CFS Healing Timeframe Experiences

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your informative posts about CFS, especially since it is

so difficult to find encouraging healing information. I was comforted

to read that CFS is often completely curable - thank you for sharing that.

 

I was interested in hearing some opinions on timeframe for healing

CFS. I know it's different for every patient, but if someone started

with TCM herbs, proper diet, chi kung and plenty of rest from the

start, what is the timeframe range for recovery?

 

My husband (31 years old) has been really sick for 5 months with CFS.

There were signals in the last couple of years, but we can only

understand them now looking back. The first few months he had bad

stomach acid and a viral infection (tonsillitis). The third month

mental problems started, and fear. I stayed up with him most nights

trying to reassure him that he's going to be ok. Now he is feeling

much better mentally, but physically he has a terrible weakness and

muscle pain. He can't get out of bed except once a week when we go see

our herbalist. That day he gets intense muscle pain at night (about 12

hours after the trip). The herbalist says his energy is better, but

that there is still some stress left and dampness. My husband does

some chi kung and meditation, but for now he can handle only a few

minutes a day.

 

I was wondering if anyone has had experience with a similar case and

how long the healing process can take.

[Guest guest]

Hi, and welcome to Chinese Traditional Medicine.

 

I have CFIDS (and FMS). I got so much help from TCM that I learned

all I could about it and started this list so that others could

learn the basics and get help. There are several people on here

with CFIDS, but the list is not restricted just to people with

CFIDS. Today the list includes TCM students and various eastern and

western healthcare professionals as well as people wishing to learn

the basics or get questions answered.

 

I can't give you a time frame because the TCM clinical picture of

CFIDS can be as varied as the Western allopathic clinical picture.

By the time I discovered TCM, I already had been sick over 20 years.

The longer someone has been sick, the longer it takes to cure. I'm

not cured, but I'm in a lot better shape than I was before. At the

worst I was crawling to the bathroom at night and couldn't follow

the most mindless sitcom on TV. The more I learn, the more I

improve. If I can make the kind of drastic improvement I made, there

is a lot of hope for someone who has had it just a few years making

a complete recovery. (Though your husband always will have to pay

attention to having a healthy life style - good nutrition, enough

rest, etc. The Qi Gong exercises he is doing will help him greatly.)

 

Is your husband taking magnesium supplement? Mg deficiency can cause

the pain threshold to be lower than it normally would be. The Mg

also helped my muscle weakness and my fatigue.

 

One thing we do on this list is try identify things that can help

the TCM healing to procede more quickly than it otherwise would.

Sometimes TCM is best, sometimes allopathic medicine is best,

sometimes nutrition is best, sometimes something else is best, and

sometimes a combination works better than the sum of the parts.

 

Does your husband know his TCM diagnosis? That would help a lot.

 

Some basic intro info on TCM: Emotions are clues to diagnosis in

TCM. You mentioned fear. The Kidneys are most vulnerable to the

emotion fear, and people with Kidney imbalance tend to be more

fearful than people with strong Kidneys. This is not a diagnosis

(as that is impossible via email), but just some insight into the

kinds of things your healer will be considering and ruling in or

ruling out. BTW, the term " Kidneys " is capitalized because the TCM

Kidneys are not equivalent to the anatomical kidneys. The Kidneys

contain many of the functions of the kidneys but also the adreanal

glands. The Kidneys also " open into the ears " so TCM healers

automatically suspect the possibility of Kidney imbalance and rules

in or rules out if a person is having problems with the ears and/or

hearing. The Kidneys also are linked to the bone Marrow and to the

state of the teeth. (A lesson I'm recently having brought home to me

as I get some needed dental work done.)

 

Mg deficiency is not the only thing that can cause the pain

threshold to be lower than it normally would. Something called

Kidney Yin Deficiency also will do this. From a TCM standpoint, Yin

cools, calms, and moistens. Yin Deficiency symptoms frequently will

be more severe in the afternoon and evening. Does your husband

suffer from night sweats? Please describe you husband's facial

complexion. It it blotchy red (particularly on the cheeks),

uniformly ruddy, or pale? If it's pale, is it a dull pale or a

shiny pale?

 

I look forward to answering yours and your husband's questions.

There is a lot of help to be had these days for CFIDS, and the fact

that he hasn't been sick too many years is going to work in his

favor. A complete cure is very possible. Especially with all the

stuff he's doing to help himself.

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " za123z123a " <za123z123a

wrote:

>

> Thank you for your informative posts about CFS, especially since

it is

> so difficult to find encouraging healing information. I was

comforted

> to read that CFS is often completely curable - thank you for

sharing that.

>

> I was interested in hearing some opinions on timeframe for healing

> CFS. I know it's different for every patient, but if someone

started

> with TCM herbs, proper diet, chi kung and plenty of rest from the

> start, what is the timeframe range for recovery?

>

> My husband (31 years old) has been really sick for 5 months with

CFS.

> There were signals in the last couple of years, but we can only

> understand them now looking back. The first few months he had bad

> stomach acid and a viral infection (tonsillitis). The third month

> mental problems started, and fear. I stayed up with him most nights

> trying to reassure him that he's going to be ok. Now he is feeling

> much better mentally, but physically he has a terrible weakness and

> muscle pain. He can't get out of bed except once a week when we go

see

> our herbalist. That day he gets intense muscle pain at night

(about 12

> hours after the trip). The herbalist says his energy is better, but

> that there is still some stress left and dampness. My husband does

> some chi kung and meditation, but for now he can handle only a few

> minutes a day.

>

> I was wondering if anyone has had experience with a similar case

and

> how long the healing process can take.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for your detailed and encouraging response Victoria.

I'm really glad that TCM has helped so much with improving your health

- I read some of your earlier posts and it sounds like you've been

through a lot these 20 years. Even now it takes months to diagnose

CFIDS, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for you then.

 

My husband is not taking any Mg supplements, but we do eat a diet of

organic vegetables, legumes and seaweeds. It is something I will look

into - is there a daily Mg dosage that you feel works best? He has

" dampness, " so I'm not sure if all of the food he eats is getting

absorbed properly. Speaking of supplements, I was wondering if you've

had any experience with taking Colostrum as a supplement. I read in

Pitchford's Healing with Whole Foods book that a weak liver is often

at the root of imbalances in the body and that for people who weren't

breastfed as babies taking Colostrum can help restore the balance in

the liver. We just bought the supplement this week to try it out - so

far there is no increase in dampness as would happen with milk.

Colostrum also contains essential fatty acids which I think were

lacking from our diets (we started taking borage oil and fish only

only a couple of weeks ago, but have been taking ground up flax for

some time now).

 

Nights sweats were really bad for some time, but they are getting less

intense now. His complexion was dull pale for the last couple of

years, but it has improved a lot with herbs - there's more color in

the cheeks, especially when he wakes up. Looking back, I think Bob's

fist sign of imbalance was itchy scalp and hair loss which started

some years back. Then the paleness of the face set in, and more

frequent colds that took a long time to get over. After each cold he

had bad stomach acid for a week or so and an intense feeling of hunger

no matter how much he ate. Then, about 9 months ago, he started

feeling exhausted after working out and a tightness/burning in the

chest. Serious insomnia set in too and some nights he was only

sleeping 4-5 hours. Finally the whole body came crashing down 5 months

ago. His weight is 165 lbs, height 6 feet, age 31. He lost about 10

lbs of muscle mass so far.

 

It makes sense what you say about emotions. Bob was really worried

about work and that, combined with stress, very likely contributed to

his current state. He used to work out really hard in the gym which

probably drained his qi even more. We started chi kung and Tai Chi

about 2 months before his illness set in full force, and that was too

little too late. His hearing is above average, and fear is gone now -

maybe is was just a part of the healing process? (Intense fear lasted

about 2 months.)

 

We have an increased understanding of dampness - his shakes and

intense awareness of the heart beat diminish on some days and that

seems related to the weather and what he eats. His diagnosis is damp

heat, stagnation of liver qi, deficiency of spleen qi. There are

slight teeth marks on the tongue, white-yellowish tongue coating in

patches with a reddish base color.

 

Herbs are doing their part right now, but the diet seems pretty

difficult to get right. For example, ginger may be good for reducing

dampness, but it also increases heat. I read some of Vinod's posts

about balanced meals and I'm trying to cook that way. Bob also seems

to need meat once a day - I cut it in small pieces so it's mainly rice

with meat, but everybody says to eliminate meat to get rid of

dampness. It's difficult to judge when to listen to what the body

craves versus what everybody is saying. I suppose it's just a slow

process to try to re-establish that balance which was lost with years

of neglect. If you have any diet tips from your own experience, that

would be really helpful. Our herbalist told Bob to eat what makes him

feel good, but the herbalist grew up in China and I think perhaps he

doesn't realize how out of touch with our bodies we Westerners can be.

 

Thank you again for your time, Victoria, your Group is really great!

 

Sandy

[Guest guest]

I would like to post on this thread but have been traveling and do

not have time or opportunity right now.

 

One quick point about meat eating. It is true that meat is acidic

and makes those problems worse - but a large percentage of people

who have exhaustive syndromes need the Yin building energy of meat

and will not do well without it. For most once a day is suffecient.

Since the Sympathetic Nervous System is almost always involved in

these cases then red meats should be avoided - white meated fish,

chicken breasts - if a good source for organic pork is available

this is very strengthening - it is especialy useful for those who

are chronically cold. I would not reccomend any non-organic meats

since the hormones in them are very harmful to anyone suffering

extreme defeciency. If one is stable but defecient then meat every

other day is enough and often helps with the toxic condition.

Unstable people should take meat once a day - about 3 ounces. All

chemicals are harmful - toxic conditions of the blood and nervous

system make all symptoms worse - so drugs like anelgesics should be

avoided if possible - but sometimes they are necessary if pain can

not be brought under control otherwise - chronic pain is a severe

stress and often the need to control it must be weighed against the

toxic qualaties of analgesics. An herbalist can help one deal with

these side effects. As I have mentioned here before the key word in

substances ingested should be 'mild'. No excess qualaties in food as

this is further stimulating to the over stimulated SNS.

 

In Ayurveda the taking of oil massages are always advised in these

cases. Sesame oil (organic) is good. Since circulation is shutting

down then surface and muscle stimulation is helpful. If the case is

severe exercise is contraindicated. Mild movement is helpful - like

some Qi Kung exercises such as 'Arm Swinging'. External application

of heat and massage can help. No protocal should ever be used that

is tiring or stressful. The achievment of warm 'cozy'states inside

or outside help the SNS relax somewhat. Sex should be moderated as

it is draining to the already defecient Jing. It is possible to use

sexual energy to build the Jing but since few can use it properly I

usually do not reccomend it. Those suffering fear reactions and or

instabilty should moderate the sex energy as much as possible.

Unforunately for couples this is probably best done on a ritualistic

basis - like no sex more than once a week - spontanaiety in sex

might have to be regulated carefully. This is an important detail

often ignored. Jing defeciency is always a factor in exhasustive

states and it's preservation is crucial to recovery. This is

especially important when the case is unstable and has a highly

reactive component. Cutting out excessive,compulsive,tendancies in

this area is necessary to success as these compulsions are just

another symptom of the pathological processes. Sex regulation is

also very important when there is a problem with memory.

 

If there are anxiety states or fear reactions then one should eat

small easily digested warm meals several times a day - as well one

should take warming substances internally. Ginger tea is not 'hot'

it is warming and is the best friend of a chronically deffecient

state. " An Shen " formulas help considerably for reactive states and

insomnia. Vegetables are the key to balancing meats and other acid

forming foods.

 

Magnesium has been mentioned here several times - Magnesium and

potassium are helpful for many things such as neutralizing acids and

other toxins - and relaxing and calming of the SNS - but please

remember that these substances are being used in a medicinal manner

and not simply as mineral supplements. There are many TCM formulas

that do the same things as the alkalyzing minerals used in

supplements. Like oyster shell, dragon bone, pearl - etc. These

should be used in formulas like An Shen formulas - Buplerum and

Dragon Bone - etc.

 

My prejuidice in all exhaustive states is to rule out several

possible explanations - heart disease - liver disease - thyroid

disease. Many cases of CFS can be linked to these conditions. If one

wants to investigate this on ones on then I suggest using the blood

test service offered by Life Extension Foundation - one can order

tests to measure for liver disease - Antibody tests to both HepB and

HepC - I have mentioned here before the hidden epedimic in America

of HepC - many chronic disease states are clearly linked to this.

ALT should also be measured - a full blood workup can be ordered

without a prescription - very inexspensively. The hormone panel also

gives a lot of information especially concerning adrenal

functioning. I always think a cortisol test should be given - the

first time it is best to give the AM/PM panel - after that the

afternoon test is most useful since it gives the lowest cycle of the

day reading. Even low normal result can be very debilatating to

those already stressed. If the patient is house bound and unable to

go for blood tests then one can do the hormone tests at home through

one of the Saliva test services - like ZRT Labs. One can also get

thyroid tests from that company. If possible gofor the blood tests

since you need the liver tests as well as the Alkaline Phosphotase

since this indicates whetehr one has infectious processes. another

thing that is helpful on those comprehensive blood testsa is they

give info on minerals - like iron - and they give indications on

fasting blood sugar - all of this info is helpful to get a picture

on the general health condition of the individual. Example high iron

(even high normal) shows the liver is not processing iron well and

the iron load is building up - not good. Sodium level is also

helpful info since many stressed individuals do not metabolize salt

well - low salt is harmful to anyone under stress - but at the same

time many symptoms will develop when sodium is high - blood tests

should indicate middle range for sodium - neither high nor low and

the same for potassium. there should be a balance between these two

minerals. Most blood testing through Life Extension is done through

Lab Corp which most medium to larger towns will have. For those on a

limited budget I think the most informative tests are thyroid -

Hepatitis antibodys and cortisol.

 

More when I get home and more settled - on this one of my favorite

subjects.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your post, Vinod, your insights into illness and

nutrition are really great. Your paragraph on meat eating makes a lot

of sense based on our experience with Bob's needs. We've now settled

on a small amount of chicken since fish and pork seems to make his

scalp and anal itching worse. I'm guessing this is linked to his

weakened digestion somehow - I'm trying to better understand these

processes, that's why I've started investigating candida overgrowth

and its contribution to toxic conditions in the blood. I read that

dead candida cells floating around in the blood can contribute to

liver qi stagnation. We are thinking of trying some probiotics to

repopulate friendly bacteria in the intestines and balance out

candida. Is this something you've had experience with?

 

Regarding sexual activity, we noticed 5 months ago that it left him

really drained and have since been abstaining in order to not deplete

his energy reserves further.

 

Could you please let me know what An Shen formulas are (or where I can

go read more about it)? Insomnia is still a problem at night, although

it's gotten a lot better. Mulberries (a tip from Paul Pitchford's

book) right before sleep seem to work well for Bob and settle his

heart/mind.

 

As for blood tests, Bob had comprehensive blood work done 4 months ago

and everything was normal. Actually, the first test we did showed

elevated liver enzymes, but that was because of the herbs he was

taking which were increasing his liver function. We then stopped

herbs, had the test done again a week later, and it came back normal.

However, at that time stopping herbs was a bad idea and Bob started

feeling awful with chills and weakness. We also questioned the herbal

treatment and there was a lot of panic. It seems that sticking to the

herbal treatment, trusting our herbalist, and not relying too much on

what tests say is important mentally and physically at this point. We

haven't gone back to his Western MD because he had no idea what was

going on, especially since it's so draining for Bob to go outside.

 

Thank you for your help,

Sandy

[Guest guest]

I'm guessing this is linked to his

> weakened digestion somehow - I'm trying to better understand these

> processes, that's why I've started investigating candida overgrowth

> and its contribution to toxic conditions in the blood. I read that

> dead candida cells floating around in the blood can contribute to

> liver qi stagnation. We are thinking of trying some probiotics to

> repopulate friendly bacteria in the intestines and balance out

> candida. Is this something you've had experience with?

 

Many hypometabolic people have candida (and other yeast, mold, and

fungus) overgrowth but they are not causes they are co-factors. The

key here is improving digestion so that the PH of the intestines

will switch from a more acidic condition which is providing the

environment for these organisms to proliferate. Probiotics help but

they are also only palative. Even if we do repopulate the intestines

with friendly bacteria if the PH of the chyle coming from the

stomach is to acidic then the new bacteria will not thrive and will

be replaced by the pathogenic organisms.

 

> Could you please let me know what An Shen formulas are (or where I

can

> go read more about it)?

 

An Shen means 'pure shen' - there are many classic formulas for

supporting the Shen - in TCM the primary symbol of anxiety is

disturbed and or defecient Heart Shen - all of the classic

tranquilizer and insomnia medicines work on the Shen. In Ayurveda

the heart is the source of a tranquil and serene mind same in TCM -

keeping the heart calm is the secret to a peaceful life regardless

of what disease processes we may suffer.

 

The classic formulas are those such as Bupluerum and Dragon Bone -

An Shen Bu Xin Wan - such formulas can easily be found in the

Internet. A good source for quality herbs is Ancient Way - I find

the owner of that site Kevin (an accupunctrist) prices his herbs

very realistically. Also check out Ron Teagardens site Dragon Herbs -

look under the Shen building formulas - one excellant formula is

Pearl Shen.

>

> As for blood tests, Bob had comprehensive blood work done 4 months

ago

> and everything was normal. Actually, the first test we did showed

> elevated liver enzymes, but that was because of the herbs he was

> taking which were increasing his liver function.

 

This is not correct increasing liver function does not raise liver

enzyme levels on it's own. Elevated liver enzymes means some type of

infection or inflammation process is going on. Get antibody tests to

all three of the tested viruses that harm the liver - HepA - HepB -

HepC. This information is extremely valuable because if the tests

are negative it might be a confirmation of classic hypometabolic

syndrome with no thyroid involvement - but if the tests are positive

this will clearly give an explanation for the case and a line of

correct therapy. Enzyme levels by themsleves do not resolve the

issue because many people with cirrhosis and or chronic Liver

infection do not have elevated Liver enzymes. Chronic liver

infections and inflammations are completely manageable with TCM

protocals - it is an area where TCM trully shines. There is a master

TCM practioner in New York who specializes in Liver disease - Dr. Q

C Zhang - he does phone consultations. For any suffering chronic

Liver disease consulting with Dr. Zhang can turn your life around -

he has written a book (forget the name)- available from Amazon.

 

Perhaps the herbs were stimulating the infectious processes - only

having the tests will resolve the doubt. These tests can be ordered

from Life Extension Foundation without a prescription. The tests are

not Liver function tests - they are antibody tests to the Hepatitis

virus antibodies. Standard Liver tests often do not reveal even

severe chronic processes - example if the virus is in a quiet phase

then even long term infectious processes will not necessarily be

shown on standard tests.

 

Many people with debilitating exhaustion show nothing obvious on

standard blood tests - but even a casual observer can see these

people are malfunctioning on many levels.

 

>and not relying too much on

> what tests say is important mentally and physically at this point.

 

Testing organ function is not in any way against TCM. In fact I

believe that for many in modern society where it is often difficult

to find master herbalists - then confirmation of the issues is VERY

useful. Example - in your husbands case to be able to determine what

is or is not the cause might give a much clearer picture on how to

proceed in therapy. General defeciency states take one type of

therapy and Liver disease another. Some practioners are not

experienced enough to make the distinction between the various types

of exhaustion.