new member-TCM and obesity

[Guest guest]

Greetings to all!

I am a 57 year old male living in the New York area. I

pracrice gigong, taijichuan, as well as yoga and

aerobics (treadmill). I go for acupuncture regularly.

I suffered several minute strokes (not TIAs), and have

almost completely recovered. TCM has worked wonders

for me. Two problems remained untouched, however. The

DOMs I consulted could do nothing for my hypertension,

and I had to resort to Western medicine which brought

it under control. The other is obesity (I am about 90

lbs. overweight). I have heard of 2 DOMs who claim

success in thos area, Dr. Nan Lu and Dr. Tom Tam. Does

anyone know about either of these men, or have other

suggestions?

Respectfully,

Jeffrey Siegel

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jeffrey:

 

Chinese medicine does indeed have acupuncture points

for weight loss as well as herbal formulas. Best

results might come from using both methods at the same

time. I can't tell you about either of those

practitioners but you might ask whether they know

about these methods. If they don't, you might find one

who does know.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jack

 

--- J siegel <rebsiegel wrote:

 

> Greetings to all!

> I am a 57 year old male living in the New York area.

> I

> pracrice gigong, taijichuan, as well as yoga and

> aerobics (treadmill). I go for acupuncture

> regularly.

> I suffered several minute strokes (not TIAs), and

> have

> almost completely recovered. TCM has worked wonders

> for me. Two problems remained untouched, however.

> The

> DOMs I consulted could do nothing for my

> hypertension,

> and I had to resort to Western medicine which

> brought

> it under control. The other is obesity (I am about

> 90

> lbs. overweight). I have heard of 2 DOMs who claim

> success in thos area, Dr. Nan Lu and Dr. Tom Tam.

> Does

> anyone know about either of these men, or have other

> suggestions?

> Respectfully,

> Jeffrey Siegel

>

>

>

>

______________________________\

____

> Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate

> in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A.

>

http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396545367

>

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Jack Sweeney

<mojavecowboy wrote:

>

> Chinese medicine does indeed have acupuncture points

> for weight loss as well as herbal formulas. Best

> results might come from using both methods at the same

> time.

 

Obesity is one of the TCM topics I'm trying to research in depth.

Will appreciate any info you and others have.

 

One thing I want to point out for list members who are new to TCM is

that Ma Huang (Herba Ephedra) is NOT used for weight loss in TCM

because it's use can aggravate one of the more common Roots of

obesity: Qi Deficiency. Ma Huang has its uses in TCM, but weight loss

isn't one of them.

 

I also want to point out that TCM recognizes a much broader range of

healthy weights than much of the West does. For example, a woman who

is a size 14, 16, or even an 18 (in the case of tall women) is not

necessarily overweight by TCM standards. In fact, her dieting to get

down to a lower size could result in harm to her health and even set

her up for weight gain. TCM recognizes that there are people whose

optimal and natural weight is lower than that of other people, and

people whose optimal and natural weight is more than others'. So

anyone seeking to use TCM to get down to a size 2 is barking up the

wrong tree unless that is the person's optimal and natural weight.

 

Warner J-W. Fan, M.D., has this to say about obesity in A Manual of

Chinese Herbal Medicine: Principles & Practice for Easy Reference:

 

" Obese: often deficiency of Qi, which also circulates poorly, so that

Dampness often accumulates and causes Phlegm; Wind invasion is also

common. " (p.121.)

 

Deficiency of Qi is very important. The causes of obsity are

varied. These are some individuals who will lose weight just by

exercising because the underlying cause of their obesity is they are

too sedentary. like Western allopathic medicine - recognizes

the importance of proper (for the individual) physical activity in

good health. Like clothing sizes, what is the proper level for an

individual can vary a lot.

 

There are cases where putting a person on an improper exercise

program is the worst thing one can do for obesity and will even make

the obesity worse because it aggravates the underlying Root. These

are people with weak Spleens whose Qi Deficiency is not mild. Over-

activity weakens the Spleen and Spleen Qi. Weak Spleen Qi cannot

perform two of its key functions of " transporting " and " transforming "

liquids, and Dampness accumulates as a result. Over time, this

Dampness congels into Phlegm. Dampness and Phlegm can take the form

of excess weight. The person simply does not have enough Qi for the

physical activity, and forcing oneself to exercise improperly will

further weaken the Spleen and the Qi. What is proper exercise in

these cases is limited Qi Gong. Also Qi tonic and Spleen-

strengthening herbs. As the Spleen Qi increases and the Spleen

becomes stronger, the person can do more and more physical activity.

 

I also want to caution readers against limiting calories too much in

the case of a person who is severely Qi Deficient. Doing so can

possibly result in death for the person. The Spleen and digestion

aren't very efficient, and by limiting calories too much, the person

may be deprived of critically needed Qi and nutrients. Diets of 2,000

or more calories a day may in some of these cases be what is needed

until the Spleen and Qi situation improves. But it's important that

the diet consist of what the individual needs, what is healthy for

that person at that time.

 

If the weight is coming off naturally (without feeling hungry and

tired), and the overall health (via TCM standards) is improving, the

person definitely has found what is correct for him/her at that time.

 

Fan touches on Qi Stagnation as well as Wind invasion. (For readers

new to TCM, the concept of Wind includes not only the effects that

the actual wind has on the body but changes in barometric pressure

and ion concentrations. People who are vulnerable to Wind and

other " Pernicious Evils " (weather conditions) lack sufficient

Protective Qi. This is a special kind of Qi that circulates at the

surface of the body. If the Spleen is weak and Qi overall is

Deficient, eventually a person is going to become Deficient in

Protective Qi as well.)

 

There are other things that need to be ruled in or ruled out by a

M.D. or D.O.: Glandular imbalances, hypogylcemia, etc. There are

other things that have to be ruled in or ruled out from a TCM

standpoint. For example, does the person have an obsessive appetite?

 

Excessive appetite usually is due to Excess Heat or Fire in the

Stomach. Whenever an imbalance is identified, always ask why the

imbalance exists. What's causing or feeding it? Sometimes Excess

Heat or Fire in the Stomach is due to the person consumming too many

foods and/or herbs with Heating energy. The solution is easy. Change

the diet.

 

Sometimes the Root is more complex. These is a condition/ symptom

recognized in TCM called " indeterminate gnawing hunger " . Sometimes

the reasons aren't all that indeterminate. For example, in some cases

it's traced back to Fire in the Liver channel. Two other imbalances

that TCM recognizes are " Liver Invading Stomach " and " Liver Invading

Spleen " . Whenever one or both of these are present, it's important to

ask why the Liver is " invading " . Is it due to problems in the Liver

(like Liver Fire), or is it due to the Stomach and Spleen being weak,

or is it due to a combination of the Liver in Excess and the Spleen

or Stomach being weak? All the existing imbalances will need to be

corrected.

 

Sometimes the Stomach may be weak because of spinal misalignment. A

D.O. or chiropractor is needed.

 

There also may be Food Accumulation problems and/or too rapid

movement of food. You will run across cases where the stomach

empties too quickly, but there is Food Accumulation in the

intestines. (The concept of Food Accumulation covers more than just

constipation. In other cases there will be Food Accumulation in the

Stomach though people suffering Food Accumulation may be unable to

eat and very skinny as a result.)

 

I barely have scratched the surface of understanding obesity in this

post, and I want to learn more.

 

For the beginning TCM students: In your basic texts you learn that

poor appetite is a symptom of Spleen Deficiency. That is what most

commonly manifests from Spleen Qi Deficiency. But, you're going to

run across some cases where the Spleen Deficiency manifests as

excessive appetite. Often (though not always) these will be cases

where the Stomach and Spleen are being invaded because they're weak.

 

If the person's sense of taste is poor or non-existent, this points

to Spleen Deficiency and/or zinc deficiency. This too more often will

manifest as poor appetite, but it also can manifest as excessive

appetite. A person has to be able to fully taste food in order to

feel hungry and to feel sated. Depending upon other factors, it can

manifest either way. Yes, a poor sense of taste can be a factor in

obesity. As the taste improves, the person will experience more

appetite in the case of the former, and becoming " full " sooner in the

case of the latter.

[Guest guest]

Wow! And you call this just scratching the surface?! I

appreciate the info Victoria and Jack. I have, in

fact, been diagnosed with a phlegm condition, damp

heat, spleen and kiney weakness. I look forward to

learning more from you and the other members of the

group.

Jeff

--- victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote:

 

> Chinese Traditional Medicine , Jack Sweeney

> <mojavecowboy wrote:

> >

> > Chinese medicine does indeed have acupuncture

> points

> > for weight loss as well as herbal formulas. Best

> > results might come from using both methods at the

> same

> > time.

>

> Obesity is one of the TCM topics I'm trying to

> research in depth.

> Will appreciate any info you and others have.

>

> One thing I want to point out for list members who

> are new to TCM is

> that Ma Huang (Herba Ephedra) is NOT used for weight

> loss in TCM

> because it's use can aggravate one of the more

> common Roots of

> obesity: Qi Deficiency. Ma Huang has its uses in

> TCM, but weight loss

> isn't one of them.

>

> I also want to point out that TCM recognizes a much

> broader range of

> healthy weights than much of the West does. For

> example, a woman who

> is a size 14, 16, or even an 18 (in the case of tall

> women) is not

> necessarily overweight by TCM standards. In fact,

> her dieting to get

> down to a lower size could result in harm to her

> health and even set

> her up for weight gain. TCM recognizes that there

> are people whose

> optimal and natural weight is lower than that of

> other people, and

> people whose optimal and natural weight is more than

> others'. So

> anyone seeking to use TCM to get down to a size 2 is

> barking up the

> wrong tree unless that is the person's optimal and

> natural weight.

>

> Warner J-W. Fan, M.D., has this to say about obesity

> in A Manual of

> Chinese Herbal Medicine: Principles & Practice for

> Easy Reference:

>

> " Obese: often deficiency of Qi, which also

> circulates poorly, so that

> Dampness often accumulates and causes Phlegm; Wind

> invasion is also

> common. " (p.121.)

>

> Deficiency of Qi is very important. The causes of

> obsity are

> varied. These are some individuals who will lose

> weight just by

> exercising because the underlying cause of their

> obesity is they are

> too sedentary. like Western allopathic

> medicine - recognizes

> the importance of proper (for the individual)

> physical activity in

> good health. Like clothing sizes, what is the proper

> level for an

> individual can vary a lot.

>

> There are cases where putting a person on an

> improper exercise

> program is the worst thing one can do for obesity

> and will even make

> the obesity worse because it aggravates the

> underlying Root. These

> are people with weak Spleens whose Qi Deficiency is

> not mild. Over-

> activity weakens the Spleen and Spleen Qi. Weak

> Spleen Qi cannot

> perform two of its key functions of " transporting "

> and " transforming "

> liquids, and Dampness accumulates as a result. Over

> time, this

> Dampness congels into Phlegm. Dampness and Phlegm

> can take the form

> of excess weight. The person simply does not have

> enough Qi for the

> physical activity, and forcing oneself to exercise

> improperly will

> further weaken the Spleen and the Qi. What is proper

> exercise in

> these cases is limited Qi Gong. Also Qi tonic and

> Spleen-

> strengthening herbs. As the Spleen Qi increases and

> the Spleen

> becomes stronger, the person can do more and more

> physical activity.

>

> I also want to caution readers against limiting

> calories too much in

> the case of a person who is severely Qi Deficient.

> Doing so can

> possibly result in death for the person. The Spleen

> and digestion

> aren't very efficient, and by limiting calories too

> much, the person

> may be deprived of critically needed Qi and

> nutrients. Diets of 2,000

> or more calories a day may in some of these cases be

> what is needed

> until the Spleen and Qi situation improves. But it's

> important that

> the diet consist of what the individual needs, what

> is healthy for

> that person at that time.

>

> If the weight is coming off naturally (without

> feeling hungry and

> tired), and the overall health (via TCM standards)

> is improving, the

> person definitely has found what is correct for

> him/her at that time.

>

> Fan touches on Qi Stagnation as well as Wind

> invasion. (For readers

> new to TCM, the concept of Wind includes not only

> the effects that

> the actual wind has on the body but changes in

> barometric pressure

> and ion concentrations. People who are vulnerable to

> Wind and

> other " Pernicious Evils " (weather conditions) lack

> sufficient

> Protective Qi. This is a special kind of Qi that

> circulates at the

> surface of the body. If the Spleen is weak and Qi

> overall is

> Deficient, eventually a person is going to become

> Deficient in

> Protective Qi as well.)

>

> There are other things that need to be ruled in or

> ruled out by a

> M.D. or D.O.: Glandular imbalances, hypogylcemia,

> etc. There are

> other things that have to be ruled in or ruled out

> from a TCM

> standpoint. For example, does the person have an

> obsessive appetite?

>

> Excessive appetite usually is due to Excess Heat or

> Fire in the

> Stomach. Whenever an imbalance is identified, always

> ask why the

> imbalance exists. What's causing or feeding it?

> Sometimes Excess

> Heat or Fire in the Stomach is due to the person

> consumming too many

> foods and/or herbs with Heating energy. The solution

> is easy. Change

> the diet.

>

> Sometimes the Root is more complex. These is a

> condition/ symptom

> recognized in TCM called " indeterminate gnawing

> hunger " . Sometimes

> the reasons aren't all that indeterminate. For

> example, in some cases

> it's traced back to Fire in the Liver channel. Two

> other imbalances

> that TCM recognizes are " Liver Invading Stomach " and

> " Liver Invading

> Spleen " . Whenever one or both of these are present,

> it's important to

> ask why the Liver is " invading " . Is it due to

> problems in the Liver

> (like Liver Fire), or is it due to the Stomach and

> Spleen being weak,

> or is it due to a combination of the Liver in Excess

> and the Spleen

> or Stomach being weak? All the existing imbalances

> will need to be

> corrected.

>

> Sometimes the Stomach may be weak because of spinal

> misalignment. A

> D.O. or chiropractor is needed.

>

> There also may be Food Accumulation problems and/or

> too rapid

> movement of food. You will run across cases where

> the stomach

> empties too quickly, but there is Food Accumulation

> in the

> intestines. (The concept of Food Accumulation covers

> more than just

> constipation. In other cases there will be Food

> Accumulation in the

> Stomach though people suffering Food Accumulation

> may be unable to

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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