Guest guest Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi Betsy, How much of the red clover should be used? Does it all have to be drunk that day or will it last a few days? Thanks Marie oleander soup , Betsy Sinkey <westoo wrote: > > In all the posts so far, I have seen no mention of red clover tea. The great herbalist Dr. John Christopher swore (on his deathbed) that red clover tea was the cure for cancer. It's certainly worth a try. If you can't go out and collect the red clover growing in the wild yourself then get it from a reputable herb dealer that either organically grows or wild-crafts it. (DO NOT buy red clover tea from a health food store. I buy my herbs from Pacific Botanicals in Oregon.) Put the red clover in a mason jar, pour very hot water over it to cover it, put the lid on loosely at least until it cools down a bit then you can tighten the lid and shake it from time to time and let it set overnight. Drink it freely throughout the day. > Betsy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 How do you make red clover tea? I went to pacific botanicals and they have the herb, and blossoms etc. I did not know what to but to make tea. thanks, Barbara N germany--- On Tue, 12/8/09, infomcf <infomcf wrote: infomcf <infomcf Red Clover Teaoleander soup Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 9:43 AM Hi Betsy,How much of the red clover should be used?Does it all have to be drunk that day or will it last a few days?ThanksMarieoleander soup , Betsy Sinkey <westoo wrote:>> In all the posts so far, I have seen no mention of red clover tea. The great herbalist Dr. John Christopher swore (on his deathbed) that red clover tea was the cure for cancer. It's certainly worth a try. If you can't go out and collect the red clover growing in the wild yourself then get it from a reputable herb dealer that either organically grows or wild-crafts it. (DO NOT buy red clover tea from a health food store. I buy my herbs from Pacific Botanicals in Oregon.) Put the red clover in a mason jar, pour very hot water over it to cover it, put the lid on loosely at least until it cools down a bit then you can tighten the lid and shake it from time to time and let it set overnight. Drink it freely throughout the day.> Betsy> > > > > --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Red clover tea is not THE cure for cancer, but it IS an excellent blood cleanser and is used in many anti-cancer formulas. I would always include it in any cancer protocol. Blossoms are what is used. Besides, it tastes good. :-) To make tea there are 2 ways. The best way, I think, is to bring the water to a boil and then pour the boiling water into a bowl or cup where the clover blossoms are, cover to keep the steam in, and allow to steep for 10 minutes. Strain and drink. Or, others actually boil the flowers. Put the flowers into some water, bring to a boil, turn it down to a simmer and gently simmer for 10 minutes, strain and drink. You can mix red clover with many other good anti-cancer herbs, like chaparral. It will make strong herbs like chaparral taste better--chap is bitter, though I like the taste of it, most people don't. Samala, Renee ---- How do you make red clover tea? I went to pacific botanicals and they have the herb, and blossoms etc. I did not know what to but to make tea. Thanks, Barbara N germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 would it be of better benefit to use extract or tincture? Hhow do I find a reputable distributor? i assume it is better to use the teas instead of the bagged teas???? thank u =) I Renee <gaiacitaoleander soup Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 3:01:38 PMRe: Red Clover Tea Red clover tea is not THE cure for cancer, but it IS an excellent blood cleanser and is used in many anti-cancer formulas. I would always include it in any cancer protocol. Blossoms are what is used. Besides, it tastes good. :-) To make tea there are 2 ways. The best way, I think, is to bring the water to a boil and then pour the boiling water into a bowl or cup where the clover blossoms are, cover to keep the steam in, and allow to steep for 10 minutes. Strain and drink. Or, others actually boil the flowers. Put the flowers into some water, bring to a boil, turn it down to a simmer and gently simmer for 10 minutes, strain and drink. You can mix red clover with many other good anti-cancer herbs, like chaparral. It will make strong herbs like chaparral taste better--chap is bitter, though I like the taste of it, most people don't. Samala, Renee ---- How do you make red clover tea? I went to pacific botanicals and they have the herb, and blossoms etc. I did not know what to but to make tea. Thanks, Barbara N germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hi. The www.mountainroseherbs.com site is a great place to buy organic herbs of all types. They usually run out of red clover in the winter so if they still have the flowers you could get them now. Other places have good herbs too, but this happens to be my favorite. They donate to good causes, use environmentally friendly packaging, etc. Most herbs have chemicals that need both water and alcohol to draw them out. If you use just one, say water, then you are not getting the alcohol necessary chemicals out. If you use just alcohol, you are not getting the water chemicals out. So the best plan, I think for a person wanting ALL the benefits, is to do both. :-) Which means making an alcohol based tincture (simple, follow the same directions I gave for making a cayenne tincture). Then, when your tincture is ready to be used, make a cup of tea with the flowers and add a dropperful of the tincture to the tea. This way you get the best of both worlds. But if I had to choose just ONE method, I would always choose tincture. Because you can get the herbs as fresh as you possibly can, then when you make your tincture you use vodka which is actually almost the perfect balance of alcohol to water. So you pretty much get both chemical types out of the herb. Then, tinctures last forever. So if you have one good year of lots and lots of red clover growing in your yard, and you make a nice big batch of tincture, then next year something happens and there's no red clover to be had--you've still got tincture that's just as powerful as when you made it! So tincture is good because 1) it keeps 2) you don't need to rely on a fresh crop of herbs every year 3) you make it once and then you can go a couple years (if you make a big enough batch) without having to make it again. Samala, Renee ---- Would it be of better benefit to use extract or tincture? Hhow do I find a reputable distributor? i assume it is better to use the teas instead of the bagged teas???? thank u =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Renee, Alcohol is forbidden to be ingested by cancer patients. Will making tincture using vodka not be harmful? Just asking before i make my tincture. Also how about using DMSO? Would DMSO be better than vodka? Thanks. Melly oleander soup , " Renee " <gaiacita wrote: > > Hi. The www.mountainroseherbs.com site is a great place to buy organic > herbs of all types. They usually run out of red clover in the winter so if > they still have the flowers you could get them now. Other places have good > herbs too, but this happens to be my favorite. They donate to good causes, > use environmentally friendly packaging, etc. > > Most herbs have chemicals that need both water and alcohol to draw them out. > If you use just one, say water, then you are not getting the alcohol > necessary chemicals out. If you use just alcohol, you are not getting the > water chemicals out. > > So the best plan, I think for a person wanting ALL the benefits, is to do > both. :-) > > Which means making an alcohol based tincture (simple, follow the same > directions I gave for making a cayenne tincture). Then, when your tincture > is ready to be used, make a cup of tea with the flowers and add a dropperful > of the tincture to the tea. > > This way you get the best of both worlds. > > But if I had to choose just ONE method, I would always choose tincture. > Because you can get the herbs as fresh as you possibly can, then when you > make your tincture you use vodka which is actually almost the perfect > balance of alcohol to water. So you pretty much get both chemical types out > of the herb. > > Then, tinctures last forever. So if you have one good year of lots and lots > of red clover growing in your yard, and you make a nice big batch of > tincture, then next year something happens and there's no red clover to be > had--you've still got tincture that's just as powerful as when you made it! > > > So tincture is good because 1) it keeps 2) you don't need to rely on a fresh > crop of herbs every year 3) you make it once and then you can go a couple > years (if you make a big enough batch) without having to make it again. > > Samala, > Renee > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Yes, Melly, DMSO would be a great base for tinctures, if you can stand the smell and taste. Some can, some can't. Normally I would tell you that you could get rid of the alcohol by putting the tincture in the hot tea, because it use to be said that the heat would drive the alcohol off. That's what we always told people because we thought it was true. You will still see that. But some chef finally did some tests--one of those flaming skillet recipes--to see if that was really true. Tests proved that the alcohol content was still there, in the recipe, even though the flames had caught fire to the alcohol fumes and burnt the fumes off. Some people will put whatever amount of tincture they are going to take onto a saucer and let it evaporate a bit. They say the evaporation takes the alcohol out. I believe this might be true, though I have no proof and have not read where any tests have actually been done. I know that when you leave the lid off a bottle of vodka it evaporates faster than if the bottle were filled with just water--so I am assuming that means the alcohol is evaporating also, and at a faster rate. So perhaps when you expose a lot of the tincture, say a full dropperful, to as much air as possible by putting it in a saucer, and then letting it sit out for an hour or so, maybe the alcohol evaporates and you don't have much left, while you'd still have water left. <shrug> I'm sorry, I just can't say for sure. But--whichever method you choose know that you are not getting the amount of alcohol you'd be as if you actually drank even a small glass. The alcohol in a dropper is not much at all because you also have the water content there as well. Vodka is almost a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. If you took 2 droppers in a cup of tea, even 3 times a day, it would not add up to a shot glass of vodka. Not even a QUARTER of a shot. Many (most) flower essences are made with brandy to preserve them. Brandy has more alcohol per water content than vodka does. Supposedly the company from England that produces Bach Flower Essences for years and years, said that when you take a full dropper of an essences (made with brandy) that it's the same alcohol content in your system as eating one banana. Because bananas convert to a tiny bit of alcohol during fermentation in your stomach. At least that's the way it was explained to me. You can also make a tincture out of vegetable glycerin or apple cider vinegar. You make them the same way as you do an alcohol tincture (the ACV is much cheaper than the glycerin to buy though). But remember, that with those, and the DMSO, you are not getting the constituents out that NEED alcohol. But, if I was going to totally avoid alcohol then my next pick would be the DMSO. I think it would draw out much more than the ACV or glycerin. Samala, Renee ---- Alcohol is forbidden to be ingested by cancer patients. Will making tincture using vodka not be harmful? Just asking before i make my tincture. Also how about using DMSO? Would DMSO be better than vodka? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Renee Thanks for your very informative reply. I am very allergic to alcohol, my throat closes and i turn blue and have convulsions, that is if i drink even one sip of " raw " alcoholic drink. However, if a viand is served and it has been cooked with alcohol as an ingredient, it does not bother me at all, even those sizzling platters don't bother me. I've been trying to figure out what it is, maybe the " spirits " of the alcoholic drink? Anyhow, i learned a lot from your post. Melly oleander soup , " Renee " <gaiacita wrote: > > Yes, Melly, DMSO would be a great base for tinctures, if you can stand the > smell and taste. Some can, some can't. > > Normally I would tell you that you could get rid of the alcohol by putting > the tincture in the hot tea, because it use to be said that the heat would > drive the alcohol off. That's what we always told people because we thought > it was true. You will still see that. But some chef finally did some > tests--one of those flaming skillet recipes--to see if that was really true. > Tests proved that the alcohol content was still there, in the recipe, even > though the flames had caught fire to the alcohol fumes and burnt the fumes > off. > > Some people will put whatever amount of tincture they are going to take onto > a saucer and let it evaporate a bit. They say the evaporation takes the > alcohol out. I believe this might be true, though I have no proof and have > not read where any tests have actually been done. I know that when you > leave the lid off a bottle of vodka it evaporates faster than if the bottle > were filled with just water--so I am assuming that means the alcohol is > evaporating also, and at a faster rate. So perhaps when you expose a lot of > the tincture, say a full dropperful, to as much air as possible by putting > it in a saucer, and then letting it sit out for an hour or so, maybe the > alcohol evaporates and you don't have much left, while you'd still have > water left. <shrug> I'm sorry, I just can't say for sure. > > But--whichever method you choose know that you are not getting the amount of > alcohol you'd be as if you actually drank even a small glass. The alcohol > in a dropper is not much at all because you also have the water content > there as well. Vodka is almost a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. If you > took 2 droppers in a cup of tea, even 3 times a day, it would not add up to > a shot glass of vodka. Not even a QUARTER of a shot. > > Many (most) flower essences are made with brandy to preserve them. Brandy > has more alcohol per water content than vodka does. Supposedly the company > from England that produces Bach Flower Essences for years and years, said > that when you take a full dropper of an essences (made with brandy) that it > s the same alcohol content in your system as eating one banana. Because > bananas convert to a tiny bit of alcohol during fermentation in your stomach > At least that's the way it was explained to me. > > You can also make a tincture out of vegetable glycerin or apple cider > vinegar. You make them the same way as you do an alcohol tincture (the ACV > is much cheaper than the glycerin to buy though). But remember, that with > those, and the DMSO, you are not getting the constituents out that NEED > alcohol. > > But, if I was going to totally avoid alcohol then my next pick would be the > DMSO. I think it would draw out much more than the ACV or glycerin. > > Samala, > Renee > > ---- > > > Alcohol is forbidden to be ingested by cancer patients. Will making tincture > using vodka not be harmful? Just asking before i make my tincture. Also how > about using DMSO? Would DMSO be better than vodka? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 An alcohol tincture is necessary because the alcohol/water combination will dissolve ingredients that neither will dissolve by themselves. If alcohol is removed from the system then some compounds will start to precipitate out of the tincture. The amount of alcohol would be very dilute and should cause no problems. Ethanol is a product of our normal metabolism in any case. DMSO taken internally is a low grade toxin, much more toxic than ethanol. Bob R oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of tita_mel Friday, December 11, 2009 11:36 PM oleander soup Re: Red Clover Tea Renee Thanks for your very informative reply. I am very allergic to alcohol, my throat closes and i turn blue and have convulsions, that is if i drink even one sip of " raw " alcoholic drink. However, if a viand is served and it has been cooked with alcohol as an ingredient, it does not bother me at all, even those sizzling platters don't bother me. I've been trying to figure out what it is, maybe the " spirits " of the alcoholic drink? Anyhow, i learned a lot from your post. Melly oleander soup , " Renee " <gaiacita wrote: > > Yes, Melly, DMSO would be a great base for tinctures, if you can stand the > smell and taste. Some can, some can't. > > Normally I would tell you that you could get rid of the alcohol by putting > the tincture in the hot tea, because it use to be said that the heat would > drive the alcohol off. That's what we always told people because we thought > it was true. You will still see that. But some chef finally did some > tests--one of those flaming skillet recipes--to see if that was really true. > Tests proved that the alcohol content was still there, in the recipe, even > though the flames had caught fire to the alcohol fumes and burnt the fumes > off. > > Some people will put whatever amount of tincture they are going to take onto > a saucer and let it evaporate a bit. They say the evaporation takes the > alcohol out. I believe this might be true, though I have no proof and have > not read where any tests have actually been done. I know that when you > leave the lid off a bottle of vodka it evaporates faster than if the bottle > were filled with just water--so I am assuming that means the alcohol is > evaporating also, and at a faster rate. So perhaps when you expose a lot of > the tincture, say a full dropperful, to as much air as possible by putting > it in a saucer, and then letting it sit out for an hour or so, maybe the > alcohol evaporates and you don't have much left, while you'd still have > water left. <shrug> I'm sorry, I just can't say for sure. > > But--whichever method you choose know that you are not getting the amount of > alcohol you'd be as if you actually drank even a small glass. The alcohol > in a dropper is not much at all because you also have the water content > there as well. Vodka is almost a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. If you > took 2 droppers in a cup of tea, even 3 times a day, it would not add up to > a shot glass of vodka. Not even a QUARTER of a shot. > > Many (most) flower essences are made with brandy to preserve them. Brandy > has more alcohol per water content than vodka does. Supposedly the company > from England that produces Bach Flower Essences for years and years, said > that when you take a full dropper of an essences (made with brandy) that it > s the same alcohol content in your system as eating one banana. Because > bananas convert to a tiny bit of alcohol during fermentation in your stomach > At least that's the way it was explained to me. > > You can also make a tincture out of vegetable glycerin or apple cider > vinegar. You make them the same way as you do an alcohol tincture (the ACV > is much cheaper than the glycerin to buy though). But remember, that with > those, and the DMSO, you are not getting the constituents out that NEED > alcohol. > > But, if I was going to totally avoid alcohol then my next pick would be the > DMSO. I think it would draw out much more than the ACV or glycerin. > > Samala, > Renee > > ---- > > > Alcohol is forbidden to be ingested by cancer patients. Will making tincture > using vodka not be harmful? Just asking before i make my tincture. Also how > about using DMSO? Would DMSO be better than vodka? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I am trying to follow all this, but I am getting SO lost!!!Tony, , HELP!Can't one JUST make tea, red clover and water, sounds good to me:-)Barbara N Germany--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Bobby E Rehberg <brehberg wrote:Bobby E Rehberg <brehbergRE: Re: Red Clover Teaoleander soup Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 9:16 AM An alcohol tincture is necessary because the alcohol/water combination will dissolve ingredients that neither will dissolve by themselves. If alcohol is removed from the system then some compounds will start to precipitate out of the tincture. The amount of alcohol would be very dilute and should cause no problems. Ethanol is a product of our normal metabolism in any case. DMSO taken internally is a low grade toxin, much more toxic than ethanol. Bob R oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of tita_mel Friday, December 11, 2009 11:36 PM oleander soup Re: Red Clover Tea Renee Thanks for your very informative reply. I am very allergic to alcohol, my throat closes and i turn blue and have convulsions, that is if i drink even one sip of "raw" alcoholic drink. However, if a viand is served and it has been cooked with alcohol as an ingredient, it does not bother me at all, even those sizzling platters don't bother me. I've been trying to figure out what it is, maybe the "spirits" of the alcoholic drink? Anyhow, i learned a lot from your post. Melly oleander soup , "Renee" <gaiacita wrote: > > Yes, Melly, DMSO would be a great base for tinctures, if you can stand the > smell and taste. Some can, some can't. > > Normally I would tell you that you could get rid of the alcohol by putting > the tincture in the hot tea, because it use to be said that the heat would > drive the alcohol off. That's what we always told people because we thought > it was true. You will still see that. But some chef finally did some > tests--one of those flaming skillet recipes--to see if that was really true. > Tests proved that the alcohol content was still there, in the recipe, even > though the flames had caught fire to the alcohol fumes and burnt the fumes > off. > > Some people will put whatever amount of tincture they are going to take onto > a saucer and let it evaporate a bit. They say the evaporation takes the > alcohol out. I believe this might be true, though I have no proof and have > not read where any tests have actually been done. I know that when you > leave the lid off a bottle of vodka it evaporates faster than if the bottle > were filled with just water--so I am assuming that means the alcohol is > evaporating also, and at a faster rate. So perhaps when you expose a lot of > the tincture, say a full dropperful, to as much air as possible by putting > it in a saucer, and then letting it sit out for an hour or so, maybe the > alcohol evaporates and you don't have much left, while you'd still have > water left. <shrug> I'm sorry, I just can't say for sure. > > But--whichever method you choose know that you are not getting the amount of > alcohol you'd be as if you actually drank even a small glass. The alcohol > in a dropper is not much at all because you also have the water content > there as well. Vodka is almost a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. If you > took 2 droppers in a cup of tea, even 3 times a day, it would not add up to > a shot glass of vodka. Not even a QUARTER of a shot. > > Many (most) flower essences are made with brandy to preserve them. Brandy > has more alcohol per water content than vodka does. Supposedly the company > from England that produces Bach Flower Essences for years and years, said > that when you take a full dropper of an essences (made with brandy) that it > s the same alcohol content in your system as eating one banana. Because > bananas convert to a tiny bit of alcohol during fermentation in your stomach > At least that's the way it was explained to me. > > You can also make a tincture out of vegetable glycerin or apple cider > vinegar. You make them the same way as you do an alcohol tincture (the ACV > is much cheaper than the glycerin to buy though). But remember, that with > those, and the DMSO, you are not getting the constituents out that NEED > alcohol. > > But, if I was going to totally avoid alcohol then my next pick would be the > DMSO. I think it would draw out much more than the ACV or glycerin. > > Samala, > Renee > > ---- > > > Alcohol is forbidden to be ingested by cancer patients. Will making tincture > using vodka not be harmful? Just asking before i make my tincture. Also how > about using DMSO? Would DMSO be better than vodka? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Boy Melly, I don't know an answer to that! Maybe this means that there is something in the alcohol gas--spirits--that bothers you, that is cooked off when heated. The article about the chef's experiment with flaming alcohol proves that whatever alcohol is chemically made up of is still in the food, all of the alcohol fumes (gas, spirits?) is used up, gone. And apparently you are proof of this. But for you, I would suggest buying enough red clover to last for the winter and then making long decoctions of tea. You can even make a double decoction, which simply means to make a cup of tea, strain the flowers out, and add more new flowers to the same water and steep again. Don't add more water, just use the same water--that way you are getting a double dose of the flowers to make the tea stronger for you. Samala, Renee ---- Thanks for your very informative reply. I am very allergic to alcohol, my throat closes and i turn blue and have convulsions, that is if i drink even one sip of "raw" alcoholic drink. However, if a viand is served and it has been cooked with alcohol as an ingredient, it does not bother me at all, even those sizzling platters don't bother me. I've been trying to figure out what it is, maybe the "spirits" of the alcoholic drink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Absolutely! (sorry, I'm not Tony or , but--) Remember, even though we talk about alcohol tinctures, or vinegar tinctures or DMSO tinctures, before there was ANY of this, there was tea. A good strong tea can do wonders. Chemically, we now know that alcohol or vinegar or DMSO takes out certain parts (chemicals) of the plants that plain water does not. So today, because alcohol, vinegar and DMSO are common and easy to come by, we use them. Alcohol has a certain amount of water in it and therefor able to pull out both types of chemicals--those that need alcohol and those that need water--from the plants. Vinegar can pull certain things out, but is used because it is a good preservative for those who cannot or do not want to use alcohol. Many people that make tinctures for children or pets use vinegar because they do not want the alcohol in those cases. People that use DMSO (which is safe) do so because the DMSO has a great affinity for water, and will pull water constituents out of the plants, plus DMSO has many healing factors of its own, and some people want those factors to combine with the herbal factors. Some people don't take the DMSO tinctures orally because they don't like the taste (though again, DMSO is safe to take orally) but they apply the DMSO tinctures externally. The skin will absorb whatever is put on it, and the DMSO takes the plant constituents into the blood stream, bypassing the digestion, so that technically you get more of the actual plant constituents into the blood this way than by sending the tincture through the digestive process. But again--before any of these relatively new things were available to the common person--there was tea. There are still many, many Chinese herbal formulas that are given as tea and NOT tinctures. In America we tend to want to use the strongest, the newest, the whatever is being touted at the time. We forget that tea can be a powerful healer all by itself. So yes, use tea. The simple act of making tea is both calming and healing in itself. Then you get to add the healing benefit of the actual tea. A great combination. :-) Samala, Renee ---- I am trying to follow all this, but I am getting SO lost!!!Tony, , HELP!Can't one JUST make tea, red clover and water, sounds good to me:-)Barbara N Germany--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Bobby E Rehberg <brehberg wrote: Bobby E Rehberg <brehbergRE: Re: Red Clover Teaoleander soup Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 9:16 AM An alcohol tincture is necessary because the alcohol/water combination will dissolve ingredients that neither will dissolve by themselves. If alcohol is removed from the system then some compounds will start to precipitate out of the tincture. The amount of alcohol would be very dilute and should cause no problems. Ethanol is a product of our normal metabolism in any case. DMSO taken internally is a low grade toxin, much more toxic than ethanol. Bob R oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of tita_melFriday, December 11, 2009 11:36 PMoleander soup Subject: Re: Red Clover Tea ReneeThanks for your very informative reply. I am very allergic to alcohol, my throat closes and i turn blue and have convulsions, that is if i drink even one sip of "raw" alcoholic drink. However, if a viand is served and it has been cooked with alcohol as an ingredient, it does not bother me at all, even those sizzling platters don't bother me. I've been trying to figure out what it is, maybe the "spirits" of the alcoholic drink?Anyhow, i learned a lot from your post.Mellyoleander soup , "Renee" <gaiacita wrote:>> Yes, Melly, DMSO would be a great base for tinctures, if you can stand the> smell and taste. Some can, some can't. > > Normally I would tell you that you could get rid of the alcohol by putting> the tincture in the hot tea, because it use to be said that the heat would> drive the alcohol off. That's what we always told people because we thought> it was true. You will still see that. But some chef finally did some> tests--one of those flaming skillet recipes--to see if that was really true.> Tests proved that the alcohol content was still there, in the recipe, even> though the flames had caught fire to the alcohol fumes and burnt the fumes> off.> > Some people will put whatever amount of tincture they are going to take onto> a saucer and let it evaporate a bit. They say the evaporation takes the> alcohol out. I believe this might be true, though I have no proof and have> not read where any tests have actually been done. I know that when you> leave the lid off a bottle of vodka it evaporates faster than if the bottle> were filled with just water--so I am assuming that means the alcohol is> evaporating also, and at a faster rate. So perhaps when you expose a lot of> the tincture, say a full dropperful, to as much air as possible by putting> it in a saucer, and then letting it sit out for an hour or so, maybe the> alcohol evaporates and you don't have much left, while you'd still have> water left. <shrug> I'm sorry, I just can't say for sure.> > But--whichever method you choose know that you are not getting the amount of> alcohol you'd be as if you actually drank even a small glass. The alcohol> in a dropper is not much at all because you also have the water content> there as well. Vodka is almost a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. If you> took 2 droppers in a cup of tea, even 3 times a day, it would not add up to> a shot glass of vodka. Not even a QUARTER of a shot.> > Many (most) flower essences are made with brandy to preserve them. Brandy> has more alcohol per water content than vodka does. Supposedly the company> from England that produces Bach Flower Essences for years and years, said> that when you take a full dropper of an essences (made with brandy) that it> s the same alcohol content in your system as eating one banana. Because> bananas convert to a tiny bit of alcohol during fermentation in your stomach> At least that's the way it was explained to me.> > You can also make a tincture out of vegetable glycerin or apple cider> vinegar. You make them the same way as you do an alcohol tincture (the ACV> is much cheaper than the glycerin to buy though). But remember, that with> those, and the DMSO, you are not getting the constituents out that NEED> alcohol.> > But, if I was going to totally avoid alcohol then my next pick would be the> DMSO. I think it would draw out much more than the ACV or glycerin.> > Samala,> Renee> > ----> > > Alcohol is forbidden to be ingested by cancer patients. Will making tincture> using vodka not be harmful? Just asking before i make my tincture. Also how> about using DMSO? Would DMSO be better than vodka?> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Actually, you can just make red clover tea. The boiling water will get practically all of the ingredients, though for the non water soluable non polar compounds it will get less than extraction by alchohol. It will still get some though, the same as oleander extraction by water gets the non polar cardiac glysocides including two of the major active components of oleander, oleandrin and oleandrinogen in small amounts. Think of the beef broth you get from boiling beef or beef bones. Even though alcohol extraction is the preferred method for making tinctures, it is not always the best, because some of the the water soluable compounds which may be essential supporting compounds precipitate out and are lost during the extraction process. Such is decidedly the case with oleander, where an ethanol extraction process results in a far less effective extract that is missing vital supporting compounds. So I would say make your tea with water and don't worry about it! All the best, oleander soup , barbara elenniss <bntelenniss wrote:>> I am trying to follow all this, but I am getting SO lost!!!> > Tony, , HELP!> > Can't one JUST make tea, red clover and water, sounds good to me:-)> > Barbara N Germany> > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, Bobby E Rehberg brehberg wrote:> > Bobby E Rehberg brehberg RE: Re: Red Clover Tea> oleander soup > Saturday, December 12, 2009, 9:16 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An alcohol tincture is necessary because the alcohol/water> combination will dissolve ingredients that neither will dissolve by> themselves. If alcohol is removed from the system then some compounds> will start to precipitate out of the tincture. The amount of alcohol> would be very dilute and should cause no problems. Ethanol is a product> of our normal metabolism in any case. > > DMSO taken internally is a low grade toxin, much more toxic than> ethanol. > > > > Bob R > > > > > > > > > oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf> Of tita_mel> > Friday, December 11, 2009 11:36 PM> > oleander soup > > Re: Red Clover Tea > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Renee> > > > Thanks for your very informative reply. I am very allergic to alcohol, my> throat closes and i turn blue and have convulsions, that is if i drink even one> sip of "raw" alcoholic drink. However, if a viand is served and it> has been cooked with alcohol as an ingredient, it does not bother me at all,> even those sizzling platters don't bother me. I've been trying to figure out> what it is, maybe the "spirits" of the alcoholic drink?> > > > Anyhow, i learned a lot from your post.> > > > Melly> > > > oleander soup ,> "Renee" gaiacita@ wrote:> > >> > > Yes, Melly, DMSO would be a great base for tinctures, if you can stand the> > > smell and taste. Some can, some can't. > > > > > > Normally I would tell you that you could get rid of the alcohol by putting> > > the tincture in the hot tea, because it use to be said that the heat would> > > drive the alcohol off. That's what we always told people because we thought> > > it was true. You will still see that. But some chef finally did some> > > tests--one of those flaming skillet recipes--to see if that was really> true.> > > Tests proved that the alcohol content was still there, in the recipe, even> > > though the flames had caught fire to the alcohol fumes and burnt the fumes> > > off.> > > > > > Some people will put whatever amount of tincture they are going to take> onto> > > a saucer and let it evaporate a bit. They say the evaporation takes the> > > alcohol out. I believe this might be true, though I have no proof and have> > > not read where any tests have actually been done. I know that when you> > > leave the lid off a bottle of vodka it evaporates faster than if the> bottle> > > were filled with just water--so I am assuming that means the alcohol is> > > evaporating also, and at a faster rate. So perhaps when you expose a lot> of> > > the tincture, say a full dropperful, to as much air as possible by putting> > > it in a saucer, and then letting it sit out for an hour or so, maybe the> > > alcohol evaporates and you don't have much left, while you'd still have> > > water left. <shrug> I'm sorry, I just can't say for sure.> > > > > > But--whichever method you choose know that you are not getting the amount> of> > > alcohol you'd be as if you actually drank even a small glass. The alcohol> > > in a dropper is not much at all because you also have the water content> > > there as well. Vodka is almost a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. If you> > > took 2 droppers in a cup of tea, even 3 times a day, it would not add up> to> > > a shot glass of vodka. Not even a QUARTER of a shot.> > > > > > Many (most) flower essences are made with brandy to preserve them. Brandy> > > has more alcohol per water content than vodka does. Supposedly the company> > > from England that produces Bach Flower Essences for years and years, said> > > that when you take a full dropper of an essences (made with brandy) that> it> > > s the same alcohol content in your system as eating one banana. Because> > > bananas convert to a tiny bit of alcohol during fermentation in your> stomach> > > At least that's the way it was explained to me.> > > > > > You can also make a tincture out of vegetable glycerin or apple cider> > > vinegar. You make them the same way as you do an alcohol tincture (the ACV> > > is much cheaper than the glycerin to buy though). But remember, that with> > > those, and the DMSO, you are not getting the constituents out that NEED> > > alcohol.> > > > > > But, if I was going to totally avoid alcohol then my next pick would be> the> > > DMSO. I think it would draw out much more than the ACV or glycerin.> > > > > > Samala,> > > Renee> > > > > > ----> > > > > > > > > Alcohol is forbidden to be ingested by cancer patients. Will making> tincture> > > using vodka not be harmful? Just asking before i make my tincture. Also> how> > > about using DMSO? Would DMSO be better than vodka?> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Thank you Tony...You are THE man. I shall go and have somered clover tea,BTW that christopher's cayenne pepper is SOOOOOOOOO hot I thought Iwas gonna die!!! My husband is a wimp and won't even try it.i am taking it each day...ONE drop, all i can handle. i don't know if it will cure my heart or kill it. LOL actually to my knowledge my heart is OK, but then what do I know?barbara N germany--- On Sat, 12/12/09, wrote:TonyI Re: Red Clover Teaoleander soup Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 1:58 PM Actually, you can just make red clover tea. The boiling water will get practically all of the ingredients, though for the non water soluable non polar compounds it will get less than extraction by alchohol. It will still get some though, the same as oleander extraction by water gets the non polar cardiac glysocides including two of the major active components of oleander, oleandrin and oleandrinogen in small amounts. Think of the beef broth you get from boiling beef or beef bones. Even though alcohol extraction is the preferred method for making tinctures, it is not always the best, because some of the the water soluable compounds which may be essential supporting compounds precipitate out and are lost during the extraction process. Such is decidedly the case with oleander, where an ethanol extraction process results in a far less effective extract that is missing vital supporting compounds. So I would say make your tea with water and don't worry about it! All the best, oleander soup , barbara elenniss <bntelenniss wrote:>> I am trying to follow all this, but I am getting SO lost!!!> > Tony, , HELP!> > Can't one JUST make tea, red clover and water, sounds good to me:-)> > Barbara N Germany> > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, Bobby E Rehberg brehberg wrote:> > Bobby E Rehberg brehberg RE: Re: Red Clover Tea> oleander soup > Saturday, December 12, 2009, 9:16 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An alcohol tincture is necessary because the alcohol/water> combination will dissolve ingredients that neither will dissolve by> themselves. If alcohol is removed from the system then some compounds> will start to precipitate out of the tincture. The amount of alcohol> would be very dilute and should cause no problems. Ethanol is a product> of our normal metabolism in any case. > > DMSO taken internally is a low grade toxin, much more toxic than> ethanol. > > > > Bob R > > > > > > > > > oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf> Of tita_mel> > Friday, December 11, 2009 11:36 PM> > oleander soup > > Re: Red Clover Tea > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Renee> > > > Thanks for your very informative reply. I am very allergic to alcohol, my> throat closes and i turn blue and have convulsions, that is if i drink even one> sip of "raw" alcoholic drink. However, if a viand is served and it> has been cooked with alcohol as an ingredient, it does not bother me at all,> even those sizzling platters don't bother me. I've been trying to figure out> what it is, maybe the "spirits" of the alcoholic drink?> > > > Anyhow, i learned a lot from your post.> > > > Melly> > > > oleander soup ,> "Renee" gaiacita@ wrote:> > >> > > Yes, Melly, DMSO would be a great base for tinctures, if you can stand the> > > smell and taste. Some can, some can't. > > > > > > Normally I would tell you that you could get rid of the alcohol by putting> > > the tincture in the hot tea, because it use to be said that the heat would> > > drive the alcohol off. That's what we always told people because we thought> > > it was true. You will still see that. But some chef finally did some> > > tests--one of those flaming skillet recipes--to see if that was really> true.> > > Tests proved that the alcohol content was still there, in the recipe, even> > > though the flames had caught fire to the alcohol fumes and burnt the fumes> > > off.> > > > > > Some people will put whatever amount of tincture they are going to take> onto> > > a saucer and let it evaporate a bit. They say the evaporation takes the> > > alcohol out. I believe this might be true, though I have no proof and have> > > not read where any tests have actually been done. I know that when you> > > leave the lid off a bottle of vodka it evaporates faster than if the> bottle> > > were filled with just water--so I am assuming that means the alcohol is> > > evaporating also, and at a faster rate. So perhaps when you expose a lot> of> > > the tincture, say a full dropperful, to as much air as possible by putting> > > it in a saucer, and then letting it sit out for an hour or so, maybe the> > > alcohol evaporates and you don't have much left, while you'd still have> > > water left. <shrug> I'm sorry, I just can't say for sure.> > > > > > But--whichever method you choose know that you are not getting the amount> of> > > alcohol you'd be as if you actually drank even a small glass. The alcohol> > > in a dropper is not much at all because you also have the water content> > > there as well. Vodka is almost a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. If you> > > took 2 droppers in a cup of tea, even 3 times a day, it would not add up> to> > > a shot glass of vodka. Not even a QUARTER of a shot.> > > > > > Many (most) flower essences are made with brandy to preserve them. Brandy> > > has more alcohol per water content than vodka does. Supposedly the company> > > from England that produces Bach Flower Essences for years and years, said> > > that when you take a full dropper of an essences (made with brandy) that> it> > > s the same alcohol content in your system as eating one banana. Because> > > bananas convert to a tiny bit of alcohol during fermentation in your> stomach> > > At least that's the way it was explained to me.> > > > > > You can also make a tincture out of vegetable glycerin or apple cider> > > vinegar. You make them the same way as you do an alcohol tincture (the ACV> > > is much cheaper than the glycerin to buy though). But remember, that with> > > those, and the DMSO, you are not getting the constituents out that NEED> > > alcohol.> > > > > > But, if I was going to totally avoid alcohol then my next pick would be> the> > > DMSO. I think it would draw out much more than the ACV or glycerin.> > > > > > Samala,> > > Renee> > > > > > ----> > > > > > > > > Alcohol is forbidden to be ingested by cancer patients. Will making> tincture> > > using vodka not be harmful? Just asking before i make my tincture. Also> how> > > about using DMSO? Would DMSO be better than vodka?> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Renee, You are truly such a dear. Yes, i will do the double decoction. Thank you very much. Melly oleander soup , " Renee " <gaiacita wrote: > > Boy Melly, I don't know an answer to that! Maybe this means that there is > something in the alcohol gas--spirits--that bothers you, that is cooked off > when heated. The article about the chef's experiment with flaming alcohol > proves that whatever alcohol is chemically made up of is still in the food, > all of the alcohol fumes (gas, spirits?) is used up, gone. And apparently > you are proof of this. > > But for you, I would suggest buying enough red clover to last for the winter > and then making long decoctions of tea. You can even make a double > decoction, which simply means to make a cup of tea, strain the flowers out, > and add more new flowers to the same water and steep again. Don't add more > water, just use the same water--that way you are getting a double dose of > the flowers to make the tea stronger for you. > > Samala, > Renee > > ---- > > Thanks for your very informative reply. I am very allergic to alcohol, my > throat closes and i turn blue and have convulsions, that is if i drink even > one sip of " raw " alcoholic drink. However, if a viand is served and it has > been cooked with alcohol as an ingredient, it does not bother me at all, > even those sizzling platters don't bother me. I've been trying to figure out > what it is, maybe the " spirits " of the alcoholic drink? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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