erie ?s, Shaman, purgatory, & Marcos...

[Guest guest]

Dear Marcos & All,

 

I remember a small incident when I was a little girl. I was in a

religious education class. The instructor was teaching about the

biblical story of Adam and Eve. As the lesson was being presented

to the students, I began to feel awful and hateful because I was

born a girl. I soon began to believe that women were inferior to

men because of Eve's guilt. As I grew, I experienced my life and

viewed the world from this guilty perspective.

 

Dogmas are strange to overcome; especially when they appear to be

divine.

 

Here is a pass-along - please enjoy...

 

Do not believe in anything (simply) because you have heard it.

Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for

many generations.

Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.

Do not believe in anything (simply) because it is found written in

your religious books.

Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers

and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything

agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one

and all then accept it and live up to it.

 

~Guatama Buddha

Anguttara Nikaya Vol I, pp. 188-193, R.T.S. Ed.

 

Have a good night, Danamarie

 

 

>

> Hello Dannamarie,

> Yes, the official position of the Church on suicide is

> depressing...to say the least, that and other dogma made me

> search out for the reasons and reasonableness of things from

> other sources.

> Anyway, there are, as we see in Chinese beliefs(among others),

> ways to alleviate the Hereafter for those who may be suffering,

> and that is to offer prayers, dedicate acts of charity and ritual

> offerings for the deceased one. That is seen on other religions

> also.

> Marcos

>

> --- das4145 <asenat45@h...> escreveu:

>

> > Dear Marcos & All,

> >

> > My understanding is... the many Christian churches teach a

> > doctrine

> > that if a person takes his/her own life, they are forever

> > condemned

> > to hell. I don't believe that Catholicism gives a pardon to

> > suicide

> > victims to go to purgatory. When my brother took his life, it

> > was

> > this doctrine that I rebuked. It is different when a

> > punishment is

> > just explained in words, but... when it became a personal

> > reality, I

> > could not accept this doctrine for someone I love. This is

> > where I

> > began my search 3 1/2 years ago....

> >

> > Many thanks for your warmth, concern, and suggestion.

> >

> > Sincerely, Danamarie

> >

> > PS: If I have posted incorrect information, please correct it

> > )

> >

> > *****

> >

> > Hello Danamarie,

> >

> > Well, the Catholic Christians have an old tradition of praying

> > for the deceased at masses, and there are even whole orders of

> > nuns and monks who basically pray for the dead every day, to

> > alleviate their suffering(if in 'Purgatory', however one

> > understands this; as a state or a place), and bring them Light

> > and Peace.

> >

> > peace be with you,

> > Marcos

> >

> >

> >

>

>

_____

> doce lar. Faça do sua homepage.

> http://br./homepageset.html

>

[Guest guest]

Well, the problem is that the Bible can be read at many levels,

the first is the literal one, then there is the moral one, and

two (five, according to some) more symbolic levels of

understanding. The Adam and Eve episode in the

literal(simplistic) sense victimises women, and was acceptable to

an archaic patriarchal society.

The symbolic is more interesting and elucidating: The view that

adam and eve in paradise reflects the innocent state of

childhood, or of a golden age, or a state before

incarnation(Earlier Heaven?), and at with the eating of the

fruit: puberty, bronze or iron age, incarnation on this

earth(Later Heaven). And the expulsion from paradise and the

curse(genesis3,13-15): the hard labor of man/womanhood,

explains/justifies all vicissitudes of our fate on earth.

Redemption is an INTERNAL affair(cleansing of guilt), Jesus

said/implied in the Gospels(some apocryphal ones too) that the

Kingdom of Heaven was already here, in the hearts of those that

followed his lessons in perfection(see from (see Matthew 5. to

8). The Original Sin is rejected by Jesus himself when he says

that only those who become like children shall see the Kingdom of

God(matthew 19.13-15,mark10.13-16,luke18,15-17), in other words:

children are pure, and have no sin!

Jesus is a guide to personal redemption from sin and error and

from separation to living in the Kingdom of Heaven HERE ON EARTH!

As where, and are, all great spiritual guides of humanity.

Jesus confirms this when he says that he did not come to

destroy, but to complete the Law, that is: he does not invalidate

the teachings passed on by earlier God inspired guides, but

renews, cuts out the later corruptions introduced in the Law by

egotistic religious leaders(the Pharisees in his time) and

expands them.

And he had woman disciples too, after all, man and woman came

from one body(adam WITH his ribs!), as the Elohim(the Gods) said

in Genesis: " Let US make him in Our image;Man AND Woman we shall

make him " . This 'him' is a figure of speech, for the original

Adam of the story was androgynous.

 

Marcos

 

--- das4145 <asenat45 escreveu:

 

> Dear Marcos & All,

>

> I remember a small incident when I was a little girl. I was in

> a

> religious education class. The instructor was teaching about

> the

> biblical story of Adam and Eve. As the lesson was being

> presented

> to the students, I began to feel awful and hateful because I

> was

> born a girl. I soon began to believe that women were inferior

> to

> men because of Eve's guilt. As I grew, I experienced my life

> and

> viewed the world from this guilty perspective.

>

> Dogmas are strange to overcome; especially when they appear to

> be

> divine.

>

> Here is a pass-along - please enjoy...

>

> Do not believe in anything (simply) because you have heard it.

> Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down

> for

> many generations.

> Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by

> many.

> Do not believe in anything (simply) because it is found written

> in

> your religious books.

> Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your

> teachers

> and elders.

> But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything

>

> agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of

> one

> and all then accept it and live up to it.

>

> ~Guatama Buddha

> Anguttara Nikaya Vol I, pp. 188-193, R.T.S. Ed.

>

> Have a good night, Danamarie

>

>

> >

> > Hello Dannamarie,

> > Yes, the official position of the Church on suicide is

> > depressing...to say the least, that and other dogma made me

> > search out for the reasons and reasonableness of things from

> > other sources.

> > Anyway, there are, as we see in Chinese beliefs(among

> others),

> > ways to alleviate the Hereafter for those who may be

> suffering,

> > and that is to offer prayers, dedicate acts of charity and

> ritual

> > offerings for the deceased one. That is seen on other

> religions

> > also.

> > Marcos

> >

> > --- das4145 <asenat45@h...> escreveu:

> >

> > > Dear Marcos & All,

> > >

> > > My understanding is... the many Christian churches teach a

> > > doctrine

> > > that if a person takes his/her own life, they are forever

> > > condemned

> > > to hell. I don't believe that Catholicism gives a pardon

> to

> > > suicide

> > > victims to go to purgatory. When my brother took his life,

> it

> > > was

> > > this doctrine that I rebuked. It is different when a

> > > punishment is

> > > just explained in words, but... when it became a personal

> > > reality, I

> > > could not accept this doctrine for someone I love. This is

> > > where I

> > > began my search 3 1/2 years ago....

> > >

> > > Many thanks for your warmth, concern, and suggestion.

> > >

> > > Sincerely, Danamarie

> > >

> > > PS: If I have posted incorrect information, please correct

> it

> > > )

> > >

> > > *****

> > >

> > > Hello Danamarie,

> > >

> > > Well, the Catholic Christians have an old tradition of

> praying

> > > for the deceased at masses, and there are even whole orders

> of

> > > nuns and monks who basically pray for the dead every day,

> to

> > > alleviate their suffering(if in 'Purgatory', however one

> > > understands this; as a state or a place), and bring them

> Light

> > > and Peace.

> > >

> > > peace be with you,

> > > Marcos

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____

doce lar. Faça do sua homepage.

http://br./homepageset.html