acupuncture causing migraines/constipation ??

[Guest guest]

I posted a month or two ago re my mild lipoedema.

 

Additionally, I have hypothyroidism and adrenal issues. I am treating those two

issues with Cytomel and oral Hydrocortisone - and have had good success though

my thyroid and adrenals are not yet optimal. I an tracking my temps, and though

they have gone up, they still need more increase.

 

I am a thin (5-4/110 pounds) breastfeeding mom. My body is thin, but I have

fattish legs. That is where the mild lipoedema comes in.

 

My acupuncturist thinks that the lipoedema is part of my thyroid issues. SO,

last Wed., she went all out on thorough acupuncture to help my thyroid. She has

a book written by the guy who brought 5 Element Acupuncture to the US and

followed his suggested points for thyroid.

 

That was Wed afternoon. On Thurs AM, I had a mild migraine on the right side.

In the AM, after eating breakfast, I had very explosive and urgent (like I

almost did not make it to the bathroom) BM. As the day went on, my migraine

became worse and worse. It was very painful. It finally went away around 9pm.

 

The next day (Fri), I woke with a migraine on the right side. It was mild and

did not progress. But, it never completely went away. It was almost gone but

still remained a tiny bit.

 

Today (Sat), I woke with a moderate migraine -again on the right side. It

progressed to become quite significant. I took some tylenol with codeine, and

it lessened the migraine somewhat. After drinking coffee in the afternoon, I

have produced lots of BM. But, I still have a migraine...

 

Historically, my migraines are usually related to constipation. I think the

constipation is usually related to less than optimal thyroid function. Since

getting on Cytomel and Hydrocortison, I have not had migraines for a LONG time.

 

ALSO, last week, I drank herbal formula tea that was prescribed by my

acupuncturist. She ordered the raw herbs from Kamwo Pharmacy in NYC, and I used

that to make the tea. It was supposed to be working on my lipoedema issue. I

woke in the night with tingly arms/legs. I took it last week's Wed (6/22) and

Thurs (6/23). I had a migraine those entire two days - as well as constipation.

I ended up having floating BM, which I think indicates fat excretion. Any

thoughts on this? (I don't have the ingredients).

 

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Sounds like you've got a lot on your plate, there.

 

The first question that I'd ask is, are these symptoms common for you? Or

are they new?

 

Thanks.

 

-al.

 

 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:10 PM, mom114425 <stompingbaby wrote:

 

>

>

> I posted a month or two ago re my mild lipoedema.

>

> Additionally, I have hypothyroidism and adrenal issues. I am treating those

> two issues with Cytomel and oral Hydrocortisone - and have had good success

> though my thyroid and adrenals are not yet optimal. I an tracking my temps,

> and though they have gone up, they still need more increase.

>

> Thanks!

> .

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The constipation/migraines are NOT common for me, and I feel like they are

directly tied to the herbal formula and my most recent acupuncture. By that I

mean, the first episode of constipation/migraine is related to the herbal

formula. The second episode (current) is related to my most recent acupuncture.

 

I DO have a long history of migraines. BUT, I've not had them really in the

past year that I have been working on my adrenal/thyroid with Cytomel and

Hydrocortisone.

 

In this past year, I have come to see that migraines (at least for me, but I

think for many people) are caused by sub-optimal thyroid function - which causes

constipation - which causes migraines. This constipation often is NOT really

noticeable but is still there. Low thyroid function causes constipation.

ANYWAY, my thyroid has been functioning much better in the past year, thus

producing minimal migraines.

 

Even in my past migraine history, I've not had many this bad. I used to take

tylenol with codeine - and that helped a lot. Or drink coffee - and that helped

a lot. NOW, nothing is helping... I have been using natural laxatives

(yesterday and today) - and am producing a odd looking BM - but I've still got

the horrible migraine.

 

Somehow, it seems that I am having an inverse effect from my recent acupuncture.

She was wanting to increase my thyroid function and increase my temps, yet the

opposite seems to have happened.

 

Thanks!!

Julie

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Al Stone <al wrote:

>

> Sounds like you've got a lot on your plate, there.

>

> The first question that I'd ask is, are these symptoms common for you? Or

> are they new?

>

> Thanks.

>

> -al.

>

>

> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:10 PM, mom114425 <stompingbaby wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > I posted a month or two ago re my mild lipoedema.

> >

> > Additionally, I have hypothyroidism and adrenal issues. I am treating those

> > two issues with Cytomel and oral Hydrocortisone - and have had good success

> > though my thyroid and adrenals are not yet optimal. I an tracking my temps,

> > and though they have gone up, they still need more increase.

> >

> > Thanks!

> > .

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 9:49 AM, mom114425 <stompingbaby wrote:

 

>

>

> Somehow, it seems that I am having an inverse effect from my recent

> acupuncture. She was wanting to increase my thyroid function and increase my

> temps, yet the opposite seems to have happened.

>

 

 

You might consider looking up an acupuncturist who doesn't have to look up

the points in a book. I guess we all need to check references now and then,

but the fact that the acupuncturist is using a Five Element book to treat

thyroid function is kind of strange. Thyroid is not Five Elements. Just not

sure what they're doing or why.

 

The only screw ups (screws up?) that I've seen with acupuncture is limited

to:

 

1. Poking a structure by needling too deep.

2. " Needle Shock " (vaso-vagal reaction, or fainting, nausea, hypotension)

3. Local bruises, but these aren't really mistakes, more just inevitable

small problems.

 

Acupuncture is often considered a " regulatory " process whereby a needle will

lift if the qi needs to lift, or descend if the qi needs to descend. It

stimulates the needed movements, but not uneeded movements.

 

Herbs are more stubborn in this regard. Best to know what you're doing

before trying something. The idea that herbs don't have side-effects is

wrong. A book that has informed herbalists for the past 1800 years (Shang

Han Lun) is full of insights as to how to treat the mistakes made by

practitiioners. For instance, giving someone purgatives if they don't have

constipation can cause chronic diarrhea and other problems secondary to

digestive inefficiencies.

 

So, if Chinese medicine keeps making your body go hay-wire perhaps it is

wise to try something else.

 

I don't personally believe in the so-called 'healing crises'. Sometimes

problems do get worse before they get better, but they still follow the

general trajectory of the disease process until such time that the medical

intervention can alter that trajectory.

 

I've heard from people who are doing a particular fast or cleanse and they

report bloody mucus-lined diarrhea. They're told that these symptoms are

part of the process. If I gave someone herbs and that happened, I'd change

the formula immediately and probably CC my medical malpractice carrier at

the same time.

 

On rare occasions, herbalists will use purgatives (poop enablers) or

diuretics (stimulate urination) and even emetics (produces nausea/vomiting),

but the effects that these herbs have are well documented and predictiable.

 

Not sure what to think about all your symptoms. That's why I'm wondering if

Chinese medicine is right for you.

 

-al.

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Al!

 

I have previously done acupuncture with a different Chinese med dr. That was

mostly for back pain in my most recent pregnancy. It worked *really* well I

did not do herbs with her.

 

Our financial situation has changed, and I just can't afford to go the first

acupuncturist anymore. My new acupuncturist offers group/community acupuncture

for a much lower price, and that includes prescribing herbs. I cannot find any

other low cost option in my area. There appears to be no schools and no other

group acupuncture. SO, I'm kind of stuck...

 

I *think* that my acupuncturist is competent, and she seems to have good

references. She is trained in 5 element acupuncture. The *problem* may be that

she seems to not have much thyroid issue experience. Maybe people just don't

get acupuncture for that? I don't know... She seems to mostly do digestive

issues, stress issues, depression, and fertility. I have had her do acupuncture

4 times. The 1st 3 times really made me *feel* no different. She did leg and

arm points. This recent 4th time, she did LOTS of points, after consulting

*that book*. Since I had had the negative herb reaction, she was feeling the

need to research. She said that I have a problem with my " earth " element - and

that that is seen in my odd skin coloring (apparently - I did not realize my

skin was odd colored but she said it is yellow). She also thinks I have a huge

Qi deficiency and that I should have been doing acupuncture since I was 7 years

old due to the huge Qi deficiency.

 

I am wanting to stick it out with her for a bit longer, as I don't have a lot of

options with acupuncture practitioners...

 

Since I have had positive results with acupuncture in the past, it seems that

acupuncture can work for me.

 

Do you have any advice or thoughts about this?

Thanks

Julie

[Guest guest]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 1:09 PM, mom114425 <stompingbaby wrote:

 

>

>

> I *think* that my acupuncturist is competent, and she seems to have good

> references. She is trained in 5 element acupuncture. The *problem* may be

> that she seems to not have much thyroid issue experience.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is my concern. There is a certain point in one's experience in Chinese

medicine (including five element style) where you make an intellectual leap

understanding that " thyroid issues " is meaningless and one must simply treat

what they see from the paradigm that we've been taught.

 

There are those who treat things from a Western perspective and I really

don't have any particular criticism for this style. In the case of a thyroid

problem, they might do some needles near the physical location of the

thyroid in the neck, or the forehead point near the pituitary gland or

something like that.

 

However, when a 5E person is trying to figure out what to do about thyroid

issues, it doesn't appear that they've gotten to the point where they

realize that they need to ignore that information and *treat what they see*.

 

Can anybody see thyroid hormones in a clinic without blood tests or other

Western lab tests? Even if you saw goiter, you'd still treat that as a

phlegm accumulation, because that's how it looks from the TCM perspective.

I " m not saying there aren't other ways to look at it, but I am saying that

" thyroid issues " do not exist in 5E. Simple as that. So, she couldn't be

doing what she's been trained to do.

 

Now, it is very likely that what they're telling you is different from what

they're thinking. I can't tell you how many times I've treated someone's

self-diagnosed parasites or medically diagnosed whatever with Spleen Qi

tonics because *that's what I saw*.

 

Tell you what, you might want to ask your acupuncturist this hypothetical

question: " if I didn't tell you that I have thyroid issues, if I didn't tell

you anything, what would you see from the 5E perspective? "

 

Then follow up with: " treat that. "

 

Hope it works out for ya.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Since these symptoms are unusual for you, (at least in present time), have

you had a MD make sure that there isn't some other cause for the migraine?

A few friends have had stubborn headaches that they wrote off as migraines,

(which they've had in the past), but it turned out that once they finally

sought out a conventional medicine diagnosis, there was a different

underlying cause that needed immediate attention. I don't want to alarm you,

but since you have a horrible migraine that isn't responding to things that

typically help your migraines, it sounds like it might be a good idea to

have a MD check you out, just to play it safe.

 

Jeri