Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Chinese Traditional Medicine , " baidanwu34 " <bonmotSarah wrote: > > Many Chinese people treat themselves with patent herbs and only turn > to practitioners when they need to do so. Cost of TCM care in the > West is a big motivator for most, especially in the USA where many > herbal/acupuncture practitioners charge close to Western doctor prices TCM culture - including the educational system, practioners, herb and medical suppliers, and patients are at a tremendous disadvantage in the western countries. In China the traditional medical system is one of the oldest institutions in society. Therefore it has a perfectly integrated place in the broader culture. In the west it is a new and untested system that is finding it difficult to establish itself. One of the problems (perhaps the largest) is the educational system. In China a young man or woman interested in TCM has a wide choice with many options for making a career in from education and research professionals - to political professionals - to hospital professionals - clinical professionals - herbal growing, manufacturing, or selling professionals - botanists - physical therapists - public health professionals - etc. In the west the educational system has not fully realized what is needed - research is almost not existant - herbal manufactury is mostly the importation of herbs from China and then rebottling. Many of the Chinese herb product manufacturers have taken an unrealistic markup on their herbs - they see the western interest in herbs as a wind fall and they try to make as much as they think the market will bear - so the pricing of the products is way beyond the traditional pricing system in China. Then when western practioners buy these products and try to have herbs as a second line of income the mark up becomes the same as western health store products. A large percentage of accupuncture and herbal practioners do not have a viable practice that they can make a living at. The attempt to set up an ordinary medical practice is very exspensive and the pricing system in the west for clinical services are simply outside the ability of most people to pay. I constantly hear from people that they really want to try TCM for their medical issues but they have difficulty finding a qualified experienced practioner and that even if they did find one they would not be able to afford them. All of this puts the practioner and the patient in a very difficult position and it puts TCM in the position of trying to keep up in a mainstream system that does not accomidate it. The issues are so complicated that there are no easy answers. Take the issue that one poster mentioned - the difficulty in finding herbs. Also some question the value of patent medicines. Many of the top practioners and distributers think that medicinal formulas should not be available to the public. This is because many people buying and using herbs are not qualified to choose formulas - there is a very dangerous popular concept that herbs are harmless so why not try anything that catches your attention. In TCM the greatest of all medicinal formulas are extremely specific to particular symptom pictures and should NEVER be taken by anyone that does not have that symptom picture. Most of these forumlas can only be bought through practioners - I once spoke to Martin Lau of Mayway and he told me they were commited to quality products to the professional and just as commited to keeping these products out of the hands of the public - most professionals feel that there is great danger to the herbal business if people get into trouble by using products. Look what happened when the American public got hold of Ma Huang and started using it in ways that it was never intended to be used - the government banned the herb - there are many individual herbs and herbal formulas that have the potential to cause great harm - even death - if used improperly. Many of these medicinal formulas can be bought in herb stores in Chinatown - and at some Chinese herb sites in the Internet - but just because they are available does not mean one should buy them - most popular medicinal formulas are clearly understood by the Chinese customers and they know the tradional indications for formulas. Westerners are often choosing formulas based on some notion they read in a book. Medicinal formulas were never meant to be used in such a way. Even the classic tonic formulas can be harmful - because many western health seekers should be careful about taking Yang building herbs without suffeciant Yin to support it. The practice of herbal medicine is a very sophisticated descipline and can not be taken up by reading books - for most people. TCM is in it's infancy in the west let us hope it will be able to hold it's own here - a viable system fot professionals and patients has yet to be developed. I could write a book on this subject - and would still have more to say. > with no insurance available for either the cost of seeing the > practitioner or paying for the cost of the herbs and/or acupuncture, > which are also often priced close to prescription drugs prices (one > practioner in my area often tripled or more patent herbs bought in a > nearby city's oriental section and then took pains to conceal what the > formula was so that patients, who were often hard pressed to make ends > meet, could not buy them on their own at greatly reduced prices). > Many TCM practioners are poorly trained in herbal usage in acupuncture > schools and do not know that much about raw herbs and writing formulas. > > If this situation (as exists in the USA) had existed in China there > never would have been a TCM tradition. Most Chinese have some > knowledge of using herbs as food. It is a part of their general > knowledge and culture. Many early Chinese were peasants with limited > means, which did not extend to paying a TCM doctor for every problem > which arose within the family. Hence the advent of patent herbs in > China for self care. TCM practitioners, if available in peasant > villages at all, were often not well trained (TCM even in the early > days being the rich man's arena) and were often called only if needed > for dire emergencies. Not everyone can afford extended TCM care in > the West nor can all TCM practitioners write a good TCM prescription. > There are a few practitioners who charge according to scale just as > there are a few practitioners who take the time (or have the > knowledge) to put together their own raw herb presciptions, but they > are often few and far between in many Western locations. > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , martyeisen@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 8/5/2006 4:56:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > Chinese Traditional Medicine writes: > > > > > > > In general, it is not wise to use patent formulas. Consult a > Chinese doctor > > and get a diagnosis. Each formula is individualized for the > patient. A > > good herbalist can construct a formula from the ingredients and may > add new > > herbs, omit some of the herbs or change their proportion depending > on the > > diagnosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 I could write a book too, and mostly it would reveal that I have a great impatience for an herbal system which overcharges (including the China Chinese wholesalers of herbs) and then tries to keep the public (in this case the Western patient) in the dark about how to use herbs on a simplified level. In addition this herbal system also sees to it that these herbs are priced out of the common person's ability to pay. In many cases, with a bit of knowledge, TCM herbs, as Ayuvedic herbs, may be used successfully on ones own, especially at the first sign of colds and flus (even for simple stomach upset). There are many good patent herbal books to help the beginner figure out very basic care, such as Chinese Herbal Patent Medicines by Will Maclean (Australian). With the level of instruction such as it is in many TCM schools in the US sometimes I wonder about how much better the practitioner's knowledge and prescribing is over the patient's view of symptoms and attempt at some basic self care (just as there are OTC drugs which can be dangerous if misused, but carefully injested are used successfully by many, if one cares for drugs that is, which I do not). There are also books which give simple recipes for the seasonal addition of TCM and/or Ayurvedic herbs to regular foods to help prevent sickness and yet the Western patient is mostly kept ignorant of this unless s/he does research into this on her/his own. In this I think that TCM practitioners are often like doctors, often failing to point out that the individual can help to prevent many health problems just by becoming conscious of foods which s/he consumes seasonally and perhaps bulstering immunity by using herbs to strenghten the system. The lung season will soon be upon us and perhaps adding some herbs to soups now will help strengthen the resistance of the lung during lung season. Here's an interesting site which was posted on another forum recently--many video clips of Asians discussing foods, health, and herbs: http://www.asianremedies.co.uk/default.asp?p=h Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Vinod Kumar " <vinod3x3 wrote: > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " baidanwu34 " <bonmotSarah@> > wrote: > > > > Many Chinese people treat themselves with patent herbs and only turn > > to practitioners when they need to do so. Cost of TCM care in the > > West is a big motivator for most, especially in the USA where many > > herbal/acupuncture practitioners charge close to Western doctor prices > > TCM culture - including the educational system, practioners, herb and > medical suppliers, and patients are at a tremendous disadvantage in > the western countries. In China the traditional medical system is one > of the oldest institutions in society. Therefore it has a perfectly > integrated place in the broader culture. In the west it is a new and > untested system that is finding it difficult to establish itself. One > of the problems (perhaps the largest) is the educational system. In > China a young man or woman interested in TCM has a wide choice with > many options for making a career in from education and research > professionals - to political professionals - to hospital professionals > - clinical professionals - herbal growing, manufacturing, or selling > professionals - botanists - physical therapists - public health > professionals - etc. In the west the educational system has not fully > realized what is needed - research is almost not existant - herbal > manufactury is mostly the importation of herbs from China and then > rebottling. > > Many of the Chinese herb product manufacturers have taken an > unrealistic markup on their herbs - they see the western interest in > herbs as a wind fall and they try to make as much as they think the > market will bear - so the pricing of the products is way beyond the > traditional pricing system in China. Then when western practioners buy > these products and try to have herbs as a second line of income the > mark up becomes the same as western health store products. A large > percentage of accupuncture and herbal practioners do not have a viable > practice that they can make a living at. The attempt to set up an > ordinary medical practice is very exspensive and the pricing system in > the west for clinical services are simply outside the ability of most > people to pay. I constantly hear from people that they really want to > try TCM for their medical issues but they have difficulty finding a > qualified experienced practioner and that even if they did find one > they would not be able to afford them. All of this puts the practioner > and the patient in a very difficult position and it puts TCM in the > position of trying to keep up in a mainstream system that does not > accomidate it. > > The issues are so complicated that there are no easy answers. Take the > issue that one poster mentioned - the difficulty in finding herbs. > Also some question the value of patent medicines. Many of the top > practioners and distributers think that medicinal formulas should not > be available to the public. This is because many people buying and > using herbs are not qualified to choose formulas - there is a very > dangerous popular concept that herbs are harmless so why not try > anything that catches your attention. In TCM the greatest of all > medicinal formulas are extremely specific to particular symptom > pictures and should NEVER be taken by anyone that does not have that > symptom picture. Most of these forumlas can only be bought through > practioners - I once spoke to Martin Lau of Mayway and he told me they > were commited to quality products to the professional and just as > commited to keeping these products out of the hands of the public - > most professionals feel that there is great danger to the herbal > business if people get into trouble by using products. Look what > happened when the American public got hold of Ma Huang and started > using it in ways that it was never intended to be used - the > government banned the herb - there are many individual herbs and > herbal formulas that have the potential to cause great harm - even > death - if used improperly. > > Many of these medicinal formulas can be bought in herb stores in > Chinatown - and at some Chinese herb sites in the Internet - but just > because they are available does not mean one should buy them - most > popular medicinal formulas are clearly understood by the Chinese > customers and they know the tradional indications for formulas. > Westerners are often choosing formulas based on some notion they read > in a book. Medicinal formulas were never meant to be used in such a > way. Even the classic tonic formulas can be harmful - because many > western health seekers should be careful about taking Yang building > herbs without suffeciant Yin to support it. The practice of herbal > medicine is a very sophisticated descipline and can not be taken up by > reading books - for most people. > > TCM is in it's infancy in the west let us hope it will be able to hold > it's own here - a viable system fot professionals and patients has yet > to be developed. > > I could write a book on this subject - and would still have more to say. > > > > > > > with no insurance available for either the cost of seeing the > > practitioner or paying for the cost of the herbs and/or acupuncture, > > which are also often priced close to prescription drugs prices (one > > practioner in my area often tripled or more patent herbs bought in a > > nearby city's oriental section and then took pains to conceal what the > > formula was so that patients, who were often hard pressed to make ends > > meet, could not buy them on their own at greatly reduced prices). > > Many TCM practioners are poorly trained in herbal usage in acupuncture > > schools and do not know that much about raw herbs and writing > formulas. > > > > If this situation (as exists in the USA) had existed in China there > > never would have been a TCM tradition. Most Chinese have some > > knowledge of using herbs as food. It is a part of their general > > knowledge and culture. Many early Chinese were peasants with limited > > means, which did not extend to paying a TCM doctor for every problem > > which arose within the family. Hence the advent of patent herbs in > > China for self care. TCM practitioners, if available in peasant > > villages at all, were often not well trained (TCM even in the early > > days being the rich man's arena) and were often called only if needed > > for dire emergencies. Not everyone can afford extended TCM care in > > the West nor can all TCM practitioners write a good TCM prescription. > > There are a few practitioners who charge according to scale just as > > there are a few practitioners who take the time (or have the > > knowledge) to put together their own raw herb presciptions, but they > > are often few and far between in many Western locations. > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , martyeisen@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 8/5/2006 4:56:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine writes: > > > > > > > > > > > In general, it is not wise to use patent formulas. Consult a > > Chinese doctor > > > and get a diagnosis. Each formula is individualized for the > > patient. A > > > good herbalist can construct a formula from the ingredients and may > > add new > > > herbs, omit some of the herbs or change their proportion depending > > on the > > > diagnosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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