electro meridian imaging, gimmick or useful?

[Guest guest]

hi all, is anyone out there using electro meridian imaging, and how

useful is it?, or is it just a gimmick?

best regards Kim

[Guest guest]

For my money, I would put this into the category of " gimmick " but as one of

my favorite teachers once said " if its around in 100 years, perhaps there's

something to it.

 

-al.

 

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:36 AM, kimmcmenamin2000 <

kimmcmenamin2000 wrote:

 

> hi all, is anyone out there using electro meridian imaging, and how

> useful is it?, or is it just a gimmick?

> best regards Kim

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[Guest guest]

really, i did some research on this and it seems it is based on the Japanese

RYODORAKU system of disgnosis, and I have posted questions about this on other

forums and it seems to be used by a lot of acupuncturists out there, with mostly

good reviews, what makes you say or think mit is a gimmick?

kim

Chinese Traditional Medicine

al

Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:27:09 -0800

Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] electro meridian imaging, gimmick or useful?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For my money, I would put this into the category of " gimmick " but as

one of

 

my favorite teachers once said " if its around in 100 years, perhaps there's

 

something to it.

 

 

 

-al.

 

 

 

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:36 AM, kimmcmenamin2000 <

 

kimmcmenamin2000 wrote:

 

 

 

> hi all, is anyone out there using electro meridian imaging, and how

 

> useful is it?, or is it just a gimmick?

 

> best regards Kim

 

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[Guest guest]

I don't trust machines that quantify " qi " . I've seen too many of these

things and while they're very clear on what they say, it rarely is used with

corrobarating signs and symptoms to truly support a diagnosis.

 

I don't base my diganosis solely on the pulse, the tongue, the smells or

sounds, or answers to questions. I triangulate them all to arrive at a

comprehensive picture.

 

If I were doing only acupuncture and only meridian treatments then perhaps

this approach would have some value, but from where I sit, it looks kike

something that people who don't otherwise know how to diagnose would use.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about specifically, I'm responding to my

experience with these electrical devices that are said to provide some sort

of pulse or meridian qi insight. Just haven't seen anything that I agree

with. For instance, if this device says that the UB channel has too much qi,

or cold, or something, but the patient has a fever or red in their face. It

just doesn't add up. Practicitioners who use these devices just rely solely

on their findings, and I think that's wrong. But consumers love devices, so

it sells well.

 

Like I say, if its still around in 100 years, perhaps there's something to

it. I've seen quite a few devices come and go in my scanty 20- years

observing the industry.

 

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 10:45 AM, kim mc menamin

<kimmcmenaminwrote:

 

>

> really, i did some research on this and it seems it is based on the

> Japanese RYODORAKU system of disgnosis, and I have posted questions about

> this on other forums and it seems to be used by a lot of acupuncturists out

> there, with mostly good reviews, what makes you say or think mit is a

> gimmick?

> kim

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Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I would also tend to agree with Al =) Mostly I think they are a

device that people use that may not know how to otherwise diagnose.

 

A system called the IQS ( http://www.i2inetwork.com/ )has been made

and developed close to where I live. I've been to a few training

seminars that the inventor (of this particular system, a physicist)

put on. I found the machines to be quite accurate in certain aspects.

Basically this system puts a question up on the screen and an

electrical connection is made between the probe and a brass grip in

the other hand. From my experience someone can't just go up and start

using the machine, but it can be pretty well managed in about 2 hours

or so by just about anyone.

 

I found that it didn't matter what question was up on the screen, it

mattered which question I (and the other person) was thinking about.

Like for instance when I was training on the machine and how to

properly use the probe, the question that was always in my head was am

I getting the probe in the right spot. The way I set it up was that

50% was a balanced answer and closer to 0 was low and 100 was high. I

was always getting 50 +/- 1 or 2, no matter what question popped up on

the screen, or what I asked the other person at first. Once I stopped

focusing on the probe so much and focused more on the question it

worked quite well. I was working with a chiropractor we put the

system went through a series of questions about meat, and without any

response from him besides what came from the machine (ie verbal, cues,

writing, head shakes etc), it said he ate too much chicken. After I

talked to him about it and he said he ate exclusively chicken and

avoided all other types of meat. I had several experiences like that,

and based on that I feel comfortable saying that there is something

there worth looking at.

 

I feel that it's very reliant upon the practitioner however though.

Just because you can get answers to questions in certain situations

with certain intentions doesn't mean you have a good system. I found

that if I or the other person was distracted the answers came back the

same, very distracted. Basically I feel that these systems are trying

to make technicians out of healing arts. I found them very intention

based, and basically what I found is that if you had someone who could

get good answers out of the machine, they probably already had enough

talent and discipline to diagnose other ways and wouldn't find the

system much more meaningful than what they already knew; maybe some

quantification to what they already knew was the case. (There were a

few TCM schools represented at these seminars as well as

psychologists, chiropractors, massage therapists, and even a couple of

MD's)

 

Just like with TCM, almost anyone can be taught to feel a pulse, but

not anyone can produce a meaningful diagnose with it. The

interpretation of comprehensive sum of the parts is where the meaning

is. Healing really is an art form because of the human element.

 

This machine when I was working with it was around 15k to buy it

outright, which makes a pretty substantial investment. They also had

options to lease, or pay per test done with the machine. I went to a

few people who used this machine, and I did not have results with

them. Weirdly enough though I took my TCM formula that I had made up

for me at the time; there is a plate on the machine where you would

place the remedy and then use the probe to see if it will work.

Ironically enough the formula came up 50% (so right on) and the gal

told me to throw the stuff away, because she said it wouldn't really

take care of what was going on and it would just be waisted until I

got on her stuff and got the real issue taken care of.

 

Al has a good point when he said that consumers love devices, and they

sell well. Honestly I found at this seminar that people in general

are comfortable being hooked up to a machine that tells them what is

wrong with them, because it's about information and technology. There

seems to be some comfort level with it.

 

That's basically the experience I've had with it, hopefully that helps

one way or the other. I'd be glad to share more if there's anything

you want to ask me =)

 

 

 

-- In Chinese Traditional Medicine , Al Stone <al wrote:

>

> I don't trust machines that quantify " qi " . I've seen too many of these

> things and while they're very clear on what they say, it rarely is

used with

> corrobarating signs and symptoms to truly support a diagnosis.

>

> I don't base my diganosis solely on the pulse, the tongue, the smells or

> sounds, or answers to questions. I triangulate them all to arrive at a

> comprehensive picture.

>

> If I were doing only acupuncture and only meridian treatments then

perhaps

> this approach would have some value, but from where I sit, it looks kike

> something that people who don't otherwise know how to diagnose would

use.

>

> I have no idea what you're talking about specifically, I'm

responding to my

> experience with these electrical devices that are said to provide

some sort

> of pulse or meridian qi insight. Just haven't seen anything that I agree

> with. For instance, if this device says that the UB channel has too

much qi,

> or cold, or something, but the patient has a fever or red in their

face. It

> just doesn't add up. Practicitioners who use these devices just rely

solely

> on their findings, and I think that's wrong. But consumers love

devices, so

> it sells well.

>

> Like I say, if its still around in 100 years, perhaps there's

something to

> it. I've seen quite a few devices come and go in my scanty 20- years

> observing the industry.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Al, the original method has been around since 1951 (thats 58

years!) when Dr.Yoshio Nakatani MD, PhD developed a method of

examining the meridian system of the body through electronic

measurements, he called this method of examination Ryodoraku.The

development of Ryodoraku became international within 25 years of it's

discovery. The method of Ryodoraku was refined and renamed Electro

Meridian Imaging or EMI by

Dr. John A. Amaro in 1982. Among the many reasons for the new term

Electro Meridian Imaging are

 

1. It more accurately described the testing procedure.

2. It standardized the evaluation and graphing of the Yuan (Source)

points and established 200 micro amps as the high value for each

meridian being tested.

3. It gave the procedure a contemporary, descriptive term for

today's patients.

4. It gave the procedure a more medically acceptable term.

It allows the patient to take home a printed copy of the graphic

interpretation of their meridians, as well as diagnostic criteria. In

addition, a copy of involved meridians may be printed, or a copy of

specific points that the patient may use at home to accelerate

clinical response and healing.

I think the method was designed to be used in conjunction with pulse

and tongue and not a s a replacement for. Sort of giving you more

information and also there are times I think that you could maybe

utilize EMI findings to dig deeper and transition a patient from acute

care to general whole-body care.

I have been thinking about buying this equipment, but I just wanted to

find out what the word on it was out there, I did my own research as

you can gather from the info above and Al I appreciate your thoughts

but to reiterate I think used as another form of information to more

accurately diagnose " along " with the pulse and tongue that it could be

useful.

reply soon Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi mrasmm,

thanks for that great info, i think you are right, its not

the machine or the pulse or the tongue or anything else that is

important they are only the tools. Its how a practitioner uses the

the information to arrive at a proper diagnosis to heal the patient

that counts. I think that if an experienced practitioner uses the EMI

technology and adds it to his already practised expert diagnostic

skills that it could maybe improve his information on the patient and

there-by lead to an even more clearer picture especially in very

difficult cases of disharmony. In that respect it could be just the

extra tool of information needed, to crack a difficult case, never a

replacement for diagnosis.

have you used the EMI technology, check this video

http://www.miridiatech.com/acugraph/features/software.htm

regards Kim

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mrasmm " <mrasmm wrote:

>

> I would also tend to agree with Al =) Mostly I think they are a

> device that people use that may not know how to otherwise diagnose.

>

[Guest guest]

Sure, no problem =)

 

I agree, it could be used as a tool for fine tuning diagnosis, at

least in theory. It sounds to me like it has the potential to fit

well in to that mold. With that said, I've never experienced someone

using these electrical diagnosis machines that could run their

practice without one (if you're talking more of the TCM or

supplementation type approach). I've seen psychologists and

chiropractors use them, but I'm not sure to what level they've been

implemented, helpful or successful.

 

The main thing I see, is like you said, the bottom line is when put in

the hands of a viable practitioner who is proficient in what they are

already doing with good results, how would they feel about it? Does

it add to their practice? Does it help them see things in a way that

is deeper or different than before that is meaningful to them (such as

quantification)? Are there ways that the two systems conflict

(traditional vs EMI or whatever), and if so, how is that dealt with?

Does is it make things more confusing or time consuming? Does

treating the number on the screen at times override the things that

would normally be considered important according to the traditional

methods (ie you treat something that you know will work in the long

run, but the machine says the person is doing worse off. Will the

client believe you over the machine?)

 

In theory the answers would probably be yes a machine like this would

be worth while, but the real world application is not usually as

clear. I would be interested to know what the opinion of an already

proficient healer is as far as how they feel a machine like this works

(or doesn't) with their practice. If you try it out, be sure to share

your opinion =) I'm sure there is enough interest here.

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " kimmcmenamin2000 "

<kimmcmenamin2000 wrote:

>

> Hi mrasmm,

> thanks for that great info, i think you are right, its not

> the machine or the pulse or the tongue or anything else that is

> important they are only the tools. Its how a practitioner uses the

> the information to arrive at a proper diagnosis to heal the patient

> that counts. I think that if an experienced practitioner uses the EMI

> technology and adds it to his already practised expert diagnostic

> skills that it could maybe improve his information on the patient and

> there-by lead to an even more clearer picture especially in very

> difficult cases of disharmony. In that respect it could be just the

> extra tool of information needed, to crack a difficult case, never a

> replacement for diagnosis.

> have you used the EMI technology, check this video

> http://www.miridiatech.com/acugraph/features/software.htm

> regards Kim

>