Exact Formula for Gu Zhi SHU Song? Sorry, got the s...

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , KarateStan wrote:

> The formula amounts are standard. You must have slept in herbal

class.

> The standard is the " Materia Medica " by Dan Bensky, any

information would be

> based on that book.

 

Not every poster on here has a copy of Bensky's Materia Medica. And,

there are some variations in dosages among different authorities.

 

AND, most important, the Bensky book that deals with formulas is not

Materia Medica but Formulas & Strategies. There also are variations

in the amount of an herb used in different formulas. In some

formulas, the maximun allowable dose may be used, in other formulas

only a fraction of the max. allowable amount. It depends on what

the formula is supposed to do.

 

Finally, not every classical formula is found in Bensky's Formulas &

Strategies.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/28/2006 2:31:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

victoria_dragon writes:

 

I Googled and found the pills for sale from several

companies, but none of them listed the dosages of the individual herbs.

 

 

 

Use the known amount for each of the herbs you found, just what I had stated

before, if you do not know the standard dosage of each herb, then maybe you

should not be making a formula.

From Materia Medica page 18, " The common dosage for most of the available

substances is 3-10 grams or 1-3 qian. "

 

I had some herbal teachers that said 9-12 grams and another that said 5-10

grams. This taught me one thing the doctor is the one that says how much to

use, not some book.

 

So whatever you wish in the range stated above. Look at you patient this is

where you will get the information.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , KarateStan wrote:

>

> Use the known amount for each of the herbs you found, just what I

had stated

> before, if you do not know the standard dosage of each herb, then

maybe you

> should not be making a formula.

> From Materia Medica page 18, " The common dosage for most of the

available

> substances is 3-10 grams or 1-3 qian. "

 

As I said before, the amount of a specific herb to use sometimes

varies according to what the formula is for. The ratio of a

specific herb to other herbs in the formula can vary according to

what the formula is for. The ranges that Maciocia and Bensky give

are for considerations of the client's age, size, severity of health

problems, etc. The ratios would remain more or less the same.

 

One thing I stress on here is safety. I don't want anyone reading 3

to 10 grams and ignoring the operative word in the sentence which

is " common " . There are some herbs that one most definitely does not

want to use as much as 3 grams of in a formula. Not even for a

relatively strong adult. Please, always check the recomended dosages

to be on the safe side.

 

Sometimes the ratio of herbs in a formula will need to be changed

depending on the person's individual needs. BUT it's important to

know what the standard dosages ratios of the herbs are before the

healer can modify the ratios for an individual.

 

Now, do you have a book with the standard formula in it or do you

know a site on the Internet that gives the standard dosages of the

herbs in this formula?

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your support of my question. I, too, would like to knw

if there is a book with this standard herbal formula in it or else an

internet site that I have been unable to find which has the exact

ratios of this formula. So far all I have found is one site which has

the herbal formula (along with other TCM formulas) with no exact

amounts of herbs listed and also several sites selling the patent

herbal formula which indeed also does not share the ratios of the

herbs. I am beginning to think that perhaps knowledge the Chinese

language and access to many Chinese websites may be the only way to

obtain this information. I thought about purchasing the Bensky

formula book, but am reluctant to spend so much right now only to find

that it too comes up empty on this particular question. Hence my

query. If anyone can help I would be very appreciative.

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " victoria_dragon "

<victoria_dragon wrote:

>

> Chinese Traditional Medicine , KarateStan@ wrote:

> >

> > Use the known amount for each of the herbs you found, just what I

> had stated

> > before, if you do not know the standard dosage of each herb, then

> maybe you

> > should not be making a formula.

> > From Materia Medica page 18, " The common dosage for most of the

> available

> > substances is 3-10 grams or 1-3 qian. "

>

> As I said before, the amount of a specific herb to use sometimes

> varies according to what the formula is for. The ratio of a

> specific herb to other herbs in the formula can vary according to

> what the formula is for. The ranges that Maciocia and Bensky give

> are for considerations of the client's age, size, severity of health

> problems, etc. The ratios would remain more or less the same.

>

> One thing I stress on here is safety. I don't want anyone reading 3

> to 10 grams and ignoring the operative word in the sentence which

> is " common " . There are some herbs that one most definitely does not

> want to use as much as 3 grams of in a formula. Not even for a

> relatively strong adult. Please, always check the recomended dosages

> to be on the safe side.

>

> Sometimes the ratio of herbs in a formula will need to be changed

> depending on the person's individual needs. BUT it's important to

> know what the standard dosages ratios of the herbs are before the

> healer can modify the ratios for an individual.

>

> Now, do you have a book with the standard formula in it or do you

> know a site on the Internet that gives the standard dosages of the

> herbs in this formula?

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , KarateStan wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 7/28/2006 2:31:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> victoria_dragon writes:

>

> I Googled and found the pills for sale from several companies,

> but none of them listed the dosages of the individual herbs.

 

I can't figure out if victoria or Stan wrote the sentence above, but

Crane Herb Co does list percentages of the individual herbs for the

several brands they carry. Enter the name of the formula at the search

page here - http://www.craneherb.com/products.esp

 

The site does seem to be down at the moment, so try again later.

 

sue

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " qiuser " <qiuser wrote:

 

> Crane Herb Co does list percentages of the individual herbs for the

> several brands they carry. Enter the name of the formula at the search

> page here - http://www.craneherb.com/products.esp

>

> The site does seem to be down at the moment, so try again later.

 

It's not down, just completely redone. The new link for product search

is http://www.craneherb.com/web/shared/products/products.esp.aspx?ua=3

 

sue

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

 

I got on this site by using the www.craneherbs.com starting point

(before I saw your recent repost). Then I used the search engine and

no matter what part of the formula name I entered (whole or each of

the four pinyin names separately) I did not come up with this formula.

Do you know of another name for it? Thanks for your help.

 

Sarah

 

In a message dated 7/30/06 12:14:53 PM, Chinese Traditional Medicine

writes:

 

 

Re: Exact Formula for Gu Zhi SHU Song? Sorry, got the s...

Posted by: " qiuser " qiuser qiuser

Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:10 am (PDT)

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , KarateStan wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 7/28/2006 2:31:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> victoria_dragon writes:

>

> I Googled and found the pills for sale from several companies,

> but none of them listed the dosages of the individual herbs.

 

I can't figure out if victoria or Stan wrote the sentence above, but

Crane Herb Co does list percentages of the individual herbs for the

several brands they carry. Enter the name of the formula at the search

page here - http://www.craneherb.com/products.esp

 

The site does seem to be down at the moment, so try again later.

 

sue

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " qiuser " <qiuser wrote:

>

> Chinese Traditional Medicine , " qiuser " <qiuser@> wrote:

>

> > Crane Herb Co does list percentages of the individual herbs for the

> > several brands they carry. Enter the name of the formula at the search

> > page here - http://www.craneherb.com/products.esp

> >

> > The site does seem to be down at the moment, so try again later.

>

> It's not down, just completely redone. The new link for product search

> is http://www.craneherb.com/web/shared/products/products.esp.aspx?ua=3

>

> sue

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I've looked up this name in three different Chinese

reference books and found nothing by that name.

 

Kind regards, Jack

 

--- baidanwu34 <bonmotSarah wrote:

 

> Hi Sue,

>

> I got on this site by using the www.craneherbs.com

> starting point

> (before I saw your recent repost). Then I used the

> search engine and

> no matter what part of the formula name I entered

> (whole or each of

> the four pinyin names separately) I did not come up

> with this formula.

> Do you know of another name for it? Thanks for

> your help.

>

> Sarah

>

> In a message dated 7/30/06 12:14:53 PM,

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> writes:

>

>

> Re: Exact Formula for Gu Zhi SHU Song? Sorry, got

> the s...

> Posted by: " qiuser " qiuser qiuser

> Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:10 am (PDT)

>

> Chinese Traditional Medicine ,

> KarateStan wrote:

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 7/28/2006 2:31:30 P.M. Eastern

> Standard Time,

> > victoria_dragon writes:

> >

> > I Googled and found the pills for sale from

> several companies,

> > but none of them listed the dosages of the

> individual herbs.

>

> I can't figure out if victoria or Stan wrote the

> sentence above, but

> Crane Herb Co does list percentages of the

> individual herbs for the

> several brands they carry. Enter the name of the

> formula at the search

> page here - http://www.craneherb.com/products.esp

>

> The site does seem to be down at the moment, so try

> again later.

>

> sue

>

>

>

>

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " qiuser "

> <qiuser wrote:

> >

> > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " qiuser "

> <qiuser@> wrote:

> >

> > > Crane Herb Co does list percentages of the

> individual herbs for the

> > > several brands they carry. Enter the name of the

> formula at the search

> > > page here -

> http://www.craneherb.com/products.esp

> > >

> > > The site does seem to be down at the moment, so

> try again later.

> >

> > It's not down, just completely redone. The new

> link for product search

> > is

>

http://www.craneherb.com/web/shared/products/products.esp.aspx?ua=3

> >

> > sue

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jack, I appreciate everyone's help, even when it leads to a

blank. It is so nice of you and everyone to help. I may just have to

take a plunge and guess in the end. Maybe if I can figure out the

basis for the formula it would be a start.

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy

wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> I've looked up this name in three different Chinese

> reference books and found nothing by that name.

>

> Kind regards, Jack

>

> --- baidanwu34 <bonmotSarah wrote:

>

> > Hi Sue,

> >

> > I got on this site by using the www.craneherbs.com

> > starting point

> > (before I saw your recent repost). Then I used the

> > search engine and

> > no matter what part of the formula name I entered

> > (whole or each of

> > the four pinyin names separately) I did not come up

> > with this formula.

> > Do you know of another name for it? Thanks for

> > your help.

> >

> > Sarah

> >

> > In a message dated 7/30/06 12:14:53 PM,

> > Chinese Traditional Medicine

> > writes:

> >

> >

> > Re: Exact Formula for Gu Zhi SHU Song? Sorry, got

> > the s...

> > Posted by: " qiuser " qiuser qiuser

> > Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:10 am (PDT)

> >

> > Chinese Traditional Medicine ,

> > KarateStan@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > In a message dated 7/28/2006 2:31:30 P.M. Eastern

> > Standard Time,

> > > victoria_dragon@ writes:

> > >

> > > I Googled and found the pills for sale from

> > several companies,

> > > but none of them listed the dosages of the

> > individual herbs.

> >

> > I can't figure out if victoria or Stan wrote the

> > sentence above, but

> > Crane Herb Co does list percentages of the

> > individual herbs for the

> > several brands they carry. Enter the name of the

> > formula at the search

> > page here - http://www.craneherb.com/products.esp

> >

> > The site does seem to be down at the moment, so try

> > again later.

> >

> > sue

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " qiuser "

> > <qiuser@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " qiuser "

> > <qiuser@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Crane Herb Co does list percentages of the

> > individual herbs for the

> > > > several brands they carry. Enter the name of the

> > formula at the search

> > > > page here -

> > http://www.craneherb.com/products.esp

> > > >

> > > > The site does seem to be down at the moment, so

> > try again later.

> > >

> > > It's not down, just completely redone. The new

> > link for product search

> > > is

> >

> http://www.craneherb.com/web/shared/products/products.esp.aspx?ua=3

> > >

> > > sue

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine

<Chinese Traditional Medicine > , " baidanwu34 " <bonmotSarah

wrote:

>

> Thank you Jack, I appreciate everyone's help, even when it leads to a

> blank. It is so nice of you and everyone to help. I may just have to

> take a plunge and guess in the end. Maybe if I can figure out the

> basis for the formula it would be a start.

 

 

There is a group for practitioners and students for just such a purpose

as this. I would go in and ask but I am not a member. To get in you

either have to be going to a Chinese Medical School, or be a licensed

practitioner. Maybe there is someone on this board that is a member of

that group and could ask for you on that board and then post the info

over here. Also I know there are several students on this board, and

maybe they would be willing to join the group so they could ask for

you. It's just a thought. =) Good luck!

 

the link to the group is

 

http://health.Chinese Traditional Medicine/

<http://health.Chinese Traditional Medicine/>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

" baidanwu34 " bonmotSarah baidanwu34 wrote:

 

> Hi Sue,

>

> I got on this site by using the www.craneherbs.com starting point

> (before I saw your recent repost). Then I used the search engine

> and

> no matter what part of the formula name I entered (whole or each of

> the four pinyin names separately) I did not come up with this

> formula.

> Do you know of another name for it? Thanks for your help.

>

> Sarah

 

I plugged it in too with no results, and others aren't finding it

either. I thought I remembererd a post which said this is a

condition, not a formula, but the archives are down at the moment and

I can't search them.

 

sue

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I think it means something like woman strong bones--there is a chinese

book title which is translated on the internet like that. Some say it

means osteoporosis, but perhaps it means that you need to build the

bones in this condition. Yes, this formula is puzzling, yet I know

that it must be somewhere on the internet, because there is a Chinese

practioner in my area who makes capsules using these herbs, but does

not want to share. Sigh.

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , suzee <qiuser wrote:

>

> " baidanwu34 " bonmotSarah baidanwu34 wrote:

>

> > Hi Sue,

> >

> > I got on this site by using the www.craneherbs.com starting point

> > (before I saw your recent repost). Then I used the search engine

> > and

> > no matter what part of the formula name I entered (whole or each of

> > the four pinyin names separately) I did not come up with this

> > formula.

> > Do you know of another name for it? Thanks for your help.

> >

> > Sarah

>

> I plugged it in too with no results, and others aren't finding it

> either. I thought I remembererd a post which said this is a

> condition, not a formula, but the archives are down at the moment and

> I can't search them.

>

> sue

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " baidanwu34 " <bonmotSarah

wrote:

>

> I think it means something like woman strong bones--there is a chinese

> book title which is translated on the internet like that. Some say it

> means osteoporosis, but perhaps it means that you need to build the

> bones in this condition. Yes, this formula is puzzling, yet I know

> that it must be somewhere on the internet, because there is a Chinese

> practioner in my area who makes capsules using these herbs, but does

> not want to share. Sigh.

 

 

This looks like some good research on the topic, with this info I found

some links that might be of some use. It looks like if you are in the

US, the book would run you total around $6 bucks for the english edition

including shipping. Well worth the investment if it contains what you

are looking for, and even if it doesn't contain the formula, it might

contain something of use.

 

Here are two links of places that I found that sell them (seems like

several have found these, but I just thought I would post them).

 

http://maxnature.stores..net/guzhisusongwan.html

<http://maxnature.stores..net/guzhisusongwan.html>

 

http://www.activeherb.com/guzhi/ <http://www.activeherb.com/guzhi/>

 

I first found the chinese version of the book on amazon.com and this is

the link

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/9574696103/102-6943990-0489744?v=glance\

& n=283155

<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/9574696103/102-6943990-0489744?v=glanc\

e & n=283155>

 

It is by Miriam E. Nelson and I looked up her name on half.com under the

english name of the book. Strong women strong bones and I got this link

 

http://product.half.ebay.com/Strong-Women-Strong-Bones_W0QQtgZinfoQQprZ1\

799497

<http://product.half.ebay.com/Strong-Women-Strong-Bones_W0QQtgZinfoQQprZ\

1799497>

 

This next one is a link for books written by Miriam on amazon

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/102-6943990-0489744?ie=UTF8 & index=books & rank=-re\

levance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank & field-author-exact=Miriam%20E.%20N\

elson

<http://www.amazon.com/s/102-6943990-0489744?ie=UTF8 & index=books & rank=-r\

elevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank & field-author-exact=Miriam%20E.%20\

Nelson>

 

Anyways I hope that gets you closer to what you are looking for =)