A good doctor does not need patients to adopt spiritual beliefs to...

[Guest guest]

Hi Atillo,

 

Although I agree that the experience of spirit is something that must be

sought, the knowledge of spirit can be given.

This knowledge of spirit, or what it takes to acknowledge spirit as a

fundamental truth in life, is different for each of us.

There are a few scientifically documented " truths " that has helped me to

confirm on a physical level the power of intention and theory that " God " works

through us.

For example, as it turns out, matter is created and distroyed.

.. There are very small particles called quarks that appear out of thin air

and decay. Interestingly, people effect the creation of quarks with intention.

In other words, people effect the creation of matter. Pretty important point

to consider.

In scientific circles, it is generally accepted that in experiments that

involve fine moving particles, the introduction of humans as a variable,

effects the outcome. People effect matter by their presents.

In experiment after experiment, the power of Prayer on test subjects is

shown to be positive. Doesn't matter how far the subjects are away from the

people praying.

In my world, and what is documented by science, is that people are

creative beings and we affect matter at a core creational level. For this

reason,

for this reason, it is my opinion, that there is no separation of spirit and

healing.

As far as TCM history and interpretation of documents,,,,,I cannot speak.

Others are clearly far, far more experienced in the tests than I.

However, I can say that these books were written a long time ago. We can

take the books as the exact description of the entire belief of the writer,

or we can wonder, as I do, if there were aspects of healing that were

intentionally left out due to potential political influence or to make the craft

more

accessible to the masses or for other reasons that we do not know about. I am

not saying this has happened, just that the possibility exists.

As an example, (I am going to reference a religion here so if you don't

want to read this,,,,, stop here) there was a guy who walked and talked 2,000

years ago. Many people wrote stories about him. A few hundred years later, a

group of men got together, decided to write a book as the basis of their

religious teachings. They took the stories written about the man and what he

said

and did, decided which stories to use in the new religious text. They left

some stories out, and edited the others to have a book that describes what they

thought was important to learn about how to live a religious life. Then 553

years after the man died and a couple hundred years after the original text

book was put together, another group of men got together, revised the work, took

a bunch of stuff out and reordained the book as the " truth " .

Millions of people revere that book, as the absolute word of God and

believe it represents exactly the word of GOD. Verbatim. No chance of omitted

wisdom or that the book is open for interpretation. How do we know for sure

what the intention of the authors were who wrote the original TCM texts? Who

influenced the kind of information that was included within the texts???

In TCM, there were and are still " fringe " therapists. Is it possible

that the texts were written to get the main, easy to understand and easy to use

aspects of TCM out to the public in a way that the authors or the powers at the

time thought would be best received by the masses????? Is it possible that

the healing influence of the mere presents of an enlightened physician was not

included because it might alienate some people who might other wise use TCM

as a way of helping fellow Chinese?

I do not have those answers, but for me, given the spiritual nature of

humans in general, I find it difficult to believe the masters who wrote the

original texts, were not aware of this, nor that they did not use the power of

intention, which is spiritual in nature, in their private practice.

IMHO,

 

Chris

 

 

 

In a message dated 4/21/2004 2:48:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

attiliodalberto writes:

Hi Phil,

 

I really don't understand why you bother to convince others of spirit in

medicine. The idea of spirit in medicine (and everything else) is something

that can only be sought and not given. It comes from self realisation

through experience and thought. Of course we're all given pretty much the

same experiences, its our interpretation of what the experiences mean that's

important. It's very similar to understanding the TCM classics. Even though

they are in written form, it is the understanding and more importantly the

realisation through practical experience that makes it more powerful to a

practitioner.

 

Kind regards

 

Attilio

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris,

 

Yes, I've heard of the theories you speak of, 'thought creates form'. You

can on from this and say people create their own illness, life, death and so

on. Yes, I agree with the idea of various teachings including those

religious, being written by others, the followers, who misleadingly think

they can write the truth. Remember it was the followers that wrote the books

not the ones they were following. The truth simply cannot be written.

Therefore the followers try and write the guidance within the text to guide

you to the truth, but you should never take the written word for what it is,

on its shear written form. It's what's not written or rather what's hidden

between the words, I.e. the readers own 'enlightened' theory or

interpretation of the words that is the important thing here. Therefore the

truth, or rather, the different levels of 'truth' cannot be written. Of

course everyone has a different interpretation of the written words. This is

based upon mental structural belief systems which limit our scope in

variable degrees, some more or less in each individual. (This is not a

statement of better or worse in terms of limitations amongst individuals).

IMO, spirit is contained in EVERYTHING. To understand spirit you must go and

find it, its waiting for you, but you cannot give it. You can guide people

that want to find it to it but not force it upon them. It's like the time

old tradition of TCM or martial arts. You must show your willingness or

intent to learn before they will teach you. In real terms this means

standing around for hours or days waiting until the doctor finally decides

ok, you want to learn and have shown a degree of respect what what they are

about to teach you. I'm sure all of us have experienced this at some time.

 

Kind regards

 

Attilio

 

<Chinese Traditional Medicine>

Chinese Traditional Medicine

 

 

Musiclear [Musiclear]

21 April 2004 15:18

Chinese Medicine

Re: A good doctor does not need patients to adopt spiritual

beliefs to...

 

 

Hi Atillo,

 

Although I agree that the experience of spirit is something that must be

 

sought, the knowledge of spirit can be given.

This knowledge of spirit, or what it takes to acknowledge spirit as a

fundamental truth in life, is different for each of us.

There are a few scientifically documented " truths " that has helped me to

 

confirm on a physical level the power of intention and theory that " God "

works

through us.

For example, as it turns out, matter is created and distroyed.

.. There are very small particles called quarks that appear out of thin air

and decay. Interestingly, people effect the creation of quarks with

intention.

In other words, people effect the creation of matter. Pretty important point

 

to consider.

In scientific circles, it is generally accepted that in experiments that

involve fine moving particles, the introduction of humans as a variable,

effects the outcome. People effect matter by their presents.

In experiment after experiment, the power of Prayer on test subjects is

shown to be positive. Doesn't matter how far the subjects are away from the

 

people praying.

In my world, and what is documented by science, is that people are

creative beings and we affect matter at a core creational level. For this

reason,

for this reason, it is my opinion, that there is no separation of spirit and

 

healing.

As far as TCM history and interpretation of documents,,,,,I cannot

speak.

Others are clearly far, far more experienced in the tests than I.

However, I can say that these books were written a long time ago. We

can

take the books as the exact description of the entire belief of the writer,

or we can wonder, as I do, if there were aspects of healing that were

intentionally left out due to potential political influence or to make the

craft more

accessible to the masses or for other reasons that we do not know about. I

am

not saying this has happened, just that the possibility exists.

As an example, (I am going to reference a religion here so if you don't

want to read this,,,,, stop here) there was a guy who walked and talked

2,000

years ago. Many people wrote stories about him. A few hundred years later,

a

group of men got together, decided to write a book as the basis of their

religious teachings. They took the stories written about the man and what

he said

and did, decided which stories to use in the new religious text. They left

some stories out, and edited the others to have a book that describes what

they

thought was important to learn about how to live a religious life. Then 553

 

years after the man died and a couple hundred years after the original text

book was put together, another group of men got together, revised the work,

took

a bunch of stuff out and reordained the book as the " truth " .

Millions of people revere that book, as the absolute word of God and

believe it represents exactly the word of GOD. Verbatim. No chance of

omitted

wisdom or that the book is open for interpretation. How do we know for sure

 

what the intention of the authors were who wrote the original TCM texts?

Who

influenced the kind of information that was included within the texts???

In TCM, there were and are still " fringe " therapists. Is it possible

that the texts were written to get the main, easy to understand and easy to

use

aspects of TCM out to the public in a way that the authors or the powers at

the

time thought would be best received by the masses????? Is it possible that

 

the healing influence of the mere presents of an enlightened physician was

not

included because it might alienate some people who might other wise use TCM

as a way of helping fellow Chinese?

I do not have those answers, but for me, given the spiritual nature of

humans in general, I find it difficult to believe the masters who wrote the

original texts, were not aware of this, nor that they did not use the power

of

intention, which is spiritual in nature, in their private practice.

IMHO,

 

Chris

 

 

 

In a message dated 4/21/2004 2:48:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

attiliodalberto writes:

Hi Phil,

 

I really don't understand why you bother to convince others of spirit in

medicine. The idea of spirit in medicine (and everything else) is something

that can only be sought and not given. It comes from self realisation

through experience and thought. Of course we're all given pretty much the

same experiences, its our interpretation of what the experiences mean that's

important. It's very similar to understanding the TCM classics. Even though

they are in written form, it is the understanding and more importantly the

realisation through practical experience that makes it more powerful to a

practitioner.

 

Kind regards

 

Attilio