Chinese Tx of RA & SA - formulas and machine?

April 30, 2004

Hi Attilio

> ... RA (rheumatoid arthritis) and AS (ankylosing spondylitis) ward

> ... [is directed by] ... Dr Yie XiaoPing, a ... specialist in ...

> these two disabling diseases. All patients are categorised with

> the same syndrome - KI Xu with Wind-Damp-Cold Bi, mainly in GV

> [with subclassifications into] KI Yang [Xu]/KI Yin [Xu] and

> Hot/Cold. The formula is standardised throughout the ward and is

> altered to treat the two varieties Hot/Cold and Yin/Yang. ...

> external and sometimes internal formulas used as secrets ...

> that's China ...

Can you get the details of the basic formula and its variations for

Hot/Cold and Yin/Yang?

> ... Tuina is not allowed on any RA or AS sufferer as this can

> damage to the body. However, the machine used to treat all

> sufferers ... looks very similar to a CAT scanner but smaller. It

> massages the body using vibrations that mimic different Tuina

> techniques. ... the machine [also] sprays ... a herbal formula on

> the GV and over the body. It shows good results and costs 50,000

> yuan. I'll try and find out the details of the manufacturer, but I

> do know its made by Shen Zhen Liante Industry. Attilio

What is the $ or Euro equivalent of 50,000 yuan?

Can you get the name of the instrument, the formula of the

medicinal spray?

Best regards,

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May 1, 2004

Attilio wrote: > ... Tuina is not allowed on any RA or AS sufferer as this can

damage to the body. However, the machine used to treat all sufferers ... looks

very similar to a CAT scanner but smaller. It massages the body using vibrations

that mimic different Tuina techniques. ... the machine [also] sprays ... a

herbal formula on the GV and over the body. It shows good results ...

Hi Attilio,

I was a sufferer of the beginnings of ankylosing spondylitis ... as my mother,

brother and sister all have had advanced forms of this ... our family has the

HLA-B27 marker that's correlated for AS. I managed to dodge the bullet in my

30s by getting advanced tui na from Dr. Ping Qi Kang in S.F. The bone spurring

that would have led to the ankylosing completely receded. Radiographs show

normal vertebral body surfaces now. That experience opened my eyes to what's

possible with regard to tui na and AS.

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

May 1, 2004

I always despair when I see hasty decisions made that lead to

eliminating entire modalities in the treatment of illness. There are

many different stages of disease, many different patterns and

manifestations. Tuina may not be useful for ALL patients with RA and

SA, but as Emmanuel has demonstrated, it can be a life saver in the

right hands.

It seems to me that the same, probably administrative thinking in

Chinese hospitals has led to severely limiting the use of acupuncture

and moxabustion as well in the treatment of disease.

On Apr 30, 2004, at 4:12 PM, Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

>

> Attilio wrote: > ... Tuina is not allowed on any RA or AS sufferer as

> this can damage to the body. However, the machine used to treat all

> sufferers ... looks very similar to a CAT scanner but smaller. It

> massages the body using vibrations that mimic different Tuina

> techniques. ... the machine [also] sprays ... a herbal formula on the

> GV and over the body. It shows good results ...

>

> Hi Attilio,

>

> I was a sufferer of the beginnings of ankylosing spondylitis ... as

> my mother, brother and sister all have had advanced forms of this ...

> our family has the HLA-B27 marker that's correlated for AS. I managed

> to dodge the bullet in my 30s by getting advanced tui na from Dr. Ping

> Qi Kang in S.F. The bone spurring that would have led to the

> ankylosing completely receded. Radiographs show normal vertebral body

> surfaces now. That experience opened my eyes to what's possible with

> regard to tui na and AS.

>

> Respectfully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

>

May 1, 2004

Hi Attilio

i just wander Zhong ri hospital is a proper TCM hospital or WM hospital?

do you known the back ground of this hospital? it sound like the chinese and

japanese hospital.

joe

Emmanuel Segmen <susegmen wrote:

Attilio wrote: > ... Tuina is not allowed on any RA or AS sufferer as this can

damage to the body. However, the machine used to treat all sufferers ... looks

very similar to a CAT scanner but smaller. It massages the body using vibrations

that mimic different Tuina techniques. ... the machine [also] sprays ... a

herbal formula on the GV and over the body. It shows good results ...

Hi Attilio,

I was a sufferer of the beginnings of ankylosing spondylitis ... as my mother,

brother and sister all have had advanced forms of this ... our family has the

HLA-B27 marker that's correlated for AS. I managed to dodge the bullet in my

30s by getting advanced tui na from Dr. Ping Qi Kang in S.F. The bone spurring

that would have led to the ankylosing completely receded. Radiographs show

normal vertebral body surfaces now. That experience opened my eyes to what's

possible with regard to tui na and AS.

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

May 1, 2004

Dear Emmanuel,

I very much concur with your views. My family and my friends have been

using (and learning about) for about 15 years. We

have used many different modalities including acupuncture, tuina,

herbals, cupping, qigong, gua sha, etc. We have found tuina combined

with qigong, cupping, and gua sha to be the most overall effective

modality in returning the body to a state where qi and blood are

freeflowing so that the body is free of obstructions (i.e., acute and

chronic health problems) and is therefore in a state of active health

(i.e, is able to manage future acute and chronic problems).

Nowadays, our friends, who previously used acupuncture as their

primary modality, are more and more embracing tuina and medical qigong

as their preferred modality. It will be interesting to watch and see

whether the tuina/qigong approach gains more attention as time goes on.

Regards,

Rich

>

> I was a sufferer of the beginnings of ankylosing spondylitis ... as

my mother, brother and sister all have had advanced forms of this ...

our family has the HLA-B27 marker that's correlated for AS. I managed

to dodge the bullet in my 30s by getting advanced tui na from Dr. Ping

Qi Kang in S.F. The bone spurring that would have led to the

ankylosing completely receded. Radiographs show normal vertebral body

surfaces now. That experience opened my eyes to what's possible with

regard to tui na and AS.

>

> Respectfully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

>

May 2, 2004

Hi Rich, Attilio and All,

Thank you for your commentary, Rich. I'm learning that " TCM " in the northern

mainland urban hospitals (in places like Beijing and Shanghai) tend to be strict

and somewhat limited in their use of CM modalities. Both Attilio and Z'ev have

mentioned this. Rey Taquia on another list noted that SARS was treated more

effectively through CM modalities in the south of China than in the north ...

mainly because authorities were willing to apply CM to SARS in the south and not

just WM medications.

That said, I did not mean to make a special case for tui na except to say I was

successfully treated for AS with tui na. While Dr. Kang is a tui na master, he

was also the Chief of TCM has the Shanghai Hospital #1 (the former French

Hospital) for about 14 years. He is renown for a wide range of treatment

modalities including acupuncture, moxa, cupping and herbal formulas. Like some

of the teachers that Attilio is coming across in Beijing, Dr. Kang seems to have

strong opinions about what modality works best and fastest for various problems.

Someone had mentioned (I can't remember who just now) that CM and WM compete a

bit for which works best or fastest in a given situation. This sort of

competition is not always the best for patient management or outcomes. It's

better when they work in mutual support.

At any rate the kind of approach that you are describing, Rich, is one that I've

mainly seen offered by the more traditional practitioners rather than the acute

care hospital based practitioners. I tend to connect with both types for my own

healthcare, edification and education. As you've described, I also like the

taiji & qigong training I get from more traditional practitioners. I like the

intense clinical insights and efficacy that I get from connecting with Dr. Kang.

We are lucky to live in a time and place where both are available. I hope this

continues to be the case.

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

-

Rich

Dear Emmanuel,

I very much concur with your views. My family and my friends have been using

(and learning about) for about 15 years. We have used many

different modalities including acupuncture, tuina, herbals, cupping, qigong, gua

sha, etc. We have found tuina combined with qigong, cupping, and gua sha to be

the most overall effective modality in returning the body to a state where qi

and blood are freeflowing so that the body is free of obstructions (i.e., acute

and chronic health problems) and is therefore in a state of active health (i.e,

is able to manage future acute and chronic problems).

Nowadays, our friends, who previously used acupuncture as their

primary modality, are more and more embracing tuina and medical qigong as

their preferred modality. It will be interesting to watch and see whether the

tuina/qigong approach gains more attention as time goes on.

Regards,

Rich

>

> I was a sufferer of the beginnings of ankylosing spondylitis ... as my

mother, brother and sister all have had advanced forms of this ... our family

has the HLA-B27 marker that's correlated for AS. I managed to dodge the bullet

in my 30s by getting advanced tui na from Dr. Ping Qi Kang in S.F. The bone

spurring that would have led to the ankylosing completely receded. Radiographs

show normal vertebral body surfaces now. That experience opened my eyes to

what's possible with regard to tui na and AS.

>

> Respectfully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

>

May 3, 2004

Hi Phil,

Am away from my pc at the moment, so please wait a few days for the standardised

formula.

The name of the machine is a steam-bed, otherwise i haven't found any more info

than that. I'll try again in a few weeks, as i'm not at that hospital anymore

and will need to go back and find it.

50,000 yuan in pounds sterling is about 3,000. 15 yuan = 1 pound. Please do the

maths for Euro and dollars, don't have the details locally.

The external spray is a secret formula, surprise, surpirse. So no hope there.

< wrote: