that some 70-80% of the digest content is repetition of prior messages.

People tend to respond, often with just a line or two of text, but include

the often lengthy list of prior messages. I'm not sure how to educate forum

users about this, as it happens in all the AOM related forums I receive.

(The only place it's more controlled is in another forum, of advanced

computer/technology types who are more sensitive to wasting band-width and

have cultivated good email habits.)

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris!

 

Say, I hope you have more pull than I. I got roasted last week for using

the N. A. phrase . . .

 

At 05:58 AM 5/1/2004, you wrote:<snip> Native American teachings include the

>notion that all living beings ultimately give their life that other beings

>may live, and that taking life (in any form, animal or plant, etc.) for

>one's own sustenance (or for one's people) requires doing so in a " sacred

>manner " .

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Your point taken. Let me keep mine.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Keikobad and listers,

 

I agree that one's interpretation of " words " changes with experiences.

 

I have set up my own personal framework for understanding health and

medicine based upon my own years of experience with taiji, qigong,

TCM, and classical chinese medicine.

 

For me, the basic nature of the human body is freeflowing blood, qi,

and fluids. If the " energy " is flowing then the body is in the best

position to maintain its health (life). The freeflow of energy should

exist within the body (the " small dao " ) and between the body and the

external energetic world (the " big dao " ). Our body has various gates

within itself (the channels and meridians) and between itself and the

outside world (the entry gates) which manage this flow.

 

If obstructions occur within this channels of freeflowing energy, then

problems develop. Terms such as excess and deficient, full and empty

desribe the state of the energy on both sides of these obstructions.

It is like a beaver dam being built on a river. By removing the dam,

the energy flows and conditions of excess/deficiency or the

fullness/emptiness are dissipated. However, there will always be

conditions of Yang/Yin somewhere. For example, the energy entering

from the " heavens " (bai hui) will be relatively yang compared with the

energy from the earth (yong quan) because this yang/yin polarity is

what creates " movement " (life).

 

So, basically, from my perspective, good health is freeflowing qi.

" Balance " is a natural manifestation when obstructions - e.g.,

physical, emotional, and spiritual - are removed. Interestingly, I

have noticed that friends of mine who use tuina, inevitably notice

emotional changes in their life as they proceed toward " cure " - yet

there is very little taught in schools on how to deal with these type

of " changes " . I like what Mark Seems says on this subject and would be

very interested in any other resources and viewpoints. Thank you.

 

Regards,

Rich

 

Chinese Medicine , " homi kaikobad "

<aryaone@e...> wrote:

> It is somewhat unproductive to pursue the letter with such zeal that

> one may lose in the endeavor, the spirit.

>

> We often read an alien concept and interpret it by the words of one's

> own spoken language.

>

> In that sense, most practitioners will get by what they think the

concept of

> xu and shi means. In time they will refine those ideas by the experience

> they

> gained working with living flesh, making. by and large, academic

> interpretation

> of word and nuance, superfluous.

>

> As it is, very words in nay language, mutate in structure, and over

> centuries,

> begin to mean something very different from what it originally meant.

>

> The lone healer, who stands by the patient in a quiet little room, knows

> what flux is, and ebb.

>

> As the Bard said in the East,

>

> What else can be said, when I cannot unravel the thread

> But know the flow of the weave, and the harsh carp of the warp.

>

> Dr. Holmes Keikobad

> MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

> www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

> NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.

[Guest guest]

Chris and Dr. Holmes,

I appreciate your responses on this controversial subject.

 

Folks, it depends on who is doing the translation and interpreting of

the Chinese terms. Dr. Holmes, I don't know your level of expertise in

translation, but Chris I know from 13 years ago has excellent Chinese

skills. For most students and practitioners without these skills,

dependent on translators, there is much confusion about terms because

of the different English equivalents used by different authors. It

becomes very difficult to know what an author is talking about at

times. And if you ask a typical student or practitioner to explain

what a term such as qing yang/clear yang, zhuo yin/turbid yin (as

opposed to 'pure and impure'), they won't be able to do so. There may

be different English equivalences for Chinese terms used. . . this to

me is not the issue. The issue is accurate translation, with

explanations given for term choices. Otherwise, the author is talking

to his or herself.

 

And, Dr. Holmes, I am sorry, but as much as I enjoy poetic expression

such as yours, I have to disagree in thinking that any practitioner

will understand Chinese medicine and its terminology solely through

practice. Chinese medicine has always been a literary and academic

subject, with a technical terminology. We cannot just make up fanciful

words for the Chinese terms, especially when we don't understand the

original use of the terms in their original context. Simply adapting

English translated terms and interpreting them to suit our whims is

fantasy at best. No medicine on this planet would base itself on such

a flimsy foundation.

 

 

 

 

On May 1, 2004, at 2:58 AM, wrote:

 

>

> In fact, it may be that using multiple related terms in English is a

> good

> strategy in informal explanations, as any strict one-to-one equation

> of

> Chinese character to English word implies more systematization, per

> se,

> than accuracy of meaning. Often the best communication of the

> meaning(s) of

> a Chinese term is approached by triangulating from multiple English

> words

> (concepts), as I find in the method of Claude Larre/Elizabeth Rochat

> de la

> Vallee.

 

On May 1, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Rich wrote:

 

> We often read an alien concept and interpret it by the words of one's

> > own spoken language.

> >

> > In that sense, most practitioners will get by what they think the

> concept of

> > xu and shi means. In time they will refine those ideas by the

> experience

> > they

> > gained working with living flesh, making. by and large, academic

> > interpretation

> > of word and nuance, superfluous.