Points for Weight loss & Cookbook AP v AP based on Pattern Differentiation

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio & All,

 

Re Attilio's point list [CV12, CV10, CV06, CV04, SP15, ST24,

ST26] for weight loss, I wrote:

> Is this formula used to regain lost weight, or to lose weight in

> obesity?

 

Attilio replied:

> These points are used to lose weight for those that feel they are

> overweight. One or two didn't look overweight at all, but others

> clearly where. After needle insertion for c. 25 mins, the

> slendertone (a large TENS machine) is attached to patient's

> abdomens, again for about 20 mins.

 

Many thanks, Attilio. I had misread those points as being used to

help underweight people to GAIN weight.

 

Leaving aside medical problems (like hypothyroidism and

psychiatric bulimia) and psychological problems (comfort-binge

eating), most obesity is self-inflicted. IMO, common causes are

lack of adequate physical exercise, over-eating, eating junk foods /

high-energy foods, drinking too much beer, etc.

 

Even if it is used with counselling on nutrition, exercise and

behaviour modification, use of AP to help obese people to lose

weight gives poor LONGTERM results in my experience. There

often is very significant weight loss over the first 3-6 weeks.

Thereafter, most people return to their previous bad habits and their

weight climbs to its original level again within a few months.

 

Some Irish men drink 4-10+ pints of 4% alcohol beer or Guinness

daily (88-220ml/d of 100% alcohol equivalent). I heard recently of

one man (grossly obese) who drinks 17 pints (9.3 litres!) of

beer/day. I wonder about the state of his liver!

 

Asking a beer-bellied daily drinker to quit, or to go to the pub but

drink water instead, has less probability of success than asking an

engaged couple who share the same bed to remain celibate until

after their marriage.

 

> ... of course this is a COOKBOOK approach. Coming from China, it is

> a bit shocking, but this may just be an isolated example. A few TCM

> practitioners have a western medical stance in their Dx and Tx as I

> stated before whilst in the neurology dept. Tx for facial paralysis

> and pain however, from another doctor there, is based upon the

> patient's individual needs at the time of Tx. Points are generally

> the same, but do differ depending on the patient's syndrome

> differentiation, constitution, etc.

 

IMO, Cookbook AP is FAR more common in China, Taiwan and

other oriental countries than many western acupuncturists realise.

 

I spent several days in busy AP clinics in Taiwan more than 20

years ago. I saw little or no Pulse Dx, and most Tx was Cookbook

(Symptomatic, with no attempt to make TCM Pattern Differential

Dx). Great stress was put on AhShi Pts, Local Pts and Distant

Pts.

 

My report was published in a Taiwanese Medical AP Journal at the

time. A digital version of that report is on the Web Journal of Acup

at: http://users.med.auth.gr/~karanik/english/vet/taiwan1.htm and

linked files.

 

IMO, we need largescale controlled trials to compare

" Standardised (Cookbook) AP " with AP based on expert

Differentiation of specific TCM Patterns.

 

I would like to think that the traditional method would give better

results. My instinct says so in complex cases, but experience

says that Cookbook AP gives very good results in many cases,

esp those with only 1-2 affected areas or Sxs.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

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[Guest guest]

The basic approach I learned from Michael Broffman some 20

years ago involved treating obese patients over a twelve month period

once a week, working with seasonal changes, behavior, diet and

exercise, to return a person to their normal metabolic function, and

therefore normal weight, rather than specific points to lose weight.

The approach involves ongoing pattern differentiation as the basis of

treatment, no cookbook points (or cookbook herb formulas).

 

Zhu Dan-xi talks about this in his " Extra Treatises Based on

Investigation and Inquiry " (Blue Poppy Press). He says that to try to

use draining/reducing methods to lose weight doesn't address the usual

spleen/stomach vacuity of these patients, and will actually cause

damage to the spleen in the long term.

 

This supports your contention that acupuncture scripts of this type

don't really work for long-term weight loss.

 

 

On Apr 21, 2004, at 5:16 PM, wrote:

 

>

> Even if it is used with counselling on nutrition, exercise and

> behaviour modification, use of AP to help obese people to lose

> weight gives poor LONGTERM results in my experience. There

> often is very significant weight loss over the first 3-6 weeks.

> Thereafter, most people return to their previous bad habits and their

> weight climbs to its original level again within a few months.

>