Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 I do not know if anyone can help me, but I am at a lose. I have a dog that has had kidney cancer for awhile. For the last 2 weeks - every night about 11:15 or so she starts panting - very rapid panting. She isn't showing any other signs of pain. I am wondering if it is her liver/gallbladder (Chinese Clock) and if so, what I can do for her. She will quiet down again around 3:30-4AM. I have made an appt to let her go, but then when I get up, she has so much life in her eyes, she gets up, goes outside, barks, eats....and I know it isn't time. BUT, there has to be something I can do for her - right now. I am up again searching the internet for clues. It is just too much of a coincidence that it happens every night around the same time. She sleeps quietly when I go to bed - anyway, if anyone can give me any advice, I would appreciate it a lot. Sherry Bakko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sherry, I am a complete novice at TCM, so I'm hoping someone else with more knowledge will chime in, but what you wrote struck me as I do have a TCM book for animals called " Four Paws, Five Directions " by Cheryl Schwartz, DVM and while researching liver situations for my dog the other night I read that the circadian clock for the liver and gallbladder is 11PM-3AM. According to this book " when the liver is short on blood, it draws from the kidney " . Since your dog's kidneys are obviusly out of balance due to the cancer, this makes sense with the time frame you are giving. I don't know if I'm phrasing this correctly according to TCM, but when one organ is out of balance, the other organs begin to become affected as well. The direction for kidney is north and the season is winter (which is almost upon us). Can you get your dog to a veterinarian that practices TCM? Some herbal treatments may help your dog, and I have no knowledge of Chinese herbs unfortunately. Some nutritional supplements recommended for both the kidney and liver according to the above mentioned book are: CoQ10, 10 mg for small dogs, 50 mg for large dogs daily; Vitamin E 100 iu for small dogs, 200 iu for large daily; B vitamin complex, dose according to the bottle directions, which are based on a 150 lb. human, so dose based on your dog's weight (for example my dog weighs 60 lbs., so she gets 1/2 of the human dose daily); B12 supplement with the same dosage instructions. Since your dog is panting, it sounds as if there is too much heat/fire in the liver, so I would feed some cooling and neutral foods (both) to your dog. Some cooling foods are: PROTEINS: clam, duck, egg, pork GRAINS: millet, barley, wheat VEGETABLES: lettuce, celery, broccolli, spinach, tomatoes, napa cabbage Some neutral foods are: PROTEINS: beef, beef liver, rabbit, chicken gizzards, sardines GRAINS: rice, yam, corn, rye, potato VEGETABLES: beet, turnip, carrot I would probably have the evening meal be the cooling foods, and the neutral foods be fed for the morning meal. According to Dr. Schwartz, grains need to be overcooked to help with degestibility in dogs, so she recommends 1 cup grain to 2 1/4 cups water cooked over low heat for 1 1/2 hours. You can also soak the grains overnight before cooking to aid in digestibility. You can either lightly cook or feed the proteins raw, except for any seafood which should be cooked completely or you can buy canned (as in the case of clams or sardines). Vegetables should be either the juice from the veggies after juicing them, or you can pulverize them in a blender or food processor as animals have trouble digesting veggies, so the cell walls need to be broken down. HTH, --- sherry bakko <sbakko wrote: > I do not know if anyone can help me, but I am at a > lose. I have a dog > that has had kidney cancer for awhile. For the last > 2 weeks - every > night about 11:15 or so she starts panting - very > rapid panting. She > isn't showing any other signs of pain. I am > wondering if it is her > liver/gallbladder (Chinese Clock) and if so, what I > can do for her. > She will quiet down again around 3:30-4AM. I have > made an appt to let > her go, but then when I get up, she has so much life > in her eyes, she > gets up, goes outside, barks, eats....and I know it > isn't time. BUT, > there has to be something I can do for her - right > now. I am up again > searching the internet for clues. It is just too > much of a coincidence > that it happens every night around the same time. > She sleeps quietly > when I go to bed - anyway, if anyone can give me any > advice, I would > appreciate it a lot. > > Sherry Bakko > > Tamara " One can be sincere, but still be sincerely wrong. " -- Irene Spencer ______________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sherry, I am very sorry about your dog. I wish I knew more about vet medicine - both allopathic and so I could advise you better. As someone who has had and loved many dogs and cats, there are some things I can say about that. As long as her quality of life is good and she's not in too much pain, I would not have her euthanized. This time is as precious to her as it is to you. Also, one never knows what might be found that will help. My husband and I once had a dog that was near death that we nursed back to health. Ditto for a cat the vet gave up on. So please keep loving your precious and looking for things that may help her. I don't think it's a coincidence that your dog is having problems every night starting around 11:15 pm. Have you been able to find a dog acupuncture chart on the Internet? It is possible to do acupressure on dogs and cats. Another poster has given some well-thoughtout input on the situation. Please study it for ideas. Say hello to your four-footed friend for me, and give her some petting for me. Victoria Chinese Traditional Medicine , sherry bakko <sbakko wrote: > > I do not know if anyone can help me, but I am at a lose. I have a dog > that has had kidney cancer for awhile. For the last 2 weeks - every > night about 11:15 or so she starts panting - very rapid panting. She > isn't showing any other signs of pain. I am wondering if it is her > liver/gallbladder (Chinese Clock) and if so, what I can do for her. > She will quiet down again around 3:30-4AM. I have made an appt to let > her go, but then when I get up, she has so much life in her eyes, she > gets up, goes outside, barks, eats....and I know it isn't time. BUT, > there has to be something I can do for her - right now. I am up again > searching the internet for clues. It is just too much of a coincidence > that it happens every night around the same time. She sleeps quietly > when I go to bed - anyway, if anyone can give me any advice, I would > appreciate it a lot. > > Sherry Bakko > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Good morning. Well, Rose (my dog) is still panting this morning. I did give her sub Q fluids and am going to search for the CoQ10. I also have the Vit supplements. I will call the chiro this morning (she is also our TCM vet) and see if there are any supplements she would recommend. I will not do anything to hastily with Rose, but I do not want her suffering. I fear that more than anything. She is incontinent this morning and did have a BM, so I know she isn't being poisoned by urine build up. I just wish they could speak to us. It would be so my easier - I feel just helpless not know what is happening. I do have the Four Paws book, duh! I do not think well in a crisis. I will get that out also. Sherry On Dec 6, 2007, at 7:26 AM, victoria_dragon wrote: > Sherry, I am very sorry about your dog. I wish I knew more about vet > medicine - both allopathic and so I could advise you better. > > As someone who has had and loved many dogs and cats, there are some > things I can say about that. As long as her quality of life is good > and she's not in too much pain, I would not have her euthanized. > This time is as precious to her as it is to you. > > Also, one never knows what might be found that will help. My husband > and I once had a dog that was near death that we nursed back to > health. Ditto for a cat the vet gave up on. So please keep loving > your precious and looking for things that may help her. > > I don't think it's a coincidence that your dog is having problems > every night starting around 11:15 pm. Have you been able to find a > dog acupuncture chart on the Internet? It is possible to do > acupressure on dogs and cats. > > Another poster has given some well-thoughtout input on the > situation. Please study it for ideas. > > Say hello to your four-footed friend for me, and give her some > petting for me. > > Victoria > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , sherry bakko <sbakko > wrote: > > > > I do not know if anyone can help me, but I am at a lose. I have a > dog > > that has had kidney cancer for awhile. For the last 2 weeks - > every > > night about 11:15 or so she starts panting - very rapid panting. > She > > isn't showing any other signs of pain. I am wondering if it is her > > liver/gallbladder (Chinese Clock) and if so, what I can do for > her. > > She will quiet down again around 3:30-4AM. I have made an appt to > let > > her go, but then when I get up, she has so much life in her eyes, > she > > gets up, goes outside, barks, eats....and I know it isn't time. > BUT, > > there has to be something I can do for her - right now. I am up > again > > searching the internet for clues. It is just too much of a > coincidence > > that it happens every night around the same time. She sleeps > quietly > > when I go to bed - anyway, if anyone can give me any advice, I > would > > appreciate it a lot. > > > > Sherry Bakko > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 On Dec 6, 2007 5:33 AM, sherry bakko <sbakko wrote: > Good morning. Well, Rose (my dog) is still panting this morning. > In TCM, end stage cancer often looks like " yin deficiency " or " yin deficiency with heat " . Heat makes dogs pant, and it can be aggravated in the late afternoon to evening, or even into the night. This is a similar mechanism to what a menopausal woman goes through with night sweats and hot flashes. Your dog is having hot flashes. But of course, the kidney cancer is obviously not menopause and so I'm sorry about that. In the meantime, if you would like to track down some herb extracts or formulas to add to your pooch's food, you may see some alleviation of this panting symptom. If your chiro only has pre-made formulas, look for " zhi bai di huang wan " . Another that he might have in stock is called " Qing Hao Bei Jia Tang " . Individual herbs that might be even better include: zhi mu and huang bai (this is the " zhi bai " ingredients in the above formula) di gu pi - clears " bone steaming fever " , probably not a bad idea to help the kidneys dan shen - not usually thought of for deficiency fever, but cooling and moves the blood to address the tumor, give or take... mu dan pi - same as dan shen. Just something to think about to address your dog's comfort at night. I would remain prepared to send your dog off to doggy heaven, these herbs aren't going to turn around the cancer process, but they may make your dog more comfortable until that time. -al. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 You might want to look into the use of the proteolytic enzyme Serrapeptase for terminal cancer! http://www.doctormurray.com/articles/Penzymes.htm http://www.totalityofbeing.com/ArchivedEnzymesfightCancer.html http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1 & pid=4467 & at=1 Al Stone wrote: > > On Dec 6, 2007 5:33 AM, sherry bakko <sbakko > <sbakko%40centurytel.net>> wrote: > > > Good morning. Well, Rose (my dog) is still panting this morning. > > > > In TCM, end stage cancer often looks like " yin deficiency " or " yin > deficiency with heat " . Heat makes dogs pant, and it can be aggravated > in the > late afternoon to evening, or even into the night. This is a similar > mechanism to what a menopausal woman goes through with night sweats > and hot > flashes. > > Your dog is having hot flashes. > > But of course, the kidney cancer is obviously not menopause and so I'm > sorry > about that. In the meantime, if you would like to track down some herb > extracts or formulas to add to your pooch's food, you may see some > alleviation of this panting symptom. > > If your chiro only has pre-made formulas, look for " zhi bai di huang wan " . > Another that he might have in stock is called " Qing Hao Bei Jia Tang " . > > Individual herbs that might be even better include: > > zhi mu and huang bai (this is the " zhi bai " ingredients in the above > formula) > > di gu pi - clears " bone steaming fever " , probably not a bad idea to > help the > kidneys > > dan shen - not usually thought of for deficiency fever, but cooling and > moves the blood to address the tumor, give or take... > > mu dan pi - same as dan shen. > > Just something to think about to address your dog's comfort at night. I > would remain prepared to send your dog off to doggy heaven, these herbs > aren't going to turn around the cancer process, but they may make your dog > more comfortable until that time. > > -al. > > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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