Is Spleen Qi Deficiency an excess problem?

[Guest guest]

My TCM doctor said I have Spleen Qi Deficiency and generally, I have

excess problem? I thought deficiency is a lack and not an excess

problem.

What are the fruits/foods I should avoid then and what should I take

to strengthen Qi? Would strengthening my Qi also help with my hyper-

active immune? I read from a site that citrus like tomatoes, orange

and lemons weakens the spleen but I let my hubby take alot because I

thought lemon helps with fatty liver.

 

marilyn

[Guest guest]

Dampness is an Excess. One of the main functions of Spleen Qi is to

transform and transport water. If the Spleen is too weak to do this,

Dampness accumulates. The Spleen Defiiency triggers the Excess of

Dampness.

 

Two of the most Dampness-engendering foods are dairy and wheat.

 

A Deficient Spleen can give rise to Dampness, and Dampness weakens the

Spleen. It can be a snowballing situation.

 

The Spleen also is vulnerable to Cold, but not as much as to Dampness.

 

Overwork will weaken the Spleen. So will eating on the run, eating

when upset, eating at irregular times, and eating too much or too

little.

 

Obsessing damages the Spleen, and a person with a weakened Spleen may

be more prone to obsessing and brooding than when the Spleen is

healthy.

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " emailme_marilyn "

<emailme_marilyn wrote:

>

> My TCM doctor said I have Spleen Qi Deficiency and generally, I have

> excess problem? I thought deficiency is a lack and not an excess

> problem.

> What are the fruits/foods I should avoid then and what should I take

> to strengthen Qi? Would strengthening my Qi also help with my hyper-

> active immune? I read from a site that citrus like tomatoes, orange

> and lemons weakens the spleen but I let my hubby take alot because I

> thought lemon helps with fatty liver.

>

> marilyn

>

[Guest guest]

What are some things that can be done to rectify this? I live in the

Pacific Northwest, a very damp place. I have had my spleen removed and have

a tendency towards damp. I know about aduki beans. I don't do dairy and

very little wheat. Are there foods that can help?

Thank you,

Michelle

-

" victoria_dragon " <victoria_dragon

<Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Friday, May 05, 2006 7:37 PM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Is Spleen Qi Deficiency an excess problem?

 

 

Dampness is an Excess. One of the main functions of Spleen Qi is to

transform and transport water. If the Spleen is too weak to do this,

Dampness accumulates. The Spleen Defiiency triggers the Excess of

Dampness.

 

Two of the most Dampness-engendering foods are dairy and wheat.

 

A Deficient Spleen can give rise to Dampness, and Dampness weakens the

Spleen. It can be a snowballing situation.

 

The Spleen also is vulnerable to Cold, but not as much as to Dampness.

 

Overwork will weaken the Spleen. So will eating on the run, eating

when upset, eating at irregular times, and eating too much or too

little.

 

Obsessing damages the Spleen, and a person with a weakened Spleen may

be more prone to obsessing and brooding than when the Spleen is

healthy.

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " emailme_marilyn "

<emailme_marilyn wrote:

>

> My TCM doctor said I have Spleen Qi Deficiency and generally, I have

> excess problem? I thought deficiency is a lack and not an excess

> problem.

> What are the fruits/foods I should avoid then and what should I take

> to strengthen Qi? Would strengthening my Qi also help with my hyper-

> active immune? I read from a site that citrus like tomatoes, orange

> and lemons weakens the spleen but I let my hubby take alot because I

> thought lemon helps with fatty liver.

>

> marilyn

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

This is an important point to understand - since these patterns are

among the most common encountered. Many defeciency syndromes are

caused by excesses of various types (the functions become exhausted or

overwhelmed by the excesses) - just as defeciency can cause

accumulation of excesses (hypometabolism allows build up of substance

(Yin) which is not being properly metabolised in the hypo condition -

like stasis. This is easy to understand. Like cancer is a disease of

stasis caused by excess. In modern society a large percentage of

people have breakdown of their systems caused by a host of excesses.

Like CFS is a disease of exhaustion caused by excessive processes that

have left the individual severly depleted. This is the most common

syndrome in the Spleen - damp accumulations (excess) have rendered the

Spleen less functional (Spleen dampness with defeciency - and or

heat). If one takes say cocaine then the excess false Qi exhausts the

righteous Qi and one is left defecient. Try to understand this point

as it will clearly explain some basic facts of human physiology.

[Guest guest]

" Michelle Clark " michellec wrtoe:

 

 

> What are some things that can be done to rectify this? I live in

> the

> Pacific Northwest, a very damp place. I have had my spleen removed

> and have

> a tendency towards damp. I know about aduki beans. I don't do

> dairy and

> very little wheat. Are there foods that can help?

 

Paul Pitchford's book, Healing with Whole Foods, has some very good

suggestions. He discusses the 5 elements, deficiencies and excesses

and includes recipes with herbs and whole grains.

 

sue

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Thank you,

I believe I have that book. I recall garlic, ginger, radish (turnip?),

aduki beans. Sot that book is pretty much all lencompassing? " Michelle

Clark " michellec wrtoe:

>

>

>> What are some things that can be done to rectify this? I live in the

>> Pacific Northwest, a very damp place. I have had my spleen removed

>> and have

>> a tendency towards damp. I know about aduki beans. I don't do

>> dairy and

>> very little wheat. Are there foods that can help?

>

> Paul Pitchford's book, Healing with Whole Foods, has some very good

> suggestions. He discusses the 5 elements, deficiencies and excesses and

> includes recipes with herbs and whole grains.

>

> sue

>

>

>

>

>

 

> Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine

>

[Guest guest]

Victoria,

 

Can Dampness also occur because of others causes and then damage the

Spleen? Or does the Spleen weakness always come first?

 

victoria_dragon wrote:

 

> A Deficient Spleen can give rise to Dampness, and Dampness weakens the

> Spleen. It can be a snowballing situation.

 

 

Nancy S+13

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Nancy S+13 <nancy wrote:

 

> Can Dampness also occur because of others causes and then damage the

> Spleen? Or does the Spleen weakness always come first?

 

It can happen either way. The Dampness can be the Dampness invading

from living in a damp environment, not changing out of damp clothes,

consuming too many Damp-engendering foods, sitting on a damp surface,

etc. Most people with strong Spleens can survice this for a while

without problems, but if the Protective Qi temporarily is weak (from

something like missing sleep because of a school or work deadline or

eating too many sweets at a party) or the person engages in these

things too long and too often, the Spleen becomes weakened by the

Dampness. Then the Spleen Qi is insufficient to transport and

transform water correctly, and more Dampness accumulates, weakening

the Spleen further.

 

Or the diet and environment can be fine in terms of Dampness but other

things weakens the Spleen. Like overwork, not getting enough rest,

eating on the run, obsessing, eating when upset, etc. Once this

occurs, not only is Dampness accumulating because there's no longer

enough Qi to transform and transport water correctly, there's also not

enough Protective Qi to guard against any Dampness invading from the

environment. The Spleen is most vulnerable to Dampness but it's also

very vulnerable to Cold. This can be Excess Cold which invades the

body or is caused by eating too many foods and herbs which are

cooling, or it can be Deficiency Cold caused by there not being enough

Yang to warm the body properly.

 

Women can be especially vulnerable to Dampness in the environment when

they're having their periods and for a while after childbirth.

 

Also, if the Spleen is weak, what is not too much Dampness in the

environment to a person with a strong Spleen will be too much for the

person with a weak Spleen.

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Michelle Clark "

<michellec wrote:

>

> I live in the

> Pacific Northwest, a very damp place. I have had my spleen

removed and have

> a tendency towards damp.

 

This is something I don't understand very well (even though I have

experienced it) and am hoping that some of the TCM clinicians on the

list will add to. Even though anatomical organs are not equivalent

to TCM Organs, the removal of an organ can and often will affect not

just the corresponding TCM Organ but the meridian as well. In my

case I had my gall bladder removed because of stones. The TCM

herbalist could not get a pulse on me in the Gall Bladder position

during the initial consultation. He asked if I had had gall bladder

surgery.

 

If your home is too damp, you may want to consider a dehumidifier.

But be careful that it doesn't dry out your home too much as the

Lungs and lungs don't like Dryness, and when air is too dry in

living quarters, a person is more vulnerable to respiratory

infections.

 

A vacation in a drier locale may help. If you feel noticeably better

in a drier locale than in the NW, you may want to consider a move.

If this is impossible, vacationing once in a while may help.

 

This is fine-tuning it some more, but sometimes there can be a co-

factor operating with the Dampness. For example, Damp Heat bothers

me a lot. Dry Cold bothers me a lot. I usually run a humidifier

during the winter because I feel better with more humidity added to

the air. (Probably because I still have some problems with Cold, and

moist air holds more heat than dry air does. The temperature can be

say 70 degrees F, but the dry air will feel colder to me because

moist air holds more heat than dry air does.)

 

The US NW is cool and damp. Do you notice an improvement when the

weather is warmer but damp? Warmer and drier? Cold but drier? If

there is a co-factor, it may be easier to change the co-factor than

the dampness situation.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

Since we're on the spleen topic.....

 

Can having Epstein Barr Syndrome (mononucleosis) lead to future

problems with the spleen? I had this when I was younger, with an

enlarged spleen being one of the symptoms/results. Now, I go to a

Chinese Doctor and am being treated for Spleen deficiency and stagnant

blood. Just wondering if there could have been a connection. (However,

i too live in the Pacific Northwest (Vancouver Island) and have noticed

that since moving here, my symptoms seem to be more pronounced.)

 

Thanks,

 

Brenda

 

On 7-May-06, at 10:44 AM, victoria_dragon wrote:

 

> Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Michelle Clark "

> <michellec wrote:

> >

> > I live in the

> > Pacific Northwest, a very damp place.  I have had my spleen

> removed and have

> > a tendency towards damp.

>

> This is something I don't understand very well (even though I have

> experienced it) and am hoping that some of the TCM clinicians on the

> list will add to.  Even though anatomical organs are not equivalent

> to TCM Organs, the removal of an organ can and often will affect not

> just the corresponding TCM Organ but the meridian as well.  In my

> case I had my gall bladder removed because of stones.  The TCM

> herbalist could not get a pulse on me in the Gall Bladder position

> during the initial consultation. He asked if I had had gall bladder

> surgery.

>

> If your home is too damp, you may want to consider a dehumidifier. 

> But be careful that it doesn't dry out your home too much as the

> Lungs and lungs don't like Dryness, and when air is too dry in

> living quarters, a person is more vulnerable to respiratory

> infections.

>

> A vacation in a drier locale may help. If you feel noticeably better

> in a drier locale than in the NW, you may want to consider a move. 

> If this is impossible, vacationing once in a while may help.

>

> This is fine-tuning it some more, but sometimes there can be a co-

> factor operating with the Dampness.  For example, Damp Heat bothers

> me a lot. Dry Cold bothers me a lot.  I usually run a humidifier

> during the winter because I feel better with more humidity added to

> the air. (Probably because I still have some problems with Cold, and

> moist air holds more heat than dry air does. The temperature can be

> say 70 degrees F, but the dry air will feel colder to me because

> moist air holds more heat than dry air does.)

>

> The US NW is cool and damp.  Do you notice an improvement when the

> weather is warmer but damp? Warmer and drier? Cold but drier? If

> there is a co-factor, it may be easier to change the co-factor than

> the dampness situation.

>

>

>

>

 

>   Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

>   Subscribe:    Chinese Traditional Medicine-

>   Un:  Chinese Traditional Medicine-

>   List owner:   Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>  /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Michelle Clark "

> <michellec wrote:

>>

>> I live in the

>> Pacific Northwest, a very damp place. I have had my spleen

> removed and have

>> a tendency towards damp.

>

> This is something I don't understand very well (even though I have

> experienced it) and am hoping that some of the TCM clinicians on the

> list will add to. Even though anatomical organs are not equivalent to

> TCM Organs, the removal of an organ can and often will affect not just

> the corresponding TCM Organ but the meridian as well. In my case I had

> my gall bladder removed because of stones. The TCM

> herbalist could not get a pulse on me in the Gall Bladder position

> during the initial consultation. He asked if I had had gall bladder

> surgery.

>

> If your home is too damp, you may want to consider a dehumidifier. But

> be careful that it doesn't dry out your home too much as the

> Lungs and lungs don't like Dryness, and when air is too dry in

> living quarters, a person is more vulnerable to respiratory

> infections.

>

> A vacation in a drier locale may help. If you feel noticeably better in

> a drier locale than in the NW, you may want to consider a move. If

> this is impossible, vacationing once in a while may help.

>

> This is fine-tuning it some more, but sometimes there can be a co-

> factor operating with the Dampness. For example, Damp Heat bothers me

> a lot. Dry Cold bothers me a lot. I usually run a humidifier

> during the winter because I feel better with more humidity added to the

> air. (Probably because I still have some problems with Cold, and moist

> air holds more heat than dry air does. The temperature can be say 70

> degrees F, but the dry air will feel colder to me because

> moist air holds more heat than dry air does.)

>

> The US NW is cool and damp. Do you notice an improvement when the

> weather is warmer but damp? Warmer and drier? Cold but drier? If

> there is a co-factor, it may be easier to change the co-factor than the

> dampness situation.

> Vicotria, thank you for your response.

(and the others who replied as well)

I remember enjoying the dry heat of Northern California (Lassen, Old

Station) in the mountains. I can't do the heat of the valleys, say like

Redding, California. It does me in. Extremes of hot or cold..and I am more

sensitive to cold, are hard for me.

Michelle

>

>

>

>

 

> Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

>

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>

[Guest guest]

> i too live in the Pacific Northwest (Vancouver Island) and have

noticed

> that since moving here, my symptoms seem to be more pronounced.)

 

A person holding excess fluids will naturally have their symptoms made

worse by living in an envioronment with high humidity - just as a

person with sympoms of dryness and or heat will have aggrevation of

symptoms when living in the desert. Those with oxygen defeciency will

do poorly in the mountains. Those with cold symptoms will suffer in

low temperature. Those with damp heat will suffer in the tropics -

etc.

 

These are examples of excess creating defeciency. The more excess the

less functional we might become - excess causing defeciency - one of

the most common causes of pathology.

[Guest guest]

" Michelle Clark " michellec wrote:

 

> > Thank you,

> I believe I have that book. I recall garlic, ginger, radish

> (turnip?), aduki beans. Sot that book is pretty much all

> encompassing?

 

It's pretty good, I think there's some congees that are good for

dampness too. I'm sure there are other books that discuss foods that

are beneficial to specific conditions. I believe there's one by Bob

Flaws and another by Henry Lu; you may want to look them up.

 

sue

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Brenda Harriman <brenda

wrote:

>

> Can having Epstein Barr Syndrome (mononucleosis) lead to future

> problems with the spleen? I had this when I was younger, with an

> enlarged spleen being one of the symptoms/results. Now, I go to a

> Chinese Doctor and am being treated for Spleen deficiency and

stagnant

> blood.

 

It's more likely that a Spleen Deficiency existed before you came

down with mono or that they developed at the same time from the same

factors.

 

It's no coincidence that mononucleosis (aka glandular fever) tends

to be prevalent in school settings. A school setting is an

environment where there most likely are going to be practices that

weaken the Spleen and which also causes one to be more vulnerable to

infection. Not getting enough rest because of studying is one

factor. The Spleen is harmed by lack of sleep and overdoing.

Excessive thinking harms the Spleen. Poor diet, eating on the run,

eating at irregular times, and eating when upset weaken the Spleen.

 

The things that one does to treat mono also are things that help the

Spleen. Like getting the extra rest. Like getting better nutrition.

 

Things that weaken the Spleen can be present in any environment.

It's just that they tend to occur with greater frequency in

educational settings than they do in many other settings. Plus,

there is the prolonged contact with a large number of other people

which mono needs in order to spread.

 

The military is another environment in which factors can be present

that weaken the Spleen and which also encourage the spread of mono.

Educational settings and the military are two environments in which

a person most likely will be tested for mono when the person

complains of fatigue and/or pains in the side and certain other

things. I wish more doctors automatically would test for mono when a

person complains of fatigue. I believe that a lot of cases of mono

go undiagnosed because of assumptions about mono and who comes down

with it. Because they go undiagnosed, the person doesn't get the

treatment that also would strengthen the Spleen. The mono may (or

may not) go into remission in these cases but the Spleen weakness

continues.

 

A monospot test is an inexpensive test. Other countries use other

tests for mono, and I don't know how much they cost. But in the US

the test is inexpensive enough (under $10 the last time I checked)

that it should be ordered more frequently than it is.

 

Let's look at some of the erroneous assumptions about mono and who

gets it. These are assumptions that members of the general public

not only have but some healthcare professionals also have.

 

1. Children don't get mono. WRONG. Children do come down with

mono.

 

2. Mono is a disease of older teenagers and people in their

twenties, and older people don't get it. WRONG. Anyone of any age

can come down with mono.

 

3. Once one has mono one never gets it again. WRONG. It's now

recognized that there is such a thing as recurring mono.

 

4. Mono will go into remission on its own after a certain length of

time. WRONG. It's now recognized that there is such a thing as

chronic mononucleosis.

 

Ninety percent of cases of mono are caused by the Epstein Barr

Virus. Most of the remaining 10% are caused by CytoMagaloVirus

(CMV). (Info from the US NIH.) When EBV is the cause, there is a

test that will reveal if it's the first time the person has had

mono, if the person has had mono before, or if it's a case of

chronic mono. This test is fairly expensive (though not outrageously

expensive). It's usually reserved for people who have been diagnosed

with mono more than once and for people who don't recover from a

bout of mono in the expected length of time.

 

When the mono is due to CMV, the mono can mimic the symptoms of

hepatitis. This can happen with EBV too, but it's more likely with

CMV. BTW, CMV is a major cause of death in transplant patients.

This is why donors aren't accepted (or shouldn't be accepted) who

have an active case of mono and in some cases have a history of

chronic and/or recurring mono and whose blood has antibodies to CMV.

 

I look at mono as a warning sign that there's very likely some

serious Spleen weakness. The same factors that cause a person to be

prone to developing mono also are things that can weaken the Spleen.

 

In your case you may have recovered completely from the mono and

also corrected the Spleen weakness. Or at least corrected it enough

that it no longer was manifesting as mono.

 

Or, you may have recovered completly from the mono AND corrected the

original Spleen weakness, and the current Spleen weakness arose

later.

 

I've been simplifying things about mono from a TCM standpoint. In

cases of mono, there may very well also be Kidney imbalance, Latent

Heat problems, Liver Imbalance, Qi Stagnation, and/or Blood Stasis

problems. But I wanted to emphasize that the very factors that

increase one's chances of coming down with mono are the same factors

that can weaken the Spleen.