Herbs for indigestion and perimenopause

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I'm currently going through perimenopause.

 

I stopped seeing my old Chinese acupuncturist because his practice

got very successful and he stopped listening to me like he used to

when I was one of his very few, first patients. He just wasn't

getting it.

 

I switched about a year ago to one a friend of mine recommended. She

was also Chinese, and I liked her as a person, but she was extremely

aggressive with the needles. She'd put a needle directly into my

nerve " to help you sleep " that almost had me jump off the table. I

told her not to do it again, and she did it the next visit, so I

never went back. She was really aggressive with the other needles,

too.

 

I was going to try a third, but her house/office smelled bad, was

dark and gloomy, and she left me in the middle of my appointment time

to take someone else who showed up unscheduled, so I got up and left

(we were having our initial consultation).

 

So, I have zero, and I do mean zero intentions of going back to

acupuncture. I am so turned off by the whole experience.

 

The second one, however, had me take Xiao Yao Wan during the day, and

Te Xiao Zao Ren An Mian Wan at night before bed. They did help. I

eventually stopped taking them. She did understand what I was

telling her right away, so I was willing to do anything she said

except allow myself to be in pain like that.

 

She'd told me I needed to eat more " warm " foods, so I made a point of

drinking ginger tea and cutting back on eating soy ice cream. I am a

vegan, so I eat a pretty good diet and take supplements for calcium

and B12, as well as a good multi.

 

The problem I've been unable to shake is the lack of sleep I'm having

from belching early in the morning. Doesn't matter what I eat, I can

wake up anywhere from 1 am to 4 am and begin belching to where I

can't fall back to sleep. It's frustrating, and drags me down

emotionally, physically, and mentally.

 

For my perimenopause symptoms, I'm taking a supplement containing

Chai Hu and Wu Wei Zi. It seems to help.

 

I tried the Hcl test, but both the acid/alkaline tests made no

difference in the belching, so I don't know if it's that or not.

 

I have no insurance and really don't like or trust Western medicine.

It's been Chinese healing that has helped, although it was when my

first acupuncturist actually bothered to pay attention to me and not

treat me like I was on an assembly line.

 

If anyone has any advice on what to do next (no, I'm not going back

for more acupuncture, so it needs to be dietary and/or herbal), I'd

be grateful.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Charlotte

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlotte

 

If you are based in the UK then check out the Register of Chinese

Herbal Medicine where there is a list of approved practitioners.

 

http://www.rchm.co.uk/

 

I suggest that you will still need a proper diagnosis.

 

regards

Norman

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " chfitzwilliam "

<chfitzwilliam wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> I'm currently going through perimenopause.

>

> I stopped seeing my old Chinese acupuncturist because his practice

> got very successful and he stopped listening to me like he used to

> when I was one of his very few, first patients. He just wasn't

> getting it.

>

> I switched about a year ago to one a friend of mine recommended. She

> was also Chinese, and I liked her as a person, but she was extremely

> aggressive with the needles. She'd put a needle directly into my

> nerve " to help you sleep " that almost had me jump off the table. I

> told her not to do it again, and she did it the next visit, so I

> never went back. She was really aggressive with the other needles,

> too.

>

> I was going to try a third, but her house/office smelled bad, was

> dark and gloomy, and she left me in the middle of my appointment time

> to take someone else who showed up unscheduled, so I got up and left

> (we were having our initial consultation).

>

> So, I have zero, and I do mean zero intentions of going back to

> acupuncture. I am so turned off by the whole experience.

>

> The second one, however, had me take Xiao Yao Wan during the day, and

> Te Xiao Zao Ren An Mian Wan at night before bed. They did help. I

> eventually stopped taking them. She did understand what I was

> telling her right away, so I was willing to do anything she said

> except allow myself to be in pain like that.

>

> She'd told me I needed to eat more " warm " foods, so I made a point of

> drinking ginger tea and cutting back on eating soy ice cream. I am a

> vegan, so I eat a pretty good diet and take supplements for calcium

> and B12, as well as a good multi.

>

> The problem I've been unable to shake is the lack of sleep I'm having

> from belching early in the morning. Doesn't matter what I eat, I can

> wake up anywhere from 1 am to 4 am and begin belching to where I

> can't fall back to sleep. It's frustrating, and drags me down

> emotionally, physically, and mentally.

>

> For my perimenopause symptoms, I'm taking a supplement containing

> Chai Hu and Wu Wei Zi. It seems to help.

>

> I tried the Hcl test, but both the acid/alkaline tests made no

> difference in the belching, so I don't know if it's that or not.

>

> I have no insurance and really don't like or trust Western medicine.

> It's been Chinese healing that has helped, although it was when my

> first acupuncturist actually bothered to pay attention to me and not

> treat me like I was on an assembly line.

>

> If anyone has any advice on what to do next (no, I'm not going back

> for more acupuncture, so it needs to be dietary and/or herbal), I'd

> be grateful.

>

> Thank you in advance.

>

> Charlotte

>

[Guest guest]

On Jan 15, 2008 9:42 AM, chfitzwilliam <chfitzwilliam wrote:

 

> my old Chinese acupuncturist [...] stopped listening to me...

>

> I told her not to do it again (aggressive needling), and she did it the

> next visit, so I never went back...

>

her house/office smelled bad, was

> dark and gloomy, and she left me in the middle of my appointment time

> to take someone else who showed up unscheduled, so I got up and left

> (we were having our initial consultation).

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Truly unfortunate in all three scenarios, however the acupuncturist who " hit

a nerve " is likely the least guilty of doing anything wrong. Generating a

strong sensation is not uncommon with acupuncture, though many

acupuncturists do take the comfort of the patient seriously, and if that is

not done, then they're going to lose patients such as you.

 

In China and Korea, their default setting is " no pain, no gain " . In the West

it is " too much pain, no patients " . The acupuncturist who understands that

will not generate complaints such as yours. Still, I think that the problem

of sensation is not as compelling as feeling understood by your practitioner

as to your sensitivity to the needles (which I share!).

 

 

The problem I've been unable to shake is the lack of sleep I'm having

> from belching early in the morning. Doesn't matter what I eat, I can

> wake up anywhere from 1 am to 4 am and begin belching to where I

> can't fall back to sleep. It's frustrating, and drags me down

> emotionally, physically, and mentally.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, let's talk about your belching. Here are a few options, tell us which

applies to you and that will direct the diagnosis.

 

 

- loud or soft in volume?

- Strong odor/taste, or mostly air?

- any fluids coming up at the same time? Is there a bitter taste?

 

I'm half way expecting this to be a qi stagnation issue. While most TCM

types apply different time periods to that 24 hour / 12 channel circadian

clock (where each channel/organ gets a 2 hour span) there is another way to

break up the 24 hours. It is based on the Shang Han Lun. This way of looking

at the time periods of the day holds more water for me because it has an

intuitive reality that I can relate with.

 

To make a long story short, the period of 1 to 4 am is dominated by the Shao

Yang. This is associated with the Gallbladder organ who is " married " to the

Liver. Between the Liver and Gallbladder, qi can stagnate and when this

happens, the downward directionality of the Stomach is compromised and hence

gives rise to nausea, acid reflux, and/or belching (medical term:

eructation).

 

But answer the questions above and we can better nail this down for you,

without all that nasty discomfort or lack of customer service found among

the acupuncturists in your area.

 

-al.

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi AHi al,

>

 

This is intersting, I never knew Shang Han Lun had its own time periods,

Where can I find more information about this in modern clinical texts? or

does it only appear in the Shang Han Lun?

 

Thanks

Guy Sedan

 

 

there is another way to

> break up the 24 hours. It is based on the Shang Han Lun. This way of

> looking

> at the time periods of the day holds more water for me because it has an

> intuitive reality that I can relate with.

>

> To make a long story short, the period of 1 to 4 am is dominated by the

> Shao

> Yang. This is associated with the Gallbladder organ who is " married " to

> the

> Liver. Between the Liver and Gallbladder, qi can stagnate and when this

> happens, the downward directionality of the Stomach is compromised and

> hence

> gives rise to nausea, acid reflux, and/or belching (medical term:

> eructation).

>

> But answer the questions above and we can better nail this down for you,

> without all that nasty discomfort or lack of customer service found among

> the acupuncturists in your area.

>

> -al.

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Jan 16, 2008 11:49 AM, Guy Sedan <guysedan wrote:

 

> >

> > Hi AHi al,

> >

>

> This is intersting, I never knew Shang Han Lun had its own time periods,

> Where can I find more information about this in modern clinical texts? or

> does it only appear in the Shang Han Lun?

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It originally appeared in the Shang Han Lun, but also in Chinese-language

commentaries on the Shang Han Lun.

 

You can find it in the SHL. I've found it, but looking just now, I

couldn't. It's in a series of lines that talk about when a tai yang illness

will resolve, when a shao yang illness will get worse. Something like that.

 

Because jue yin is " terminal yin " it is associated with the " wee hours " of

the night, when it is the most dark, and about to transform into yang/day.

The first portion of the day is, not surprisingly, the shao yang time.

Little yang becomes big yang at noon, and then yang ming in the afternoon...

 

These are not set in stone, but when you're diagnosing, breaking the day up

into six time periods can help break your diagnostic ties.

 

-al.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Guy Sedan " <guysedan wrote:

>

> This is intersting, I never knew Shang Han Lun had its own time

periods,

> Where can I find more information about this in modern clinical

texts? or

> does it only appear in the Shang Han Lun?

 

It doesn't happen often but sometimes treatment will only work if it's

administered at a certain time of day.

 

Western allopathic medicine is just starting to catch on the the fact

that some drugs will have a stronger effect if administered during

certain times of the day.

 

Whenever a person has the same problem(s) at roughly the same time

every day, suspect that there may be problems in the meridian which is

most active at that time. Also in the corresponding Organ.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

On Jan 16, 2008 11:49 AM, Guy Sedan <guysedan wrote:

 

> This is intersting, I never knew Shang Han Lun had its own time periods,

> Where can I find more information about this in modern clinical texts? or

> does it only appear in the Shang Han Lun?

>

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I didn't really answer your question. I don't know of any modern

texts that describe this six channel approach to " chrono-therapeutics " . Like

I say, there are oodles of Chinese commentaries on the Shang Han Lun, when

we begin to see those translated into English, that will change, I guess.

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the reply.

I do this in the clinic insomnia cases in which liver related problems

appear up to 4 am rather than the conventional 1-3 AM. This is why I find

that the SHL time periods shed a new light and these cases.

Thanks

Guy

 

 

 

 

2008/1/17, Al Stone <al:

>

> On Jan 16, 2008 11:49 AM, Guy Sedan

<guysedan<guysedan%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > This is intersting, I never knew Shang Han Lun had its own time periods,

> > Where can I find more information about this in modern clinical texts?

> or

> > does it only appear in the Shang Han Lun?

> >

>

> I'm sorry, I didn't really answer your question. I don't know of any

> modern

> texts that describe this six channel approach to " chrono-therapeutics " .

> Like

> I say, there are oodles of Chinese commentaries on the Shang Han Lun, when

> we begin to see those translated into English, that will change, I guess.

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, this is something I do too. I favor Suan Zao Ren Tang when the

insomnia isn't about falling asleep, but staying asleep in the early morning

hours though I'm not too locked in to the actual hours. I also find that

people who awaken early and are unable to fall back asleep are planning

their day or thinking about things that they have to do. Planning=Liver.

 

On Jan 17, 2008 9:29 PM, Guy Sedan <guysedan wrote:

 

> Thank you for the reply.

> I do this in the clinic insomnia cases in which liver related problems

> appear up to 4 am rather than the conventional 1-3 AM. This is why I find

> that the SHL time periods shed a new light and these cases.

> Thanks

> Guy

> _

>

 

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Al,

 

I do remember the acupuncturist who was way too aggressive with the needles

tell me one of my organs was attacking the other. I can't remember if it was my

spleen.

 

You asked:

Okay, let's talk about your belching. Here are a few options, tell us which

applies to you and that will direct the diagnosis.

 

- loud or soft in volume?

- Strong odor/taste, or mostly air?

- any fluids coming up at the same time? Is there a bitter taste?

 

I'm half way expecting this to be a qi stagnation issue. While most TCM

types apply different time periods to that 24 hour / 12 channel circadian

 

Mostly air, and usually loud in volume (when I'm alone, that is). There are

no fluids coming up at the same time. I can notice a bitter taste, but not

usually. I was having some problems with a taste and/or small " pellets " of

really foul tasting things, almost like something not digested yet. When I

began taking more warming foods, that stopped.

I notice, too, that I really don't belch as much after I get up and have eaten

something.

When I do belch, I often taste my last meal (and yes, I take digestive

enzymes), whether or not it was two hours or twelve hours ago.

 

I've had some liver problems, and I've had shiatsu massage, which she

mentioned showed some liver blockage, but this was in the summer of '05. My

reflexologist hasn't noticed any problems with my liver or spleen as much as

with my adrenals. I have had occasional (about a year ago) comments from the

reflexologist about my gallbladder/liver being out of whack, but not lately.

 

I can't figure out if my emotions are up because I'm so tired or vice versa.

I am in therapy, and have been for almost two years. I know the body must be

treated as a whole as opposed to separate entities, which is why I believe in

Chinese medicine.

 

I just want to know what to do next. I've been going through hell and back

trying to figure out what's going on, and my social life is really suffering

because I'm using my energy to go to work and come home and the bare necessities

and that's it. I'm miserable as a result. I fall into bed, sleep like I'm

dead, but it's like I'm spinning a roulette wheel as to how much sleep I'm gonna

get.

 

Ask any further questions you need to and I'm extremely grateful for any

advice.

 

Charlotte

 

 

 

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Jan 18, 2008 10:43 AM, Charlotte Fitzwilliam <chfitzwilliam

wrote:

 

> Hi Al,

>

> I do remember the acupuncturist who was way too aggressive with the

> needles tell me one of my organs was attacking the other. I can't remember

> if it was my spleen.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the TCM community, when you hear about the word " attacking " it is likely

the Liver attacking the Spleen. This is common and pretty much what I'd

expected in your case, though because the problem is effecting your Stomach

more than the Spleen (that I can tell) it may be better to call this " Liver

attacking Stomach " .

 

 

>

>

> You asked:

>

> Okay, let's talk about your belching.

>

> - loud or soft in volume?

> - Strong odor/taste, or mostly air?

> - any fluids coming up at the same time? Is there a bitter taste?

>

> Mostly air, and usually loud in volume (when I'm alone, that is).

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mostly air means qi stagnation. Loud in volume means excess. Qi stagnation

is often excessive in nature, usually in fact.

 

>

> When I do belch, I often taste my last meal (and yes, I take digestive

> enzymes), whether or not it was two hours or twelve hours ago.

>

 

 

 

 

This may be nothing or indicate some food stagnation going on as well, which

is a common outcome of qi stagnation in the Stomach.

 

>

>

>

> I've had some liver problems

>

 

 

 

 

 

Gotcha.

 

 

> I can't figure out if my emotions are up because I'm so tired or vice

> versa. I am in therapy, and have been for almost two years. I know the body

> must be treated as a whole as opposed to separate entities, which is why I

> believe in Chinese medicine.

>

 

 

 

 

 

It really isn't rocket science. Intestinal peristalsis (the downward

squeezing action of the Stomach and intestines) relies on parasympathetic

nervous activity. What that means is that you need to be relaxed to properly

digest your food. If you're not, then the food just sits there, or in your

case, actually goes backwards a bit. Fortunately it is only air, not the

food itself. So you could say this is stress-induced.

 

 

I just want to know what to do next. I've been going through hell and back

> trying to figure out what's going on, and my social life is really suffering

> because I'm using my energy to go to work and come home and the bare

> necessities and that's it. I'm miserable as a result. I fall into bed, sleep

> like I'm dead, but it's like I'm spinning a roulette wheel as to how much

> sleep I'm gonna get.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the acupunture ain't doing it for you, look in to some herbal medicines.

The one that comes to mind that might do the trick for you is called " Shu

Gan Wan " . That translates to " Relax the Liver Pills " . A commonly found

formula called " xiao yao san " is not a bad substitute for you too.

 

Initially, after reading your first post, it appeared that the key issue

here was waking up and burping at night. Now I'm hearing that fatigue is the

issue. Well, let's get your Liver, Spleen, and Stomach playing well together

and perhaps you'll be able to sleep better and get more nutritive qi out of

your food, leading to more energy...

 

I'm also a big fan of meditation. Pick a method and do it a few times per

day. I prefer the methods that bring-you-back-here-and-now. There are other

methods that take-you-somewhere-else. Those are nice, but I find that the

first kind begin to overwrite the brain to stay in the moment which is

generally a calming influence.

 

-al.

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello again,

 

I really paid attention to the burping I did over the past couple of

days.

 

They are very loud, no taste (they taste occasionally--I can't figure

out when), and from the very base of my abdomen.

 

Usually they happen when my stomach is emptier rather than full, but I

had a soy protein smoothie with lots of fresh pineapple and it kicked

in.

 

Once again, thanks for your help.

 

Charlotte

[Guest guest]

Have you tried doing breathing exercises? Those oft help esp first

thing in the morning.

Also, eating your food (and drink) without distraction, in a relaxing

environment and without talking is helpful as well. Lastly, try not to

breath while you are swallowing, but rather blow out the air just

before, that helps as well.

Tymothy Smith, L.Ac.

 

" chfitzwilliam " <chfitzwilliam wrote:

>

> Hello again,

>

> I really paid attention to the burping I did over the past couple of

> days.

>

> They are very loud, no taste (they taste occasionally--I can't figure

> out when), and from the very base of my abdomen.

>

> Usually they happen when my stomach is emptier rather than full, but I

> had a soy protein smoothie with lots of fresh pineapple and it kicked

> in.

>

> Once again, thanks for your help.

>

> Charlotte

>