Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. The vet said it was indicative of heart problems. I was wondering what the Chinese Medicine take on this would be. Seems like I read about it somewhere... Thank you, Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 several 5 element Designs: a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other should find out the temperament of the cat, is there a reason to be annoyed holmes www.acu-free.com 1.888.TCM.CEUS 826.2387 Michelle Clark wrote: >A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. The vet said it was indicative of heart problems. I was wondering what the Chinese Medicine take on this would be. Seems like I read about it somewhere... >Thank you, >Michelle > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 it would be interesting to know of the cat's temperament and what caused it? update? holmes drholmes wrote: >several 5 element Designs: > >a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi >b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood >c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other > >should find out the temperament of the cat, is there a reason to be annoyed > >holmes >www.acu-free.com >1.888.TCM.CEUS 826.2387 > > > >Michelle Clark wrote: > > > >>A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. The vet said it was indicative of heart problems. I was wondering what the Chinese Medicine take on this would be. Seems like I read about it somewhere... >>Thank you, >>Michelle >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I haven't heard an update yet. Would you be able to put this into a more beginner style paragraph? I tried, but I am a neophyte. Thank you, Michelle - drholmes Chinese Traditional Medicine Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:09 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] weak after blood draw it would be interesting to know of the cat's temperament and what caused it? update? holmes drholmes wrote: >several 5 element Designs: > >a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi >b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood >c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other > >should find out the temperament of the cat, is there a reason to be annoyed > >holmes >www.acu-free.com >1.888.TCM.CEUS 826.2387 > > > >Michelle Clark wrote: > > > >>A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. The vet said it was indicative of heart problems. I was wondering what the Chinese Medicine take on this would be. Seems like I read about it somewhere... >>Thank you, >>Michelle >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 sure in fact i would like to give a Grand Round where everyone participates this is something we do on a regular basis here and other stations where i visit Grand Round on a Cat who Collapsed > A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. > collapsed - there's blood dynamics involved 5 E nature of blood: K makes it Wood moves it HT contains it in vessels SP holds vessels in place, and blood in vessels LU infuses it with air qi now the cat - K cannot cause collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume LV can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume HT can cause collapse, has something to do with blood volume SP can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume LU cannot cause collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume to refine so far: LV can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume HT can cause collapse, has something to do with blood volume SP can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume so we have a short list, in terms of collapse, of LV HT SP > got very weak after a blood draw > 5 E on reason for post withdrawal weakness PWW: K cannot cause PWW, has nothing to do with blood volume LV can cause PWW, has everything to do with blood volume HT can cause PWW, has something to do with blood volume SP can cause PWW, has everything to do with blood volume LU cannot PWW collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume to refine again: LV can cause PWW HT can cause PWW SP can cause PWW so again we have a short list, in terms of PWW, of LV HT SP my earlier comments: a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other here i am thinking of sudden drop in volume as due to LV and as LV is mother element to Fire or HT, one seems to have caused the other. however, this needs further thinking because though 5 E can give you the healing to any chronic illness, it can as easily lead you astray if you have not done the work well the question revolves on not only blood volume, but also on the mechanism which has caused a shortfall, and which is still persisting we have to shortlist further from LV HT SP what is the relationship between the 3? LV is mother to HT is mother to SP what is the enmity between the 3? LV is mother to HT but enemy to SP therefore the most likely scenario based on whatever information we have is: the primary element is in LV the secondary element is in SP the tertiary element is in HT now as all illnesses are caused mainly by emotions gone wrong over a period of time, let us place emotions according to our elemental findings the primary emotion is anger and rage in LV the secondary emotion is obsessing in SP the tertiary primary emotion is bereavement and sadness in HT what can do that to a cat? a dozen behaviorals in the owner how to treat? we can refine this once we have more data holmes www.acu-free.com Michelle Clark wrote: >I haven't heard an update yet. Would you be able to put this into a more beginner style paragraph? I tried, but I am a neophyte. >Thank you, >Michelle > - > drholmes > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:09 AM > Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] weak after blood draw > > > it would be interesting to know of the cat's temperament and what caused it? > update? > holmes > > drholmes wrote: > > >several 5 element Designs: > > > >a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi > >b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood > >c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other > > > >should find out the temperament of the cat, is there a reason to be annoyed > > > >holmes > >www.acu-free.com > >1.888.TCM.CEUS 826.2387 > > > > > > > >Michelle Clark wrote: > > > > > > > >>A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. The vet said it was indicative of heart problems. I was wondering what the Chinese Medicine take on this would be. Seems like I read about it somewhere... > >>Thank you, > >>Michelle > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 any news on Cat? with this kind of temper and emotional baggage, she out to be heard from :-) drholmes wrote: >sure > >in fact i would like to give a Grand Round where everyone participates >this is something we do on a regular basis here and other stations where >i visit > >Grand Round on a Cat who Collapsed > > > >A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. > > > >collapsed - there's blood dynamics involved > >5 E nature of blood: >K makes it >Wood moves it >HT contains it in vessels >SP holds vessels in place, and blood in vessels >LU infuses it with air qi > >now the cat - >K cannot cause collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume >LV can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume >HT can cause collapse, has something to do with blood volume >SP can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume >LU cannot cause collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume > >to refine so far: >LV can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume >HT can cause collapse, has something to do with blood volume >SP can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume > >so we have a short list, in terms of collapse, of LV HT SP > > > >got very weak after a blood draw > > > >5 E on reason for post withdrawal weakness PWW: >K cannot cause PWW, has nothing to do with blood volume >LV can cause PWW, has everything to do with blood volume >HT can cause PWW, has something to do with blood volume >SP can cause PWW, has everything to do with blood volume >LU cannot PWW collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume > >to refine again: >LV can cause PWW >HT can cause PWW >SP can cause PWW > >so again we have a short list, in terms of PWW, of LV HT SP > >my earlier comments: >a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi >b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood >c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other > >here i am thinking of sudden drop in volume as due to LV and as >LV is mother element to Fire or HT, one seems to have caused the other. > >however, this needs further thinking because though 5 E can give you >the healing to any chronic illness, it can as easily lead you astray >if you have not done the work well > >the question revolves on not only blood volume, but also on the mechanism >which has caused a shortfall, and which is still persisting > >we have to shortlist further from LV HT SP > >what is the relationship between the 3? > >LV is mother to HT is mother to SP > >what is the enmity between the 3? > >LV is mother to HT but enemy to SP > >therefore the most likely scenario based on whatever information we have is: > >the primary element is in LV >the secondary element is in SP >the tertiary element is in HT > >now as all illnesses are caused mainly by emotions gone wrong over a >period of time, let >us place emotions according to our elemental findings > >the primary emotion is anger and rage in LV >the secondary emotion is obsessing in SP >the tertiary primary emotion is bereavement and sadness in HT > >what can do that to a cat? > >a dozen behaviorals in the owner > >how to treat? > >we can refine this once we have more data > >holmes >www.acu-free.com > > >Michelle Clark wrote: > > > >>I haven't heard an update yet. Would you be able to put this into a more beginner style paragraph? I tried, but I am a neophyte. >>Thank you, >>Michelle >> - >> drholmes >> Chinese Traditional Medicine >> Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:09 AM >> Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] weak after blood draw >> >> >> it would be interesting to know of the cat's temperament and what caused it? >> update? >> holmes >> >> drholmes wrote: >> >> >several 5 element Designs: >> > >> >a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi >> >b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood >> >c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other >> > >> >should find out the temperament of the cat, is there a reason to be annoyed >> > >> >holmes >> >www.acu-free.com >> >1.888.TCM.CEUS 826.2387 >> > >> > >> > >> >Michelle Clark wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >>A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. The vet said it was indicative of heart problems. I was wondering what the Chinese Medicine take on this would be. Seems like I read about it somewhere... >> >>Thank you, >> >>Michelle >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 no word. - drholmes Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:43 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] weak after blood draw any news on Cat? with this kind of temper and emotional baggage, she out to be heard from :-) drholmes wrote: >sure > >in fact i would like to give a Grand Round where everyone participates >this is something we do on a regular basis here and other stations where >i visit > >Grand Round on a Cat who Collapsed > > > >A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. > > > >collapsed - there's blood dynamics involved > >5 E nature of blood: >K makes it >Wood moves it >HT contains it in vessels >SP holds vessels in place, and blood in vessels >LU infuses it with air qi > >now the cat - >K cannot cause collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume >LV can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume >HT can cause collapse, has something to do with blood volume >SP can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume >LU cannot cause collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume > >to refine so far: >LV can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume >HT can cause collapse, has something to do with blood volume >SP can cause collapse, has everything to do with blood volume > >so we have a short list, in terms of collapse, of LV HT SP > > > >got very weak after a blood draw > > > >5 E on reason for post withdrawal weakness PWW: >K cannot cause PWW, has nothing to do with blood volume >LV can cause PWW, has everything to do with blood volume >HT can cause PWW, has something to do with blood volume >SP can cause PWW, has everything to do with blood volume >LU cannot PWW collapse, has nothing to do with blood volume > >to refine again: >LV can cause PWW >HT can cause PWW >SP can cause PWW > >so again we have a short list, in terms of PWW, of LV HT SP > >my earlier comments: >a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi >b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood >c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other > >here i am thinking of sudden drop in volume as due to LV and as >LV is mother element to Fire or HT, one seems to have caused the other. > >however, this needs further thinking because though 5 E can give you >the healing to any chronic illness, it can as easily lead you astray >if you have not done the work well > >the question revolves on not only blood volume, but also on the mechanism >which has caused a shortfall, and which is still persisting > >we have to shortlist further from LV HT SP > >what is the relationship between the 3? > >LV is mother to HT is mother to SP > >what is the enmity between the 3? > >LV is mother to HT but enemy to SP > >therefore the most likely scenario based on whatever information we have is: > >the primary element is in LV >the secondary element is in SP >the tertiary element is in HT > >now as all illnesses are caused mainly by emotions gone wrong over a >period of time, let >us place emotions according to our elemental findings > >the primary emotion is anger and rage in LV >the secondary emotion is obsessing in SP >the tertiary primary emotion is bereavement and sadness in HT > >what can do that to a cat? > >a dozen behaviorals in the owner > >how to treat? > >we can refine this once we have more data > >holmes >www.acu-free.com > > >Michelle Clark wrote: > > > >>I haven't heard an update yet. Would you be able to put this into a more beginner style paragraph? I tried, but I am a neophyte. >>Thank you, >>Michelle >> - >> drholmes >> Chinese Traditional Medicine >> Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:09 AM >> Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] weak after blood draw >> >> >> it would be interesting to know of the cat's temperament and what caused it? >> update? >> holmes >> >> drholmes wrote: >> >> >several 5 element Designs: >> > >> >a. the cat is depleted in Blood and Heart qi >> >b. he cat is angry and has Liver stagnation and lack of Liver Blood >> >c. the cat has b. and a. because one is the Mother to the other >> > >> >should find out the temperament of the cat, is there a reason to be annoyed >> > >> >holmes >> >www.acu-free.com >> >1.888.TCM.CEUS 826.2387 >> > >> > >> > >> >Michelle Clark wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >>A friend has a cat who collapsed and got very weak after a blood draw. The vet said it was indicative of heart problems. I was wondering what the take on this would be. Seems like I read about it somewhere... >> >>Thank you, >> >>Michelle >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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