Impossible back pain I

[Guest guest]

Back pain Impossible

 

Pete said:

I have a patient returning on Wednesday who suffers from excruciating

back pain.

MRI shows many protruding disks, protruding in the anterior

direction, very deep pain.

 

Which vertebrae are affected?

 

You said the pain is excruciating

The pain is worst when he stands up - probably because his huge belly

weight compresses the protruding disks and puts more pressure on the

nerves, so he sits or lies down almost all the time, belly supported

by his thighs or by the bed.

Sharp stabbing pain usually in a fixed location. Slow or no movement.

Yes.

(deficient cold, usually spleen)

Tremors or convulsions. Yes.

 

Is this only in the back or is this type of pain in other places as

well?

What are the other qualities of the pain?

 

What makes the pain better or worse besides standing? Bending

forward, leaning backward, on rising, daytime, nighttime, coughing,

exertion, jarring motions, traction, stormy weather or high humidity

or anything else?

 

Is it better or worse with heat, cold, pressure, no pressure,

massage, twisting, turning? Any sciatic or extending pain?

 

Why is he slow moving? Pain, weight, worse movement, slow to react?

 

Pete said: Crying. Yes. (related to metal, lung deficiency)

Why does he cry? From Pain, music, sentiment, arrogance, not getting

his way, something else?

 

If from pain does the pain seem to be out of character for the type

illness? If so a 30C Chamomile 3x a day for a couple of days may take

care of the pain and over sensitiveness to his condition. If you

don't desire to do homeopathy then tell him to drink 2-3 cups of

chamomile tea daily when he hurts and feels stressed.

 

Itchy skin where? Is there a rash? If so does it have an exudate and

if so what color, consistency and appearance does it have? (wind)

 

Pete said: He is very obese above the waist and he *will not* lose

any weight.

He loves to eat sugar, cookies, ice cream, cake . . . addicted to the

stuff.

 

Addictions are hard to break. Could he also have an allergy to sugar

and other food allergies? Sometimes taking offending foods out will

help the back and the weight.

As you know intention is everything.

 

You Px is resistant to losing weight and as long as there is a

secondary gain or reason for why he is holding the weight it will not

come off. Doing some questioning as to when and why and where he

gained weight would be appropriate.

 

I wonder if it is your intention for him to lose weight anyway. He

can consciously or subconsciously (depending on what you have told

him) pick up on this and resist your treatments on an energetic level.

 

It is important to create a safe environment for him to be thin or

more emotional damage may be incurred. After you earn his trust and

he is not in pain you can gently approach the subject again and he

might be willing to listen.

 

Pete said: How about some TCM pain pills? I have Tien Tzat and China

Tung Hsueh in stock and I have not tried these with him yet, any

others? I tried to tonify him with Liu Wei Di Huang Wan but he didn't

take all of them because they weren't a magic bullet on the pain.

 

Those might be effective so might:

 

Qi Ye Lian Pian analgesic pills Promotes blood circulation, expels

wind, and alleviates pain. Applications: Low back pain, joint pain,

trauma, headache.

Since he has some wind and dampness going on

Feng Shi Xiao Tong Pian

Expelling wind and clearing away cold, promoting blood circulation to

stop pain.

It is used for arthralgia due to wind-cold-dampness, Limited movement

of the muscles, numbness of limbs, pain in waist and lower

extemities, injuries from falls, fractures, contusions and strains,

and pain due to blood stasis.

 

And many others although it seems he might be non compliant and why

get frustrated.

 

Pete said: He is diabetic, has peripheral neuropathy, has had cancer

surgery, disc surgery, surgery to repair an aortic aneurysm and has

another aortic aneurysm which he is too weak to have repaired.

 

Cancer of what and how was it treated and the results of treatment?

How compromised is his immune system?

Does he have metal rods or bone from his hip to stabilize the spine?

 

In homeopathic terms these conditions are considered to be Sycotic

(excess) and Syphillitic (destructive) Miasms.

 

How much water is he drinking. Water and not tea and coffee can

really benefit keeping the discs moistened and even help them repair

themselves if possible.

 

 

Pete said Starting points: Sp 6; St 36; LI 4, 11; Lu 7. Back shu &

front mu of various organs, as convenient.

 

Convenient to what?

 

You did not tell us what part of the back hurts. I am assuming it is

low back since the belly makes it worse on standing. If he has neck

or thoracic problems

I will give a different set of points later.

 

Try these points with only the intention of pain relief not weight

loss and let us know how it goes.

 

If it is for low back pain: Patterns: For cold use a ginger moxa box

if excess bleed the apex of the ear 5-6 drops of blood.

Retain the needles 20-30 minutes.

 

Local:

Bl 23, 25, In an earlier post Majid said: While Bladder 23 and 25 may

be needled perpendicularly, clinical experience has shown that an

oblique insertion toward the spine is clinically effective to change

the position of the prolapse and the neural roots

 

+ BL 51, 52, or 53 in line with where his pain and protrusions are

since there are no ashi pts.

 

Gv 3 or 4, X_25 Shi Qi Zhui (Josen) Below GV line, in lumbosacral (L5-

S1) space

 

Distal Points as needed

GB 30, 31, 34, 39, BL 37, 40, 57, 60, 62, SP 3, GV 26

 

Wind

GB 20 and or BL 10 (BL 10 with BL 60 can help invigorate the whole BL

channel)

 

Extra Pts

Yao Tong Xue The extra On the dorsum of the hand, midway between the

transverse wrist crease and metacarpophalangeal joint, between the

second and third metacarpal bones, and between the fourth and fifth

metacarpal bones, 4 points in all on both hands. Very little

manipulation for back pain. I often use these points separately from

the above tx time and have them walk and slowly do deep knee

bends if possible (while holding on to a walker or doorway.) They are

normally astonished that they can do them.

 

Shi Qi Zhui (Josen) Below the spinous process of the 5th lumbar

vertebrae Lumbar & thigh pain, paralysis of lower extremities

 

No spirit; consider (Liv 14 Qimen front Mu Liver Gateway of hope) as

part of a treatment

for an entry/exit

 

Several ear points May be effective: Back region affected, Spleen,

St, Zero Pt Sympathetic, shenmen

 

Another good E stim combo is Left SI 3 Red connected to Rt BL 62

Black + Left Kd 3 Black connected to LU 7 Red

+ GV 3, 4, 26, BL 60, BL 40, BL 10, GB 39.

 

Magnets 30 min to one hour.:

I sometimes use a South pole 1500 gauss magnet under the painful area

and down the path of the pain.

Sometimes the body or ear seed magnets can give relief when not in

the office.

 

Patients with low Back Pain may aggravate if they are kept on magnets

for a long time or they stand up immediately after tx. Let them rest

for about 5 minutes or more without the needles or magnets.

 

Epsom Salt Baths

Epsom salt is primarily magnesium sulfate. The heat of an Epsom salt

bath can increase circulation and reduce the swelling of arthritis,

and the magnesium can be absorbed through the skin. Magnesium has

both anti-inflammatory and anti-arthritic properties.

Directions: Fill a bathtub with water as hot as can be tolerated. Add

2 cups of Epsom salts. Bathe for thirty minutes, adding hot water if

necessary to keep the

bath water warm.

 

Rosemary

Drinking rosemary tea for pain. Its leaf also contains four anti-

inflammatory substances---camosol, oleanolic acid, rosmarinic acid,

and ursolic acid. Carnosol acts on the same anti-inflammatory

pathways as both steroids and aspirin; rosmarinic acid acts through

at least two separate anti-inflammatory biochemical pathways; and

ursolic acid, which makes up about 4 percent of the plant by weight,

has been shown in animal trials to have anti-arthritic

effects.

Directions: Put 1/2 ounce of rosemary leaves in a 1-quart canning jar

and fill the jar with boiling water. Cover tightly and let it stand

for thirty minutes.

Drink a cup as hot as possible before going to bed, and have another

cupful in the morning before breakfast.

 

I wish you and your px well,

Sunny

[Guest guest]

Hi Sunny!

 

Wow! Thanks for all this material. I will study this, question him on it,

and get back.

 

At 09:09 PM 4/20/2004, you wrote:

>Back pain Impossible

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi Sunny!

 

I am looking at a set of this patient's MRI pictures. From these it appears

to me that at least four disks are causing pain. L4 - L5 disk is protruding

in the anterior direction about 3/4 inch. The L2 - L3 disk is also

protruding in the anterior direction, however, this pair is *supposed* to

be fused and the protrusion is being forced into and through the fusion. L3

- L4 is pressing on the spinal cord as is L1 - L2. The Lordosis is maybe

three times normal. Of course, with this combination of Lordosis and

collapsed disks the foramina diameter for the exiting nerves is minimized.

I do not see any metal in the pictures. I don't know where the bone for the

fusion came from.

 

He may have some other pain, but he is most bothered by the back pain. It

is relieved by sitting or lying down. He is comfortable in the swimming

pool also. He is slow moving because of the pain. I think the crying is

over not just the pain, but the way it limits him. He is always reminiscing

how he used to enjoy tennis, cycling and other things of a physical nature

that he can't do anymore.

 

His former active lifestyle is how he balanced his tremendous food intake

and his dietary preference for huge amounts of sugar. After the cancer

(intestinal cancer, skin cancer) and aorta surgeries which began 5 years

ago he couldn't move for a long time and he began to pack on the weight.

 

The itchy skin is related to diabetic dryness of the skin. He doesn't

bother with skin lotion, perhaps because it hurts to move enough to put it on.

 

He eats every meal in a restaurant. He can't prepare food himself at home

and his wife won't - she is " retired " at age 73. She instead drives him to

the restaurant where they eat together. The restaurants have all the wrong

stuff just waiting for them, and way too much of it in every serving at

that. She also is quite overweight, so I conclude that the eating wrong

food and eating too much of it is part and parcel of their social bond, and

has been for the last ten years. This is very common in the US. I think it

is impossible to " eat thin " in a US restaurant, unless you are naturally

thin to begin with. I doubt that he is allergic to sugar or any other food.

These things do not make him sneeze, break out or have any digestive upset,

they just make him fat.

 

Convenient points are those that can be reached with the patient in a

bearable position. For example, this patient can only lie down on his back

for treatment. The belly is much too big to lie on the front or side. He

also has a lot of thick hard brown scab-like lesions all over his skin that

the dermatologist has pronounced benign. Benign or not, the points under

these are unavailable. Even if I thought it appropriate to needle through

these, I don't think the needle would penetrate them.

 

At 09:09 PM 4/20/2004, you wrote:<snip>

>Which vertebrae are affected? You said the pain is excruciating<snip>

>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi, Pete

 

I had somewhat similar patient, though not as bad.

With advanced Qi Def (night shifts & stressful job)

Sharp pain At L3-L4 level when bent forward. NO

on-pressure-Ashi points. None of standard points

helped. I suspected forward part of a Disk pinched

Asked to take X-ray I was the right. He did not come

back.

 

My question is regarding relationship between NO ashi

point and NO effect from needling.

 

Peter

 

 

--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote:

 

Hi Sunny!

 

I am looking at a set of this patient's MRI pictures.

From these it appears

to me that at least four disks are causing pain. L4 -

L5 disk is protruding

in the anterior direction about 3/4 inch. The L2 - L3

disk is also

protruding in the anterior direction, however, this

pair is *supposed* to

be fused and the protrusion is being forced into and

through the fusion. L3

- L4 is pressing on the spinal cord as is L1 - L2. The

Lordosis is maybe

three times normal. Of course, with this combination

of Lordosis and

collapsed disks the foramina diameter for the exiting

nerves is minimized.

I do not see any metal in the pictures. I don't know

where the bone for the

fusion came from.

 

He may have some other pain, but he is most bothered

by the back pain. It

is relieved by sitting or lying down. He is

comfortable in the swimming

pool also. He is slow moving because of the pain. I

think the crying is

over not just the pain, but the way it limits him. He

is always reminiscing

how he used to enjoy tennis, cycling and other things

of a physical nature

that he can't do anymore.

 

His former active lifestyle is how he balanced his

tremendous food intake

and his dietary preference for huge amounts of sugar.

After the cancer

(intestinal cancer, skin cancer) and aorta surgeries

which began 5 years

ago he couldn't move for a long time and he began to

pack on the weight.

 

The itchy skin is related to diabetic dryness of the

skin. He doesn't

bother with skin lotion, perhaps because it hurts to

move enough to put it on.

 

He eats every meal in a restaurant. He can't prepare

food himself at home

and his wife won't - she is " retired " at age 73. She

instead drives him to

the restaurant where they eat together. The

restaurants have all the wrong

stuff just waiting for them, and way too much of it in

every serving at

that. She also is quite overweight, so I conclude that

the eating wrong

food and eating too much of it is part and parcel of

their social bond, and

has been for the last ten years. This is very common

in the US. I think it

is impossible to " eat thin " in a US restaurant, unless

you are naturally

thin to begin with. I doubt that he is allergic to

sugar or any other food.

These things do not make him sneeze, break out or have

any digestive upset,

they just make him fat.

 

Convenient points are those that can be reached with

the patient in a

bearable position. For example, this patient can only

lie down on his back

for treatment. The belly is much too big to lie on the

front or side. He

also has a lot of thick hard brown scab-like lesions

all over his skin that

the dermatologist has pronounced benign. Benign or

not, the points under

these are unavailable. Even if I thought it

appropriate to needle through

these, I don't think the needle would penetrate them.

 

At 09:09 PM 4/20/2004, you wrote:<snip>

>Which vertebrae are affected? You said the pain is

excruciating<snip>

>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

 

 

 

 

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