[Should China abandon Chinese medicine?]

[Guest guest]

http://www.saukvalley.com/articles/2006/11/14/features/health_and_medical/292809\

835983434.txt#blogcomments

<http://www.saukvalley.com/articles/2006/11/14/features/health_and_medical/29280\

9835983434.txt#blogcomments>

 

Scholar tries to move China forward on medicine

 

Wire Services

 

SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

 

BEIJING - In the space of a few weeks, Zhang Gongyao has gone from a

little-known scholar of medical history to one of China's most notorious

intellectuals.

 

Once accustomed to a low-key life at a provincial university in southern

China, he now feels he must avoid the news media and is nervous even

about walking the streets in case he is recognized.

 

It's all because he dared to question one of his country's most

cherished beliefs: Chinese traditional medicine.

 

Zhang's comments have provoked a storm of protests and a national

debate. He has been cursed on Web sites, denounced as a traitor and

subjected to scornful attacks by the Chinese government.

 

This is a country where traditional medicine has become a patriotic

symbol. It is enshrined in the country's constitution, taught in

universities and protected by government agencies. It has become a

$10-billion industry - representing a quarter of the entire medical

system - with an estimated 300 million customers every year

 

Read entire article at link above:

The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent

the view of saukvalley.com.

 

Jagannath Chatterjee wrote on November 16, 2006 2:13 AM: " I am from

India. While the Chinese are debating shifting from Chinese medicine to

Western medicine, we Indians are seriously contemplating shifting from

Western medicine to our own herbo-mineral mix, ayurveda. Never in

history has India been so besotted with health problems as it is now

under almost eight decades of largely Western medicine. Chemical drugs,

antibiotics, vaccines, chemotherapy, radiation, ART drugs are playing

havoc and there is rarely a person left untouched. Diabetes, cancer,

cardiovascular problems, lung disease, asthma, eczema etc have taken

epidemic proportions. Children are falling prey to autism, ADHD, PDDs,

infantile diabetes, cancers and are the sickest in known memory. I would

caution the Chinese to think twice before abandoning their ancestral

medicine chest. Science is good for machines but bad for man and nature

as the whole world is waking up to today. "

 

 

" I am, and have been for years a confirmed anti-vaccinationist. I have

not the least doubt in my mind that vaccination is a filthy process that

is harmful in the end " - Mahatma Gandhi (Koren Publications Inc.)

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Zhang's comments have provoked a storm of protests and a national

> debate. He has been cursed on Web sites, denounced as a traitor

and

> subjected to scornful attacks by the Chinese government.

>

> This is a country where traditional medicine has become a

patriotic

> symbol. It is enshrined in the country's constitution, taught in

> universities and protected by government agencies. It has become a

> $10-billion industry - representing a quarter of the entire

medical

> system - with an estimated 300 million customers every year

 

The wording is betraying the reporter's biases.

 

I know that all too often in the US reporters don't bother to

research scientific or medical topics but go with whatever industry

or the government hands them. A very good example of this is

the " reporting " on CFIDS/ CFS (Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction

Syndrome). Most insurnace companies have a reneging clause in their

disability policies that state that they only have to pay disability

for 2 years if a condition is psychological. So the insurance

industry mounted a very well-orchestrated campaign to fool the

public and doctors into believing CFIDS is psychological. By doing

this they've made a lot more profits than they would have. Many of

the " treatments " they push for CFIDS not only don't work, some of

them make PWCs (People With CFIDS) sicker.

 

The government doesn't want to pay disability claims either. Plus,

all too often in the US politicians do what lobbyist pay them to do,

not what's best for Americans. Insurance isn't the only industry

that stands to lose profits when it comes to CFIDS. There could be a

number of lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies and chemical

companies. Also, some of these companies would be forced to phase

out some of their big money makers. (Certain anesthesias trigger

CFIDS in susceptible individuals. So can certain chemicals.)

 

The article sounds to me like certain industries aren't satisfied

with just a share of the Chinese market but want it all. Also they

fear a loss of market share in other countries that discover TCM and

how well it works.

 

In order to know what Zhang actually wrote plus the Chinese's

reaction to it, one would have to read Chinese or find a trustable

translator.

[Guest guest]

Victoria:

 

I've read most of Zhang's article this morning and

find his style quite iconoclastic. The article,

entitled " Farewell to , " is twelve

pages long and would take some effort to translate.

 

Zhang attacks the Internal Classic, or the Nei Jing,

as well as the Shang Han Lun, the Ben Cao Gang Mu or

Materia Medica, and says that Chinese medicine started

later than most traditional styles of medicine, such

as those of Egypt, Babylon and Greece. He goes on to

say that there is no solid evidence that Chinese

medicine works, and that the theoretical components of

Chinese medicine lack a scientific basis.

 

Zhang takes the position that he is writing in the

tradition of other iconoclastic writers and medical

scholars such as Lu Xun, as if he is taking their

efforts to the final logical step of eradicating

Chinese medicine. Zhang even criticizes Confucius and

others for exaggerating the medical efficacy of

ginger.

 

IMO Zhang is either part of a historical trend to

rationalize Chinese society in the aftermath of the

Chinese revolution, or less generously, he may be

carrying water for the large pharmaceutical companies

in China that might prefer to take over the shelf

space in China's pharmacies left by traditional

medicinals, if traditional medicine is actually

eliminated, as Zhang advocates.

 

Fewer Chinese believe in traditional medicine as the

years go by, and it becomes more difficult to find

adequately skilled practitioners in China. Perhaps

China may require eighty years of mistaken embrace of

western medicine before they realize the error of

their ways, as the Indian commentator wrote about the

experience of his nation.

 

Kind regards, Jack

 

 

> In order to know what Zhang actually wrote plus the

> Chinese's

> reaction to it, one would have to read Chinese or

> find a trustable

> translator.

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

www.fengshuiphoenix.com/advanced_research.htm

Qi Men Dun Jia Divination

Eight Trigram Chinese Herbs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

This is an interesting aspect of how old tried & true cultural ways meet with

new " improved " & scientific ways in diff cultures & countries. I heard a

report of how younger Chinese people were rejecting the traditional Chinese

ways of exercise such as Tai Chi & other similar forms for exercising at the

gym. It's new & trendy.

 

What a pity the old ways are being tossed in favour of what's popular &

enjoyed by those rich (by the average Chinese person) & young in western

cultures.

 

Some see this as scientific ways vs old folk ways. I don't . I don't believe

true science is in conflict with nature & natural healing methods. Yes, new

technology often is but not true real science as we can see in nature around

us. Just like any new gimmick or idea is leaped upon with great enthusiasm by

some & then spreads to the general population, so are new ideas & methods.

Subsequently, anything that's " old " is tossed out. It's been like that

throughout most of history but far worse nowadays since change happens at

such an accelerated rate.

 

The pendulum always swings back though. But usually not before the extreme

view has caused a lot of damage or problems as we see in our environment &

how it affects all of us. Ethnobotany is now being looked at with a fresh

perspective as man-made medicines & antibiotics are coming up short against

waves of 'new' diseases.

 

Oh well. At least we still can pick & choose what sort of health & medical

care we want within certain limits. Where I live, medicare is low cost of

free, depending on your financial state. Medicines are often free or low cost

for many too. Now if the governments would only cover the proven alternative

care too.

 

Judy

 

On Thursday 16 November 2006 7:01 am, Domingo Pichardo wrote:

> http://www.saukvalley.com/articles/2006/11/14/features/health_and_medical/2

>92809835983434.txt#blogcomments

> <http://www.saukvalley.com/articles/2006/11/14/features/health_and_medical/

>292809835983434.txt#blogcomments>

>

> Scholar tries to move China forward on medicine

>

> Wire Services

>

> SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

>

> BEIJING - In the space of a few weeks, Zhang Gongyao has gone from a

> little-known scholar of medical history to one of China's most notorious

> intellectuals.

>

> Once accustomed to a low-key life at a provincial university in southern

> China, he now feels he must avoid the news media and is nervous even

> about walking the streets in case he is recognized.

>

> It's all because he dared to question one of his country's most

> cherished beliefs: Chinese traditional medicine.

>

> Zhang's comments have provoked a storm of protests and a national

> debate. He has been cursed on Web sites, denounced as a traitor and

> subjected to scornful attacks by the Chinese government.

>

> This is a country where traditional medicine has become a patriotic

> symbol. It is enshrined in the country's constitution, taught in

> universities and protected by government agencies. It has become a

> $10-billion industry - representing a quarter of the entire medical

> system - with an estimated 300 million customers every year

>

> Read entire article at link above:

> The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent

> the view of saukvalley.com.

>

> Jagannath Chatterjee wrote on November 16, 2006 2:13 AM: " I am from

> India. While the Chinese are debating shifting from Chinese medicine to

> Western medicine, we Indians are seriously contemplating shifting from

> Western medicine to our own herbo-mineral mix, ayurveda. Never in

> history has India been so besotted with health problems as it is now

> under almost eight decades of largely Western medicine. Chemical drugs,

> antibiotics, vaccines, chemotherapy, radiation, ART drugs are playing

> havoc and there is rarely a person left untouched. Diabetes, cancer,

> cardiovascular problems, lung disease, asthma, eczema etc have taken

> epidemic proportions. Children are falling prey to autism, ADHD, PDDs,

> infantile diabetes, cancers and are the sickest in known memory. I would

> caution the Chinese to think twice before abandoning their ancestral

> medicine chest. Science is good for machines but bad for man and nature

> as the whole world is waking up to today. "

>

>

> " I am, and have been for years a confirmed anti-vaccinationist. I have

> not the least doubt in my mind that vaccination is a filthy process that

> is harmful in the end " - Mahatma Gandhi (Koren Publications Inc.)

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jack,

Zhang seems somewhat biased and prejudiced in his views, for

example, if chinese medicine started later than egiptian

babilonian or greek medicine(or even ayurvedic), what does that

prove? it is just an effect phrase, provoking but empty, for

instance, he undermines his own argument; for western medicine is

the youngest of all!

As for the 'proof that it works', and the 'scientific basis' of

it, it is being researched, all over the planet, by western

trained doctors themselves(here in Brazil they want exclusive

rights to it, but the non-medical practitioners are fighting

that).

And Confucius praised ginger so highly because he had digestion

problems, and apparently it did wonders for him, don't see any

blame on him for that.

It is VERY reasonable to assume that Zhang is trying to discredit

TCM on behalf of farmaceutical companies, for they get nervous

when the public seeks alternatives to their products.

 

Marcos

 

--- Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy escreveu:

 

> Victoria:

>

> I've read most of Zhang's article this morning and

> find his style quite iconoclastic. The article,

> entitled " Farewell to , " is twelve

> pages long and would take some effort to translate.

>

> Zhang attacks the Internal Classic, or the Nei Jing,

> as well as the Shang Han Lun, the Ben Cao Gang Mu or

> Materia Medica, and says that Chinese medicine started

> later than most traditional styles of medicine, such

> as those of Egypt, Babylon and Greece. He goes on to

> say that there is no solid evidence that Chinese

> medicine works, and that the theoretical components of

> Chinese medicine lack a scientific basis.

>

> Zhang takes the position that he is writing in the

> tradition of other iconoclastic writers and medical

> scholars such as Lu Xun, as if he is taking their

> efforts to the final logical step of eradicating

> Chinese medicine. Zhang even criticizes Confucius and

> others for exaggerating the medical efficacy of

> ginger.

>

> IMO Zhang is either part of a historical trend to

> rationalize Chinese society in the aftermath of the

> Chinese revolution, or less generously, he may be

> carrying water for the large pharmaceutical companies

> in China that might prefer to take over the shelf

> space in China's pharmacies left by traditional

> medicinals, if traditional medicine is actually

> eliminated, as Zhang advocates.

>

> Fewer Chinese believe in traditional medicine as the

> years go by, and it becomes more difficult to find

> adequately skilled practitioners in China. Perhaps

> China may require eighty years of mistaken embrace of

> western medicine before they realize the error of

> their ways, as the Indian commentator wrote about the

> experience of his nation.

>

> Kind regards, Jack

>

>

> > In order to know what Zhang actually wrote plus the

> > Chinese's

> > reaction to it, one would have to read Chinese or

> > find a trustable

> > translator.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> www.fengshuiphoenix.com/advanced_research.htm

> Qi Men Dun Jia Divination

> Eight Trigram Chinese Herbs

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________\

____

> Sponsored Link

>

> Don't quit your job - take classes online

> www.Classesusa.com

>

>

 

 

 

 

_____

Novidade no Mail: receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular.

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[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

Propaganda is Powerful.

 

Hugo

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Marcos:

 

Yes, Zhang seems very biased, and as I read the

article to my wife we both became angry.

 

His style of writing is to make superficial, sweeping

statements unsupported by facts, and then to issue

bold proclamations about getting rid of traditional

medicine.

 

It's one thing to make sweeping statements to an

educated audience that can analyze and interpret for

themselves. In China, there are many young people who

don't know any better and believe that traditional

medicine is something their grandparents believe in,

but for them personally brings childhood memories of

tasting bitter medicine.

 

So many in China now are quite prepared to abandon

their traditions and embrace anything and everything

western, so arguments like Zhang's work best on young

people who lack information to counter such

propaganda, as Hugo wrote.

 

Kind regards, Jack

 

--- marcos <ishk18 wrote:

 

>

> Hi Jack,

> Zhang seems somewhat biased and prejudiced in his

> views, for

> example, if chinese medicine started later than

> egiptian

> babilonian or greek medicine(or even ayurvedic),

> what does that

> prove? it is just an effect phrase, provoking but

> empty, for

> instance, he undermines his own argument; for

> western medicine is

> the youngest of all!

> As for the 'proof that it works', and the

> 'scientific basis' of

> it, it is being researched, all over the planet, by

> western

> trained doctors themselves(here in Brazil they want

> exclusive

> rights to it, but the non-medical practitioners are

> fighting

> that).

> And Confucius praised ginger so highly because he

> had digestion

> problems, and apparently it did wonders for him,

> don't see any

> blame on him for that.

> It is VERY reasonable to assume that Zhang is trying

> to discredit

> TCM on behalf of farmaceutical companies, for they

> get nervous

> when the public seeks alternatives to their

> products.

>

> Marcos

>

> --- Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy escreveu:

>

> > Victoria:

> >

> > I've read most of Zhang's article this morning and

> > find his style quite iconoclastic. The article,

> > entitled " Farewell to , " is twelve

> > pages long and would take some effort to

> translate.

> >

> > Zhang attacks the Internal Classic, or the Nei

> Jing,

> > as well as the Shang Han Lun, the Ben Cao Gang Mu

> or

> > Materia Medica, and says that Chinese medicine

> started

> > later than most traditional styles of medicine,

> such

> > as those of Egypt, Babylon and Greece. He goes on

> to

> > say that there is no solid evidence that Chinese

> > medicine works, and that the theoretical

> components of

> > Chinese medicine lack a scientific basis.

> >

> > Zhang takes the position that he is writing in the

> > tradition of other iconoclastic writers and

> medical

> > scholars such as Lu Xun, as if he is taking their

> > efforts to the final logical step of eradicating

> > Chinese medicine. Zhang even criticizes Confucius

> and

> > others for exaggerating the medical efficacy of

> > ginger.

> >

> > IMO Zhang is either part of a historical trend to

> > rationalize Chinese society in the aftermath of

> the

> > Chinese revolution, or less generously, he may be

> > carrying water for the large pharmaceutical

> companies

> > in China that might prefer to take over the shelf

> > space in China's pharmacies left by traditional

> > medicinals, if traditional medicine is actually

> > eliminated, as Zhang advocates.

> >

> > Fewer Chinese believe in traditional medicine as

> the

> > years go by, and it becomes more difficult to find

> > adequately skilled practitioners in China. Perhaps

> > China may require eighty years of mistaken embrace

> of

> > western medicine before they realize the error of

> > their ways, as the Indian commentator wrote about

> the

> > experience of his nation.

> >

> > Kind regards, Jack

> >

> >

> > > In order to know what Zhang actually wrote plus

> the

> > > Chinese's

> > > reaction to it, one would have to read Chinese

> or

> > > find a trustable

> > > translator.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

> > www.fengshuiphoenix.com/advanced_research.htm

> > Qi Men Dun Jia Divination

> > Eight Trigram Chinese Herbs

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

______________________________\

____

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Don't quit your job - take classes online

> > www.Classesusa.com

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

_____

>

> Novidade no Mail: receba alertas de novas

> mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho

> agora!

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