ADD- Acorus Vs Kwei Wei Wan

December 5, 2006

The two most popular TCM med for ADD are Acorus and Kwei Wei Wan ( Gui

Pi wan). Has some one experimented with either of them. There have to be

different symtoms for each one of them to be used. I am trying Acorus

made by Rain Forests. When I take it my forehead becomes warm and I

will not call it headache but my head feesl heavy. I think I should

discontinue it's use. I am not sure if it is helping with my ADD. I

have used it only for a few days, may be after a few days I may feel

better.

Warm forehead and heaviness in head, is it a symptom of yin deficiency?

Would appreciate comments.

Regards.

Tulu

December 7, 2006

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tulu489 " <tulu489 wrote:

>

> The two most popular TCM med for ADD are Acorus and Kwei Wei Wan (

Gui

> Pi wan).

Single herbs are almost never used in TCM. There are a very few

formulas that contain just two herbs, but the overwhelming majority

will have four or more herbs.

Gui Pi Wan is a formula made up of several herbs. The name

translates as Spleen-Restoring Pill or Restore the Spleen Pill. It's

one of the formulas used to treat joint Qi and Blood Deficiency when

the underlying Root is a weak Spleen. The " Wan " part of the name

means " pill " . ( " Tang " means " tea " , and " san " means " powder " .)

Acorus is classified as " An Aromatic Substance that Opens the

Orifices. The herbs in this class " are used to oepn up the sensory

orifices and awaken the spirit. The Heart governs the spirit; when

pathogenic influences envelop and veil the clear sensory orifices,

the spirit is locked up and the patient becomes delirious or even

comatose. " " These substances are also used for treating turbid

phlegm veiling the sensory orifices, which has a similar

presentation and may include seizures. " (Chinese Herbal Medicine

Materia Medica, Revised ed., Dan Bensky and Andrew Gamble, p. 411.)

With this class of herbs, it's very important to differenciate if

it's a " hot closed disorder " or a " cold closed disorder " .

" From a modern biomedical perspective, these substances stimulate

the central nevrous system and lead to revival from coma.

Paradoxically, they also have a tranquilizing effect and can thus be

used in treating irritability and stopping spasms. " (p. 411.)

Because they're aromatic (the active ingredients easily are boiled

away), they're usually taken in pill form ( " wan " ) instead of tea

form ( " tang " ). (p. 411.) " They are almost always combined with other

substances to achieve the optimal effect " for hot closed disorder,

substances that clear heat and relieve toxicity are used; for cold

closed disorders, warm, acrid substances that move the qi are

added. " (p. 411.)

> I am trying Acorus

> made by Rain Forests. When I take it my forehead becomes warm and

I

> will not call it headache but my head feesl heavy.

From the Cautions and Contraindications section for acorus (aka

sweetflag, aka Shi Chang Pu): " Use with caution in cases of yin

deficiency with heat signs, or where there is irritability and

excessive sweating, vomiting blood, or spermatorrhea. According to

some traditional sources, this herb antagonizes Herba Ephedrae (ma

huang). " (p. 415.)

Acorus's taste is acrid (spicy), and it's thermal energy is slightly

warm. It has a slight warming effect on the body; hence, the

warming about Yin Deficiency with Heat signs.

> Warm forehead and heaviness in head, is it a symptom of yin

deficiency?

Warm forehead can be a symptom of Yin Deficiency and/or Liver Yang

Rising (and some other things). Feelings of heaviness point very

strongly to Dampness. One of the functions of Spleen Qi is to

transform and transport liquids in the body. (This is one of those

statements of fact mentioned in a previous post.) If the Spleen is

weak, Dampness will accumulate. (Another statement of fact.) Acorus

by itself does nothing to address this problem, whereas the formula

Gui Pi Tang (or Gui Pi Wan) does. That's its primary use: A Spleen-

strenthening ( " restoring " ) formula. Strengthen the Spleen, and one

automatically augments both Blood and Qi since the Spleen plays the

primary role in the production of both. Plus, there are both Qi

tonic and Blood tonic herbs in the formula.

Low fever can be a symptom of Qi Deficiency. The formula Gui Pi Wan

also contains a caution against using in cases of Yin Deficiency

9 " with tidal fever " ). (Chinese Herbal Medicine Formulas &

Strategies, Dan Bensky and Randall Barolet, p. 255.) (Quite a few of

the herbs in this formula have a warming effect on the body.)

I wonder if the words " Acorus and Kwei Wei Wan ( Gui

Pi wan) " refers not to two different things but to acorus added to

Gui Pi Wan. In other words, they are combined and taken at the same

time. " Acorus and Gui Pi Wan " is not a classical formula, but it

could be a modern formula.

Most important of all, not all cases of ADD have the same Root.

Because of this, what helps one person with ADD may do nothing for a

second and may make a third sicker. It is critical to get the

correct TCM pattern diagnosis.

Bensky and Barolet list the following indications for the use of Gui

Pi Wan/ Tang: " Forgetfulness, palpitations (with or without anxiety,

insomnia), dream-disturbed sleep, anxiety and phobia, feverishness,

withdrawal, reduced appetite, a pallid and wan complexion, a pale

tongue with a thin, white coating, and a thin, frail pulse. Chronic

bleeding syndromes may also be part of the presentation. Women may

experience early periods with copious, pale blood or prolonged,

almost continuous periods with little flow. " (p. 256.) (Another

statement of fact is that Spleen Qi is responsible for holding the

blood in the vessels or where it's supposed to be when it's supposed

to be there. However Heat in the Blood also can cause the Blood to

leave the vessels. In this case, the blood will be bright red.)

Tbere is more than one reason why a person would have trouble

concentrating. The correct TCM pattern analysis is critical. Gui Pi

Wan is only appropriate when there is an underlying pattern of weak

Spleen with Qi and Blood Deficiency. If Yin Deficiency also is

present, herbs will have to be added which take care of that problem

at the same time. Otherwise, what helps the weak Spleen and Qi and

Blood Deficiency will aggravate some of the Yin Deficiency symptoms.

From a Western alternative standpoint, some people have reported

having their ADD and ADHD symptoms worsened by eating potatoes and

in some cases other members of the nightshade family (like tomatoes,

eggplant, etc.). When they eliminate potatoes from their diet, their

ADD and ADHD symptoms disappear or at least lessen considerably.

Gui Pi Tang is superior to Gui Pi Wan in a number of cases when the

tea is taken hot or warm. (TCM warns against consuming cold

beverages or foods as they put extra work on the Stomach.) Some

formulas (depending on what they treat) are most effective when

taken as a warm tea. However, this isn't always possible or

convenient, and the pills will work.

December 7, 2006

BSD Gui Pi Wan (Kwei Be Wan) is a formula that should be used with " caution " .

When I was in acupuncture school over 20 yrs ago, it was prescribed to me by one

of the few Western professors in my school, who did not properly diagnose me. I

became temorarily paralyzed after using this formula. One of my Chinese

professors, who became my mentor, said this formula is one that should be

avoided for my patients in the future.

A Yin/Yang imbalance is quite common in autoimmune (such as hyper/hypothyroid,

Lupus), ADD/HD and Viral infected patients. At times, not always these problems

have similar symptoms but etiology is quite different.

There are many other formulas better suited for ADD/HD, The warming nature of

many of the herbs in this formula Gui Pi Wan, are in my opinion, contraindicated

for true ADD/HD patients.

True ADD/HD patients have classically a red, dotted tongue. The dotted tongue,

can indicate true heat or false heat. Thus making a differential diagnosis

sometimes difficult. The liver pulse is often bounding, full and slightly fast

to fast. But can change throughout the days course. Spleen Dampness/Spleen Qi

Deficiency yes, is quite common, but not always.

Patent medicine formulas can not always be used for these type patients. A

proper balance of herbs can sometimes only be achieved by a prescribed,

individualized formula.

Tikva Cohen, M.S., C.O.A.

Tzfat , Israel

tzfat.healing

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Answers. Try it now.

December 7, 2006

Thanks for the additional info on ADD and TCM.

I too had wondered about all the warming herbs and Qi tonic herbs in

the formula for ADD and ADHD.

Students, there are going to be times when individualized formulas

that you formulate will be needed. They will work better and safer

than the patent formulas. This is especially true of " knotty "

(complex) problems.

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Wendy Cohen <tikvacohen

wrote:

>

> BSD Gui Pi Wan (Kwei Be Wan) is a formula that should be used

with " caution " . When I was in acupuncture school over 20 yrs ago,

it was prescribed to me by one of the few Western professors in my

school, who did not properly diagnose me. I became temorarily

paralyzed after using this formula. One of my Chinese professors,

who became my mentor, said this formula is one that should be

avoided for my patients in the future.

>

> A Yin/Yang imbalance is quite common in autoimmune (such as

hyper/hypothyroid, Lupus), ADD/HD and Viral infected patients. At

times, not always these problems have similar symptoms but etiology

is quite different.

> There are many other formulas better suited for ADD/HD, The

warming nature of many of the herbs in this formula Gui Pi Wan, are

in my opinion, contraindicated for true ADD/HD patients.

>

> True ADD/HD patients have classically a red, dotted tongue. The

dotted tongue, can indicate true heat or false heat. Thus making a

differential diagnosis sometimes difficult. The liver pulse is often

bounding, full and slightly fast to fast. But can change throughout

the days course. Spleen Dampness/Spleen Qi Deficiency yes, is quite

common, but not always.

>

> Patent medicine formulas can not always be used for these type

patients. A proper balance of herbs can sometimes only be achieved

by a prescribed, individualized formula.

>

> Tikva Cohen, M.S., C.O.A.

> Tzfat , Israel

> tzfat.healing

>

> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Answers. Try it

now.

>

December 8, 2006

By Acorus I meant Acorus Tablets (Chang Pu yi Zhi Pian) made by Seven Forests.

Thanks for providing good education on the two formulae and TCM in general.

Regards.

Atul

victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: