Puzzling contradiction-- Could someone shed some light on this.

[Guest guest]

Patient: 60yr old female, retired interior designer.

 

Presenting condition: Digestive problems (long-term but worse than ever in last

3 months) and a general feeling of being unwell for last 3 months (@like

metabolism has slowed down and liver is not detoxing properly' her own words)

 

Signs & Symptoms:

Daily urge to move bowels but actually doing it is a struggle (straining,

painful, dry and sore).

Stool= dark and floating and full of air

Severe bloating after eating even small meals

Tight, painful cramping under ribs

Offensive flatulence, belching, burping and hiccuping.

 

Difficulty losing weight (despite regular gym-going)

Feels slow and sluggish and low (mood-wise)

Hard to get up in morning

Very cold

Constant exhaustion

Slight thirst during day and on waking

Low back pain due to worn discs since mid 30s

 

Everything else is normal (i.e. sleep great, no headaches, no palps)

 

T: Swollen and pale with toothmarks, thin pale yellow coat over entire tongue

body.

P: I'm not the best with pulses but it was extremely deep and weak on both

sides, and I think I also detected a floating quality in Lung position (i.e

Right cun). On the Heart position (i.e. Left Cun) it was quite superficial and a

bit slippery.

 

Relevant medical history:

After late miscarriage with large loss of blood (6 mths pregnant) at age 34 she

was quite ill. She experienced (sometimes very heavy and clotted) vaginal

bleeding for 25/28 days of her cycle, accompanied by pain. She was diagnosed

with endometriosis and underwent a hysterectomy at age 44 which solved all

problems. She has been on HRT with no apparent side-effects ever since.

 

I feel like her general constitution is clearly saying Yang xu, but the

constipation is a bit of a contradiction and seems quite Livery in nature. Any

enlightenments from someone cleverer than me? I used moxa on her and she loved

it. Points were SJ6, ST25, ST36, KID3, REN12, SP6 and LIV3.

 

Oh also, just under a year ago she went to Egypt and got really really bad food

poisoning which lasted over 3 months and took her ages to recover from. I feel

like this may be connected and may explain the contradiction, although the

digestive probs did exist before this.

 

And another thing! She had a pulse and tongue diagnosis from a Chinese doctor in

London who correctly guessed all her symptoms without being prompted and told

her it was a 'Kidney and Liver' problem. Why do I look now?

 

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Have you checked for parasites? All your tonfication won't do a thing if they

are still there.

 

Maybe run a parasite test- via stool analysis. She could have easily gotten them

in Egypt.

 

Happy Hunting

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " andycolombini " <andycolombini

wrote:

>

> Patient: 60yr old female, retired interior designer.

>

> Presenting condition: Digestive problems (long-term but worse than ever in

last 3 months) and a general feeling of being unwell for last 3 months (@like

metabolism has slowed down and liver is not detoxing properly' her own words)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your suggestions, wouldn't parasites be accompanied by diarrhoea and

weight loss, in this case we have constipation and prone to weight gain.

Thanks again anyway.

P.S. I Agree Spleen qi xu is there amongst other syndromes

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Mercurius Trismegistus <magisterium_magnum

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Fri, 2 April, 2010 21:27:54

Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Puzzling contradiction-- Could someone shed some

light on this.

 

 

Sounds like spleen qi xu to me.

 

-

" andycolombini " <andycolombini@ .co. uk>

<Chinese Traditional Medicine>

Friday, April 02, 2010 9:16 AM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Puzzling contradiction- - Could someone shed some

light on this.

 

> Patient: 60yr old female, retired interior designer.

>

> Presenting condition: Digestive problems (long-term but worse than ever in

> last 3 months) and a general feeling of being unwell for last 3 months

> (@like metabolism has slowed down and liver is not detoxing properly' her

> own words)

>

> Signs & Symptoms:

> Daily urge to move bowels but actually doing it is a struggle (straining,

> painful, dry and sore).

> Stool= dark and floating and full of air

> Severe bloating after eating even small meals

> Tight, painful cramping under ribs

> Offensive flatulence, belching, burping and hiccuping.

>

> Difficulty losing weight (despite regular gym-going)

> Feels slow and sluggish and low (mood-wise)

> Hard to get up in morning

> Very cold

> Constant exhaustion

> Slight thirst during day and on waking

> Low back pain due to worn discs since mid 30s

>

> Everything else is normal (i.e. sleep great, no headaches, no palps)

>

> T: Swollen and pale with toothmarks, thin pale yellow coat over entire

> tongue body.

> P: I'm not the best with pulses but it was extremely deep and weak on both

> sides, and I think I also detected a floating quality in Lung position

> (i.e Right cun). On the Heart position (i.e. Left Cun) it was quite

> superficial and a bit slippery.

>

> Relevant medical history:

> After late miscarriage with large loss of blood (6 mths pregnant) at age

> 34 she was quite ill. She experienced (sometimes very heavy and clotted)

> vaginal bleeding for 25/28 days of her cycle, accompanied by pain. She was

> diagnosed with endometriosis and underwent a hysterectomy at age 44 which

> solved all problems. She has been on HRT with no apparent side-effects

> ever since.

>

> I feel like her general constitution is clearly saying Yang xu, but the

> constipation is a bit of a contradiction and seems quite Livery in nature.

> Any enlightenments from someone cleverer than me? I used moxa on her and

> she loved it. Points were SJ6, ST25, ST36, KID3, REN12, SP6 and LIV3.

>

> Oh also, just under a year ago she went to Egypt and got really really bad

> food poisoning which lasted over 3 months and took her ages to recover

> from. I feel like this may be connected and may explain the contradiction,

> although the digestive probs did exist before this.

>

> And another thing! She had a pulse and tongue diagnosis from a Chinese

> doctor in London who correctly guessed all her symptoms without being

> prompted and told her it was a 'Kidney and Liver' problem. Why do I look

> now?

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> Post message address: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> http://health. groups.. com Chinese Traditional Medicine/

[Guest guest]

Sounds like spleen qi xu to me.

 

 

 

 

 

-

" andycolombini " <andycolombini

<Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Friday, April 02, 2010 9:16 AM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Puzzling contradiction-- Could someone shed some

light on this.

 

 

> Patient: 60yr old female, retired interior designer.

>

> Presenting condition: Digestive problems (long-term but worse than ever in

> last 3 months) and a general feeling of being unwell for last 3 months

> (@like metabolism has slowed down and liver is not detoxing properly' her

> own words)

>

> Signs & Symptoms:

> Daily urge to move bowels but actually doing it is a struggle (straining,

> painful, dry and sore).

> Stool= dark and floating and full of air

> Severe bloating after eating even small meals

> Tight, painful cramping under ribs

> Offensive flatulence, belching, burping and hiccuping.

>

> Difficulty losing weight (despite regular gym-going)

> Feels slow and sluggish and low (mood-wise)

> Hard to get up in morning

> Very cold

> Constant exhaustion

> Slight thirst during day and on waking

> Low back pain due to worn discs since mid 30s

>

> Everything else is normal (i.e. sleep great, no headaches, no palps)

>

> T: Swollen and pale with toothmarks, thin pale yellow coat over entire

> tongue body.

> P: I'm not the best with pulses but it was extremely deep and weak on both

> sides, and I think I also detected a floating quality in Lung position

> (i.e Right cun). On the Heart position (i.e. Left Cun) it was quite

> superficial and a bit slippery.

>

> Relevant medical history:

> After late miscarriage with large loss of blood (6 mths pregnant) at age

> 34 she was quite ill. She experienced (sometimes very heavy and clotted)

> vaginal bleeding for 25/28 days of her cycle, accompanied by pain. She was

> diagnosed with endometriosis and underwent a hysterectomy at age 44 which

> solved all problems. She has been on HRT with no apparent side-effects

> ever since.

>

> I feel like her general constitution is clearly saying Yang xu, but the

> constipation is a bit of a contradiction and seems quite Livery in nature.

> Any enlightenments from someone cleverer than me? I used moxa on her and

> she loved it. Points were SJ6, ST25, ST36, KID3, REN12, SP6 and LIV3.

>

> Oh also, just under a year ago she went to Egypt and got really really bad

> food poisoning which lasted over 3 months and took her ages to recover

> from. I feel like this may be connected and may explain the contradiction,

> although the digestive probs did exist before this.

>

> And another thing! She had a pulse and tongue diagnosis from a Chinese

> doctor in London who correctly guessed all her symptoms without being

> prompted and told her it was a 'Kidney and Liver' problem. Why do I look

> now?

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

> ---

>

> Post message address: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> http://health.Chinese Traditional Medicine/

[Guest guest]

Been a busy day for me, both of my websites crashed due to database

problems. But you know who backs up stuff religiously? I do! Problems

solved.

 

Hope my thoughts can help you out...

 

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 9:16 AM, andycolombini <andycolombiniwrote:

 

>

>

> Patient: 60yr old female, retired interior designer.

>

> Presenting condition: Digestive problems (long-term but worse than ever in

> last 3 months) and a general feeling of being unwell for last 3 months

> (@like metabolism has slowed down and liver is not detoxing properly' her

> own words)

>

> Signs & Symptoms:

> Daily urge to move bowels but actually doing it is a struggle (straining,

> painful, dry and sore).

>

Dry speaks of a yin of blood deficiency, but I don't always rely on that,

especially with the other signs and symptoms.

 

> Stool= dark and floating and full of air

> Severe bloating after eating even small meals

> Tight, painful cramping under ribs

> Offensive flatulence, belching, burping and hiccuping.

>

The differentiation that I like to use is when there is a strong odor with

the flatulence and burping, that's food stagnation (causing heat, which

smells bad). If the belching and farting has very little odor, that is qi

stagnation. if it smells neither strong, nor lacking odor, that is Spleen qi

deficiency. If the flatulence smells like raw beef, that is cold-damp. Most

people can't really recognize that raw beef smell. I know the smell, but I

don't generally offer that question to people.

 

This would be a good follow-up question for your patient, about the odor

strength.

 

>

> Difficulty losing weight (despite regular gym-going)

> Feels slow and sluggish and low (mood-wise)

> Hard to get up in morning

> Very cold

> Constant exhaustion

> Slight thirst during day and on waking

> Low back pain due to worn discs since mid 30s

>

Spleen yang deficiency = Spleen qi deficiency with signs of cold.

 

>

> Everything else is normal (i.e. sleep great, no headaches, no palps)

>

> T: Swollen and pale with toothmarks, thin pale yellow coat over entire

> tongue body.

>

Swollen and pale says Kidney yang deficiency. The thin pale coating could be

nothing. Because it is thin, it is no big deal, the yellow could have been

anything from a recent cup of tea, to a cigarette...

 

> P: I'm not the best with pulses but it was extremely deep and weak on both

> sides, and I think I also detected a floating quality in Lung position (i.e

> Right cun). On the Heart position (i.e. Left Cun) it was quite superficial

> and a bit slippery.

>

Upper jiao pulses can float without indicating a problem. Lower jiao pulses

can sink for the same reason. Upper jiao = up. Lower jiao = down.

 

>

> Relevant medical history:

> After late miscarriage with large loss of blood (6 mths pregnant) at age 34

> she was quite ill. She experienced (sometimes very heavy and clotted)

> vaginal bleeding for 25/28 days of her cycle, accompanied by pain. She was

> diagnosed with endometriosis and underwent a hysterectomy at age 44 which

> solved all problems. She has been on HRT with no apparent side-effects ever

> since.

>

So, we can probably say there is a history of blood stagnation.

 

>

> I feel like her general constitution is clearly saying Yang xu, but the

> constipation is a bit of a contradiction and seems quite Livery in nature.

> Any enlightenments from someone cleverer than me? I used moxa on her and she

> loved it. Points were SJ6, ST25, ST36, KID3, REN12, SP6 and LIV3.

>

You know, there's this cause of constipation due to qi deficiency.

Diagnostically, it causes extreme fatigue after a poop. That's what I look

for. However if the patient doesn't have enough energy or muscle strength to

push out poop, she may benefit from some bai zhu (Rx. Atractylodes).

 

However, I would not expect the poop to be *hard* as a result of qi

deficiency. That usually speaks of blood or yin deficiency.

 

I don't see anything livery going on here short of the history of the blood

stagnation.

 

So, in my opinion, you can go either of two directions:

 

1. Spleen yang deficiency. Try Li Zhong Tang plus a little extra Bai Zhu.

2. Run Chang Wan which is a laxative that works by nourishing the

intestines with blood and yin.

 

I supposed you could use them together too.

 

>

> Oh also, just under a year ago she went to Egypt and got really really bad

> food poisoning which lasted over 3 months and took her ages to recover from.

> I feel like this may be connected and may explain the contradiction,

> although the digestive probs did exist before this.

>

I'm not a big fan of the diagnosis of parasites, but I do agree with

fosterryanlac that this may apply, given the recent trip. Though, I would

encourage a physician doing a fecal test and all of that before opting for

the parasite approach.

 

>

> And another thing! She had a pulse and tongue diagnosis from a Chinese

> doctor in London who correctly guessed all her symptoms without being

> prompted and told her it was a 'Kidney and Liver' problem. Why do I look

> now?

>

When people say " Kidney Liver " that usually implies yin/blood which is that

Run Chang Wan approach.

 

-al.

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

http://twitter.com/algancao

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy....had a similar situation....Just as a precaution, I recommended a

CA125 and the patient was positive for Uterine/Ovarian cancer.  Some of the

symptoms you describe were shared by this patient.

 

  

 

--- On Fri, 4/2/10, andycolombini <andycolombini wrote:

 

andycolombini <andycolombini

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Puzzling contradiction-- Could someone shed some light

on this.

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Friday, April 2, 2010, 12:16 PM