Guest guest Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 The condition of red, swollen, dry cracked lips is usually treated with lip balm, cortisone ointment, moisturizers, etc... On the other hand CM looks for patterns around Stomach/Spleen/damp heat/yin deficiency. Could it mean that there is some actual disturbance, inflammation along the gastrointestinal truct? Can there be something which is detectable with western methods like blood test, fecal test, gastroscopy? Tamas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Tamas <knz wrote: > > > The condition of red, swollen, dry cracked lips is usually treated with lip > balm, cortisone ointment, moisturizers, etc... > > On the other hand CM looks for patterns around Stomach/Spleen/damp heat/yin > deficiency. > > Could it mean that there is some actual disturbance, inflammation along the > gastrointestinal truct? Can there be something which is detectable with > western methods like blood test, fecal test, gastroscopy? > Hi Tamas, The gastroscopy is used in China to visualize inflammation in the stomach. From what I get, the redness of the tongue, throat and lips can show up in the stomach as well. So, they might call that Stomach fire. As for the other tests, I don't know. Chinese research is VERY focused on finding these one-to-one correspondences between Western diagnostic findings and TCM observations. However the reality doesn't usually pan out. For instance, some hormonal level that is high in a tall thin guy like me might present as a different TCM syndrome than the same hormonal level in a short wide person. There is some benefit in going back and forth between TCM and WM, though. My favorite story of using TCM to inform WM is the story of Huang Lian Su. Huang Lian Su is an over-the-counter remedy that you can find in the US as well as China. It is used for heartburn. It has one ingredient: huang lian (rx. coptis). In TCM we use Huang Lian as an ingredient in a formula (never used alone) for heartburn as well as a sensation of fullness just below the sternum (we'd call that the stomach of epigrastric area.) This is a sensation noted by many people with ulcers. So, Huang Lian Su turns out to be really good for heartburn. Of course, in TCM we use it for heartburn WITH indications of Stomach fire such as bad breath, bleeding gums, constipation, etc. We have other approaches for heartburn when brought on by stress or other causes. Now, according to Western medicine (before about 25 years ago) there were a finite number of causes of heartburn. Too much acid production, not enough mucus production, etc. NEVER in their wildest dreams could a bacteria ever be considered a cause for heartburn and/or ulcers. So, 25 years ago, h-Pylori bacteria are noted and the dots are connected and this bacteria is 'discovered' to be a cause for many persons' heartburn and/or ulcers. Now, antibiotics are commonly used for this kind of stomach problem. Guess what Chinese herb has antibiotic functions (after having been tested by Western methods)? Huang Lian (Rx. Coptis.) So, turning this around, Western medicine researchers could have potentially connected those dots if they had any respect for Chinese medicine which was pointing to this solution since around the year 200 when the " xie xin tang " formulas were first used (which contain huang lian for epigastric stuffiness and heartburn). While there are many in the scientific community who seek to define Chinese medical terms in Western terms such as yang=testosterone or yin=estrogen, these are simply not panning out in research. It is inaccurate, simplistic, and many times, simply wrong. On the other hand, when Chinese medical observations are translated into Western terms, it provides Western medicine novel new avenues for research such as the story of Huang Lian Su that could have led (perhaps it did) to the discovery of bacteria causing heartburn and ulcers. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. http://twitter.com/algancao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 > Chinese research is VERY focused on finding these one-to-one correspondences > between Western diagnostic findings and TCM observations. I wish they came up with some breakthrough. I believe both CM and WM address the same reality and there exist a connection between the two(probably not a one-to-one correspondence) without sacrificing important parts of CM. BTW I'm working on an interesting research: it seems that there is an interesting pattern behind the 12 zangfu organs which could allow us to grasp their functions more intuitively. If I'm right it could be benefitial for narrowing the gap between CM and science. > So, turning this around, Western medicine researchers could have potentially > connected those dots if they had any respect for Chinese medicine It's an interesting story with the huang lian. But there had already been several clues in western research that pointed towards the h.pylori, yet at the end Dr Marshall (one of the discoverers) had to " drink a beaker of h.pylory " to convince the others. Tamas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I wanted to further Al's point by something I learned recently. Some want to make a one-to-one comparison with testosterone and Jing. Turns out that might be a bit simplistic. For a little background, testosterone is insoluble in water and therefore blood. It requires a protein to bind to in order to circulate in the blood. This protein is called Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin (SHBG). So it turns out you can have two causes for low testosterone. Either not enough is being produced (which might look more like a Jing issue), or you may just not have enough SHBG so not enough testosterone can get into solution. In which case you would want to look at the reasons why there's not enough binding protein. A very western way to explain how one-to-one correspondences are even recognized as limited and simplistic even in western medicine. Chinese Traditional Medicine , Al Stone <al wrote: > Chinese research is VERY focused on finding these one-to-one correspondences > between Western diagnostic findings and TCM observations. However the > reality doesn't usually pan out. For instance, some hormonal level that is > high in a tall thin guy like me might present as a different TCM syndrome > than the same hormonal level in a short wide person. > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > http://twitter.com/algancao > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 > Some want to make a one-to-one comparison with testosterone and Jing. Turns out that might be a bit simplistic. Yes, I think the right approach would be to interpret the results of the western diagnostic methods just like the results of the Four Examinations. Low hemoglobin level, EEG anomalies are just like dry skin or weak voice: they don't correspond one-to-one to any CM pattern. Tamas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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