lymphatic insufficiency AND venous insuffiency

[Guest guest]

I have a condition which entails the 2 above issues.

 

From what I understand, my condition was likely set into motion by my thyroid

and adrenal problems. Additionally, my grandmother had thyroid problems and

possibly the same condition as me as well. So, there could be a genetic

connection, though that could be to the thyroid issue that set it all in motion.

 

I have read that my condition starts as MICROANGIOPATHY. Damage occurs to the

blood vessels. That damage causes blood vessels to leak their content into fat.

 

Biopsy of tissue of someone with my condition found:

1- dilation of subdermal blood capillaries

2- fibrosis of arterioles

3- fibrosis & dilation of venules

4- hypertrophy & hyperplasia of adiopocytes

NOTE - This biopsy was of tissue that is most definitely in a much more advanced

stage than me.

 

As a note, I am currently addressing my adrenal/thyroid issues *correctly* after

many years of not.

 

SO, what I need to do is:

1- increase my lymphatic flow

2- get rid of the venous insufficiency

 

Can acupuncture do this for me?

 

Can Chinese herbs do this for me?

 

I am currently doing both, but I think we've been on the wrong track. The focus

has been mainly thyroid since that is the original condition. While that is

good, I think that my above 2 issues need addressed.

 

P.S. - My condition is mild lipoedema, but I did not want to confuse things with

a label.

 

Thanks

Julie

[Guest guest]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:55 PM, mom114425 <stompingbaby wrote:

 

>

>

> Can acupuncture do this for me?

>

> Can Chinese herbs do this for me?

>

 

 

 

 

 

What exactly are your symptoms? Is there something that doesn't work right

or hurts that caused you to seek out help? What was it? You have quite a few

diagnosis, but I didn't see anything about your specific experiences.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My diagnoses are all self-diagnoses.

 

8 years ago, when I was pregnant with my #2, I had a +ANA. Soon after his

birth, I developed a " SWELLING FEELING " in my hands, feet, arms, and legs. I

had no pitting and never have. I have not had a +ANA for at least 5 years. The

swelling feeling is less, yet I still have it. When I open and close my hands,

I feel pressure, though my hands are thin. My feet require comfortable shoes.

My BIG problem is my legs. I am thin, yet I have fat legs - entire legs and

ankles.

 

My legs are always flushy red, especially lower legs. I have fair skin, and

there are lots of red dots on my legs. The further down, the more pronounced.

I have some varicose legs at varying areas. Nothing is too severe.

 

From my research, I probably have lipoedema. Also from my research, lipoedema

contains 2 parts: lymphatic insufficiency and venous insufficiency.

 

Whenever I have a cold, I end up with a horrible cough that won't go away. A

chiropractor told me that was lymphatic. He worked on my lymph glands - and it

went away.

 

I have read that lipoedema starts with damage to blood vessels - and this damage

causes the blood vessels to leak content into fat. Increasing lymphatic flow

should be able to clear that.

 

Thanks!

Julie

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Al Stone <al wrote:

>

> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:55 PM, mom114425 <stompingbaby wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Can acupuncture do this for me?

> >

> > Can Chinese herbs do this for me?

> What exactly are your symptoms? Is there something that doesn't work right

> or hurts that caused you to seek out help? What was it? You have quite a few

> diagnosis, but I didn't see anything about your specific experiences.

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:56 AM, mom114425 <stompingbaby wrote:

 

>

>

> My diagnoses are all self-diagnoses.

>

 

 

 

And that is why I generally ignore them. Please don't be insulted, I'm just

trying to get information that allows me to arrive at a CM diagnosis. I

usually ignore diagnosis from physicians too. They simply have no bearing on

a Chinese medicine diagnosis. Even if I were to be told by a physician that

you have +ANA, I would ask " what type " or " due to what " ?

 

The answer to that question would be " dampness " or " spleen qi deficiency " or

" Kidney yang deficiency " or whatever. So, I just start at that point and

ignore how it ends up looking to a physician or website authors.

 

 

 

> I developed a " SWELLING FEELING " in my hands, feet, arms, and legs. I had

> no pitting and never have. The swelling feeling is less, yet I still have

> it. When I open and close my hands, I feel pressure, though my hands are

> thin. My feet require comfortable shoes. My BIG problem is my legs. I am

> thin, yet I have fat legs - entire legs and ankles.

>

> My legs are always flushy red, especially lower legs. I have fair skin, and

> there are lots of red dots on my legs. The further down, the more

> pronounced. I have some varicose legs at varying areas. Nothing is too

> severe.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, this is the extent of the usable information here. Again, if you want

to talk about lymphatic or venous insufficiency, lipoedema, etc, that's

fine. I'm confident there are those on this list who can chime in with some

help for you, but I'll just stick with the CM myself.

 

Swelling feeling, especially with no observable edema smells like dampness

or qi stagnation. Dampness can congeal into edema, but at the early stages

it is more like humidity that you can feel, but not readily see.

 

As for large thighs, I'm not hearing that this is fluid, but fat. If this is

the case, Spleen qi tonics can be of some help. If nothing else, but to give

you energy so you can get some exercise.

 

Now, the redness with dots on swollen legs is actually quite interesting.

This speaks of damp-heat that is collecting as edema in the lower limbs.

Think of this as hot-humid weather in your body. It is more humid than hot

though, hence it sinks to the lower portions of the body. If it were more

heat than humidity, it would likely rise up to become a heavy headache or

something along those lines.

 

There's a formula for this particular presentation (as I see you in my mind,

which may not be accurate of course.) The formula is called Si Miao San or

Wan <http://www.rootdown.us/Formulas/Si+Miao+Wan?query=Si+Miao+Wan> (Four

Wonderful [ingreidents] Powder or Pills).

 

As for the varicose veins, that would be either a weakness of the vessels

(fine, " venous insufficiency " is okay) which speaks of " Spleen qi

deficiency " or it could be blood stagnation which is reasonably obvious as

well. If it is Spleen qi def. you should also see easy bruising. Formula for

that is called " Gui Pi

Tang<http://www.rootdown.us/Formulas/FormulaDetail.aspx?formulaID=39> "

(Bolster the Spleen decoction). For blood stagnation, I suppose the safest

way to go would be " Si Wu

Tang<http://www.rootdown.us/Formulas/FormulaDetail.aspx?formulaID=38> "

(Four Ingredients Decoction), but there are oodles of blood stagnation

formulas that may be better, depending on a variety of other factors that

would be flushed out by a face-to-face with a Chinese medicine practitioner.

 

So, I tend to think herbally as that's my therapeutic orientation, but

acupuncture is good for these things too. They overlap somewhat in regards

to what I'm saying. But if there is significant damage to the lymphatic

system, acupuncture (or any needle prick) in the area in quesiton may be a

bad idea, since the lymph system helps to prevent infections. I'll leave the

particulars to the acupuncturists on this list.

 

Hope that helps.

-al.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

So, do the symptoms I listed have any significance?

I am pretty certain that I DO have lymphatic insufficiency as well as venous

insufficiency. My symptoms of that are: (1) fat legs (fat edema) with thin

body, (2) swelling/achiness feeling in limbs, (3) mild immune disfunction

history, (4) varicose veins.

I am wanting acupuncture and/or Chinese herbs to: (1) increase my lymphatic flow

AND (2) heal my venous insufficiency.

Will acupuncture and/or Chinese herbs be able to do those 2 things?

Thanks

Julie

[Guest guest]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:00 PM, mom114425 <stompingbaby wrote:

 

>

>

> So, do the symptoms I listed have any significance?

>

 

 

 

Yes. My response described what is important.

 

 

> I am pretty certain that I DO have lymphatic insufficiency as well as

> venous insufficiency. My symptoms of that are: (1) fat legs (fat edema) with

> thin body, (2) swelling/achiness feeling in limbs, (3) mild immune

> disfunction history, (4) varicose veins.

> I am wanting acupuncture and/or Chinese herbs to: (1) increase my lymphatic

> flow AND (2) heal my venous insufficiency.

> Will acupuncture and/or Chinese herbs be able to do those 2 things?

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure.

 

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.