Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Pat, I don't know that I have ever actually read about the subject of the GB school of acupuncture, but I know that I heard about it several times in school and have heard other people make reference to it since. There is always reference to the spirituality of the points in relation to this style of acupuncture when this topic comes up, but I really know no more than that. Joseph Garner >>>There is a school of thought in China which believes that the GB controls everything in the body, so they use only GB acupuncture points to treat everything. Joseph, Could you say a little more about this? Or specify in more detail the source for this? Thanks. I appreciate your elaborations on the conference topic. Pat<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 There is a school of thought in China which believes that the GB controls everything in the body, so they use only GB acupuncture points to treat everything. Joseph, Could you say a little more about this? Or specify in more detail the source for this? Thanks. I appreciate your elaborations on the conference topic. Pat ============================================================================== NOTE: The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not read, use or disseminate the information. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. ============================================================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 , " Par Scott " wrote: > Jeffrey Yuen talks about the gallbladder being a link to Yuan Qi because of its dual status as curious organ and fu organ, the proposition being, I think, that curious organs all store essence and GB points are the only points available for a curious organ. This would certainly make it the yiniest fu. GB always has been the odd fu out in my book, that it is paired with the poorly understood San Jiao just makes it harder to sus. >>> Par: Many different points connect to the curious organs; not just the GB. The link between GB and yuan qi is more straight-forward in how both relate to the brain. You can read---in great detail---about the connection of yuan qi to the brain in Larre and dela Rochat's review of the classics, in their book on the extraordinary organs; it's not an esoteric connection. The connection of the GB to the brain is obvious in many of the idications of the points on the head---especially GB9 being a Window of the Sky point. Another example, when we read a brain tumor in the pulses, the tumor often shows its characteristic movement in the middle fu position because the energy from the brain is clearly reflected in the GB meridian. The brain's general activity can always be found in the pulses through the GB, SJ, the emotional levels, and the senory level of the pulse positions. Another interesting connection is that shaoyang is the closest qi to the activity of the nervous system. Both John Shen and Jiang Jing independently found that wiry and tight pulses also indicate that the nervous system is affecting the muscular system---a clinical observation that is more characteristic of patients in the 20th century than a finding of cold. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 OK, thanks. acugrpaz Office: cc: Re: Gall Bladder 06/17/2003 09:09 PM Please respond to chineseherbacadem y Pat, I don't know that I have ever actually read about the subject of the GB school of acupuncture, but I know that I heard about it several times in school and have heard other people make reference to it since. There is always reference to the spirituality of the points in relation to this style of acupuncture when this topic comes up, but I really know no more than that. Joseph Garner >>>There is a school of thought in China which believes that the GB controls everything in the body, so they use only GB acupuncture points to treat everything. Joseph, Could you say a little more about this? Or specify in more detail the source for this? Thanks. I appreciate your elaborations on the conference topic. Pat<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Hi, Jeffrey Yuen talks about the gallbladder being a link to Yuan Qi because of its dual status as curious organ and fu organ, the proposition being, I think, that curious organs all store essence and GB points are the only points available for a curious organ. This would certainly make it the yiniest fu. GB always has been the odd fu out in my book, that it is paired with the poorly understood San Jiao just makes it harder to sus. In terms of channel relationships, I don't know think there are very many GB herbs that don't have a LV channel tropism as well, but keep in mind that there are no SJ herbs that don't also have a LV tropism! At least not in the standard English materia medica. Chai Hu, Zhi Zi and Xiang Fu, that's it! All of them have something to do with constraint. How that relates to the GB I'm note sure, but it seems interesting. Since Xiang Fu is only LV and SJ and it addresses many LV stagnation symptoms perhaps you can extend some of GB's new status to it. Nan Jing would have us think that the San Jiao is full of Yuan Qi, which seems pretty essential to me. Forgive my ignorance, which is a big job because it is vast: Who is Nan Lu? Are there books on his heterodoxy? Par - acugrpaz Tuesday, June 17, 2003 2:56 PM Gall Bladder All,I think this is the last thing I have to get off my chest for now, but take that with a big grain of salt.There is a school of thought in China which believes that the GB controls everything in the body, so they use only GB acupuncture points to treat everything. Yves Requena says in one of his books that this is because the GB controls 11pm to 1am--midnight--the beginning of the day, and so if the GB is clear the rest of the "day" functions properly. Applying my insights from Sharon Weizenbaum's presentation, I now see this as yang (GB) within yin (midnight) underlying all else; in other words, yin and yang in right relationship.This makes me wonder if the herbs we attribute primarily to liver qi, such as Chai Hu, don't more affect the GB qi. After all, isn't liver yang rising really GB yang rising, since the out-of-control yang ascends to cause headaches in the GB channel and reddens and irritates the eyes, which sit at the beginning of the GB channel? This may add weight to my theory about shaoyang and shaoyin being of crucial importance in regulating the healthy and orderly functioning of the human being. If yin organs control only yin and yang organs only yin, as Nan Lu teaches, this would explain why liver blood xu headaches travel along the liver channel to the vertex of the head and "liver qi" ascending problems travel up the GB channel.Joseph Garner Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 >>>Who is Nan Lu? Are there books on his heterodoxy? Par<<< Par, Nan Lu is a middle-aged Chinese guy practicing in NYC. He is the author of "A Natural Guide to Weight Loss that Lasts,A Woman's Guide to Healing from Breast Cancer," and, I believe, one other book. I watched his tape for the breast cancer book, and on that he performed some tai chi that may be the most beautiful I have ever seen. I do not know that he has ever presented his lineage's heterodoxy in any coherent form in print. His books are intended for the layperson as well as practitioners, so they don't get into TCM theory controversies. I do not mean to promote his theories or not; I simply present them for discussion. I think we could all use an occasional shaking-up. Joseph Garner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Good Morning, What can be done for gall stones, or gall bladder distress - is there something besides that horrid oil cleanse? *gag*. I am on the birth control pill and have been for 26 years with a couple years off here and there. I seem to be prone to stones no matter what I eat - was vegan for two years, still got them - during pregnancy (miscarriage, also had gestational diabetes) - (38 year old female - generally in good health, pink tongue, used to have bad teeth marks, but those are diminishing, no coating). I am a little not so tone, but now overweight and very tall - light skin, light eyes.... i wonder is that enough information or too much LOL! Thank you much, Lexi Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Hi Lexi, There are a few formulas for gallstones (and Kidney stones too) that can be used. They're supposed to favor " damp heat " as an environment but given the few signs and symptoms you've mentioned, nothing really stands out as damp heat to me, though it may still be there in signs that you wouldn't otherwise notice, such as your pulse qualities. Formulas for kidney stones seem to be easier to find than those for gallstones. The only one that comes out and says that its for gallstones is a proprietary formula put together by Evergreen herbs. This formula could be replicated, knowing the ingredients, but a lot of practitioners can get Evergreen products for you, if you're interested. Here are the ingredients and their explanations: Long Dan Cao (Radix Gentianae) enters the Liver and the Gallbladder to clear damp-heat. Yin Chen Hao (Herba Artemisiae Scopariae), an empirical herb for treating hepatic and gallbladder disorders, has a cholagogic function that increases the secretion of bile and the excretion of bile salt and bilirubin. It also lowers serum cholesterol and beta-lipoprotein. Jin Qian Cao (Herba Lysimachiae) dissolves gallstones and increases the secretion of bile by the liver cells. Wei Ling Xian (Radix Clematidis) unblocks the channels and helps to dissolve stones. Li Zhi He (Semen Litchi) relieves abdominal and epigastric pain due to Liver qi constraint. Zhi Ke (Fructus Aurantii) unblocks qi obstruction and facilitates the passage of gallstones. Hai Jin Sha (Herba Lygodii) transforms hardness and dissolves stones. Da Huang (Radix et Rhizoma Rhei) lowers cholesterol and eliminates damp-heat accumulation by its purgative action. So, while this formula may apply to your stones, it would be wise to address the background environment giving rise to this problem, once your current issue is addressed. While there seems to be nothing wrong with you at first pass, we all have some sort of weak link that is beneath the surface of the usual signs and symptoms that we notice. So, while you think you're in pretty good health, there's obviously some pathological process taking place behind the scenes that could and should be addressed eventually. -al. On Feb 3, 2008 9:57 AM, Lexi Busch <lexibusch wrote: > Good Morning, > > What can be done for gall stones, or gall bladder distress - is there > something besides that horrid oil cleanse? *gag*. I am on the birth control > pill and have been for 26 years with a couple years off here and there. I > seem to be prone to stones no matter what I eat - was vegan for two years, > still got them - during pregnancy (miscarriage, also had gestational > diabetes) - (38 year old female - generally in good health, pink tongue, > used to have bad teeth marks, but those are diminishing, no coating). I am a > little not so tone, but now overweight and very tall - light skin, light > eyes.... i wonder is that enough information or too much LOL! > > Thank you much, > Lexi > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Related to this topic, I was curious if anyone was familiar with the herbal tinctures sold by Julia Chang at http://www.sensiblehealth.com/? If so, what do you think of them? Is the combination of coptis, curcuma, bupleurum, lysimachia and Chinese gentian sound as far as TCM principles? Al Stone wrote: > > Hi Lexi, > > There are a few formulas for gallstones (and Kidney stones too) that > can be > used. They're supposed to favor " damp heat " as an environment but > given the > few signs and symptoms you've mentioned, nothing really stands out as damp > heat to me, though it may still be there in signs that you wouldn't > otherwise notice, such as your pulse qualities. > > Formulas for kidney stones seem to be easier to find than those for > gallstones. The only one that comes out and says that its for > gallstones is > a proprietary formula put together by Evergreen herbs. This formula > could be > replicated, knowing the ingredients, but a lot of practitioners can get > Evergreen products for you, if you're interested. > > Here are the ingredients and their explanations: > > Long Dan Cao (Radix Gentianae) enters the Liver and the Gallbladder to > clear > damp-heat. Yin Chen Hao (Herba Artemisiae Scopariae), an empirical > herb for > treating hepatic and gallbladder disorders, has a cholagogic function that > increases the secretion of bile and the excretion of bile salt and > bilirubin. It also lowers serum cholesterol and beta-lipoprotein. Jin Qian > Cao (Herba Lysimachiae) dissolves gallstones and increases the > secretion of > bile by the liver cells. Wei Ling Xian (Radix Clematidis) unblocks the > channels and helps to dissolve stones. Li Zhi He (Semen Litchi) relieves > abdominal and epigastric pain due to Liver qi constraint. Zhi Ke (Fructus > Aurantii) unblocks qi obstruction and facilitates the passage of > gallstones. > Hai Jin Sha (Herba Lygodii) transforms hardness and dissolves stones. Da > Huang (Radix et Rhizoma Rhei) lowers cholesterol and eliminates damp-heat > accumulation by its purgative action. > > So, while this formula may apply to your stones, it would be wise to > address > the background environment giving rise to this problem, once your current > issue is addressed. While there seems to be nothing wrong with you at > first > pass, we all have some sort of weak link that is beneath the surface > of the > usual signs and symptoms that we notice. So, while you think you're in > pretty good health, there's obviously some pathological process taking > place > behind the scenes that could and should be addressed eventually. > > -al. > > On Feb 3, 2008 9:57 AM, Lexi Busch <lexibusch > <lexibusch%40>> wrote: > > > Good Morning, > > > > What can be done for gall stones, or gall bladder distress - is there > > something besides that horrid oil cleanse? *gag*. I am on the birth > control > > pill and have been for 26 years with a couple years off here and > there. I > > seem to be prone to stones no matter what I eat - was vegan for two > years, > > still got them - during pregnancy (miscarriage, also had gestational > > diabetes) - (38 year old female - generally in good health, pink tongue, > > used to have bad teeth marks, but those are diminishing, no > coating). I am a > > little not so tone, but now overweight and very tall - light skin, light > > eyes.... i wonder is that enough information or too much LOL! > > > > Thank you much, > > Lexi > > > > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Julia Chang is a chemist of some sort, not TCM trained (other than her family's traditions, I guess). The authors whom she quotes are from very old TCM books that were among the very first in English, but they don't represent a very enlightened level of TCM herbalism. That being said, her statements online are generally correct, but her depth of knowledge is not there even though she's gone to the trouble of looking up some key diseases in her books (and is a reasonably clear writer herself.) Incidentally, that Gold Coin Grass that she's so in love with is " jin qian cao " one of many herbs that are good for gallstones, all of which are in that formula that I mentioned earlier from Evergreen herbs. This is what I mean by a limited understanding of herbalism. Reminds me of how everybody jumped on the " horny goat weed " (yin yang huo) band-wagon based solely on its name and nobody knew of other Kidney yang tonics that make more sense to help the libido for many people. As for the efficacy of her tinctures I can't say. They may be okay in this regard. However, I have some doubts as she's mostly selling things that have significant marketing power, such as that cure-all answer to everybody's problems - the magical " liver cleanse " . I'm not a big fan of that, personally. The formula ingredients that you list below are okay together, but like I say, overall, I'm not too impressed by this herb resource. I hope that she realizes that some herbs' active ingredients MUST be decocted in water as they can't be leeched out of the herb in alcohol for tinctures. -al. On Feb 4, 2008 8:36 AM, Nancy S+13 <nancy wrote: > Related to this topic, I was curious if anyone was familiar with the > herbal tinctures sold by Julia Chang at http://www.sensiblehealth.com/? > If so, what do you think of them? Is the combination of coptis, > curcuma, bupleurum, lysimachia and Chinese gentian sound as far as TCM > principles? > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Are these particular herbs okay in alcohol? They seem to be the only ones she sells. Al Stone wrote: > > Julia Chang is a chemist of some sort, not TCM trained (other than her > family's traditions, I guess). > > The authors whom she quotes are from very old TCM books that were > among the > very first in English, but they don't represent a very enlightened > level of > TCM herbalism. That being said, her statements online are generally > correct, > but her depth of knowledge is not there even though she's gone to the > trouble of looking up some key diseases in her books (and is a reasonably > clear writer herself.) > > Incidentally, that Gold Coin Grass that she's so in love with is " jin qian > cao " one of many herbs that are good for gallstones, all of which are in > that formula that I mentioned earlier from Evergreen herbs. This is what I > mean by a limited understanding of herbalism. Reminds me of how everybody > jumped on the " horny goat weed " (yin yang huo) band-wagon based solely on > its name and nobody knew of other Kidney yang tonics that make more > sense to > help the libido for many people. > > As for the efficacy of her tinctures I can't say. They may be okay in this > regard. However, I have some doubts as she's mostly selling things > that have > significant marketing power, such as that cure-all answer to everybody's > problems - the magical " liver cleanse " . I'm not a big fan of that, > personally. > > The formula ingredients that you list below are okay together, but like I > say, overall, I'm not too impressed by this herb resource. I hope that she > realizes that some herbs' active ingredients MUST be decocted in water as > they can't be leeched out of the herb in alcohol for tinctures. > > -al. > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:36 AM, Nancy S+13 <nancy > <nancy%40schimelpfening.net>> wrote: > > > Related to this topic, I was curious if anyone was familiar with the > > herbal tinctures sold by Julia Chang at > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/? <http://www.sensiblehealth.com/?> > > If so, what do you think of them? Is the combination of coptis, > > curcuma, bupleurum, lysimachia and Chinese gentian sound as far as TCM > > principles? > > > > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Al Stone " <al wrote: > > I hope that she > realizes that some herbs' active ingredients MUST be decocted in water as > they can't be leeched out of the herb in alcohol for tinctures. I just wanted to emphasize this for the students on the list. Only some herbs are suitable for alcohol tinctures. Some need water or some other medium to best release their active ingredients. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Geeze what a typo " now " overweight - I meant " not " ... my pulse is faint and slow. Blood pressure is usually like 90/60 - when I work out it tends to be higher. Thank you so much! I have an acupuncturist in Orlando... so next week i am going to make the long trek into the big city. He revels in making nasty tea concoctions *chuckles*. I love him though - has that irreplaceable Chinese sense of humor. Warm regards, Lexi Al Stone <al wrote: Hi Lexi, There are a few formulas for gallstones (and Kidney stones too) that can be used. They're supposed to favor " damp heat " as an environment but given the few signs and symptoms you've mentioned, nothing really stands out as damp heat to me, though it may still be there in signs that you wouldn't otherwise notice, such as your pulse qualities. Formulas for kidney stones seem to be easier to find than those for gallstones. The only one that comes out and says that its for gallstones is a proprietary formula put together by Evergreen herbs. This formula could be replicated, knowing the ingredients, but a lot of practitioners can get Evergreen products for you, if you're interested. Here are the ingredients and their explanations: Long Dan Cao (Radix Gentianae) enters the Liver and the Gallbladder to clear damp-heat. Yin Chen Hao (Herba Artemisiae Scopariae), an empirical herb for treating hepatic and gallbladder disorders, has a cholagogic function that increases the secretion of bile and the excretion of bile salt and bilirubin. It also lowers serum cholesterol and beta-lipoprotein. Jin Qian Cao (Herba Lysimachiae) dissolves gallstones and increases the secretion of bile by the liver cells. Wei Ling Xian (Radix Clematidis) unblocks the channels and helps to dissolve stones. Li Zhi He (Semen Litchi) relieves abdominal and epigastric pain due to Liver qi constraint. Zhi Ke (Fructus Aurantii) unblocks qi obstruction and facilitates the passage of gallstones. Hai Jin Sha (Herba Lygodii) transforms hardness and dissolves stones. Da Huang (Radix et Rhizoma Rhei) lowers cholesterol and eliminates damp-heat accumulation by its purgative action. So, while this formula may apply to your stones, it would be wise to address the background environment giving rise to this problem, once your current issue is addressed. While there seems to be nothing wrong with you at first pass, we all have some sort of weak link that is beneath the surface of the usual signs and symptoms that we notice. So, while you think you're in pretty good health, there's obviously some pathological process taking place behind the scenes that could and should be addressed eventually. -al. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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