Graviola and Sutherlandia OPC

[Guest guest]

Hi Cheryl,

 

Graviola and oleander work on two different and probably opposing principles. Graviola, Paw-paw extract, and plants containing acetogenins (as well as products like Cantron, Protocell and the chemo drug Tarceva), work on the principle that if an energy drop (reduced ATP) can be induced in cells, especially fast growing cells like tumor cells, then the process of 'apoptosis' or cell suicide will take place. Oleander and many other treatments, on the other hand, work on the opposing principle that it is easier to restore proper mitochondrial function by increasing cellular glutathione and improving other cellular functions. One can thus, for example, not use Graviola and NAC (which helps to synthesize glutathione) at the same time, neither is it advisable to use Graviola and oleander at the same time.

 

I have written something on paw-paw and Graviola before, and I have included it again hereunder.

 

Marc Swanepoel

 

All cells require energy in the form of Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP). This substance cannot be stored in the cells and at any stage we have enough to last for about 3 to 5 seconds. It is thus a continuous process. A few billion years ago, before there was oxygen in the atmosphere, primitive cells (eukaryotes) evolved the process of producing ATP energy without the use of oxygen by a process of glycolysis. Later on in the evolutionary process, when oxygen became part of the atmosphere, certain types of bacteria evolved a much more efficient way of producing ATP by utilizing oxygen through a process known as oxidative phosphorylation (OXPHOS). This new process was roughly 20 times more efficient than the glycolysis process. Roughly two billion years ago, these bacteria and the original eukaryotes fused into a symbiotically functioning and more complex cell system. Researchers now acknowledge that the bacterial component of cells is the cellular mitochondria. All cells, with the exclusion of red blood cells, can have thousands of the mitochondria. These new "symbionts" can switch between the two systems of ATP production, depending on the demands of the cells. During the fetal stage and repair of cell damage, it switches to the ATP production from glucose in the cytoplasm. During the cell differentiation stage, it switches to the OXPHOS system of oxidative ATP production in the cell mitochondria. The switching system itself is controlled by an intricate signaling system that depends on the permeability of the mitochondrial membrane and its influence on the Ca 2+ cycle, the electrical charge across the mitochondrial membrane and other factors. All these factors, in turn, are modulated by the so-called thiol pool of which glutathione is the most important component.When body cells are under oxidative or nitrosative stresses caused by environmental factors and/or life style, the thiol pool normally gets depleted and, with it, the ability of the mitochondria to produce ATP through the OXPHOS system. As a defensive measure, the mitochondrial switch puts the cells into the more primitive way of survival by reverting to the much less efficient enzymatic production of ATP in the cytoplasm. If the aforementioned stresses are chronic, the switch remains in this position and we call the condition "cancer" - identified by the undifferentiated division of cells.If the cut-off of ATP production by the OXPHOS system is sudden, the cells will die and the process is known as 'necrosis' or sudden cell death. If it is more gradual, the affected cells can 'commit suicide', a process know as 'apoptosis'. Treatments like the acetogenins in Paw-Paw extract, Graviola and similar plants, (as well as Cantron and Protocel) have the effect of reducing the ATP in all cells and it is then hoped that the described 'apoptosis' of cancer cells will take place. Because of the fact that the ATP production of ALL cells is reduced, one can feel very tired when using these supplements.Another very important fact is that the apoptosis of cancer cells will only take place if the mitochondrial membrane is still permeable and the CA 2+ cycle is still working. In all advanced cancers, this permeability is blocked as part of the defense mechanism of cells and apoptosis CANNOT take place, however much Paw-Paw extract, Graviola, or any ATP reducing supplement one takes. One can thus see that the treatment will work in some cases where the cancer is at a stage where the mitochondrial switch is still fluctuating between the two methods of ATP production. This 'window of opportunity' is relatively short and when metastases have appeared, it is normally a sign that the mitochondrial membranes are blocked. The only alternative is then to reactivate the mitochondrial switch by getting rid of the oxidative and nitrosative stresses, and by topping up the depleted glutathione. Nothing else will work.

 

 

The danger in using substances that will reduce ATP and/or glutathione is twofold. As the reduction of ATP and/or glutathione is not restricted to cancer cells it can (a) result in cells that are not yet cancerous becoming cancerous and (b) result in fungal and bacterial overgrowth that can be dangerous for weakened patients. If one looks up the known side-effects of Tarceva, one will see that they are all associated with a reduction in energy and the inability of cells to defend themselves against internal pathogens (fatigue, rash, infection, mouth sores, etc).

 

 

-

Cheryl

oleander soup

Friday, October 30, 2009 12:36 PM

Cheryl Re: Is anyone here using Graviola?

The scans weren't great. The brain tumors are shrinking or stable for now but the lung cancer in in my right lung is growing again and there is a spot on my left lung. I've been on Graviola since March but only started Oleander on Aug. 17th and my scans were on Oct. 3rd. Still hoping something kicks in and buys me a remission of sorts.thanks for asking Rachel.Cheryloleander soup , Lady Pilgrim <Ladypilgrim wrote:>> Hi Cheryl> Well how did it go?> I'm hoping you have some good news to share with us.> > Thanks,> Rachel> > > Cheryl wrote:> > I take 30 Graviola drops three times a day in a drink and seem to tolerate it very well. My next scans are on Oct. 7th so I have no idea if they are helping yet but I'll keep you posted.> > Cheryl> >> >> >>