Another canine question, also liver related

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I don't post much, but read and try to learn as I'm

very much a beginner in the study of TCM.

 

Mindy is my 9 yo female GSP/Lab mix. She lived her

1st 2 years on a chain, and was then left that way

when the owners moved away and left her. It was a

week before she was found and rescued. I have known

her for 7 years, and had her living with me for 5 1/2

years. She has always displayed lots of anxiety and

aggression towards dogs she doesn't know, as well as 1

particular dog in my home. She has been on a Western

drug for the past 4 years to take the edge off her

anxiety, but I am weaning her off and will substitute

a Western herb for her anxiety.

Her most recent check-up revealed that one of her

liver values (from a blood draw) is nearly 3 times the

highest acceptable reading. The highest is 119, and

hers is 289. She was then tested 2 mos. later and the

same problem. All of her other values in the blood

draw are well within normal ranges. She has also

started vomiting up her evening meal, anywhere from 1

hour after eating or more. I'm not sure if she's

vomiting up her morning meal, as I feed my dogs in the

morning, then leave for work. I have found some spots

on the carpet that indicate someone has thrown up.

 

While reading my " Four Paws " animal TCM book about the

liver, it said often the animal will lick around their

groin to move stagnant qi, which Mindy has licked that

area a lot in the recent past. She is not doing it

now however. Mindy gets cold easily and has lots of

skin irregularities, such as warts, skin tags, etc.

She has grayed very early, but I know some dogs just

do that--don't know if it's related.

 

I know the liver can suffer when there's long periods

of anger, stress, or frustration, which Mindy has had

the entire time I've known her (not the anger I

think--she is very loving and affectionate with

people). Due to my ignorance in handling her

emotional problems, I've mainly been managing them, so

I feel that due to them not being really resolved, she

is now suffering in the form of a liver imbalance. Of

course I worry that if unresolved, this could lead to

liver failure or liver cancer or the like.

 

I can use the acupressure points in the Four Paws

book, but am unsure as to what Chinese herbs to try,

as the cases listed in the book do not really match

Mindy's problem exactly. I have recently started

giving her the Western herb Milk Thistle to support

her liver, as well as some of the vitamins that Cheryl

Schwartz recommends in the Four Paws book.

 

Any recommendations or thoughts anyone?

 

 

 

Tamara

 

" One can be sincere, but still be sincerely wrong. "

-- Irene Spencer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Tamara,

 

It would be nice to know exactly what blood value is high, but presuming

that it indicates a liver problem, I would gravitate toward herbs that lower

liver enzymes (SGOT and SGPT). The one that I like is called Hu Zhang (Rx.

Polygoni Cuspidati). This can be added to your dog's food if you can get it

in powdered extract form.

 

Vomiting + elevated liver enzymes is not an especially good pair of

symptoms. I hope that your vet is checking for tumors too.

 

I have a formula that I've used for dogs with malignant tumors. It is

indicated for early stage situations (unlike Sherry's case which is later

stage). It is basically blood movers and lump reducers. I've used it on four

dogs over the years and in three cases, the owners reported getting three to

four times the amount of time that the vets originally predicted. The fourth

case was late stage and passed away within a month of taking the herbs,

consistent with the vets prognosis, but the other three lived three times

longer than had been expected and with lots of vigor and apparent enjoyment

of life which is very nice to see.

 

I don't want to turn my presence on this list into a series of infomercials,

so I'll include the ingredients here, but I would discourage laypersons from

taking this formula and using it without a cancer diagnosis from a reputable

vet. If your concern is for a human being, don't even think about treating

this without the oversight of someone with an informed opinion.

 

-al.

 

Doggy Tumor Formula:

 

Shan Ci Gu (raw ground) 40 grams raw

Wang Bu Liu Xin 10 grams extract

Chuan Xiong 5 grams extract

Di Long 10 grams extract

Mo Yao 5 grams extract

Ru Xiang 5 grams extract

Hai Zao 10 grams extract

Bei Jie Zi 10 grams extract

 

On Dec 8, 2007 6:41 PM, Tamara <savepawsfurever wrote:

 

> Hi,

>

> I don't post much, but read and try to learn as I'm

> very much a beginner in the study of TCM.

>

> Mindy is my 9 yo female GSP/Lab mix. She lived her

> 1st 2 years on a chain, and was then left that way

> when the owners moved away and left her.

>

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Al,

Thanks so much for your reply and aid. The value that

is so elevated in Mindy's blood draw is

ALT--everything else, including the other liver

measurements in the blood draw, was normal.

 

--- Al Stone <al wrote:

 

> Hi Tamara,

>

> It would be nice to know exactly what blood value is

> high, but presuming

> that it indicates a liver problem, I would gravitate

> toward herbs that lower

> liver enzymes (SGOT and SGPT). The one that I like

> is called Hu Zhang (Rx.

> Polygoni Cuspidati). This can be added to your dog's

> food if you can get it

> in powdered extract form.

>

> Vomiting + elevated liver enzymes is not an

> especially good pair of

> symptoms. I hope that your vet is checking for

> tumors too.

>

> I have a formula that I've used for dogs with

> malignant tumors. It is

> indicated for early stage situations (unlike

> Sherry's case which is later

> stage). It is basically blood movers and lump

> reducers. I've used it on four

> dogs over the years and in three cases, the owners

> reported getting three to

> four times the amount of time that the vets

> originally predicted. The fourth

> case was late stage and passed away within a month

> of taking the herbs,

> consistent with the vets prognosis, but the other

> three lived three times

> longer than had been expected and with lots of vigor

> and apparent enjoyment

> of life which is very nice to see.

>

> I don't want to turn my presence on this list into a

> series of infomercials,

> so I'll include the ingredients here, but I would

> discourage laypersons from

> taking this formula and using it without a cancer

> diagnosis from a reputable

> vet. If your concern is for a human being, don't

> even think about treating

> this without the oversight of someone with an

> informed opinion.

>

> -al.

>

> Doggy Tumor Formula:

>

> Shan Ci Gu (raw ground) 40 grams raw

> Wang Bu Liu Xin 10 grams extract

> Chuan Xiong 5 grams extract

> Di Long 10 grams extract

> Mo Yao 5 grams extract

> Ru Xiang 5 grams extract

> Hai Zao 10 grams extract

> Bei Jie Zi 10 grams extract

>

> On Dec 8, 2007 6:41 PM, Tamara

> <savepawsfurever wrote:

>

> > Hi,

> >

> > I don't post much, but read and try to learn as

> I'm

> > very much a beginner in the study of TCM.

> >

> > Mindy is my 9 yo female GSP/Lab mix. She lived her

> > 1st 2 years on a chain, and was then left that way

> > when the owners moved away and left her.

> >

>

>

> --

> , DAOM

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

Tamara

 

" One can be sincere, but still be sincerely wrong. "

-- Irene Spencer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Since you've listed most of these as extracts, I'm assuming that you're not

cooking raw herbs here. Any particular reason for not using all raw herbs

and then decocting them? Is the Shan Ci Gu being given raw vs. decocted?

How are you dosing this? Once this formula is made, how much is given per

day, (twice/day dosing?) Fortunately, I don't have any need to use this, but

will keep in on file, just in case a dog might need it in the future.

 

BTW, just in case it's of interest, I do cook the raw herbs for one of my

dogs, who has epilepsy. With the combination of gold bead implants and the

herbs, he's only had one seizure. (He was still seizuring after the gold

bead implants, but since adding in the herbs at the end of July, he's just

had one seizure.) And, his very severe separation anxiety is completely gone

with the addition of the herbs. He loves to drink the herbs, fortunately.

:-)

Jeri

 

> Doggy Tumor Formula:

 

> Shan Ci Gu (raw ground) 40 grams raw

> Wang Bu Liu Xin 10 grams extract

> Chuan Xiong 5 grams extract

> Di Long 10 grams extract

> Mo Yao 5 grams extract

> Ru Xiang 5 grams extract

> Hai Zao 10 grams extract

> Bei Jie Zi 10 grams extract

[Guest guest]

Wow--what herbs are you using? I have a friend who

has a dog with epilepsy, and being a dog trainer, I

would love to know what could help sep anx.

 

Do you mind sharing what herbs and how you prepare?

 

--- kurvenal <kurvenal wrote:

 

> Since you've listed most of these as extracts, I'm

> assuming that you're not

> cooking raw herbs here. Any particular reason for

> not using all raw herbs

> and then decocting them? Is the Shan Ci Gu being

> given raw vs. decocted?

> How are you dosing this? Once this formula is made,

> how much is given per

> day, (twice/day dosing?) Fortunately, I don't have

> any need to use this, but

> will keep in on file, just in case a dog might need

> it in the future.

>

> BTW, just in case it's of interest, I do cook the

> raw herbs for one of my

> dogs, who has epilepsy. With the combination of gold

> bead implants and the

> herbs, he's only had one seizure. (He was still

> seizuring after the gold

> bead implants, but since adding in the herbs at the

> end of July, he's just

> had one seizure.) And, his very severe separation

> anxiety is completely gone

> with the addition of the herbs. He loves to drink

> the herbs, fortunately.

> :-)

> Jeri

>

> > Doggy Tumor Formula:

>

> > Shan Ci Gu (raw ground) 40 grams raw

> > Wang Bu Liu Xin 10 grams extract

> > Chuan Xiong 5 grams extract

> > Di Long 10 grams extract

> > Mo Yao 5 grams extract

> > Ru Xiang 5 grams extract

> > Hai Zao 10 grams extract

> > Bei Jie Zi 10 grams extract

>

>

>

>

 

 

Tamara

 

" One can be sincere, but still be sincerely wrong. "

-- Irene Spencer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I don't know why, but I never saw Kurvenal's post when it came through

originally.

 

--- kurvenal <kurvenal <kurvenal%40ameritech.net>> wrote:

 

> Since you've listed most of these as extracts, I'm

> assuming that you're not

> cooking raw herbs here. Any particular reason for

> not using all raw herbs

> and then decocting them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, no reason really, except that we're trying to get this formula into a

dog and have to consider how that's going to happen. If a dog will drink out

of a water dish full of this herb tea, then we're good. However I've always

found that stirring it into food or giving the dog capsules is easier to

work with, that's all.

 

> Is the Shan Ci Gu being

> > given raw vs. decocted?

>

 

 

 

 

This is raw in the formula that I use. Mostly because it isn't available as

an extract powder that I've located. Incidentally, this is a toxic herb that

is actually categorized as " for external use only " . I don't use this herb

too often internally. Gotta be very careful with this herb.

 

>

> > How are you dosing this? Once this formula is made,

> > how much is given per

> > day, (twice/day dosing?) Fortunately, I don't have

> > any need to use this, but

> > will keep in on file, just in case a dog might need

> > it in the future.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dose based on weight. The starting point for the herb extracts that I work

with is 5 capsules, three times daily, for a mammal that weighs 150 lbs. If

one weighs 75 lbs, then you start at half the dosage. If one weighs 300

pounds, then you'll double the dosage.

 

But that's only a starting point and probably all you need to know for

treating a dog (based on my limited experience, I am open to vets chiming in

with additional dosing insight). The reason I say that it is a starting

point only is because there are different kinds of pathologies. Some benefit

from say, 10 capsules every 2 hours. This would be things that are really

intense and short-lived ( " acute " ). However 3 capsules, 2 times daily would

be a good dosage for a low-grade long-term problem ( " chronic " ).

 

> BTW, just in case it's of interest, I do cook the

> > raw herbs for one of my

> > dogs, who has epilepsy.

>

 

 

 

 

 

Whatcha using? Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin?

 

> With the combination of gold

> > bead implants and the

> > herbs, he's only had one seizure. (He was still

> > seizuring after the gold

> > bead implants, but since adding in the herbs at the

> > end of July, he's just

> > had one seizure.) And, his very severe separation

> > anxiety is completely gone

> > with the addition of the herbs. He loves to drink

> > the herbs, fortunately.

> > :-)

> > Jeri

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

, DAOM

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

http://beyondwellbeing.com