advice on depression and herbs

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for all the wonderful advice I've received from

this

list over the last few months. Sorry to repeat the same intro, but

for the past 13 months I've been going for TCM treatments for

major

depression and anxiety. I was diagnosed by my first doctor as having

a shen disturbance with spleen and kidney qi deficiency with

phlegm. When I asked my current doctor for his diagnosis he said it

was " just words, " and didn't offer any more.

Unfortunately, I'm not

doing very well on the herbal formula I've been on since

February,

and when the doctor decided again last week to not to change it,

while I sat crying in front of him, I wanted to get some other

opinions.

 

I've been receiving acupuncture treatments either every week, or

every other week for the entire 13 months. I'm not sure about the

specific acupuncture points, but after seven months of mainly front

treatments and no improvement, I now receive back treatments, with

what seems like about 25 or so needles. Last month I started having

cupping treatments as well. I also see a therapist, and a massage

therapist, to approach the problem from all angles.

 

Since it's now over a year, and I've seen two different

doctors, I'm

ready to throw in the towel with TCM, but before I do, I wanted to

check with anyone on the list who might have some input on the

herbal formula I take. Some of these are mentioned in Bob Flaws'

Chinese Medical Psychiatry book, but I'm not sure of the dosages

or

if they are in the correct combinations. I've also taken eight

different patens, but didn't feel anything except on Wen Dan Tang

for a few months last summer. After that, I was switched to

powdered herbal formulas.

 

My current formula consists of: Bai Zhu (12), Chen Pi (9), Dan Nan

Xing (9), Dan Shen (9), Dang Shen (9), Fu Shen 12), Gan Cao (6), Hou

Ma Ren (6), Huang Qin (9), Mu Li (12), Shi Chang Pu (9), Tao Ren

(12), Yuan Zhi (9), Zhen Zhu Mu (12), Zhi Shi (6), Zhu Ru (12).

 

I've been on it since January, and am still not feeling very

well.

Is it very conservative, or would you consider it very strong? If

someone is not considerable better after six months, taking three

spoons of it three times a day, can you suggest anything else to

try, or add, or is it time to throw in the towel and admit, I

can't

get well with TCM?

 

I've found descriptions of a few of these herbs, and some of them

are listed as " tranquilizing, " so it also worries me that

taking

them three times a day for six months may make it difficult to

suddenly stop them. Is withdrawal ever a problem from herbs,

especially the tranquilizing ones mentioned above, and if so what

might help? Are these mainly shen and qi herbs? Is the spleen and

kidney deficiency being addressed in this formula?

 

I'm sorry to have so many questions, but my main concern is to

ask

if anything looks or sounds odd, or gives any clue why I can't

get

well, and also to find out if stopping this type of formula might be

difficult, or cause any withdrawal problems. After 13 months is

there anything else left to try, or should I just admit defeat?

 

Regardless of the answer, this is a wonderful list, and I want to

thank Victoria again for all her work in lovingly creating and

running it.

 

Thank you!

Linda

[Guest guest]

Linda,

I have dealt with the same thing - an anxiety disorder and panic attacks

with some depression and after two years of trying just about every herbal

mixture out there I had to admit that my anxiety was just getting in the way of

me

living a normal life...I came to the conclusion that herbs can make you feel

better, but in some cases they can only do so much and need to be

complemented with allopathic treatment. Now I use both and I feel totally

balanced...such a relief! Take care, Jill

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

What is allopathic treatment? I am having the same problem, only mine is

complicated with Agoraphobia.

 

curleetop109 wrote:Linda,

I have dealt with the same thing - an anxiety disorder and panic attacks

with some depression and after two years of trying just about every herbal

mixture out there I had to admit that my anxiety was just getting in the way of

me

living a normal life...I came to the conclusion that herbs can make you feel

better, but in some cases they can only do so much and need to be

complemented with allopathic treatment. Now I use both and I feel totally

balanced...such a relief! Take care, Jill

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Guess I should have defined some things alittle better! Sorry!!!! Allopathic

Treatment is regular western medicine. For depression or anxiety this would

mean anti-anxiety or antidepressant medication. Right now I take Lexapro (an

antidepressant) at the lowest possible dose and I supplement it with Flax

seed oil, a B-complex vitamin, and a diet high in plant based protein. For the

really bad days when nothing seems to be working I take an herbal extract that

Wise Woman Herbals makes called Kalmerite. It's the best thing out there that

doesnt contraindicate (mix badly) with any meds. Also Traditional Medicinals

makes a tea called Easy Now that works wonders! And believe me I have done

some serious searching and researching! I take some other medicine for a

seizure disorder so I cant take everything (evn when it comes to herbs) Saint

John's wort and Kava are supposedly very effective but I have to steer clear of

those. If you want to ask any other questions feel free to email me.

Jill

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jill:

 

Have you ever looked into the possibility that

depressiona and the seizure disorder might have a

relationship?

 

The Chinese word for epilepsy, and the word for

withdrawal, and the word for mania and depression, all

share the same first character, " dian. " There's a

Chinese book of case studies that combines all of

these in the same volume.

 

Perhaps on some level in TCM there is a way to address

all of these conditions?

 

Regards, Jack

 

I take some other medicine for a

> seizure disorder so I cant take everything (evn

> when it comes to herbs) Saint

> John's wort and Kava are supposedly very effective

> but I have to steer clear of

> those. If you want to ask any other questions feel

> free to email me.

> Jill

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I suffered from panic attacks and was treated with medication.

Later suffered chronic fatigue. Found many supplements helpful

but became depressed also. I tried every supplment for my

depression but nothing responds for me except medication.

 

However when I had my liver and spleen meridian worked on

I felt energetic and digestion felt well and a general well being.

The only thing I didn't feel change was the bad memory and

burning I would feel at the top of my head. I also had a change

in feeling in my legs. The acupuncture helped but didn't correct

the few symptoms. I went on Prozac and it seems to be helping

me with all those symptoms now. Time is of the essence when

you are at the bottom. Whatever works use it.

 

Acupuncture works so well for so many things I will always

stick by it.

 

Liz D.

 

 

> [Original Message]

> <curleetop109

> <Chinese Traditional Medicine >

> 6/13/2005 8:52:48 AM

> Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] advice on depression and herbs

>

> Linda,

> I have dealt with the same thing - an anxiety disorder and panic attacks

> with some depression and after two years of trying just about every

herbal

> mixture out there I had to admit that my anxiety was just getting in the

way of me

> living a normal life...I came to the conclusion that herbs can make you

feel

> better, but in some cases they can only do so much and need to be

> complemented with allopathic treatment. Now I use both and I feel

totally

> balanced...such a relief! Take care, Jill

>

>