Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 In a message dated 11/28/2009 12:44:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, micfo07 writes: thanks again everybody here, i will eventually read all the repliesyou guys did, about 2-3 per day. ____________ Olivier, please take comfort in the fact that she is in no pain anymore. I pray you have a dream of her very soon. My mom died 26 years ago at the decision of my aunt, and the agreement of the doctors, to let her IV run full speed rather than a drip. I disagree with that decision to this day. But when I do have a dream of my mom, it's just like I've spent the day with her, and she is not sick. Actually, I dream that she's in a boat. Not sure what that means, but it is a very calm and wonderful time. Thank you for being on the list, Olivier. Terri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Dearest Olivier,My heart broke reading your post. Your story is an all too common one. If your mother was coherent, she should have been asked to make the decision. Otherwise, the family should have been consulted. In no way should the doctors have taken it upon themselves to unplug her. However, In this day and age, this is happening more and more.I am glad that you have your aunt and your brother with you and I am very glad that your brother is keeping you busy. This might be the best thing for you right now. However, don't bottle up your emotions. Take time out to grieve, take time out to cry, and take time out to heal. Talking about how you feel and even sharing your story with us will aid in your healing journey and we are here for you for this purpose.May God bless you and comfort you Olivier,oleander soup , "ftfft" <micfo07 wrote:>> > Hi All,> thanks for all of your kind words> and advices.> > I have only read through half of the messages you guys> posted here. Im slow and read only a few at a time.> > Im sort of in denial mode here.> Surrounded by my brother and aunt, and have been> around them since it happened.> My brother keep me busy going to places for his job.> > So basically im protecting myself, kinda "enjoying"> my avoidance while it still last, which wont be for very long.> > Its still very painful, but i somehow have this thing> where i can push things deep inside, for a little while at least.> > I have to say one thing thats on my mind tho:> My mother had advanced pancreatic cancer, yes.> IT had spread to her liver and a bit to her lung, yes.> She had water in her lungs, and so a drain in each of her lung to drain out hte water, yes.> > But...> > One day we re told by the top doc that we ll take it one day> at a time, see in the next 24,48,78 hours how things go.> That she cant be hooked off the drains, for now at least,> and maybe forever. But we ll see if theres anything we can do.> > HE then said that a particular palliative place we were considering> wouldnt accept the drain machine so thi9s place was out of ther question.> > Then, the next morning, im being told by my aunt that> they unplugged her from her drains and whatever antibiotics/> and that water kind of liquid that feed you - because the cancer> is spreading a lot and basically we need to end her misery.> > Just before they did that, she could talk loud and had some vigor> (altough she couldnt get out of bed). The doc was even impressed> of the amount she had eaten of food(even tho it was still little> compared to normal people).> > The next morning tho, after being unplugged, she could barely talk.> and the next morning she was simply breathing once every 20 seconds, fighting for her life, not moving, eyes almost closed.> And they gave her 6 hours to live until her heart would stop and die.> She fought, you could sense it as she was breathing, sometimes> as she was breathing a little sound would come out.> She couldnt even move her fingers.> > Then at night over 10 hours later, she was still fighting,> much later than they anticipated(she had a strong heart),> but was breathing every 5-6 seconds, until she heart eventually gve in.> > What im getting into is, she started from eating more than the doc expected, and being told we d see over the next day and days> and see the pallative options, and she talked quite loud with her vigor.....to being unplugged without being consulted, not speaking> anymore 24 hours later, fighting to breat and die the next day.> > My 2nd brother, the one we dont like that was the only one there> beside my aunt at that moment, told me that they say she might live> another month if she was still hooked up, but she would just start> to suffer more and more so whats the use. My aunt said they say it was> 1 week, but from how she was doing, i think it would have been a month.> > And you know how they say pancreatic cancer is often 3-6 months,> and my mom was at 8 months, well the 1 month prediction might have> turned out to be 2.> > This means she might still have had a chance, but was unplugged> very quickly, about 15 hours after the doc told us we ll see how things go and take it from there.> > My mother was tired of being in bed and had some pain, and was> very unhappy there. But she also only heard there was nothing> that could be done, so of course she probably was thinking> she wanted this to end soon.(but btw, it wasnt even her decidsion to be unplugged, it was a bunch of docs)> > I knew there was still some hope, but when all the "pros"> keep hitting her with the impossible diagnotic..> > Its no concidence she lasted almost double the time before her heart gave out. She just wasnt ill enough to go - they had to let her> drown in the water in her lungs and remove the "water bag thing> that feed ill people" and all, for her to die asphixiated and deshydrated.> > Everytime someone fill in papers for us and ask "cause of death?",> i cringe and i just wanna say "asphyxiation and deshydratation".> They basically had to kill her for her to go away.> > > If at least they had given us a warning of the upcoming unglugging,> giving us a last chance to talk to her(because when they unplugged her, 10 hours later when we saw her, she could barely speak and> we often couldnt understand), and if we could have heard it straight from her mouth that she wanted to go - it would have been different.> > She was doing not so bad and we never heard anything directly from her> about wanting to go, and we re told, through my aunt, that they decided to and proceeded to unplug her.> > Im not going bezerk over this, as i know one can go crazy> going through the "what if" game,but i really feel like i and my mom> were cheated of a last hope - and the docs were so typical> of the medical world in their "lets cut/remove/drug/theres no hope" world.> > Wish she had been in an alternative treatment center as well.> > Ok, so this email got long as i wanted to share this.> > > thanks again everybody here, i will eventually read all the replies> you guys did, about 2-3 per day.> > thanks again> youre a great bunch> > Olivier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Olivier, Bless your heart. My mother-in-law did the same thing to my father-in-law several years ago, and, as a result, my husband had a nervous breakdown. Don't second guess anything that happened. You're right, doing so will just make you crazy. Your mom is still with you. As long as you know that and know that you love her and she loves you, you'll be fine. Our prayers are with you. Shara & Steve ftfft <micfo07 oleander soup Sat, Nov 28, 2009 12:43 pm Thanks all - Re: my mom died... Hi All, thanks for all of your kind words and advices. I have only read through half of the messages you guys posted here. Im slow and read only a few at a time. Im sort of in denial mode here. Surrounded by my brother and aunt, and have been around them since it happened. My brother keep me busy going to places for his job. So basically im protecting myself, kinda "enjoying" my avoidance while it still last, which wont be for very long. Its still very painful, but i somehow have this thing where i can push things deep inside, for a little while at least. I have to say one thing thats on my mind tho: My mother had advanced pancreatic cancer, yes. IT had spread to her liver and a bit to her lung, yes. She had water in her lungs, and so a drain in each of her lung to drain out hte water, yes. But... One day we re told by the top doc that we ll take it one day at a time, see in the next 24,48,78 hours how things go. That she cant be hooked off the drains, for now at least, and maybe forever. But we ll see if theres anything we can do. HE then said that a particular palliative place we were considering wouldnt accept the drain machine so thi9s place was out of ther question. Then, the next morning, im being told by my aunt that they unplugged her from her drains and whatever antibiotics/ and that water kind of liquid that feed you - because the cancer is spreading a lot and basically we need to end her misery. Just before they did that, she could talk loud and had some vigor (altough she couldnt get out of bed). The doc was even impressed of the amount she had eaten of food(even tho it was still little compared to normal people). The next morning tho, after being unplugged, she could barely talk. and the next morning she was simply breathing once every 20 seconds, fighting for her life, not moving, eyes almost closed. And they gave her 6 hours to live until her heart would stop and die. She fought, you could sense it as she was breathing, sometimes as she was breathing a little sound would come out. She couldnt even move her fingers. Then at night over 10 hours later, she was still fighting, much later than they anticipated(she had a strong heart), but was breathing every 5-6 seconds, until she heart eventually gve in. What im getting into is, she started from eating more than the doc expected, and being told we d see over the next day and days and see the pallative options, and she talked quite loud with her vigor.....to being unplugged without being consulted, not speaking anymore 24 hours later, fighting to breat and die the next day. My 2nd brother, the one we dont like that was the only one there beside my aunt at that moment, told me that they say she might live another month if she was still hooked up, but she would just start to suffer more and more so whats the use. My aunt said they say it was 1 week, but from how she was doing, i think it would have been a month. And you know how they say pancreatic cancer is often 3-6 months, and my mom was at 8 months, well the 1 month prediction might have turned out to be 2. This means she might still have had a chance, but was unplugged very quickly, about 15 hours after the doc told us we ll see how things go and take it from there. My mother was tired of being in bed and had some pain, and was very unhappy there. But she also only heard there was nothing that could be done, so of course she probably was thinking she wanted this to end soon.(but btw, it wasnt even her decidsion to be unplugged, it was a bunch of docs) I knew there was still some hope, but when all the "pros" keep hitting her with the impossible diagnotic.. Its no concidence she lasted almost double the time before her heart gave out. She just wasnt ill enough to go - they had to let her drown in the water in her lungs and remove the "water bag thing that feed ill people" and all, for her to die asphixiated and deshydrated. Everytime someone fill in papers for us and ask "cause of death?", i cringe and i just wanna say "asphyxiation and deshydratation". They basically had to kill her for her to go away. If at least they had given us a warning of the upcoming unglugging, giving us a last chance to talk to her(because when they unplugged her, 10 hours later when we saw her, she could barely speak and we often couldnt understand), and if we could have heard it straight from her mouth that she wanted to go - it would have been different. She was doing not so bad and we never heard anything directly from her about wanting to go, and we re told, through my aunt, that they decided to and proceeded to unplug her. Im not going bezerk over this, as i know one can go crazy going through the "what if" game,but i really feel like i and my mom were cheated of a last hope - and the docs were so typical of the medical world in their "lets cut/remove/drug/theres no hope" world. Wish she had been in an alternative treatment center as well. Ok, so this email got long as i wanted to share this. thanks again everybody here, i will eventually read all the replies you guys did, about 2-3 per day. thanks again youre a great bunch Olivier oleander soup , bk4529 wrote: > > > Olivier, > I too lost both my parents and a sister in April of this year. > My sister died of lung cancer. It's not easy losing a loved one. I still miss my mom > who's been gone 42 years! I miss my sister too so very much! > We still have those precious memories and we know that we must go on. > Our parents would want that and your mom wants that for you too. > For you to go out and find someone who needs you just as you needed your mom. > There's so many people who needs that help. Please reach out to them. You'll not > only be helping them but helping yourself through this grief. > You're in my thoughts and prayers. > God Bless, > Barbara > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hi Olivier. You lose your mom under strange surcomstances without knowing why the doctors took her of the ventolator, yes you are in denial and suffer for it, but believe me the pain will ease with the passing of time, but the love you two share will stay in your heart for ever. I dont say it's ok that she's gone Olivier, what i'm saying is she's not in pain or suffer no more and that should give you some comfort, tressure your memories of her and try to do what you think she would want you to do. Be happy and healthy for you and her. Take care and allow time to heal your pain, and dont forget we are here for you. Hugs Mary - ftfft oleander soup Sunday, November 29, 2009 5:43 AM Thanks all - Re: my mom died... Hi All,thanks for all of your kind wordsand advices.I have only read through half of the messages you guysposted here. Im slow and read only a few at a time.Im sort of in denial mode here.Surrounded by my brother and aunt, and have beenaround them since it happened.My brother keep me busy going to places for his job.So basically im protecting myself, kinda "enjoying"my avoidance while it still last, which wont be for very long.Its still very painful, but i somehow have this thingwhere i can push things deep inside, for a little while at least.I have to say one thing thats on my mind tho:My mother had advanced pancreatic cancer, yes.IT had spread to her liver and a bit to her lung, yes.She had water in her lungs, and so a drain in each of her lung to drain out hte water, yes.But...One day we re told by the top doc that we ll take it one dayat a time, see in the next 24,48,78 hours how things go.That she cant be hooked off the drains, for now at least,and maybe forever. But we ll see if theres anything we can do.HE then said that a particular palliative place we were consideringwouldnt accept the drain machine so thi9s place was out of ther question.Then, the next morning, im being told by my aunt thatthey unplugged her from her drains and whatever antibiotics/and that water kind of liquid that feed you - because the canceris spreading a lot and basically we need to end her misery.Just before they did that, she could talk loud and had some vigor(altough she couldnt get out of bed). The doc was even impressedof the amount she had eaten of food(even tho it was still littlecompared to normal people).The next morning tho, after being unplugged, she could barely talk.and the next morning she was simply breathing once every 20 seconds, fighting for her life, not moving, eyes almost closed.And they gave her 6 hours to live until her heart would stop and die.She fought, you could sense it as she was breathing, sometimesas she was breathing a little sound would come out.She couldnt even move her fingers.Then at night over 10 hours later, she was still fighting,much later than they anticipated(she had a strong heart),but was breathing every 5-6 seconds, until she heart eventually gve in.What im getting into is, she started from eating more than the doc expected, and being told we d see over the next day and daysand see the pallative options, and she talked quite loud with her vigor.....to being unplugged without being consulted, not speakinganymore 24 hours later, fighting to breat and die the next day.My 2nd brother, the one we dont like that was the only one therebeside my aunt at that moment, told me that they say she might liveanother month if she was still hooked up, but she would just startto suffer more and more so whats the use. My aunt said they say it was1 week, but from how she was doing, i think it would have been a month.And you know how they say pancreatic cancer is often 3-6 months,and my mom was at 8 months, well the 1 month prediction might haveturned out to be 2.This means she might still have had a chance, but was unpluggedvery quickly, about 15 hours after the doc told us we ll see how things go and take it from there.My mother was tired of being in bed and had some pain, and wasvery unhappy there. But she also only heard there was nothingthat could be done, so of course she probably was thinkingshe wanted this to end soon.(but btw, it wasnt even her decidsion to be unplugged, it was a bunch of docs)I knew there was still some hope, but when all the "pros"keep hitting her with the impossible diagnotic..Its no concidence she lasted almost double the time before her heart gave out. She just wasnt ill enough to go - they had to let herdrown in the water in her lungs and remove the "water bag thingthat feed ill people" and all, for her to die asphixiated and deshydrated.Everytime someone fill in papers for us and ask "cause of death?",i cringe and i just wanna say "asphyxiation and deshydratation".They basically had to kill her for her to go away.If at least they had given us a warning of the upcoming unglugging,giving us a last chance to talk to her(because when they unplugged her, 10 hours later when we saw her, she could barely speak andwe often couldnt understand), and if we could have heard it straight from her mouth that she wanted to go - it would have been different.She was doing not so bad and we never heard anything directly from herabout wanting to go, and we re told, through my aunt, that they decided to and proceeded to unplug her.Im not going bezerk over this, as i know one can go crazygoing through the "what if" game,but i really feel like i and my momwere cheated of a last hope - and the docs were so typicalof the medical world in their "lets cut/remove/drug/theres no hope" world.Wish she had been in an alternative treatment center as well.Ok, so this email got long as i wanted to share this.thanks again everybody here, i will eventually read all the repliesyou guys did, about 2-3 per day.thanks againyoure a great bunchOlivieroleander soup , bk4529 wrote:>> > Olivier,> I too lost both my parents and a sister in April of this year. > My sister died of lung cancer. It's not easy losing a loved one. I still miss my mom> who's been gone 42 years! I miss my sister too so very much! > We still have those precious memories and we know that we must go on.> Our parents would want that and your mom wants that for you too. > For you to go out and find someone who needs you just as you needed your mom.> There's so many people who needs that help. Please reach out to them. You'll not> only be helping them but helping yourself through this grief. > You're in my thoughts and prayers.> God Bless,> Barbara> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 My heart-felt condolences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Has anyone heard from Oliver? I have been ill with a bad sinus infection so I have not diligently read the emails, however I haven't seen any post from him since his mother went home. I am concernd. Oliver if you read this, please post and let us know how you are doing. Barbara N Germany--- On Sat, 11/28/09, robertselisa <robertselisa wrote: robertselisa <robertselisa Re: Thanks all - Re: my mom died...oleander soup Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 10:59 PM My heart-felt condolences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hi Barbara. Yes Olivier post the group yestarday. Sorry to hear you are not feeling well , can i suggest something you can use for your sinus ? ok here it goes. 10 ml water 5 ml colloidal silver 5ml Hydrogen peroxide 3- drops Peppermint essential oil 3-drops Tea tree oil 3-drops Eucalyptus oil. Mix well in a spray bottle and use 2-3 times daily. This is my own mixture i use after i suffer a bad sinus last year, is not a cure but helps you to breath easier. Hope this help you a bit. Hugs Mary - barbara elenniss oleander soup Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:57 PM Re: Re: Thanks all - Re: my mom died... Has anyone heard from Oliver? I have been ill with a bad sinus infection so I have not diligently read the emails, however I haven't seen any post from him since his mother went home. I am concernd. Oliver if you read this, please post and let us know how you are doing. Barbara N Germany--- On Sat, 11/28/09, robertselisa <robertselisa (AT) bellsouth (DOT) net> wrote: robertselisa <robertselisa (AT) bellsouth (DOT) net> Re: Thanks all - Re: my mom died...oleander soup Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 10:59 PM My heart-felt condolences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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