Guest guest Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Hi! Good to be here. Does anyone have any good info on treating people with chronic heapatitis c infection? One of my clients has very feint and deep liver pulse,spleen is very weak,kidney yin and yang is almost empty. His appetite is good,so is his digestion,tongue is slightly covered in a very pale white coating,red spots on the tip and slightly less red spots on the sides. He is very tired and experiences intermittent sharp stich like pains arounf the area of the portal vein area in the liver. Unlike typical jaundice or hep B he does not shoew any symptoms of fire toxins in the blood or any other part of the body,he doesnt get fevers or sweats.There are signs of liver and gallbladder stagnation. This patient underwent interferon therapy last year for 6 months ,cleared the virus while on the treatment,but relapsed 2 months after treatment(last january,since then I have used herbs to get rid of the fire toxins and heat in his blood(mainly due to the drugs which were pretty toxic to say the least!) His alt liver functions 2 months ago were at 160 which is moderately high,this couls well indicate liver inflammation,and viral activity,all his other blood counts were back to normal since the treatment ,plateles normal,wbc normal ,thyroid ,diabetes etc all within normal ranges. As I mentioned before he has chronic fatigue and anxiety about doing anything that requires too much energy(kidney yin and yang severly depleted!)So he has little or no motivation to do much in terms of work,creativity etc.So he rests most of the time and occasionally gets a bit odf increased energy now and again,but these periods seem to be lessening due to the deep seated nature of the condition,he contracted hep c about 20 years ago,found out he had it in 1999.The genotype of the virus is a 3a. I have done a bit of research in Dr Zhangs herbal protocols,they seem to get good results.All of his patients take a blood sttsis formula I get a good feeling about approaching this treatment by using a blood stasis formula, very similiar to this one: Dang Gui Radix Angelicae Sinensis Sheng Di Huang Radix Rehmanniae Chuan Xiong Rhizoma Chuanxiong Chi Shao Radix Paeoniae Rubra Tao Ren Semen Persicae Hong Hua Flos Carthami Chai Hu Radix Bupleuri Zhi Ke Fructus Aurantii Niu Xi Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae Jie Geng Radix Platycodi Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae Dan Shen Radix Salviae Miltiorrhizae Yuan Zhi Radix Polygalae Yu Jin Tuber Curcumae He Huan Pi Cortex Albizziae From what I can see so far is that he uses a blood statsis formula modified along the lines of xue fu zhu yu tang ,along with ligistrin and artemesia formulas.I think the herbs used are highly concentrated herb extracts probably 10:1 potency. I also did some research into the health concerns formulas which DR Misha Cohen uses called hepatoplex 2 THERAPEUTIC ACTIONS: Chronic hepatitis infection with cirrhosis and fibrosis, Improved micro circulation in the capillaries. CHINESE THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS: Invigorate the Blood Clear damp Heat INGREDIENTS: Capillaris (Yin Chen Hao), Carthamus (Hong Hua), Tang-kuei root (Dang Gui), Red Peony root (Chi Shao), Salvia root (Dan Shen), Immature Citrus Peel (Qing Pi), Buddha Hand fruit (Fo Shou), Persica seed (Tao Ren), Ligusticum (Chuan Xiong), Licorice root (Gan Cao). I live in ireland ,close to the uk,and its very expensive to get formulas from america,one of my herbal suppliers can supply formulas but needs the correct ammounts to make them! Dr Zhang and hepapro(the people that sell his formulas) and health concerns wont give me the details /quantities of the formulas! Any ideas. Thanks in advance from Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Hi Rob, I have been using for some years now CH-100 from Cathay Herbal Labs. (www.cathayherbal.com ) This formulation was has done wonders for my patients with Hep-C, and had a small clinical trial conducted by Gastroenterology Unit, John Hunter Hospital and University of Western Sydney. Cheers Dr. John Clark - Rob Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:50 AM [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Treatment for chronic hepatitis c Hi! Good to be here. Does anyone have any good info on treating people with chronic heapatitis c infection? ---------- Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release 16/05/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Small amounts of wu wei zi have also been shown to normalize liver enzymes. Also western herbs milk thistle and dandelion root (pu gong yin). Milk thistle though is a first choice. Bob Rob <emeerob wrote: Hi! Good to be here. Does anyone have any good info on treating people with chronic heapatitis c infection? One of my clients has very feint and deep liver pulse,spleen is very weak,kidney yin and yang is almost empty. His appetite is good,so is his digestion,tongue is slightly covered in a very pale white coating,red spots on the tip and slightly less red spots on the sides. He is very tired and experiences intermittent sharp stich like pains arounf the area of the portal vein area in the liver. Unlike typical jaundice or hep B he does not shoew any symptoms of fire toxins in the blood or any other part of the body,he doesnt get fevers or sweats.There are signs of liver and gallbladder stagnation. This patient underwent interferon therapy last year for 6 months ,cleared the virus while on the treatment,but relapsed 2 months after treatment(last january,since then I have used herbs to get rid of the fire toxins and heat in his blood(mainly due to the drugs which were pretty toxic to say the least!) His alt liver functions 2 months ago were at 160 which is moderately high,this couls well indicate liver inflammation,and viral activity,all his other blood counts were back to normal since the treatment ,plateles normal,wbc normal ,thyroid ,diabetes etc all within normal ranges. As I mentioned before he has chronic fatigue and anxiety about doing anything that requires too much energy(kidney yin and yang severly depleted!)So he has little or no motivation to do much in terms of work,creativity etc.So he rests most of the time and occasionally gets a bit odf increased energy now and again,but these periods seem to be lessening due to the deep seated nature of the condition,he contracted hep c about 20 years ago,found out he had it in 1999.The genotype of the virus is a 3a. I have done a bit of research in Dr Zhangs herbal protocols,they seem to get good results.All of his patients take a blood sttsis formula I get a good feeling about approaching this treatment by using a blood stasis formula, very similiar to this one: Dang Gui Radix Angelicae Sinensis Sheng Di Huang Radix Rehmanniae Chuan Xiong Rhizoma Chuanxiong Chi Shao Radix Paeoniae Rubra Tao Ren Semen Persicae Hong Hua Flos Carthami Chai Hu Radix Bupleuri Zhi Ke Fructus Aurantii Niu Xi Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae Jie Geng Radix Platycodi Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae Dan Shen Radix Salviae Miltiorrhizae Yuan Zhi Radix Polygalae Yu Jin Tuber Curcumae He Huan Pi Cortex Albizziae From what I can see so far is that he uses a blood statsis formula modified along the lines of xue fu zhu yu tang ,along with ligistrin and artemesia formulas.I think the herbs used are highly concentrated herb extracts probably 10:1 potency. I also did some research into the health concerns formulas which DR Misha Cohen uses called hepatoplex 2 THERAPEUTIC ACTIONS: Chronic hepatitis infection with cirrhosis and fibrosis, Improved micro circulation in the capillaries. CHINESE THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS: Invigorate the Blood Clear damp Heat INGREDIENTS: Capillaris (Yin Chen Hao), Carthamus (Hong Hua), Tang-kuei root (Dang Gui), Red Peony root (Chi Shao), Salvia root (Dan Shen), Immature Citrus Peel (Qing Pi), Buddha Hand fruit (Fo Shou), Persica seed (Tao Ren), Ligusticum (Chuan Xiong), Licorice root (Gan Cao). I live in ireland ,close to the uk,and its very expensive to get formulas from america,one of my herbal suppliers can supply formulas but needs the correct ammounts to make them! Dr Zhang and hepapro(the people that sell his formulas) and health concerns wont give me the details /quantities of the formulas! Any ideas. Thanks in advance from Rob Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 In what form should the milk thistle be taken, seeds, round or whole? decocted or powdered and encapsulated, are these herbs supposed to clear the body of the virus, or do they just allay symptoms? In someone with the virus,chronically, is it treated as a cold or warm disease ,or does it depend on the patients symptomolgy. How is hep c at its inception classified, hot or cold ? And does one treat for the liver symptoms of fibrosis , chirrosis, inflammation, if they are acute in a chronic case,or do you look at teh system as a whole and and attempt to balance that ? Rabiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 HI Misha Cohen has written a book on Integrated TCM/Western Treatment of Hep. C. Called the Hep C help Book. She also teaches LONG 3 day courses on hep C treatment. I took it in Feb and it was one of the best CE classes I have ever taken. She's doing another class in Sept. Some of the things Misha goes into are understanding progression of Hep C, reading lab tests and how that effects TCM TX. and how treatment differs depending on the stage as well as herb drug interactions. (For instance Milk Thistle is great for helping the liver regenerate, but can cause major complications if taken with interferon.) So get Misha's book or take her class and a lot of your questions will be answered Shad Reinstein L.AC, M.Ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 All of these questions are open to debate and are individual based on the patient. I would suggest that you research the pro/con of the western herbs consider the patients willingness to participate and of course the lifestyle of the patient (what are they doing/not doing to further the disease). Although it is common to put hep in remission permentatly I do not know of cases that the disease has been cured. Bob Remediesbyrabiah wrote: In what form should the milk thistle be taken, seeds, round or whole? decocted or powdered and encapsulated, are these herbs supposed to clear the body of the virus, or do they just allay symptoms? In someone with the virus,chronically, is it treated as a cold or warm disease ,or does it depend on the patients symptomolgy. How is hep c at its inception classified, hot or cold ? And does one treat for the liver symptoms of fibrosis , chirrosis, inflammation, if they are acute in a chronic case,or do you look at teh system as a whole and and attempt to balance that ? Rabiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Hi R, In my experience milkthistle is most effective in a powdered standardised form,about 800mgs daily(spread out) It protects the liver cells from damage and toxins,freeradicals etc.Milkthistle doesnt get rid of the virus,ands in most cases(i know alot of folk with hepc)herbal formulas will not clear the virus. So the main focus of the treatment is to minimise damage to the liver,reduce liver inflammation and support /modulate the immunesystem. From what Ive seen hep c is more like yin disease,in that it is slow in its effects on the bodies(in some people it can be relatively inactive for 10 years after initial infection,then the infected person begins to notice fatigue and more debilitating effects.In its effect it is unlike hep b or hep a, which is definately much more firey and yang pathologically. There have been a few formulas aimed specifically at the virus to reduce it some of them contain KU Shen(sophora root) and isatis root. here are some very well researched articles,hope these help best wishes from Rob http://www.itmonline.org/arts/hepcstrat.htm http://www.itmonline.org/arts/hepcstrat.htm http://www.itmonline.org/arts/hepc2k1.htm Chinese Traditional Medicine , Remediesbyrabiah@a... wrote: > In what form should the milk thistle be taken, seeds, round or whole? > decocted or powdered and encapsulated, are these herbs supposed to clear the body > of the virus, or do they just allay symptoms? In someone with the > virus,chronically, is it treated as a cold or warm disease ,or does it depend on the > patients symptomolgy. > How is hep c at its inception classified, hot or cold ? And does one treat > for the liver symptoms of fibrosis , chirrosis, inflammation, if they are acute > in a chronic case,or do you look at teh system as a whole and and attempt to > balance that ? > Rabiah > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Hi John, thanks for that,I will look into this kind regards from Rob Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Dr. John Clark " <ru_cheng@i...> wrote: > Hi Rob, > I have been using for some years now CH-100 from Cathay Herbal Labs. (www.cathayherbal.com ) > This formulation was has done wonders for my patients with Hep-C, and had a small clinical trial conducted by Gastroenterology Unit, John Hunter Hospital and University of Western Sydney. > > Cheers > Dr. John Clark > > > - > Rob > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:50 AM > [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Treatment for chronic hepatitis c > > > Hi! Good to be here. > Does anyone have any good info on treating people with chronic > heapatitis c infection? > > ---------- > > > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.11 - Release 16/05/2005 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Thanks Bob, yes schisandra especially,I find all these very useful best wishes from Rob Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist> wrote: > Small amounts of wu wei zi have also been shown to normalize liver enzymes. Also western herbs milk thistle and dandelion root (pu gong yin). Milk thistle though is a first choice. > Bob > > Rob <emeerob> wrote: > Hi! Good to be here. > Does anyone have any good info on treating people with chronic > heapatitis c infection? > One of my clients has very feint and deep liver pulse,spleen is very > weak,kidney yin and yang is almost empty. > His appetite is good,so is his digestion,tongue is slightly covered in > a very pale white coating,red spots on the tip and slightly less red > spots on the sides. > He is very tired and experiences intermittent sharp stich like pains > arounf the area of the portal vein area in the liver. > Unlike typical jaundice or hep B he does not shoew any symptoms of > fire toxins in the blood or any other part of the body,he doesnt get > fevers or sweats.There are signs of liver and gallbladder stagnation. > This patient underwent interferon therapy last year for 6 months > ,cleared the virus while on the treatment,but relapsed 2 months after > treatment(last january,since then I have used herbs to get rid of the > fire toxins and heat in his blood(mainly due to the drugs which were > pretty toxic to say the least!) > His alt liver functions 2 months ago were at 160 which is moderately > high,this couls well indicate liver inflammation,and viral > activity,all his other blood counts were back to normal since the > treatment ,plateles normal,wbc normal ,thyroid ,diabetes etc all > within normal ranges. > As I mentioned before he has chronic fatigue and anxiety about doing > anything that requires too much energy(kidney yin and yang severly > depleted!)So he has little or no motivation to do much in terms of > work,creativity etc.So he rests most of the time and occasionally gets > a bit odf increased energy now and again,but these periods seem to be > lessening due to the deep seated nature of the condition,he contracted > hep c about 20 years ago,found out he had it in 1999.The genotype of > the virus is a 3a. > > > I have done a bit of research in Dr Zhangs herbal protocols,they seem > to get good results.All of his patients take a blood sttsis formula > I get a good feeling about approaching this treatment by using a blood > stasis formula, very similiar to this one: > Dang Gui Radix Angelicae Sinensis > Sheng Di Huang Radix Rehmanniae > Chuan Xiong Rhizoma Chuanxiong > Chi Shao Radix Paeoniae Rubra > Tao Ren Semen Persicae > Hong Hua Flos Carthami > Chai Hu Radix Bupleuri > Zhi Ke Fructus Aurantii Niu Xi Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae > Jie Geng Radix Platycodi > Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae > Dan Shen Radix Salviae Miltiorrhizae > Yuan Zhi Radix Polygalae > Yu Jin Tuber Curcumae > He Huan Pi Cortex Albizziae > > > From what I can see so far is that he uses a blood statsis formula > modified along the lines of xue fu zhu yu tang ,along with ligistrin > and artemesia formulas.I think the herbs used are highly concentrated > herb extracts probably 10:1 potency. > I also did some research into the health concerns formulas which DR > Misha Cohen uses called hepatoplex 2 > > THERAPEUTIC ACTIONS: > Chronic hepatitis infection with cirrhosis and > fibrosis, Improved micro circulation in the > capillaries. > CHINESE THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS: > Invigorate the Blood > Clear damp Heat > INGREDIENTS: > Capillaris (Yin Chen Hao), Carthamus (Hong > Hua), Tang-kuei root (Dang Gui), Red Peony > root (Chi Shao), Salvia root (Dan Shen), > Immature Citrus Peel (Qing Pi), Buddha Hand > fruit (Fo Shou), Persica seed (Tao Ren), > Ligusticum (Chuan Xiong), Licorice root (Gan > Cao). > I live in ireland ,close to the uk,and its very expensive to get > formulas from america,one of my herbal suppliers can supply formulas > but needs the correct ammounts to make them! > Dr Zhang and hepapro(the people that sell his formulas) and health > concerns wont give me the details /quantities of the formulas! > Any ideas. > > Thanks in advance from Rob > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Thanks Shad, I will buy a copy of the book,I dont think Misha comes over to Europe,yet!! We have John Tindall,doing training courses in the UK and Ireland,he is based at the Yuan Clinic in London. Another excellent book on Hep c is called the hepatitis c handbook by Matthew Dolan ( a friend of mine) which is probably on of the most comprhensive books written on hepc ,incuding a very good section on herbs diet supplements and TCM ,thoroughly recommend it. kind regards from Rob . Chinese Traditional Medicine , shadjody@a... wrote: > HI Misha Cohen has written a book on Integrated TCM/Western Treatment of Hep. > C. Called the Hep C help Book. She also teaches LONG 3 day courses on hep C > treatment. I took it in Feb and it was one of the best CE classes I have ever > taken. She's doing another class in Sept. > Some of the things Misha goes into are understanding progression of Hep C, > reading lab tests and how that effects TCM TX. and how treatment differs > depending on the stage as well as herb drug interactions. (For instance Milk Thistle > is great for helping the liver regenerate, but can cause major complications > if taken with interferon.) > So get Misha's book or take her class and a lot of your questions will be > answered > Shad Reinstein L.AC, M.Ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2005 Report Share Posted May 19, 2005 thanks to Rob, and all who responded to my questions. Rabiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 ---i would try 12 Spiritual healing, Reiki, find a good healer - but someone you feel an attunement with at a soul level otherwise you can have negative results making your situation worse. We are know witnessing one of the great turnings in our century where old healing practices are re-emerging such as Reiki healing, Colour healing, Seichim, Spiritual healing, Osteopathy, Massage and many others. Some of these are thousands of years old, Spiritual healing is one of those. It is exactly the same kind of energy used by Jesus in so many of his healings. Put simply Spiritual Healing, Reiki is the transference of certain energies through a channel which could be a person or an animal or even the planet, the wavelengths of this healing energy are well outside the limits of most scientific equipment but a lot of people can feel this energy . The energy in my experience has been very uplifting and beautiful which can touch and vastly influence parts of us such as the spirit or soul or our mental selves and our physical selves. It can bring a steadiness and balance and sense of well-being second to none .Its limits as to its use are in the realms of the infinite. A very simplistic analogy would be to liken it to a massive energy reservoir which can be tapped into by people and animals which act as the conduits of this energy and like wires of electricity some of which are bigger than others and so therefore big wires can transmit more energy than smaller wires. Bearing this point in mind the reader can soon appreciate that going to one healer can be vastly different than going to another as it is with so many things whether it be dentists, doctors, policeman or what have you. Spiritual Healing is natural healing energy, which is present in this universe. Spiritual healers work in many different ways to some it is the laying on of hands onto a person or animal, to others it can be sent through the power of thought. To be even in the presence of some healers can have a profound and beneficial effect on people and one wishes that there were more In Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Rob " <emeerob> wrote: > Hi! Good to be here. > Does anyone have any good info on treating people with chronic > heapatitis c infection? > One of my clients has very feint and deep liver pulse,spleen is very > weak,kidney yin and yang is almost empty. > His appetite is good,so is his digestion,tongue is slightly covered in > a very pale white coating,red spots on the tip and slightly less red > spots on the sides. > He is very tired and experiences intermittent sharp stich like pains > arounf the area of the portal vein area in the liver. > Unlike typical jaundice or hep B he does not shoew any symptoms of > fire toxins in the blood or any other part of the body,he doesnt get > fevers or sweats.There are signs of liver and gallbladder stagnation. > This patient underwent interferon therapy last year for 6 months > ,cleared the virus while on the treatment,but relapsed 2 months after > treatment(last january,since then I have used herbs to get rid of the > fire toxins and heat in his blood(mainly due to the drugs which were > pretty toxic to say the least!) > His alt liver functions 2 months ago were at 160 which is moderately > high,this couls well indicate liver inflammation,and viral > activity,all his other blood counts were back to normal since the > treatment ,plateles normal,wbc normal ,thyroid ,diabetes etc all > within normal ranges. > As I mentioned before he has chronic fatigue and anxiety about doing > anything that requires too much energy(kidney yin and yang severly > depleted!)So he has little or no motivation to do much in terms of > work,creativity etc.So he rests most of the time and occasionally gets > a bit odf increased energy now and again,but these periods seem to be > lessening due to the deep seated nature of the condition,he contracted > hep c about 20 years ago,found out he had it in 1999.The genotype of > the virus is a 3a. > > > I have done a bit of research in Dr Zhangs herbal protocols,they seem > to get good results.All of his patients take a blood sttsis formula > I get a good feeling about approaching this treatment by using a blood > stasis formula, very similiar to this one: > Dang Gui Radix Angelicae Sinensis > Sheng Di Huang Radix Rehmanniae > Chuan Xiong Rhizoma Chuanxiong > Chi Shao Radix Paeoniae Rubra > Tao Ren Semen Persicae > Hong Hua Flos Carthami > Chai Hu Radix Bupleuri > Zhi Ke Fructus Aurantii Niu Xi Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae > Jie Geng Radix Platycodi > Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae > Dan Shen Radix Salviae Miltiorrhizae > Yuan Zhi Radix Polygalae > Yu Jin Tuber Curcumae > He Huan Pi Cortex Albizziae > > > From what I can see so far is that he uses a blood statsis formula > modified along the lines of xue fu zhu yu tang ,along with ligistrin > and artemesia formulas.I think the herbs used are highly concentrated > herb extracts probably 10:1 potency. > I also did some research into the health concerns formulas which DR > Misha Cohen uses called hepatoplex 2 > > THERAPEUTIC ACTIONS: > Chronic hepatitis infection with cirrhosis and > fibrosis, Improved micro circulation in the > capillaries. > CHINESE THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS: > Invigorate the Blood > Clear damp Heat > INGREDIENTS: > Capillaris (Yin Chen Hao), Carthamus (Hong > Hua), Tang-kuei root (Dang Gui), Red Peony > root (Chi Shao), Salvia root (Dan Shen), > Immature Citrus Peel (Qing Pi), Buddha Hand > fruit (Fo Shou), Persica seed (Tao Ren), > Ligusticum (Chuan Xiong), Licorice root (Gan > Cao). > I live in ireland ,close to the uk,and its very expensive to get > formulas from america,one of my herbal suppliers can supply formulas > but needs the correct ammounts to make them! > Dr Zhang and hepapro(the people that sell his formulas) and health > concerns wont give me the details /quantities of the formulas! > Any ideas. > > Thanks in advance from Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Thanks for your input;) Perhaps you could email me as my patient is in the uk some of the time look frwd to hearing from you kind regards from Rob Chinese Traditional Medicine , " pjb12345uk " <pho@n...> wrote: > ---i would try > > > > 12 Spiritual healing, Reiki, find a good healer - but someone you > feel an attunement with at a soul level otherwise you can have > negative results making your situation worse. We are know witnessing > one of the great turnings in our century where old healing practices > are re-emerging such as Reiki healing, Colour healing, Seichim, > Spiritual healing, Osteopathy, Massage and many others. > > Some of these are thousands of years old, Spiritual healing is one > of those. It is exactly the same kind of energy used by Jesus in so > many of his healings. > > Put simply Spiritual Healing, Reiki is the transference of certain > energies through a channel which could be a person or an animal or > even the planet, the wavelengths of this healing energy are well > outside the limits of most scientific equipment but a lot of people > can feel this energy . > > The energy in my experience has been very uplifting and beautiful > which can touch and vastly influence parts of us such as the spirit > or soul or our mental selves and our physical selves. It can bring a > steadiness and balance and sense of well-being second to none .Its > limits as to its use are in the realms of the infinite. > > A very simplistic analogy would be to liken it to a massive energy > reservoir which can be tapped into by people and animals which act > as the conduits of this energy and like wires of electricity some of > which are bigger than others and so therefore big wires can transmit > more energy than smaller wires. > > Bearing this point in mind the reader can soon appreciate that going > to one healer can be vastly different than going to another as it is > with so many things whether it be dentists, doctors, policeman or > what have you. > > Spiritual Healing is natural healing energy, which is present in > this universe. Spiritual healers work in many different ways to some > it is the laying on of hands onto a person or animal, to others it > can be sent through the power of thought. To be even in the presence > of some healers can have a profound and beneficial effect on people > and one wishes that there were more > In Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Rob " <emeerob> wrote: > > Hi! Good to be here. > > Does anyone have any good info on treating people with chronic > > heapatitis c infection? > > One of my clients has very feint and deep liver pulse,spleen is > very > > weak,kidney yin and yang is almost empty. > > His appetite is good,so is his digestion,tongue is slightly > covered in > > a very pale white coating,red spots on the tip and slightly less > red > > spots on the sides. > > He is very tired and experiences intermittent sharp stich like > pains > > arounf the area of the portal vein area in the liver. > > Unlike typical jaundice or hep B he does not shoew any symptoms of > > fire toxins in the blood or any other part of the body,he doesnt > get > > fevers or sweats.There are signs of liver and gallbladder > stagnation. > > This patient underwent interferon therapy last year for 6 months > > ,cleared the virus while on the treatment,but relapsed 2 months > after > > treatment(last january,since then I have used herbs to get rid of > the > > fire toxins and heat in his blood(mainly due to the drugs which > were > > pretty toxic to say the least!) > > His alt liver functions 2 months ago were at 160 which is > moderately > > high,this couls well indicate liver inflammation,and viral > > activity,all his other blood counts were back to normal since the > > treatment ,plateles normal,wbc normal ,thyroid ,diabetes etc all > > within normal ranges. > > As I mentioned before he has chronic fatigue and anxiety about > doing > > anything that requires too much energy(kidney yin and yang severly > > depleted!)So he has little or no motivation to do much in terms of > > work,creativity etc.So he rests most of the time and occasionally > gets > > a bit odf increased energy now and again,but these periods seem to > be > > lessening due to the deep seated nature of the condition,he > contracted > > hep c about 20 years ago,found out he had it in 1999.The genotype > of > > the virus is a 3a. > > > > > > I have done a bit of research in Dr Zhangs herbal protocols,they > seem > > to get good results.All of his patients take a blood sttsis formula > > I get a good feeling about approaching this treatment by using a > blood > > stasis formula, very similiar to this one: > > Dang Gui Radix Angelicae Sinensis > > Sheng Di Huang Radix Rehmanniae > > Chuan Xiong Rhizoma Chuanxiong > > Chi Shao Radix Paeoniae Rubra > > Tao Ren Semen Persicae > > Hong Hua Flos Carthami > > Chai Hu Radix Bupleuri > > Zhi Ke Fructus Aurantii Niu Xi Radix Achyranthis Bidentatae > > Jie Geng Radix Platycodi > > Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae > > Dan Shen Radix Salviae Miltiorrhizae > > Yuan Zhi Radix Polygalae > > Yu Jin Tuber Curcumae > > He Huan Pi Cortex Albizziae > > > > > > From what I can see so far is that he uses a blood statsis formula > > modified along the lines of xue fu zhu yu tang ,along with > ligistrin > > and artemesia formulas.I think the herbs used are highly > concentrated > > herb extracts probably 10:1 potency. > > I also did some research into the health concerns formulas which DR > > Misha Cohen uses called hepatoplex 2 > > > > THERAPEUTIC ACTIONS: > > Chronic hepatitis infection with cirrhosis and > > fibrosis, Improved micro circulation in the > > capillaries. > > CHINESE THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS: > > Invigorate the Blood > > Clear damp Heat > > INGREDIENTS: > > Capillaris (Yin Chen Hao), Carthamus (Hong > > Hua), Tang-kuei root (Dang Gui), Red Peony > > root (Chi Shao), Salvia root (Dan Shen), > > Immature Citrus Peel (Qing Pi), Buddha Hand > > fruit (Fo Shou), Persica seed (Tao Ren), > > Ligusticum (Chuan Xiong), Licorice root (Gan > > Cao). > > I live in ireland ,close to the uk,and its very expensive to get > > formulas from america,one of my herbal suppliers can supply > formulas > > but needs the correct ammounts to make them! > > Dr Zhang and hepapro(the people that sell his formulas) and health > > concerns wont give me the details /quantities of the formulas! > > Any ideas. > > > > Thanks in advance from Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Hi I would recommend looking at the book " Hep C Handbook " by Misha Cohen and others. She is based in San Francisco and teaches a 33 hr. Continuing Education Class on Hep C treatment as well as having co-written the book. The CE class was one of the best I have ever taken. It covers allopathic, naturopathic, nutrition, contraindications as well as TCM. Do you know what stage, what the blood work results are for your patient? Misha's work helped me understand how to use these W. tests and how the results of all of those things will help determine the TCM diagnosis. I am working right now with an 82 yo man with cirrhosis. He is not a candidate for transplant due to age and has the type of hep C that does not respond to peg. Interferon. (Which by the way has many possibly SERIOUS interactions with herbs.) I have put him on Western and Chinese herbs, supplements and acupuncture treatment and I am having good results. Shad Reinstein, L. AC., M. Ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Rob: Does Ireland have restrictions on importing herbs from China? I know the US does. You may want to order the herbs in bulk and cook them yourself. Formulas should always be tailored for the individual's specific condition. You could adjust the formulas for this patient. If it is cheaper or easier to import herbs from China, let me know. Maybe I can help you. Regards, Jack --- Rob <emeerob wrote: > Thanks for your input;) > Perhaps you could email me > as my patient is in the uk some of the time > look frwd to hearing from you > kind regards from Rob > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " pjb12345uk " > <pho@n...> wrote: > > ---i would try > > > > > > > > 12 Spiritual healing, Reiki, find a good healer - > but someone you > > feel an attunement with at a soul level otherwise > you can have > > negative results making your situation worse. We > are know witnessing > > one of the great turnings in our century where old > healing practices > > are re-emerging such as Reiki healing, Colour > healing, Seichim, > > Spiritual healing, Osteopathy, Massage and many > others. > > > > Some of these are thousands of years old, > Spiritual healing is one > > of those. It is exactly the same kind of energy > used by Jesus in so > > many of his healings. > > > > Put simply Spiritual Healing, Reiki is the > transference of certain > > energies through a channel which could be a person > or an animal or > > even the planet, the wavelengths of this healing > energy are well > > outside the limits of most scientific equipment > but a lot of people > > can feel this energy . > > > > The energy in my experience has been very > uplifting and beautiful > > which can touch and vastly influence parts of us > such as the spirit > > or soul or our mental selves and our physical > selves. It can bring a > > steadiness and balance and sense of well-being > second to none .Its > > limits as to its use are in the realms of the > infinite. > > > > A very simplistic analogy would be to liken it to > a massive energy > > reservoir which can be tapped into by people and > animals which act > > as the conduits of this energy and like wires of > electricity some of > > which are bigger than others and so therefore big > wires can transmit > > more energy than smaller wires. > > > > Bearing this point in mind the reader can soon > appreciate that going > > to one healer can be vastly different than going > to another as it is > > with so many things whether it be dentists, > doctors, policeman or > > what have you. > > > > Spiritual Healing is natural healing energy, which > is present in > > this universe. Spiritual healers work in many > different ways to some > > it is the laying on of hands onto a person or > animal, to others it > > can be sent through the power of thought. To be > even in the presence > > of some healers can have a profound and beneficial > effect on people > > and one wishes that there were more > > In Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Rob " > <emeerob> wrote: > > > Hi! Good to be here. > > > Does anyone have any good info on treating > people with chronic > > > heapatitis c infection? > > > One of my clients has very feint and deep liver > pulse,spleen is > > very > > > weak,kidney yin and yang is almost empty. > > > His appetite is good,so is his digestion,tongue > is slightly > > covered in > > > a very pale white coating,red spots on the tip > and slightly less > > red > > > spots on the sides. > > > He is very tired and experiences intermittent > sharp stich like > > pains > > > arounf the area of the portal vein area in the > liver. > > > Unlike typical jaundice or hep B he does not > shoew any symptoms of > > > fire toxins in the blood or any other part of > the body,he doesnt > > get > > > fevers or sweats.There are signs of liver and > gallbladder > > stagnation. > > > This patient underwent interferon therapy last > year for 6 months > > > ,cleared the virus while on the treatment,but > relapsed 2 months > > after > > > treatment(last january,since then I have used > herbs to get rid of > > the > > > fire toxins and heat in his blood(mainly due to > the drugs which > > were > > > pretty toxic to say the least!) > > > His alt liver functions 2 months ago were at 160 > which is > > moderately > > > high,this couls well indicate liver > inflammation,and viral > > > activity,all his other blood counts were back to > normal since the > > > treatment ,plateles normal,wbc normal ,thyroid > ,diabetes etc all > > > within normal ranges. > > > As I mentioned before he has chronic fatigue and > anxiety about > > doing > > > anything that requires too much energy(kidney > yin and yang severly > > > depleted!)So he has little or no motivation to > do much in terms of > > > work,creativity etc.So he rests most of the time > and occasionally > > gets > > > a bit odf increased energy now and again,but > these periods seem to > > be > > > lessening due to the deep seated nature of the > condition,he > > contracted > > > hep c about 20 years ago,found out he had it in > 1999.The genotype > > of > > > the virus is a 3a. > > > > > > > > > I have done a bit of research in Dr Zhangs > herbal protocols,they > > seem > > > to get good results.All of his patients take a > blood sttsis formula > > > I get a good feeling about approaching this > treatment by using a > > blood > > > stasis formula, very similiar to this one: > > > Dang Gui Radix Angelicae Sinensis > > > Sheng Di Huang Radix Rehmanniae > > > Chuan Xiong Rhizoma Chuanxiong > > > Chi Shao Radix Paeoniae Rubra > > > Tao Ren Semen Persicae > > > Hong Hua Flos Carthami > > > Chai Hu Radix Bupleuri > > > Zhi Ke Fructus Aurantii Niu Xi Radix > Achyranthis Bidentatae > > > Jie Geng Radix Platycodi > > > Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae > > > Dan Shen Radix Salviae Miltiorrhizae > > > Yuan Zhi Radix Polygalae > > > Yu Jin Tuber Curcumae > > > He Huan Pi Cortex Albizziae > > > > > > > > > From what I can see so far is that he uses a > blood statsis formula > > > modified along the lines of xue fu zhu yu tang > ,along with > > ligistrin > > > and artemesia formulas.I think the herbs used > are highly > > concentrated > > > herb extracts probably 10:1 potency. > > > I also did some research into the health > concerns formulas which DR > > > Misha Cohen uses called hepatoplex 2 > > > > > > THERAPEUTIC ACTIONS: > > > Chronic hepatitis infection with cirrhosis and > > > fibrosis, Improved micro circulation in the > > > capillaries. > > > CHINESE THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS: > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Thanks Jack, over the last few years there have been more restrictions,due to draconian european legislation! I get loose herbs from the uk at good prices.I used to get stuff from the USA,but had to pay unreasinable customs duty on it. I used to get cordyceps Cs4 powder from the USA froma guy called Jay Emmons at very good prices(12 dollars for 100 grams) currently my patient is on a salvia ligustrum formula which was suggested bt Subhuti Dharmananda(ITM).I ordered the herbs from my supplier in the uk only to find they had put dang shen instead of dan shen in it,so then they sent me another with dan shen in it,but they didnt have bai zhu in loose form and added powdered bai zhu,whixch in my own opinion doesnt work very well! My patient is certainly feeling alot better ,no more pains in the lower abdomen and increased energy. Kind regards fro Rob Chinese Traditional Medicine , Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy> wrote: > Rob: > > Does Ireland have restrictions on importing herbs from > China? I know the US does. > > You may want to order the herbs in bulk and cook them > yourself. Formulas should always be tailored for the > individual's specific condition. You could adjust the > formulas for this patient. > > If it is cheaper or easier to import herbs from China, > let me know. Maybe I can help you. > > Regards, Jack > > --- Rob <emeerob> wrote: > > > Thanks for your input;) > > Perhaps you could email me > > as my patient is in the uk some of the time > > look frwd to hearing from you > > kind regards from Rob > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " pjb12345uk " > > <pho@n...> wrote: > > > ---i would try > > > > > > > > > > > > 12 Spiritual healing, Reiki, find a good healer - > > but someone you > > > feel an attunement with at a soul level otherwise > > you can have > > > negative results making your situation worse. We > > are know witnessing > > > one of the great turnings in our century where old > > healing practices > > > are re-emerging such as Reiki healing, Colour > > healing, Seichim, > > > Spiritual healing, Osteopathy, Massage and many > > others. > > > > > > Some of these are thousands of years old, > > Spiritual healing is one > > > of those. It is exactly the same kind of energy > > used by Jesus in so > > > many of his healings. > > > > > > Put simply Spiritual Healing, Reiki is the > > transference of certain > > > energies through a channel which could be a person > > or an animal or > > > even the planet, the wavelengths of this healing > > energy are well > > > outside the limits of most scientific equipment > > but a lot of people > > > can feel this energy . > > > > > > The energy in my experience has been very > > uplifting and beautiful > > > which can touch and vastly influence parts of us > > such as the spirit > > > or soul or our mental selves and our physical > > selves. It can bring a > > > steadiness and balance and sense of well-being > > second to none .Its > > > limits as to its use are in the realms of the > > infinite. > > > > > > A very simplistic analogy would be to liken it to > > a massive energy > > > reservoir which can be tapped into by people and > > animals which act > > > as the conduits of this energy and like wires of > > electricity some of > > > which are bigger than others and so therefore big > > wires can transmit > > > more energy than smaller wires. > > > > > > Bearing this point in mind the reader can soon > > appreciate that going > > > to one healer can be vastly different than going > > to another as it is > > > with so many things whether it be dentists, > > doctors, policeman or > > > what have you. > > > > > > Spiritual Healing is natural healing energy, which > > is present in > > > this universe. Spiritual healers work in many > > different ways to some > > > it is the laying on of hands onto a person or > > animal, to others it > > > can be sent through the power of thought. To be > > even in the presence > > > of some healers can have a profound and beneficial > > effect on people > > > and one wishes that there were more > > > In Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Rob " > > <emeerob> wrote: > > > > Hi! Good to be here. > > > > Does anyone have any good info on treating > > people with chronic > > > > heapatitis c infection? > > > > One of my clients has very feint and deep liver > > pulse,spleen is > > > very > > > > weak,kidney yin and yang is almost empty. > > > > His appetite is good,so is his digestion,tongue > > is slightly > > > covered in > > > > a very pale white coating,red spots on the tip > > and slightly less > > > red > > > > spots on the sides. > > > > He is very tired and experiences intermittent > > sharp stich like > > > pains > > > > arounf the area of the portal vein area in the > > liver. > > > > Unlike typical jaundice or hep B he does not > > shoew any symptoms of > > > > fire toxins in the blood or any other part of > > the body,he doesnt > > > get > > > > fevers or sweats.There are signs of liver and > > gallbladder > > > stagnation. > > > > This patient underwent interferon therapy last > > year for 6 months > > > > ,cleared the virus while on the treatment,but > > relapsed 2 months > > > after > > > > treatment(last january,since then I have used > > herbs to get rid of > > > the > > > > fire toxins and heat in his blood(mainly due to > > the drugs which > > > were > > > > pretty toxic to say the least!) > > > > His alt liver functions 2 months ago were at 160 > > which is > > > moderately > > > > high,this couls well indicate liver > > inflammation,and viral > > > > activity,all his other blood counts were back to > > normal since the > > > > treatment ,plateles normal,wbc normal ,thyroid > > ,diabetes etc all > > > > within normal ranges. > > > > As I mentioned before he has chronic fatigue and > > anxiety about > > > doing > > > > anything that requires too much energy(kidney > > yin and yang severly > > > > depleted!)So he has little or no motivation to > > do much in terms of > > > > work,creativity etc.So he rests most of the time > > and occasionally > > > gets > > > > a bit odf increased energy now and again,but > > these periods seem to > > > be > > > > lessening due to the deep seated nature of the > > condition,he > > > contracted > > > > hep c about 20 years ago,found out he had it in > > 1999.The genotype > > > of > > > > the virus is a 3a. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have done a bit of research in Dr Zhangs > > herbal protocols,they > > > seem > > > > to get good results.All of his patients take a > > blood sttsis formula > > > > I get a good feeling about approaching this > > treatment by using a > > > blood > > > > stasis formula, very similiar to this one: > > > > Dang Gui Radix Angelicae Sinensis > > > > Sheng Di Huang Radix Rehmanniae > > > > Chuan Xiong Rhizoma Chuanxiong > > > > Chi Shao Radix Paeoniae Rubra > > > > Tao Ren Semen Persicae > > > > Hong Hua Flos Carthami > > > > Chai Hu Radix Bupleuri > > > > Zhi Ke Fructus Aurantii Niu Xi Radix > > Achyranthis Bidentatae > > > > Jie Geng Radix Platycodi > > > > Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae > > > > Dan Shen Radix Salviae Miltiorrhizae > > > > Yuan Zhi Radix Polygalae > > > > Yu Jin Tuber Curcumae > > > > He Huan Pi Cortex Albizziae > > > > > > > > > > > > From what I can see so far is that he uses a > > blood statsis formula > > > > modified along the lines of xue fu zhu yu tang > > ,along with > > > ligistrin > > > > and artemesia formulas.I think the herbs used > > are highly > > > concentrated > > > > herb extracts probably 10:1 potency. > > > > I also did some research into the health > > concerns formulas which DR > > > > Misha Cohen uses called hepatoplex 2 > > > > > > > > THERAPEUTIC ACTIONS: > > > > Chronic hepatitis infection with cirrhosis and > > > > fibrosis, Improved micro circulation in the > > > > capillaries. > > > > CHINESE THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS: > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Thanks Shad, yes Misha Cohens book was mentioned in an earlier post. Matt Dolans hep c handbook is a gem as well.Also ITM s start group has alot of good resources for hep c in relation to TCM. I have worked with Jon Tindall and he does liver wellness courses for people working with hep c. yes I know the relevance of blood tests ,alts,asts etc in relation to treating. So glad you are getting good results with your client. Oxymatrine tablets available from ITM are a very good anti viral for hep c,they are made from an extract of ku shen (sophora). Thanks for your suggestions and unput from Rob Chinese Traditional Medicine , shadjody@a... wrote: > Hi > I would recommend looking at the book " Hep C Handbook " by Misha Cohen and > others. She is based in San Francisco and teaches a 33 hr. Continuing Education > Class on Hep C treatment as well as having co-written the book. The CE class > was one of the best I have ever taken. It covers allopathic, naturopathic, > nutrition, contraindications as well as TCM. > Do you know what stage, what the blood work results are for your patient? > Misha's work helped me understand how to use these W. tests and how the results > of all of those things will help determine the TCM diagnosis. > I am working right now with an 82 yo man with cirrhosis. He is not a > candidate for transplant due to age and has the type of hep C that does not respond > to peg. Interferon. (Which by the way has many possibly SERIOUS interactions > with herbs.) I have put him on Western and Chinese herbs, supplements and > acupuncture treatment and I am having good results. > Shad Reinstein, L. AC., M. Ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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