Spleen Damp/Large Intestine dampness, stuffy nose - my visit to the TCM today.

[Guest guest]

I just got back from the TCM,

 

I showed my letter from Al Stone to the TCM and he agreed with his diagnoses. He

agreed

too with Large Intestine (LI) being most active between 5 - 7 in the morning.

Thanks Al.

 

The TCM also showed me on my toungue where four of my teeth were making

indents on my tongue, which means spleen/Li dampness.

 

He also showed me where in the past he placed the needles for my acupuncture in

the hand and other

places that coincide with the LI. This was to treat LI dampness. Instead of

waiting till the summer

to work on my sinuses via acupuncture he will now give me a tea ( I think he

thought I wouldn't like the

taste and therefore never suggested it before). He isn't going to give me Po

Chai pills like you suggested Al. I'm not sure why, but I think (his English

isn't the best), he fills this is as good as Po Chai. He let me write down the

name. It is called " Powder of Five Drugs - Containing Poria " this came from his

Chinese Herbal book he showed me. It has Poria, Polyporous umbrella, Rhizoma

Atra., Rhizoma Aleamtos, Ramulus Cinnomomi.

He added something else to as an additive to work with this to aid the stuffy

nose. Anyhow I boil this tea and take 1 cup at night and 1 in the morning.

 

There is six days worth. For those that are suffering from sinus and digestive

problems like me I will post the resuts and let you know how it worked. I'm

keeping my fingers crossed.

 

Take care.

 

Rick or as my TCM calls me Lick.

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Feb 1, 2008 4:16 PM, Rick Brown <bigskyagency wrote:

 

> I'm not sure why, but I think (his English isn't the best), he fills

> this is as good as Po Chai.

>

 

 

 

 

That's perfectly fine. I can't see you, or really know what's going on as

well as someone who sees you in person.

 

 

> He let me write down the name. It is called " Powder of Five Drugs -

> Containing Poria " this came from his Chinese Herbal book he showed me. It

> has Poria, Polyporous umbrella, Rhizoma Atra., Rhizoma Aleamtos, Ramulus

> Cinnomomi.

> He added something else to as an additive to work with this to aid the

> stuffy nose. Anyhow I boil this tea and take 1 cup at night and 1 in the

> morning.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very good. Yes, this formula is called Wu Ling San in Chinese. This formula

assumes dampness, but in a slightly different environment. He doesn't see

food stagnation (treated by Po Chai pills), so that's fine. You may not have

food stagnation. But we agree on the dampness, and so this formula will help

excrete some of it out through the urine. Enjoy the cinnamon twig in there.

Tastes good.

 

Rick or as my TCM calls me Lick.

>

 

 

 

Best of luck to you,

 

-Ar.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Rick Brown "

<bigskyagency wrote:

>

> The TCM also showed me on my toungue where four of my teeth were

making

> indents on my tongue, which means spleen/Li dampness.

>

> He also showed me where in the past he placed the needles for my

acupuncture in the hand and other

> places that coincide with the LI.

 

Etc.

 

Healers who take the time to explain things like this to interested

clients are jewels. They also frequently end up doing a lot more than

just treating a single client. Clients who get this kind of info

frequently end up developing a basic proficiency in TCM. They're also

in a better condition to explain to others who may be skeptical of

consulting a TCM healer why using TCM may help.

 

In my own case, I saw an herbalist (Christopher Gussa) who took the

time to explain things to me and answered questions. One of the

things that grew out of him doing that is this group, Chinese Traditional Medicine.

I originally started CH to teach the basics of TCM to relatives and

friends in another part of the US. But it also was open to others

from the beginning. My reasoning was had I known about TCM and its

basics before I did, I would have sought out a TCM healer before I

did and would not have gotten as sick as I did. One of the things

that most floored me about TCM is that even if I had not been able to

find a TCM healer where I lived, if I had known the basics, there was

a substance sold in supermaket spice sections and in some produce

sections that in all likelihood would have prevented me at least from

getting as sick as I got. Ginger. (I had some severe Cold problems.)

 

Healers, not every client will want you to explain things to them -

no more than they want an allopathic healer to explain anatomy and

physiology to them. In fact, most won't. But taking the time to

explain things to the few who do can have more positive effects than

just helping a single individual to heal. You also tend to get better

compliance from the question askers than from those who don't want to

know. Espeically when their questions are answered. But that's true

of about every type of healing.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

Amen, Victoria.

-

victoria_dragon

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Saturday, February 02, 2008 6:21 AM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Spleen Damp/Large Intestine dampness, stuffy

nose - my visit to the TCM today.

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Rick Brown "

<bigskyagency wrote:

>

> The TCM also showed me on my toungue where four of my teeth were

making

> indents on my tongue, which means spleen/Li dampness.

>

> He also showed me where in the past he placed the needles for my

acupuncture in the hand and other

> places that coincide with the LI.

 

Etc.

 

Healers who take the time to explain things like this to interested

clients are jewels. They also frequently end up doing a lot more than

just treating a single client. Clients who get this kind of info

frequently end up developing a basic proficiency in TCM. They're also

in a better condition to explain to others who may be skeptical of

consulting a TCM healer why using TCM may help.

 

In my own case, I saw an herbalist (Christopher Gussa) who took the

time to explain things to me and answered questions. One of the

things that grew out of him doing that is this group, Chinese Traditional Medicine.

I originally started CH to teach the basics of TCM to relatives and

friends in another part of the US. But it also was open to others

from the beginning. My reasoning was had I known about TCM and its

basics before I did, I would have sought out a TCM healer before I

did and would not have gotten as sick as I did. One of the things

that most floored me about TCM is that even if I had not been able to

find a TCM healer where I lived, if I had known the basics, there was

a substance sold in supermaket spice sections and in some produce

sections that in all likelihood would have prevented me at least from

getting as sick as I got. Ginger. (I had some severe Cold problems.)

 

Healers, not every client will want you to explain things to them -

no more than they want an allopathic healer to explain anatomy and

physiology to them. In fact, most won't. But taking the time to

explain things to the few who do can have more positive effects than

just helping a single individual to heal. You also tend to get better

compliance from the question askers than from those who don't want to

know. Espeically when their questions are answered. But that's true

of about every type of healing.

 

Victoria

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This is fascinating Al. I think in another life, I would like to practice

studying TCM.

 

I'm glad you brought up the fact that food stagnation was not part of his

current

diagnosis. I have 3 tea bags. I am to take those and then report back. I

personally

fee food stagnation is a cause of some of this and will mention it to him if

these 3

teas don't work.

 

You say I will urinate this dampness out. What exactly am I excreting? Just out

of curiosity.

 

The tea is pretty spectacular. It smells good but doesn't taste that good. It's

not terrible anyhow.

But there looks like there is a big chunk of charcoal, tree bark (white),

something that looks like

pussy willow, and then these twigs. It is quite a concoction and I can't wait

for tonight's.

 

He said to drink one in the morning and one at night, he never mentioned before

or after a meal, I assume

it must not matter.

 

Wow, TCM is a fascinating world.

 

Lick

 

 

 

 

-

Al Stone

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Friday, February 01, 2008 6:15 PM

Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Spleen Damp/Large Intestine dampness, stuffy

nose - my visit to the TCM today.

 

 

On Feb 1, 2008 4:16 PM, Rick Brown <bigskyagency wrote:

 

> I'm not sure why, but I think (his English isn't the best), he fills

> this is as good as Po Chai.

>

 

That's perfectly fine. I can't see you, or really know what's going on as

well as someone who sees you in person.

 

> He let me write down the name. It is called " Powder of Five Drugs -

> Containing Poria " this came from his Chinese Herbal book he showed me. It

> has Poria, Polyporous umbrella, Rhizoma Atra., Rhizoma Aleamtos, Ramulus

> Cinnomomi.

> He added something else to as an additive to work with this to aid the

> stuffy nose. Anyhow I boil this tea and take 1 cup at night and 1 in the

> morning.

>

 

Very good. Yes, this formula is called Wu Ling San in Chinese. This formula

assumes dampness, but in a slightly different environment. He doesn't see

food stagnation (treated by Po Chai pills), so that's fine. You may not have

food stagnation. But we agree on the dampness, and so this formula will help

excrete some of it out through the urine. Enjoy the cinnamon twig in there.

Tastes good.

 

Rick or as my TCM calls me Lick.

>

 

Best of luck to you,

 

-Ar.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

[Guest guest]

Victoria,

 

I had to laugh - i think this may be true about everything in life

 

 

Lexi

 

 

 

Healers, not every client will want you to explain things to them -

no more than they want an allopathic healer to explain anatomy and

physiology to them. In fact, most won't. But taking the time to

explain things to the few who do can have more positive effects than

just helping a single individual to heal. You also tend to get better

compliance from the question askers than from those who don't want to

know. Espeically when their questions are answered. But that's true

of about every type of healing.

 

Victoria

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Al,

 

I too seem to be suffering from extreme stuffy nose specially at

night due to disgestion problems.

 

At first I tgought it was allergy, took all kind of allergy

medicine, even allergy shots for several months.

 

The only digestion symptoms I have is reflux, but it is not acidic

since I don't feel any burning. I just feel like the food is coming

backup up ....

 

I have read this thread and took a vial of po chai pills the past

couple of days. I felt great improvement.

 

The questions I have are:

 

1. Will the po chai pills actually cure whatever I have? I have been

having this problem for several years. What is actually causing the

dampness or stagnation or both...? How do I make it stop?

 

2. Do I need to take po chai forever? Is there any long term danger?

 

3. How much po chai do I take every day? What is the best time to

take it?

 

Thank you in advance for your response.

 

mike

 

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Al Stone " <al wrote:

>

> On Feb 1, 2008 4:16 PM, Rick Brown <bigskyagency wrote:

>

> > I'm not sure why, but I think (his English isn't the best), he

fills

> > this is as good as Po Chai.

> >

>

>

>

>

> That's perfectly fine. I can't see you, or really know what's

going on as

> well as someone who sees you in person.

>

>

> > He let me write down the name. It is called " Powder of Five

Drugs -

> > Containing Poria " this came from his Chinese Herbal book he

showed me. It

> > has Poria, Polyporous umbrella, Rhizoma Atra., Rhizoma Aleamtos,

Ramulus

> > Cinnomomi.

> > He added something else to as an additive to work with this to

aid the

> > stuffy nose. Anyhow I boil this tea and take 1 cup at night and

1 in the

> > morning.

> >

>

>

Very good. Yes, this formula is called Wu Ling San in Chinese.

This formula

> assumes dampness, but in a slightly different environment. He

doesn't see

> food stagnation (treated by Po Chai pills), so that's fine. You

may not have

> food stagnation. But we agree on the dampness, and so this formula

will help

> excrete some of it out through the urine. Enjoy the cinnamon twig

in there.

> Tastes good.

>

> Rick or as my TCM calls me Lick.

> >

>

>

>

> Best of luck to you,

>

> -Ar.

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hiya Mike,

 

So, to catch everybody up here. One cause for rhinitis (nasal inflammation

resulting in runny or stuffy nose) is the production of dampness in the

" yang ming " organs which includes the Stomach and Large Intestine. While

we're conditioned to think of the Stomach and Large Intestine as separate

entities, in TCM, they're really two ends of the same tube. Anatomically,

this is consistent with the biomedical understanding of these structures as

well.

 

The Large Intestine channel traverses the nostrils and is said to contribute

to *some cases* of " allergic rhinitis " . (Never forget that " some cases "

qualifier. Nothing applies to everybody.) So, when there is any

damp-producing disharmony in the Stomach and/or Large Intestine, this

dampness can enter the Large Intestine channel, travel upwards to the nose

and spill out as excessive mucus production.

 

Food stagnation is one of the causes for dampness in the Stomach and/or

Large Intestine. Food stagnation, put simply is slowed peristalsis (downward

squeezing action of the stomach and intestines) due to any or all of the

following causes:

 

 

- food that is too difficult to digest for the person (varies from

individual to individual)

- digestive energy that is too weak to process food (Spleen qi

deficiency)

- Liver qi stagnation which prevents the Yang Ming qi from desending as

it is supposed to

 

 

There are a few other reasons too such as internal cold, but the above three

causes make up the lion's share of usual suspects in my experience, patient

populations and practitioner perceptions may vary.

 

I have in the past suggested people get some " po chai " pills for food

stagnation leading to acid reflux or this rhinitis with digestive symptoms.

 

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:55 PM, m2001smith <m2001smith wrote:

 

> The questions I have are:

>

> 1. Will the po chai pills actually cure whatever I have? I have been

> having this problem for several years. What is actually causing the

> dampness or stagnation or both...? How do I make it stop?

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've listed three causes for food stagnation above. When you address those,

you'll be better off. Determining which of those are affecting you the most

is the outcome of the diagnostic process.

 

Boldly speaking, food stagnation due to overeating will be aggravated by

overeating. So, if your nose is more runny or you cough up excessive phlegm

after a big meal, then eat less, or eat foods that are easier to digest.

There are many on this who are up to speed on dietary choices. I'll leave it

to them to fill in those blanks.

 

In the case of food stagnation due to Spleen qi deficiency you should see

other Spleen qi deficiency signs and symptoms such as easy bruising, lack of

appetite, lack of taste sensitivity, tongue with teeth indentations, loose

stools, and acupuncturists chasing you with herbs such as ginseng. Also, if

your acid reflux is positional, meaning that it is only a problem when

you're horizantal, that would direct me toward Spleen qi deficiency as

expressed as lack of muscle tone or gastric sphyncter weakness.

 

Food stagnation due to Liver qi stagnation will be aggravated by stress,

emotions (could be " good " emotions too), or if you have indoor plumbing -

your menstrual cycle (usually a PMS thing, not a post flow issue).

 

Making them stop is a chapter unto itself. Try searching through the list

archives for more on that.

 

2. Do I need to take po chai forever? Is there any long term danger?

>

 

 

 

If the cause for your food stagnation is never addressed, you'll have to

continue to take the pills. They're mostly treating symptoms. There are some

herbs in there that are considered to treat the root (depending on the root,

three usual causes, see above) but the dosages of those root treating herbs

is very small. I wouldn't think that its going to make much of a long-term

difference. However, some people are really sensitive and I won't rule out a

curative effect of Po Chai pills either.

 

Long term danger, if the pills are unadulterated, you're probably okay to

take them long-term.

 

As we see in the news, there are some quality control issues in China and

people hoping to make a quick buck can mess with the raw materials. I have

not heard of this issue affecting Po Chai pills. Some of those pre-made

pills from China have been found to include drugs or toxic heavy metals (I

believe that would be due to shoddy manufacturing, but can also include some

herbs that are naturally toxic such as cinnabar (zhu sha))

 

I don't know of any issues regarding the ingredients, themselves. I believe

that in Canada, there is some reluctance to give tian hua fen (Trichosanthes

Root) to children, but TCMers have defended against that inclusion on

Canada's watch list saying that it was based on faulty information and

misunderstanding of Chinese herbs. That seems quite likely. I don't recall

the particulars on that issue.

 

Still, if you're taking anything for a long time, consider a (biomedical)

liver function blood test every now and then. For my patients on custom

formulas with really significant dosages, I encourage them to have a blood

test for liver enzymes once every six months. They don't often do that, but

I tell them too, just in case. Some might suggest (operating from a worst

case scenario stance) kidney function tests too. If you've got the time and

money, I don't think that it can hurt to keep an eye on things. I don't

think that Chinese herbs are especially dangerous, but exporters and

manufacturing conditions can add some variables to the mix that may be worth

monitoring.

 

3. How much po chai do I take every day? What is the best time to

> take it?

>

>

 

 

 

 

The box that I have says that the dosage is 2 vials (of tiny pills). I weigh

160 lbs. and I take one vile when I need it. So, you can decide how much you

need, mostly by its effect on your symptoms. Take 1 or 2 vials after each

meal.

 

I suggest you take Po Chai an hour after a meal. The goal of the formula is

to push down the food, help the Stomach digest, and otherwise clean up the

dampness left in the wake of the food stagnation.

 

Happy digesting!

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.