Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 Rob, thank you for the response. I am just getting into the use of laser for acupuncture, have seen color therapy and I am amazed at some of the results. My question to you is : How often do you use the laser therapy on your patients, duration and results. I plan to use in combination with standard TCM. Went to the web site and will probably purchase the LS01. Any other info or site with laser therapy please let me know. Thank you again, louis - " Vibeke en Rob " <JetteS Wednesday, April 26, 2000 5:44 AM lasers > Dear Louis, > > I have seven years experience with the Agnis LO1 laser > and am very happy with it. It is cheap strong and > reliable, it was produced as spin off from Russian > defence research. I was introduced to it when working > in Byelarus and immediately started working with it > and still do. They are infrared GaAs lasers.You can > find them at: > > http://www2.omnitel.net/agnis/ > > OK good luck > Rob Jansen. > > ===== > http://www.vitaminlab.com/cj.cfm?pid=380300 > > > > Send online invitations with Invites. > http://invites. > > ------ > Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. > http://click./1/3019/6/_/542111/_/956742275/ > ------ > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 Hello Louis, a quick respons to your mail. I usually take the laser if I treat children or to stimulate some extra points if there are already enough needles in the patient. When used to stimulate acupoints I put all parameters on max and take 15 sec. per point, when reducing 25 sec and more pressure aplied. Furthermore it is a thing you get used to and use according your intuition. If you order one send them my regards. xxx Rob. ===== http://www.vitaminlab.com/cj.cfm?pid=380300 Send online invitations with Invites. http://invites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 wealth of information on lasers + LEDS at http://www.laser.nu/ a really good starting point. The more you read the research the more you may be reminded of TCM in America. A lot of success stories, a lot of hype, a lot of conflicting reports (even in the NASA study) a maze of information. But its exciting and it works well with acupuncture. Of course maybe a surgical laser we can discover a new way to prepare herbs... Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2000 Report Share Posted April 27, 2000 I almost hate to bring this up again. . . .but. . .. I thought this was a Chinese herbal medicine site. . . ..I am perplexed by these discussions of technologies that are peripheral to traditional Chinese medicine, and seem to be accepted without question by practitioners. I am unaware that there is any general acceptance by the Chinese medical community of the use of lasers, and certainly, no classical basis for using them. What are the criteria? 1) Each xue/point has a location, DEPTH, STIMULUS, and protocol for supplementation or drainage when using moxa or needles. How do you determine depth, dosage and stimulus for laser, without any historical protocol or classical source? 2) While laser 'acupuncture' and color therapy may well be promising treatments, by what criteria do we know if we are helping or doing damage in the long term? 3) Without using discrimination or judgment in our choice of treatment modality, at this early stage of development of Chinese medicine in the West, we risk loss of credibility of our profession. We should let our patients know that laser treatment is experimental and get their consent, at the very least. >Rob, >thank you for the response. I am just getting into the use of laser for >acupuncture, have seen color therapy and I am amazed at some of the results. >My question to you is : How often do you use the laser therapy on your >patients, duration and results. I plan to use in combination with standard >TCM. > Went to the web site and will probably purchase the LS01. > >Any other info or site with laser therapy please let me know. > >Thank you again, > >louis >- > " Vibeke en Rob " <JetteS > >Wednesday, April 26, 2000 5:44 AM > lasers > > >> Dear Louis, >> >> I have seven years experience with the Agnis LO1 laser >> and am very happy with it. It is cheap strong and >> reliable, it was produced as spin off from Russian >> defence research. I was introduced to it when working >> in Byelarus and immediately started working with it >> and still do. They are infrared GaAs lasers.You can >> find them at: >> >> http://www2.omnitel.net/agnis/ >> >> OK good luck >> Rob Jansen. >> >> ===== >> http://www.vitaminlab.com/cj.cfm?pid=380300 >> >> >> >> Send online invitations with Invites. >> http://invites. >> >> ------ >> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. >> http://click./1/3019/6/_/542111/_/956742275/ >> ------ >> >> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help >> > > >------ >Avoid the lines and visit avis.com for quick and easy online >reservations. Enjoy a compact car nationwide for only $29 a day! >Click here for more details. >http://click./1/3011/6/_/542111/_/956761237/ >------ > >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 There is a new laser out there that is 7 watts (cold laser) and 980nm. That would be something i would love to play with but do not want to spend 50,000$. 980nm should do well for orthopedic problems as it has deeper penetration than shorter waves. Also, i have to say that i have been getting better results using infrared LED units than with the lasers I played with over the years. Perhaps because I am using much higher powers. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 wrote: > Hi Pete, & All, > > Pete Theisen wrote: > How much do [lasers] cost? > > Anything between 2,000 and 8000 Euros, depending on the power and > the in-built technology. Hi Phil! Thanks for the reply. Is anyone using them given that cost? I am wondering if offering " painless " laser acupuncture would put me in the black, or just be another cost piled on to all the others. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 wrote: > i have been getting better results using infrared LED units Hi Alon! Really? Have you a link for the unit you prefer? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Hi all, > > More info on painless laser treatment, see > http://www.medicalacupuncture.org/aama_marf/journal/vol16_1/article5.html > Hi Attilio! What are the photographs of? If you click on them they get bigger but I still can't identify what I am looking at. The hand, ear and man drawings I have seen before, and I know what a graph is, but the central photo - What is it? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 This is another abstract of the use of the Laserneedle apparatus- costing around 11.000 euros. It was published in World J. Acu " Mox.Vol.11,No.4,December, 2001 CLINICAL STUDY OF LASERNEEDLE ACUPUNCTURE Med. M .Weber Facharzt?r Allgemeinmedzzzn , L6nsstr.10,37697 Lauen?rde, Germany ABSTRACT We are reporting over 500 acupuncture cases, a wide range of illnesses ranging from orthopedic, internal,neurological and psychological diseases, all of which were treated with a newly developed and therefore available Laserneedle system. This system was highly successful in treatment of a variety of illnesses including HWS, BWS and LWS Syndromes, gonarthritis coxarthritis, rhizarthrosis, periarthritis of the shoulder, epicondylitis humeri radialis,tendinitis, fibromyalgia and PCP, Morbus Bechterew, paralysis after stroke, migraine and other headache syndrome,tinnitus, trigeminal neuralgia, gastropathy, bronchial asthma, AVK, mental depression and other psychovegatative burnout syndrome by using both body acupoints and otopoints. Treatment was made by simultaneously using 8Laserneedles which were not pricked into, but stuck onto the skin. The Laserneedles emit red and infrared Laserrays with a high energy output, so that perceptible, vegetative stimulation can be detected at the acupunctured sites. We found out, that especially in the therapy resistant, long standing cases and cases with chronic back and spine problems,considerable improvements in easing pain and increasing mobility could be made. Recognizable success was made by using Laserneedles in cases sufering from psychological illnesses, especially psychosomatic related Burnoutsyndrome and cases of exhaustion. Usually after 2^-3 treatments, eficient success was made, without any side efects what so ever. It seems to be effective for many things, but not the instability Alon was talking about. Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Really? Have you a link for the unit you prefer >>>> I build my own Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 wrote: > Really? Have you a link for the unit you prefer > > I build my own Hi Alon! Mondo cool! Have you a link to the plans? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Pete click on medicalacupuncture and scroll down to reference #5 click on. Ross - Pete Theisen Chinese Medicine Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:40 AM Re: Lasers Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Hi all, > > More info on painless laser treatment, see > http://www.medicalacupuncture.org/aama_marf/journal/vol16_1/article5.html > Hi Attilio! What are the photographs of? If you click on them they get bigger but I still can't identify what I am looking at. The hand, ear and man drawings I have seen before, and I know what a graph is, but the central photo - What is it? Regards, Pete http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Have you a link to the plans >>>>> I design them Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 wrote: > Have you a link to the plans > > I design them Hi Alon! Have anything you are sharing with the community? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 courtenayhealing wrote: > Pete > click on medicalacupuncture and scroll down to reference #5 click on. Hi Ross! Yes, much better picture. Thanks. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Have anything you are sharing with the community? >>>>>> If you are interested we can build one for you. If you are interested in the bales unit you can go CTI web site, they are much more expensive Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 wrote: > Have anything you are sharing with the community? > > If you are interested we can build one for you. If you are interested > in the bales unit Hi Alon! How much to do that? How long does it take? Do you include a set of instructions? Unfamiliar with bales. Has bales ever posted to the list? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Bales is a commercial unit. I believe it cost about $5000 for a 300mw unit. We can build units and they their cost depends on power. $650 for 500mw, 800 for 1,5watts, and around $5000 for a unit that will have 9 (10 have not decided) 1.watts 1cm square diodes that will rap around a joint. We currently have the $500mw diodes, the 1.watts are being build so it will take about 5 weeks until we get them. We will have simple instractions. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Alon What would the extent and limitations of treatment be with the $650- unit. - Chinese Medicine Friday, August 26, 2005 7:56 AM Re: Lasers Bales is a commercial unit. I believe it cost about $5000 for a 300mw unit. We can build units and they their cost depends on power. $650 for 500mw, 800 for 1,5watts, and around $5000 for a unit that will have 9 (10 have not decided) 1.watts 1cm square diodes that will rap around a joint. We currently have the $500mw diodes, the 1.watts are being build so it will take about 5 weeks until we get them. We will have simple instractions. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Howdy Alon, How many nanometers is it? any bells or whistles? Cameron Chinese Medicine , " Alon Marcus DOM " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > Bales is a commercial unit. I believe it cost about $5000 for a 300mw unit. > We can build units and they their cost depends on power. $650 for 500mw, 800 for 1,5watts, and around $5000 for a unit that will have 9 (10 have not decided) 1.watts 1cm square diodes that will rap around a joint. We currently have the $500mw diodes, the 1.watts are being build so it will take about 5 weeks until we get them. > We will have simple instractions. > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 What would the extent and limitations of treatment be with the $650- unit. >>>>>> It takes longer, because it 880nm the penetration is not as deep as the 1.5W which is 950nm which makes it a little better for orthopedic problems. For diabetic neuropathy the are probably the same Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 what about it's efficacy in treating children or needle-phobic patients? - Chinese Medicine Friday, August 26, 2005 12:14 PM Re: Lasers What would the extent and limitations of treatment be with the $650- unit. >>>>>> It takes longer, because it 880nm the penetration is not as deep as the 1.5W which is 950nm which makes it a little better for orthopedic problems. For diabetic neuropathy the are probably the same Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 what about it's efficacy in treating children or needle-phobic patients >>>>>> Depends on condition. Overall use i think the longer wave of the 1.5W is worth it because its better for ortho stuff. No difference in terms of children or phobics Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Howdy Alon, How many nanometers is it? any bells or whistles >>>> Hi Cameron, the 1.5W is 950nm other 880nm. No bells or whistles because i have not found any reliable info on pulse rates and we have not seen any improvement in results trying different pulse rates. Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2005 Report Share Posted August 27, 2005 What would this one cost Alon? I find myself at times thinking that a laser might be very helpful for local treatment of wounded or swollen or inflamed tissues combined with distal needling. Thans for sharing your knowledge about this. Turiya Hill - Chinese Medicine Friday, August 26, 2005 12:34 PM Re: Lasers what about it's efficacy in treating children or needle-phobic patients >>>>>> Depends on condition. Overall use i think the longer wave of the 1.5W is worth it because its better for ortho stuff. No difference in terms of children or phobics Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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