A yin that warms!!

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody

We know that yin usually moistens, nourishes and cools.On the other

hand they say that blood is yin. Now my problem is that one of the

functions of blood is to warm.Wherever we have increased blood flow,we

have warmth.So how is it that a yin substance warms?

Saba

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sabahoda " <sahomd wrote:

>

> Hi everybody

> We know that yin usually moistens, nourishes and cools.On the other

> hand they say that blood is yin. Now my problem is that one of the

> functions of blood is to warm.Wherever we have increased blood flow,we

> have warmth.So how is it that a yin substance warms?

> Saba

>

 

 

Well I think the main explination behind this is that nothing is yin

or yang, they are only yin or yang compared to something else. Almost

everything contains both yin and yang, but sometimes to lesser

extents. Most of the time we say that something that is over 50% of

yin is said to be yin, even though it still contains a significant

amount of yang. And visa versa of course. Of course there is more to

it than this, and others will probably elaborate on it, which will

probably be very useful =) This way of looking at it is pretty simple

and is easy to understand which is a good way to go when you're

learning =)

 

Hopefully that makes sense, and if you have any other questions, feel

free to ask =)

[Guest guest]

Hi Sabahoda:

The yin aspect of blood is its fluidity and so on. The yang aspect is its

warmth and movement, and so on. Everything has both a yin and a yang nature.

Nothing is purely Yin or purely Yang. Even at their extremes, when they become

purest and strongest, a phenomena is said to occur called " reverting yin " or

" reverting yang " , where an often sudden change to the opposite principle

manifests.

 

Hope that clears up the confusion,

Hugo

 

 

mrasmm <mrasmm

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Friday, 13 July, 2007 4:27:15 AM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: A yin that warms!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " sabahoda " <sahomd

wrote:

 

>

 

> Hi everybody

 

> We know that yin usually moistens, nourishes and cools.On the other

 

> hand they say that blood is yin. Now my problem is that one of the

 

> functions of blood is to warm.Wherever we have increased blood flow,we

 

> have warmth.So how is it that a yin substance warms?

 

> Saba

 

>

 

 

 

Well I think the main explination behind this is that nothing is yin

 

or yang, they are only yin or yang compared to something else. Almost

 

everything contains both yin and yang, but sometimes to lesser

 

extents. Most of the time we say that something that is over 50% of

 

yin is said to be yin, even though it still contains a significant

 

amount of yang. And visa versa of course. Of course there is more to

 

it than this, and others will probably elaborate on it, which will

 

probably be very useful =) This way of looking at it is pretty simple

 

and is easy to understand which is a good way to go when you're

 

learning =)

 

 

 

Hopefully that makes sense, and if you have any other questions, feel

 

free to ask =)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Switch an email account to Mail, you could win FIFA World Cup tickets.

http://uk.mail.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sabahoda " <sahomd wrote:

>

> Hi everybody

> We know that yin usually moistens, nourishes and cools.On the other

> hand they say that blood is yin. Now my problem is that one of the

> functions of blood is to warm.Wherever we have increased blood flow,we

> have warmth.So how is it that a yin substance warms?

 

I don't believe one of the functions of Blood is to warm the body.

(Keep in mind that Blood and blood are not equivalent.) Two of the main

functions of Blood are to nourish and moisten the tissues.

 

Blood and Qi travel through the vessels together. Giovanni Maciocia in

The Foundations of , 1st. ed., sheds more light on this

relationship:

 

" There is a very close relationship between Qi and Blood. Blood is

also a form of Qi, albeit a very dense one. Qi is Yang compared to

Blood (as it is more tenuous), Blood is Yin compared to Qi (as it is

denser). Qi and Blood are inseparable: the Nutritive Qi circulates with

Blood in the blood vessels. The close relationship between Blood and

Qi can be observed in the clinical signs following a serious

haemorrhage: often in these cases, after a massive loss of blood, the

person develops signs of Qi deficiency, such as sweating,

breathlessness and cold limbs. On the other hand, after prolonged and

heavy sweating (which depletes Qi), one may develop signs of Blood

deficiency, such as pallor, numbness, dizziness and palpitations. " (My

note: If both Qi and Blood Deficiency have gone on for some time and

the sweating is particularly bad and frequent, Blood Tonic Herbs alone

are going to be of limited effectiveness in treating Blood Deficiency

until that sweating problem (and any other " leaks " such a diarrhea,

vomiting, etc.) are improved. Sometimes even the addition of astringent

herbs are not going to be enough. The strengthening of the Spleen

and/or Lungs is going to have to be paramount in order to correct both

the Qi and the Blood Deficiency.)

 

" There are four aspects to the Blood-Qi relationship. "

 

1. " Qi generates Blood in so far as Food-Qi is the basis for Blood, and

also Lung-Qi is essential for the production of Blood.

 

" Thus, if Qi is deficient, Blood will eventually also be deficient. In

practice, it is often necessary to tonify Qi in order to nourish

Blood. This is particularly important in herbal practice, as the herbs

to tonify Qi and nourish Blood are in different categories, whereas in

acupuncture practice, the difference is not so clear-cut. "

 

2. " Qi move Blood

 

" Qi is the motive force for Blood. Without Qi, Blood would be an inert

substance. Nutritive Qi is very closely related to Blood and flows

with it in the blood vessels. Lung-Qi infuses the necessary Qi into

the blood vessets.

 

" This relationship between Qi and Blood is often expressed by a

saying: " When Qi moves, Blood follows " , and also " If Qi stagnates,

Blood congeals " .

 

" If Qi is deficient or stagnant, it cannot push the Blood and this also

stagnates. "

 

3. " Qi holds the Blood

 

" Qi has also the function of holding Blood in the blood vessels, thus

preventing haemorrhages. This function belongs primarily to the

Spleen. If Spleen-Qi is deficient, Qi annot hold Blood, and there may

be haemorrhages.

 

" The above three aspects of Qi-Blood relationship are often expressed

in the saying: " Qi is the commander of Blood " . "

 

4. " Blood nourishes Qi

 

" While Blood relies on the generating, pushing and holding action of

Qi. Qi, on the other hand, relies on the nutritive function of Blood.

 

" Blood affects Qi in two ways. First of all, Qi relies on Blood for

nourishment. Secondly, Blood provides a materail and " dense " basis

which prevents Qi from " floating " and giving rise to symptoms of Empty-

Heat.

 

" Both these aspects of Blood-Qi relationship are often express with the

saying: " Blood is the mother of Qi " . " (pp. 51-52, 1st. ed.)

 

In other words it's the Qi that travels with the Blood that warms the

Blood.

 

Beginning TCM students, the expression " Blood is the mother of Qi, and

Qi is the commander of Blood " is one that you'll be seeing a lot. So

you might as well memorize the expression and what it means now. It

will form the basis of understanding a lot about TCM.

[Guest guest]

Hi

A few questions arise:

1. " Blood and blood are not equivalent " .Is blood (the red fluid within

arteries & veins)a portion of Blood or a portion of Qi? Since it

nourishes it could be portion of Blood, and since it warms it could be

part o Qi

 

2. " Blood and Qi travel through the vessels together " By vessels here

it is meant meridians or blood vessels? In other words it seems that

Qi travels within both meridians and blood vessels.Does Blood also

travel within both blood vessels and meridians?

 

3. " Blood is also a form of Qi " Can we deduce that the " vital energy " ,

like any other phenomenon, has a yin and a yang aspect.The yin aspect

is Blood and the yang aspect is Qi?

 

4. " the Nutritive Qi circulates with Blood in the blood vessels " I am

really confused!What is it that circulates in the veins and arteries?

Blood, blood or Qi?

 

 

5.If a patient has anemia (decreased hemoglobin level),Does he have

Blood deficiency or Qi deficiency?

 

Thank you so much for your help

Saba

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " victoria_dragon "

<victoria_dragon wrote:

>

> ---

> I don't believe one of the functions of Blood is to warm the body.

> (Keep in mind that Blood and blood are not equivalent.) Two of the main

> functions of Blood are to nourish and moisten the tissues.

>

> Blood and Qi travel through the vessels together. Giovanni Maciocia in

> The Foundations of , 1st. ed., sheds more light on this

> relationship:

>

> " There is a very close relationship between Qi and Blood. Blood is

> also a form of Qi, albeit a very dense one. Qi is Yang compared to

> Blood (as it is more tenuous), Blood is Yin compared to Qi (as it is

> denser). Qi and Blood are inseparable: the Nutritive Qi circulates with

> Blood in the blood vessels. The close relationship between Blood and

> Qi can be observed in the clinical signs following a serious

> haemorrhage: often in these cases, after a massive loss of blood, the

> person develops signs of Qi deficiency, such as sweating,

> breathlessness and cold limbs. On the other hand, after prolonged and

> heavy sweating (which depletes Qi), one may develop signs of Blood

> deficiency, such as pallor, numbness, dizziness and palpitations. " (My

> note: If both Qi and Blood Deficiency have gone on for some time and

> the sweating is particularly bad and frequent, Blood Tonic Herbs alone

> are going to be of limited effectiveness in treating Blood Deficiency

> until that sweating problem (and any other " leaks " such a diarrhea,

> vomiting, etc.) are improved. Sometimes even the addition of astringent

> herbs are not going to be enough. The strengthening of the Spleen

> and/or Lungs is going to have to be paramount in order to correct both

> the Qi and the Blood Deficiency.)

>

> " There are four aspects to the Blood-Qi relationship. "

>

> 1. " Qi generates Blood in so far as Food-Qi is the basis for Blood, and

> also Lung-Qi is essential for the production of Blood.

>

> " Thus, if Qi is deficient, Blood will eventually also be deficient. In

> practice, it is often necessary to tonify Qi in order to nourish

> Blood. This is particularly important in herbal practice, as the herbs

> to tonify Qi and nourish Blood are in different categories, whereas in

> acupuncture practice, the difference is not so clear-cut. "

>

> 2. " Qi move Blood

>

> " Qi is the motive force for Blood. Without Qi, Blood would be an inert

> substance. Nutritive Qi is very closely related to Blood and flows

> with it in the blood vessels. Lung-Qi infuses the necessary Qi into

> the blood vessets.

>

> " This relationship between Qi and Blood is often expressed by a

> saying: " When Qi moves, Blood follows " , and also " If Qi stagnates,

> Blood congeals " .

>

> " If Qi is deficient or stagnant, it cannot push the Blood and this also

> stagnates. "

>

> 3. " Qi holds the Blood

>

> " Qi has also the function of holding Blood in the blood vessels, thus

> preventing haemorrhages. This function belongs primarily to the

> Spleen. If Spleen-Qi is deficient, Qi annot hold Blood, and there may

> be haemorrhages.

>

> " The above three aspects of Qi-Blood relationship are often expressed

> in the saying: " Qi is the commander of Blood " . "

>

> 4. " Blood nourishes Qi

>

> " While Blood relies on the generating, pushing and holding action of

> Qi. Qi, on the other hand, relies on the nutritive function of Blood.

>

> " Blood affects Qi in two ways. First of all, Qi relies on Blood for

> nourishment. Secondly, Blood provides a materail and " dense " basis

> which prevents Qi from " floating " and giving rise to symptoms of Empty-

> Heat.

>

> " Both these aspects of Blood-Qi relationship are often express with the

> saying: " Blood is the mother of Qi " . " (pp. 51-52, 1st. ed.)

>

> In other words it's the Qi that travels with the Blood that warms the

> Blood.

>

> Beginning TCM students, the expression " Blood is the mother of Qi, and

> Qi is the commander of Blood " is one that you'll be seeing a lot. So

> you might as well memorize the expression and what it means now. It

> will form the basis of understanding a lot about TCM.

>

[Guest guest]

That is a very good point.

In fact Blood does not have a function of warming but rather Qi has a

function of warming.

 

Thanks,

Elie

Acupuncture & Directory

Boost your rankings! Get Patients!

http://www.tcmdirectory.com

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " victoria_dragon "

<victoria_dragon wrote:

>

 

>

> I don't believe one of the functions of Blood is to warm the body.

> (Keep in mind that Blood and blood are not equivalent.) Two of the main

> functions of Blood are to nourish and moisten the tissues.

>

> Blood and Qi travel through the vessels together. Giovanni Maciocia in

> The Foundations of , 1st. ed., sheds more light on this

> relationship:

[Guest guest]

Hi Saba,

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sabahoda " <sahomd wrote:

>

> 1. " Blood and blood are not equivalent " .Is blood (the red fluid

within

> arteries & veins)a portion of Blood or a portion of Qi? Since it

> nourishes it could be portion of Blood, and since it warms it could

be

> part o Qi

 

TCM Blood is the red fluid that travels in arteries & veins. Just

like blood is the red fluid that travels within the blood vessels.

But when analyzing from a TCM standpoint, forget about things like

platelets, RBCs, WBCs, plasma, etc. For that matter, forget about

trying to analyze anything about the structure of Blood. In TCM the

emphasis is on function, not on form. A diagnosis of Blood Deficiency

in TCM is based not upon anything physical about the Blood but upon

Blood not being able to fulfill its functions of nourishing and

moistening the tissues and/or providing a " residence " for the Shen

(Spirit/ Mind) and the Hun (Ethereal Soul).

>

> 2. " Blood and Qi travel through the vessels together " By vessels here

> it is meant meridians or blood vessels? In other words it seems that

> Qi travels within both meridians and blood vessels.Does Blood also

> travel within both blood vessels and meridians?

 

TCM Blood travels just within the blood vessels (in a healthy

individual). Qi travels in the meridians and also within the blood

vessels along with the Blood. There are two main Roots (besides

trauma) of Blood leaving the vessels in TCM: One is Hot Blood

(usually due to Heat in the Liver) and another is weak Spleen Qi. In

TCM, one of the functions of Spleen Qi is to keep the Blood in the

vessels. (TCM physiology is very different from anatomy and

physiology.)

 

> 3. " Blood is also a form of Qi " Can we deduce that the " vital

energy " ,

> like any other phenomenon, has a yin and a yang aspect.The yin

aspect

> is Blood and the yang aspect is Qi?

 

Everything has a Yin and a Yang aspect. Yin and Yang are a scale.

This is why the " Yiness " or " Yangness " of something is described in

relative terms. Blood is Yin compared to Qi which is Yang compared to

Blood. The more material something is, the more Yin it is. The more

energy something is, the more Yang it is.

>

> 4. " the Nutritive Qi circulates with Blood in the blood vessels " I am

> really confused!What is it that circulates in the veins and

arteries?

> Blood, blood or Qi?

 

They all three do. But when analyzing from a TCM standpoint, forget

about blood and its structure. Concentrate on Blood and Qi.

 

Nutritive Qi is a special type of Qi that circulates with the Blood

in the blood vessels. Protective Qi is a special type of Qi that

circulates at the surface of the body and gives people resistence

against " evils " in the environment.

 

> 5.If a patient has anemia (decreased hemoglobin level),Does he have

> Blood deficiency or Qi deficiency?

 

You're still trying to apply anatomy and physiology definitions to

TCM. What matters in TCM are the TCM definitions. Are the tissues

being properly nourished and moistened and is there enough Blood to

provide a " residence " for Shen and Hun? When a person has a decreased

hemoglobin level, that's anemia, not Blood Deficiency or anything to

do with TCM. Anemia is an allopathic diagnosis.

 

However, most people who fit the criteria for most of the various

forms of anemia also will fit the criteria for Blood Deficiency.

Here's where it can start to get complex. In many of these cases,

allopathic treatment for the anemia also will correct the Blood

Deficiency (even though anemia and Blood Deficiency aren't the same

thing). In some cases TCM treatment for Blood Deficiency will clear

up the anemia. BUT there are cases where treatments for both anemia

and Blood Deficiency will be necessary in order to restore the person

to health. (MDs and DOs who also have training in TCM often are able

to treat conditions that are not responding satisfactory to

allopathic treatment alone.)

 

It is very, very important to keep in mind that even though

allopathic blood tests are normal, the person still can be suffering

from Blood Deficiency. What counts in TCM are the TCM definitions,

not allopathic definitions.

 

Some (not all) cases of polycythemia vera (too many red blood cells)

will meet the criteria for Blood Deficiency.

 

I want to stress that part about allopathic medical tests can be

normal but the person meets the TCM criteria. By allopathic

standards, my kidneys probably were in the best shape of any of my

organs. But, by TCM standards my Kidneys were the most imbalanced

Organ. It was a big standout. When it got to the part of the

examination where I was asked questions, I answered " yes " to just

about every question that can indicate Kidney imbalance (including

the ones about ear and hearing problems).