Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Does it have a special feeling when the needle penetrates into the peritoneal cavity? I'm thin and I was needled at SP13, REN3 (or 4?) and it felt bad (=inconvenient distention). I'm curious if that was it. I know for the Chinese it's okay to needle into the peritoneal cavity. But I'd rather avoid it. I read Deadman also warns against it. Thanks, Tamas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Yeah, I'm not too crazy about going that deep into the abdomen either. I don't know what it feels like when it happens but if you develop a fever, you should probably see a doctor. If you're okay now (one day after you posted this), I'm guessing all is well. -al. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:03 PM, yakenez <knz wrote: > Does it have a special feeling when the needle penetrates into the > peritoneal cavity? I'm thin and I was needled at SP13, REN3 (or 4?) and it > felt bad (=inconvenient distention). I'm curious if that was it. > > I know for the Chinese it's okay to needle into the peritoneal cavity. But > I'd rather avoid it. I read Deadman also warns against it. > > Thanks, > Tamas > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Dear List, I am a hemodialysis technician, and while my primary concern is hemodialysis, my clinic does offer pertoneal dialysis as a modality option. I have witnessed the devastation of peritonitis firsthand, and I would beg anyone who might have their peritoneal membrane penetrated on purpose, to seriously weigh the potential gain agianst the chance of developing a life threatening infection. The incidence of peritonitis is not uncommon and people DO die from this. Please use the utmost care and surgical cleanliness when dealing with this area. Your humble servant, Joshua Best --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Al Stone <al wrote: Al Stone <al Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] penetrating into peritoneal cavity Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 6:08 PM Yeah, I'm not too crazy about going that deep into the abdomen either. I don't know what it feels like when it happens but if you develop a fever, you should probably see a doctor. If you're okay now (one day after you posted this), I'm guessing all is well. -al. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:03 PM, yakenez <knz (AT) knzaudio (DOT) com> wrote: > Does it have a special feeling when the needle penetrates into the > peritoneal cavity? I'm thin and I was needled at SP13, REN3 (or 4?) and it > felt bad (=inconvenient distention). I'm curious if that was it. > > I know for the Chinese it's okay to needle into the peritoneal cavity. But > I'd rather avoid it. I read Deadman also warns against it. > > Thanks, > Tamas > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hi Joshua, If there is an infection growing secondary to a peritoneal needle insertion, what kind of symptoms would you expect to see, and how long would it take for them to arise? Does this wikipedia entry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peritonitis>cover it well? I know of a few practitioners who really like the deep abdominal needling. I never found that approach very attractive myself, but it's out there. I can say that I have heard of only one situation where the colon was perforated and a life-threatening infection ensued. This after somewhat monitoring this situation for perhaps 15 years. It doesn't sound like something that happens too often. -al On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:46 AM, josh best <melliphile wrote: > Dear List, > I am a hemodialysis technician, and while my primary concern is > hemodialysis, my clinic does offer pertoneal dialysis as a modality > option. I have witnessed the devastation of peritonitis firsthand, and I > would beg anyone who might have their peritoneal membrane penetrated on > purpose, to seriously weigh the potential gain agianst the chance of > developing a life threatening infection. The incidence of peritonitis is > not uncommon and people DO die from this. Please use the utmost care and > surgical cleanliness when dealing with this area. > Your humble servant, > Joshua Best > > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Wikipedia seems to pretty much cover it. Fever, chills, nausea, distention of the abdomen, etc. All the thing that accompany a typical internal infection. The " prognosis " section of the wikipedia page reads: " If properly treated, typical cases of surgically correctable peritonitis (e.g. perforated peptic ulcer, appendicitis, and diverticulitis) have a mortality rate of about <10% in otherwise healthy patients, which rises to about 40% in the elderly, and/or in those with significant underlying illness, as well as in cases that present late (after 48h). If untreated, generalised peritonitis is almost always fatal. " My patients are immuno-comprimised so we treat all infections of this nature with the utmost urgency. Sepsis is not an uncommon result. I'm not sure what the gestation period is for this type of infection, it may depend on what kind of pathogen has invaded (wikipedia mentions a 48hr. timeframe). At the first sign of infection they go immediately to the E.R. and are invariably admitted. Unless piercing the peritoneal cavity was neccesary ( I can't imagine it would be) to save one's life, I would seek an alternate plan of therapy. What ails your patient can't be as bad as Sepsis. Again, this is only my opinion. Your humble servant, Joshua Best --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Al Stone <al wrote: Al Stone <al Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] penetrating into peritoneal cavity Chinese Traditional Medicine Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 2:10 PM Hi Joshua, If there is an infection growing secondary to a peritoneal needle insertion, what kind of symptoms would you expect to see, and how long would it take for them to arise? Does this wikipedia entry<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Peritonitis>cover it well? I know of a few practitioners who really like the deep abdominal needling. I never found that approach very attractive myself, but it's out there. I can say that I have heard of only one situation where the colon was perforated and a life-threatening infection ensued. This after somewhat monitoring this situation for perhaps 15 years. It doesn't sound like something that happens too often. -al On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:46 AM, josh best <melliphile > wrote: > Dear List, > I am a hemodialysis technician, and while my primary concern is > hemodialysis, my clinic does offer pertoneal dialysis as a modality > option. I have witnessed the devastation of peritonitis firsthand, and I > would beg anyone who might have their peritoneal membrane penetrated on > purpose, to seriously weigh the potential gain agianst the chance of > developing a life threatening infection. The incidence of peritonitis is > not uncommon and people DO die from this. Please use the utmost care and > surgical cleanliness when dealing with this area. > Your humble servant, > Joshua Best > > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 As for me, it's been 8 days since my last treatment and I'm still fine. Whatever it was. The doctor is a Chinese guy (practiced there for 20 yrs) moreover I'm thin and I had inconvenient distention at the needles, that's why I thought it could have penetrated the membrane. If Deadman is correct ( " ...whilst in China it's not considered problematic to needle into the p. c. ... " ) penetration does not result in infection so easily, even with the Chinese way of needle handling (which is far from surgical cleanliness). Or does it? The next day I did have some warm, stirred up feeling in my abdomen. But that was the goal of the treatment, I thought (Spleen/Yang def). Anyway, I'll go to another doctor now, this one raised too many questions in me (like why to needle SP13 in the first place, there are much better points for me). Tamas Kenez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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