Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 The toxicity of oleander is due to the cardiac glycosides. However, a properly filtered water extract of oleander is virtually free of the cardiac glycosides because they are NOT soluble in water. The effect of licorice in enhancing the toxic effects of oleander is thus not really applicable in the case of water extracts of oleander. In fact, the long term use of the oleander extract can slightly elevate potassium levels whereas licorice has the opposite effect, which is a good thing. There are other effects of licorice which are more important. A discussion of licorice from http://www.liverdisease.com/herbsother_hepatitis.html states the following: "The active ingredients of licorice come from its roots and are believed by some to be due to glycyrrhizic acid, which also accounts for licorice’s sweet taste. This acid functions similarly to the body’s own naturally occurring hormone, aldosterone, which regulates salt and water in the body. Thus, side effects of licorice may include high blood pressure, water retention, and potassium depletion. It is important to avoid licorice during pregnancy. Also, people who have glaucoma, heart disease, or high blood pressure should avoid licorice. Licorice has been shown in some experimental studies to stimulate production of the body’s natural supply of interferon. This may account for its popularity in Japan where it is sometimes used in the treatment of chronic viral hepatitis. When used intravenously, licorice has been demonstrated to lower liver enzymes. However, these results have not been confirmed, and some studies have concluded that licorice provides no beneficial effects on the liver in humans. Furthermore, it has been noted that if licorice is taken for more than one week, there is an increased risk of serious side effects, such as high blood pressure or dangerously low potassium levels. Sustained beneficial effects from licorice use have not been clearly demonstrated. The PDR for Herbal Medicines states that licorice is contraindicated (use is inadvisable) in people with chronic hepatitis, cholestatic liver disease, and cirrhosis. Licorice may contain iron and should therefore be avoided by people with iron overload diseases, such as hemochromatosis and sometimes chronic hepatitis C. Licorice may interact adversely with the steroid drug prednisone. Prednisone is used in the treatment of autoimmune hepatitis (AIH) and after liver transplantation as an immunosuppressant. Licorice may cause levels of this steroid to become dangerously elevated, thereby resulting in low potassium levels as well as salt and water retention. Licorice can also counteract the effects of the water pill (diuretic) spironolactone, used in the treatment of ascites. Finally, licorice has been shown to decrease testosterone levels. Thus, men suffering from decreased libido, which can occur in people with cirrhosis, as a side effect of interferon therapy (for hepatitis C), and as a side effect of many antidepressive medications (such as Celexa), should avoid taking licorice". One of the effects of oleander is to increase the level of glutathione in the body. There are many skin lightening mixtures on the market containing both licorice and glutathione, which means the manufacturers are not too worried about contraindications there. Finally, if I have to chose between stopping licorice or oleander, I would rather stop taking the licorice. Marc Swanepoel - ChristinaB oleander soup Thursday, November 26, 2009 4:53 AM oleander & licorice interactions? I am thankful to Dr. Lanphier for this list of possible interactions (in her post below). But would appreciate any thoughts on using Sutherlandia OPC with a TCM supplement called "9405" which has licorice as one of its ingredients. Based on the dosage taken per day, it's about 300 mg of licorice that he'd be getting in possible conjunction with OPC Sutherlandia.Short history: Our dog Mukki was dx'd with bone cancer in Jan. of this year. Because he was almost 11 at the time (old for a great pyrenees) and because he had existing arthritis and mobility issues, we opted not to amputate and to treat holistically primarily with a combination of TCM, arte derivatives, and homeopathics (along with pain meds, one NSAID, a bisphosphonate, and various other supplements to support his immune system, including medicinal mushrooms).We tried Sutherlandia OPC in Aug. of this year and worked up to 2 pills per day. However, he seemed to not do as well, preferring to lie on his side for much of the day (as opposed to being alert and interested). He is on IP-6/Inositol & Butyrex as well. So we pulled him off the OPC and he seemed better.Now, however, after over 10 months of fabulous quality of life, he's limping on a different leg and the original tumor (on another leg) is starting to grow again. I suspect either the ART is no longer working for him, or the TCM is failing as he's now clearly in more pain. I realize there's an oleander group for Pets and am on there as well- but would very much appreciate feedback from this group as to interactions with licorice. I'm reluctant to take him off the "9405" (by Meditalent) because its primary ingredients (Ginsenoside Rh2, Cordyceps S, & Reishi) have been very helpful to Mukki's stamina & spirits. However, I feel that we may lose him soon if I don't bring in an active cancer fighter soon (other than just immune support).The full list of what he's on is here:http://dogmu.com/blog/?page_id=13The above list is only missing the Jing Tang herbals & 2 homeopathics we added back in: Hecla Lava & Aurum. Jing Tang ingredients are here:http://dogmu.com/blog/?page_id=30*Although just in the past 24 hours, we pulled Stasis Breaker after a consult with our acupuncturist as he believes it's too strong a formula and doesn't address the right kind of cancer (which has most likely metastasized by this point).While it may be his time, his spirit is still quite strong and I'm going to continue to try to trouble-shoot this for as much time as we're given. Thank you for any feedback or thoughts.Best,Christinaoleander soup , "Dr. Loretta Lanphier" <drlanphier wrote:>> Hi Mike> > Since your wife is on other natural products you may want to take a look at:> <http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/cimer/display.cfm?id=737870D0-880E-48> 33-A3D564663545988F & method=displayFull>> http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/cimer/display.cfm?id=737870D0-880E-483> 3-A3D564663545988F & method=displayFull This is MD Anderson's> complimentary/alternative medicine page about oleander. Anyone that is> using oleander needs to at least be aware of the following. Because I> respect the power of herbs, I understand the importance of knowing even the> "possibilities" of any interactions. I would imagine that they are erring> on the side of extreme caution but again, it's always better to educate> before medicating - even if it is natural medicine. Everyone is different> in their lifestyles and biochemistry so while one may react, someone else> may not. > > > > Interactions with Herbs and Dietary Supplements> > Common oleander and yellow oleander contain cardiac glycoside heart-active> substances. Herbs or supplements that may cause increased heart> effects/damage if taken with oleander include: adonis, balloon cotton, black> hellebore root/melampode, black Indian hemp, bushman's poison, cactus> grandifloris, convallaria, eyebright, figwort, foxglove/digitalis,> frangipani, hedge mustard, hemp root/Canadian hemp root, king's crown,> lily-of-the-valley, motherwort, pheasant's eye plant, plantain leaf,> pleurisy root, psyllium husks, redheaded cotton-bush, rhubarb root, rubber> vine, sea-mango, senna fruit, squill, strophanthus, uzara, wallflower,> wintersweet and yellow dock root. Notably, bufalin/Chan Suis is a Chinese> herbal formula that has been reported as toxic or fatal when taken with> cardiac glycosides.> > > > Toxic effects of oleander on the heart may be increased if used with calcium> supplements or herbs that lower potassium levels, such as licorice.> Potassium levels theoretically may be reduced by herbs and supplements with> laxative properties such as senna or psyllium, or herbs and supplements with> diuretic properties (increasing urine flow) such as artichoke, celery, corn> silk, couchgrass, dandelion, elder flower, horsetail, juniper berry, kava,> shepherd's purse, uva ursi, yarrow. Laxative herbs include alder buckthorn,> aloe dried leaf sap, black root, blue flag rhizome, butternut bark, dong> quai, European buckthorn, eyebright, cascara bark, castor oil, chasteberry,> colocynth fruit pulp, dandelion, gamboges bark, horsetail, jalap root, manna> bark, plantain leaf, podophyllum root, psyllium, rhubarb, senna, wild> cucumber fruit and yellow dock root.> > > > > > Be Well~> Loretta> > > > > Tony's note: This is really good information to have, and I agree that it> they are likely erring on the side of extreme caution - especially since> there are virtually no records to be found anywhere of death or serious> injury as a result of taking the oleander medications, supplements and> remedies that have been discussed in this forum - and I would also point out> that an ethanol extraction of oleander is used for heart conditions in> Russia, as well as for vertigo.> > > > Nevertheless, it would be a good idea to not mix oleander with supplements> containing any of the listed herbs.> > > > Thanks for the information. - Tony> > > > > > _____ > > oleander soup oleander soup On> Behalf Of Mike Golden> Friday, April 25, 2008 3:36 PM> oleander soup > Re: The amazing number of cancer fighting and immune> boosting compounds in oleander> > > > Tony,> > My wife has metastatic breast cancer. Two years ago she had a mastectomy> with a TRAM reconstruction, but has never had chemotherapy or radiation.> She received her current diagnosis in late December. In the last eight> weeks we have been on a program of LDN, Cantron, Paw Paw and pulsed doses> of artemisinin at night (4 days on and three days off). We have been> observing the contraindications regarding nutrients that might work counter> to the ATP inhibition of the Cantron and Paw Paw. In the last few weeks> tumor markers in the blood have decreased 35 points (from 197), and the> tumors sites ache within 10 minutes of taking Cantron. > In your opinion, can Sutherlandia OPC (we have it) be combined with what we> are doing? From what I have read concerning the hypothetical mechanisms of> SOPC, it does not look like something that would have an effect of> stimulating electron transport, and that it might, therefore be compatible> with what we are already doing. I hope this is so.> Your thoughts?> > Thank you!> > Mike Golden, D.C.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Thanks so much, Marc, for your thoughtful and detailed response. It's very much appreciated. Today, we'll be able to try 2 caps. Best, Christina oleander soup , " Marc Swanepoel - PhD " <marcswan wrote: > > The toxicity of oleander is due to the cardiac glycosides. However, a properly filtered water extract of oleander is virtually free of the cardiac glycosides because they are NOT soluble in water. The effect of licorice in enhancing the toxic effects of oleander is thus not really applicable in the case of water extracts of oleander. In fact, the long term use of the oleander extract can slightly elevate potassium levels whereas licorice has the opposite effect, which is a good thing. > > There are other effects of licorice which are more important. A discussion of licorice from http://www.liverdisease.com/herbsother_hepatitis.html states the following: > > " The active ingredients of licorice come from its roots and are believed by some to be due to glycyrrhizic acid, which also accounts for licorice's sweet taste. This acid functions similarly to the body's own naturally occurring hormone, aldosterone, which regulates salt and water in the body. Thus, side effects of licorice may include high blood pressure, water retention, and potassium depletion. It is important to avoid licorice during pregnancy. Also, people who have glaucoma, heart disease, or high blood pressure should avoid licorice. > Licorice has been shown in some experimental studies to stimulate production of the body's natural supply of interferon. This may account for its popularity in Japan where it is sometimes used in the treatment of chronic viral hepatitis. When used intravenously, licorice has been demonstrated to lower liver enzymes. However, these results have not been confirmed, and some studies have concluded that licorice provides no beneficial effects on the liver in humans. Furthermore, it has been noted that if licorice is taken for more than one week, there is an increased risk of serious side effects, such as high blood pressure or dangerously low potassium levels. Sustained beneficial effects from licorice use have not been clearly demonstrated. The PDR for Herbal Medicines states that licorice is contraindicated (use is inadvisable) in people with chronic hepatitis, cholestatic liver disease, and cirrhosis. Licorice may contain iron and should therefore be avoided by people with iron overload diseases, such as hemochromatosis and sometimes chronic hepatitis C. Licorice may interact adversely with the steroid drug prednisone. Prednisone is used in the treatment of autoimmune hepatitis (AIH) and after liver transplantation as an immunosuppressant. Licorice may cause levels of this steroid to become dangerously elevated, thereby resulting in low potassium levels as well as salt and water retention. Licorice can also counteract the effects of the water pill (diuretic) spironolactone, used in the treatment of ascites. Finally, licorice has been shown to decrease testosterone levels. Thus, men suffering from decreased libido, which can occur in people with cirrhosis, as a side effect of interferon therapy (for hepatitis C), and as a side effect of many antidepressive medications (such as Celexa), should avoid taking licorice " . > > One of the effects of oleander is to increase the level of glutathione in the body. There are many skin lightening mixtures on the market containing both licorice and glutathione, which means the manufacturers are not too worried about contraindications there. > > Finally, if I have to chose between stopping licorice or oleander, I would rather stop taking the licorice. > > Marc Swanepoel > > - > ChristinaB > oleander soup > Thursday, November 26, 2009 4:53 AM > oleander & licorice interactions? > > > > I am thankful to Dr. Lanphier for this list of possible interactions (in her post below). But would appreciate any thoughts on using Sutherlandia OPC with a TCM supplement called " 9405 " which has licorice as one of its ingredients. Based on the dosage taken per day, it's about 300 mg of licorice that he'd be getting in possible conjunction with OPC Sutherlandia. > > Short history: Our dog Mukki was dx'd with bone cancer in Jan. of this year. Because he was almost 11 at the time (old for a great pyrenees) and because he had existing arthritis and mobility issues, we opted not to amputate and to treat holistically primarily with a combination of TCM, arte derivatives, and homeopathics (along with pain meds, one NSAID, a bisphosphonate, and various other supplements to support his immune system, including medicinal mushrooms). > > We tried Sutherlandia OPC in Aug. of this year and worked up to 2 pills per day. However, he seemed to not do as well, preferring to lie on his side for much of the day (as opposed to being alert and interested). He is on IP-6/Inositol & Butyrex as well. So we pulled him off the OPC and he seemed better. > > Now, however, after over 10 months of fabulous quality of life, he's limping on a different leg and the original tumor (on another leg) is starting to grow again. I suspect either the ART is no longer working for him, or the TCM is failing as he's now clearly in more pain. I realize there's an oleander group for Pets and am on there as well- but would very much appreciate feedback from this group as to interactions with licorice. I'm reluctant to take him off the " 9405 " (by Meditalent) because its primary ingredients (Ginsenoside Rh2, Cordyceps S, & Reishi) have been very helpful to Mukki's stamina & spirits. However, I feel that we may lose him soon if I don't bring in an active cancer fighter soon (other than just immune support). > > The full list of what he's on is here: > http://dogmu.com/blog/?page_id=13 > > The above list is only missing the Jing Tang herbals & 2 homeopathics we added back in: Hecla Lava & Aurum. Jing Tang ingredients are here: > http://dogmu.com/blog/?page_id=30 > *Although just in the past 24 hours, we pulled Stasis Breaker after a consult with our acupuncturist as he believes it's too strong a formula and doesn't address the right kind of cancer (which has most likely metastasized by this point). > > While it may be his time, his spirit is still quite strong and I'm going to continue to try to trouble-shoot this for as much time as we're given. Thank you for any feedback or thoughts. > > Best, > Christina > > oleander soup , " Dr. Loretta Lanphier " <drlanphier@> wrote: > > > > Hi Mike > > > > Since your wife is on other natural products you may want to take a look at: > > <http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/cimer/display.cfm?id=737870D0-880E-48 > > 33-A3D564663545988F & method=displayFull> > > http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/cimer/display.cfm?id=737870D0-880E-483 > > 3-A3D564663545988F & method=displayFull This is MD Anderson's > > complimentary/alternative medicine page about oleander. Anyone that is > > using oleander needs to at least be aware of the following. Because I > > respect the power of herbs, I understand the importance of knowing even the > > " possibilities " of any interactions. I would imagine that they are erring > > on the side of extreme caution but again, it's always better to educate > > before medicating - even if it is natural medicine. Everyone is different > > in their lifestyles and biochemistry so while one may react, someone else > > may not. > > > > > > > > Interactions with Herbs and Dietary Supplements > > > > Common oleander and yellow oleander contain cardiac glycoside heart-active > > substances. Herbs or supplements that may cause increased heart > > effects/damage if taken with oleander include: adonis, balloon cotton, black > > hellebore root/melampode, black Indian hemp, bushman's poison, cactus > > grandifloris, convallaria, eyebright, figwort, foxglove/digitalis, > > frangipani, hedge mustard, hemp root/Canadian hemp root, king's crown, > > lily-of-the-valley, motherwort, pheasant's eye plant, plantain leaf, > > pleurisy root, psyllium husks, redheaded cotton-bush, rhubarb root, rubber > > vine, sea-mango, senna fruit, squill, strophanthus, uzara, wallflower, > > wintersweet and yellow dock root. Notably, bufalin/Chan Suis is a Chinese > > herbal formula that has been reported as toxic or fatal when taken with > > cardiac glycosides. > > > > > > > > Toxic effects of oleander on the heart may be increased if used with calcium > > supplements or herbs that lower potassium levels, such as licorice. > > Potassium levels theoretically may be reduced by herbs and supplements with > > laxative properties such as senna or psyllium, or herbs and supplements with > > diuretic properties (increasing urine flow) such as artichoke, celery, corn > > silk, couchgrass, dandelion, elder flower, horsetail, juniper berry, kava, > > shepherd's purse, uva ursi, yarrow. Laxative herbs include alder buckthorn, > > aloe dried leaf sap, black root, blue flag rhizome, butternut bark, dong > > quai, European buckthorn, eyebright, cascara bark, castor oil, chasteberry, > > colocynth fruit pulp, dandelion, gamboges bark, horsetail, jalap root, manna > > bark, plantain leaf, podophyllum root, psyllium, rhubarb, senna, wild > > cucumber fruit and yellow dock root. > > > > > > > > > > > > Be Well~ > > Loretta > > > > > > > > > > Tony's note: This is really good information to have, and I agree that it > > they are likely erring on the side of extreme caution - especially since > > there are virtually no records to be found anywhere of death or serious > > injury as a result of taking the oleander medications, supplements and > > remedies that have been discussed in this forum - and I would also point out > > that an ethanol extraction of oleander is used for heart conditions in > > Russia, as well as for vertigo. > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, it would be a good idea to not mix oleander with supplements > > containing any of the listed herbs. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the information. - > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > oleander soup oleander soup On > > Behalf Of Mike Golden > > Friday, April 25, 2008 3:36 PM > > oleander soup > > Re: The amazing number of cancer fighting and immune > > boosting compounds in oleander > > > > > > > > Tony, > > > > My wife has metastatic breast cancer. Two years ago she had a mastectomy > > with a TRAM reconstruction, but has never had chemotherapy or radiation. > > She received her current diagnosis in late December. In the last eight > > weeks we have been on a program of LDN, Cantron, Paw Paw and pulsed doses > > of artemisinin at night (4 days on and three days off). We have been > > observing the contraindications regarding nutrients that might work counter > > to the ATP inhibition of the Cantron and Paw Paw. In the last few weeks > > tumor markers in the blood have decreased 35 points (from 197), and the > > tumors sites ache within 10 minutes of taking Cantron. > > In your opinion, can Sutherlandia OPC (we have it) be combined with what we > > are doing? From what I have read concerning the hypothetical mechanisms of > > SOPC, it does not look like something that would have an effect of > > stimulating electron transport, and that it might, therefore be compatible > > with what we are already doing. I hope this is so. > > Your thoughts? > > > > Thank you! > > > > Mike Golden, D.C. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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