Victoria Dragon, good info about back pain!

[Guest guest]

Your post about back pain was interesting.As a recent back pain

sufferer,I think you're right to also include other therapies like

massage and chiro along with acupuncture treatment.I have found that

doing only one of these isn't quite enough.If the calf/thigh muscles

are so tight that they're pulling the back out of alignment after a

chiro adjustment then it makes perfect sense to add something like

massage to the healing regimen. Still though, even adding massage isn't

enough so adding acupuncture as part of the treatment might just solve

it once and for all.I didn't know that yin deficiency/kidney

contributed to back pain.I've heard my acupuncturist refer to that term

in the past but only in reference to menopausal symptoms like hot

flashes etc.Being a westerner I said something kinda dumb to him

like " Oh why don't you guys just call it excess yang instead of yin

deficient? " , lol...Anyway,I wonder how many treatments it would take to

strengthen the system for pain relief in the back?

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mermaidknows "

<mermaidknows wrote:

 

> If the calf/thigh muscles

> are so tight that they're pulling the back out of alignment after

a

> chiro adjustment then it makes perfect sense to add something like

> massage to the healing regimen.

 

Thanks. I didn't realize that tight calf and thigh muscles also

could pull the back out of alignment. Which explains why heating

pads to the legs also help my back and decrease fatigue.

 

> I didn't know that yin deficiency/kidney

> contributed to back pain.

 

Back pain is a general symptom of possible Kidney Deficiency. It

won't tell the TCM healer exactly what the Kidney imbalance is (if

there is Kidney imbalance), only that there may be Kidney imbalance.

It could be Kidney Yin, Yang, Qi, and/or Jing Deficiency. Or one of

the more detailed Kidney imbalances like Kidneys Refusing to Receive

Qi (which is a variant of Kidney Yang Deficiency).

 

What Yin Deficiency is associated with is lowering the pain

threshold. This applies to all pain, not just back pain. In extreme

cases, a touch can feel painful. In the case of injury, the pain

will feel worse than it would if the person were not Kidney Yin

Deficient. In the case of a person with an injury who is also Kidney

Yin Deficient, correcting the Yin Deficiency won't make the pain go

away entirely. It may lessen it some because the pain threshold

gets raised. The same remarks apply to magnesium deficiency.

(Warning: Too much Mg like too little can be fatal.)

 

> in the past but only in reference to menopausal symptoms like hot

> flashes etc.Being a westerner I said something kinda dumb to him

> like " Oh why don't you guys just call it excess yang instead of

yin

> deficient? " ,

 

The Kidneys supply both Yin and Yang to the rest of the body.

Whenever one is deficient, the other is almost sure to be deficient

though not to the same extent. This is why Kidney Yang tonic

formulas almost always contain at least one Kidney Yin tonic herb,

and Kidney Yin tonic formulas contain at least one Yang tonic herb.

When someone receives a diagnosis of Kidney Yang Deficiency or

Kidney Yin Deficiency, that's the one that's predominating relative

to the other. And one almost always implies the other though to a

much lesser extent. I was so Kidney Yang Deficient at one time that

it almost totally masked the Kidney Yin Deficiency symptoms.

 

However, there also are such things as Yin Excess and Yang Excess.

Think of a graph of Yin and Yang. Two columns. Now think of bar at

the top of those two equal columns that represent how much Yin and

Yang is needed by the body. At times the body will need more Yang

than Yin, and at other times more Yin than Yang. Yin predominates in

winter and at night; and Yang predominates in summer and during the

day. But there will be enough of both as needed in a healthy person.

 

What usually happens in both Yang and Yin Deficiency is that neither

column is high enough to reach the bar. One column will be lower

than the other, but neither will reach the bar.

 

An Excess of Yin or Yang usually comes about because the person

consumes too many foods and herbs that are Yang tonic or Yin tonic

(tonic means increasing)relative to the opposite. In such cases,

the other may actually reach the bar of what is needed, but because

of consuming too much of one, that column is now above the bar. For

example, the person would have enough Yin under normal

circumstances, but so much Yang has been added that it's now way

above Yin. There is an Excess of Yang.

 

Yin and Yang are supposed to be more or less equal. This doesn't

mean that one won't predominate over the other as the day and the

seasons ebb and flow. Instead of representing optimal level by a

bar, it would be better represented as a range. Within that range,

sometimes the Yin column will be higher than the Yang column (like

at night when the person is sleeping); sometimes the Yang column

will be higher than the Yin column (like when the person is active

during the day).

 

TCM pays far more attention to the effects of environment on health

than allopathic medicine does. Winter is the most Yin time of the

year. The environment is supplying Yin in addition to the Yin

supplied by food and herbs. People who are Yin Deficient frequently

will do better in the winter than in the summer because in the

winter the weather is supplying extra Yin. People who are Yang

Deficient tend to do worse in the winter than in the summer. Even

though they too need some Yin, their need for Yang is much greater

than their need for Yin. The weather supplying extra Yin just makes

the gap between Yang and Yin greater, and worsens their Yang

Deficiency symptoms. As a general rule they are going to need more

Yang herbs and foods in winter than they do during warmer months in

order to offset that extra Yin the environment is providing.

Actually even healthy people are going to need slightly more Yang

foods in winter than in summer. (But people also should eat foods

that match the season. It has to do with people " storing " the

energy of that season for future use. Sorry, but that's the best

way I can explain it.)

 

Something else to keep in mind is that in TCM everything is relative

to something else. For example, even though all Organs are Interior,

the Lungs are Exterior COMPARED TO the other Organs. The top of the

head is Yang COMPARED to the feet which are Yin COMPARED TO the top

of the head. The back of the body is Yang COMPARED TO the front

which is Yin COMPARED TO the back. Etc.

 

Students usually have to spend some time thinking about the relative

relationship between Yin and Yang before they gain an instinctive

understanding of the subject.

[Guest guest]

victoria_dragon wrote:

 

Something else to keep in mind is that in TCM everything is relative

to something else. For example, even though all Organs are Interior,

the Lungs are Exterior COMPARED TO the other Organs. The top of the

head is Yang COMPARED to the feet which are Yin COMPARED TO the top

of the head. The back of the body is Yang COMPARED TO the front

which is Yin COMPARED TO the back. Etc.

 

 

A good explanation for this was that everything has a sunny and a shady side,

hills trees, etc. However, when you look at humans you think of the person as

being on all fours. Feet and hands are shady, entire head is sunny, the back is

sunny and the tummy is shady. Makes it easy to remember why the Ren meridian is

a Sea of Yin. I think I got that explanation on tcmstudent.com

 

It is interesting to note that in biomedicine, too, the way the head is

classified in relationship to the body is as though the person is on all fours.

I wonder what westerners observed to come to the same way of thinking about

that.

 

Anyway, I am glad I found this list because I have a far better frame of

reference than I would have otherwise. Aced my first exam. Thanks for all you

do!

 

 

One question, though . . . It turns out I DO have kidney yang and spleen qi

deficiency. What I understand better now is that the spleen issues have led to

the kidney yang, or perhaps exaggerated a constitutional vulnerability. I am

supposed to eat all cooked foods because of the spleen issues, I get that. (This

is a challenge, dear lord, because I am also learning how to cook.) But, for

instance, should I also avoid wheat because it is very dampening? My impression

is that the traditional chinese diet contains little wheat if any. I have

noticed that when I eat wheat, my cravings for sweets tend to resurface, too.

 

How is cold or heat, damp or dryness, wind, etc, related to the diagnosis? I

have been reading Katptchuk's The Web, but so far I am still not clear on this.

(I have healing with whole foods, too, but I have so much reading for class, I

was surprised it was a such a large and thick volume . . .) Is it another aspect

of the diagnosis, or is more of a tool to help recognize one of the 8 syndromes?

 

Zenisis