Why some lose wieght and some do not

April 22, 2004

Hi Majid & All,

> In clinical practice we see that some lose weight and some do not.

> Can anybody explain why? Dr.Fadaie

As I wrote earlier, my experience is that MOST lose weight in the

first few weeks, but almost ALL of them return to their original

weight sooner or later. IMO, this is because they return to their old

bad habits.

However, Z'ev wrote that one can get better results in obese

patients if one ignores Cookbook AP and treats weekly for 1 year

according to the Pattern Differentiation at each visit. He wrote:

> The basic approach I learned from Michael Broffman some 20 years

> ago involved treating obese patients once a week over a 12-month

> period, working with seasonal changes, behavior, diet and exercise,

> to return a person to their normal metabolic function, and

> therefore normal weight, rather than specific points to lose

> weight. The approach involves ongoing pattern differentiation as

> the basis of Tx, with no cookbook points (or cookbook herb

> formulas). Zhu Dan-xi talks about this in his " Extra Treatises

> Based on Investigation and Inquiry " (Blue Poppy Press). He says

> that to try to use draining/reducing methods to lose weight doesn't

> address the usual SP-ST Xu of these patients, and will actually

> damage SP in the long term. This supports your contention that

> acupuncture scripts of this type don't really work for long-term

> weight loss.

IMO, Irish people will NOT return every week for 1 year for ANY

treatment by AP. My rule of thumb, to which I adhere in most

cases, is to quit AP if there is no clear improvement after 2-4

sessions.

Best regards,

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April 22, 2004

Phil,

I think the question is what the patient and physician are focusing

on. I think that one can accomplish some weight loss (at least on a

short term basis, as you've pointed out) with a few treatments, but

without other modalities (herbs, perhaps counseling) and lifestyle

changes, acupuncture/moxa cannot make a complete change within that

time.

Most cases of obesity involve dysfunction of qi transformation, i.e.

separation of clear and turbid by the spleen and stomach, perhaps also

with patterns of liver qi depression, liver/spleen disharmony, or

kidney qi or yang vacuity complicating the issues. Depending on how

long the person has been overweight, there may be blood stasis and/or

phlegm accumulation as well. These patterns are deep-set, and some of

the issues may be constitutional. These can only be overcome by

long-term treatment involving not only drainage and/or qi regulation,

but supplementation of the weak viscera and bowels. Weight loss from

an acupuncture perspective is mostly qi regulation and drainage,

therefore will be temporary if the qi transformation is not rectified.

Therefore, even if acupuncture is not used, (sometimes I'll just see

someone once a month for acupuncture in long term cases), herbs, diet

and exercise have to be used continuously, along with some lifestyle

(behavioral) modification.

Obesity patients also usually have other problems, such as blood

sugar issues, circulation, constipation and/or diarrhea, fatigue, back

pain, etc. that also need to be addressed.

One doesn't necessarily need a full year or weekly treatments to

cure obesity, it will depend on the case and its complexity. However,

it is decidedly not a 'quick-fix' issue.

On Apr 22, 2004, at 11:29 AM, wrote:

>

> However, Z'ev wrote that one can get better results in obese

> patients if one ignores Cookbook AP and treats weekly for 1 year

> according to the Pattern Differentiation at each visit. He wrote:

>

> > The basic approach I learned from Michael Broffman some 20 years

> > ago involved treating obese patients once a week over a 12-month

> > period, working with seasonal changes, behavior, diet and exercise,

> > to return a person to their normal metabolic function, and

> > therefore normal weight, rather than specific points to lose

> > weight. The approach involves ongoing pattern differentiation as

> > the basis of Tx, with no cookbook points (or cookbook herb

> > formulas). Zhu Dan-xi talks about this in his " Extra Treatises

> > Based on Investigation and Inquiry " (Blue Poppy Press). He says

> > that to try to use draining/reducing methods to lose weight doesn't

> > address the usual SP-ST Xu of these patients, and will actually

> > damage SP in the long term. This supports your contention that

> > acupuncture scripts of this type don't really work for long-term

> > weight loss.

>

> IMO, Irish people will NOT return every week for 1 year for ANY

> treatment by AP. My rule of thumb, to which I adhere in most

> cases, is to quit AP if there is no clear improvement after 2-4

> sessions.

>

April 23, 2004

Hi Zev and Phil,

With regards to weight lost in China, I believe that other issues of weight

lost, diet, exercise and lifestyle are not widely used in China as yet.

Exercise is a new phenomenon in China with many gyms recently opening up.

Diet and nutrition may still take a years to come. Therefore, many see

acupuncture as just one possibility in trying to lose weight. I see a few

weight lost patient's actually weighing themselves as soon as they get off

the table, like the weight just evaporated while they were lying there.

Also as China runs to the west, many people are trying to fit their life's

and their skills including acupuncture and internal medicine into a western

framework. Of course this goes against the whole idea of syndrome

differentiation, but to the doctors who practice this standardised form, it

often works and so they carry on. We therefore need to look at why its

working. Is it just a one-off phenomenon? Are other factors are work that

are influencing outcomes? Or can TCM be used both on a syndrome

differentiation basis aswell as a symptomatic one, as a doctor told me

yesterday it now is?

Kind regards

Attilio

Chinese Traditional Medicine

[zrosenbe]

22 April 2004 20:14

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Why some lose wieght and some do not