Guest guest Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 months in total. I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen difficiency and dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months from each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from my stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot easily and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back pain too. I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. Thing i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting that i could have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further tests? I would appreciate any advice, thx. (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is red all over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is red all > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) I would like for the TCM professionals and students on the list to discuss these signs. Also keep in mind: > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen difficiency and > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months from > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from my > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot easily > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back pain too. > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. sam_ng2, do you have any other info about your pulse diagnosis other than that it is weak? Also why do you suspect you may have hyperthyroidism? Professionals and students: The tongue coating is white and the complexion is pale, but the tongue tissue is red. What does that suggest? sam-ng2, is your complexion uniformly pale or are their red blotches in the face? Sort of a mottled red and pale. Or is there some red on the face that looks like rouge applied over a pale complexion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Hi, A thick whitish tongue coat is definitely not damp heat...white indicates cold. If your tongue body is red, what kind of red is it? Is it a bright fresh red or a more dark maroon red, or is it purplish red? These all make a difference. You could have a heat-cold complex, which is clinically more common than one would think. For example, it's easy to have an underlying heat from yin deficiency, and still have damp cold blocking your digestive system. My messages so far have not shown up in the postings, I hope this one will finally go through? Who is the moderator I can talk to about this? Mei Chinese Traditional Medicine , " victoria_dragon " <victoria_dragon> wrote: > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is red > all > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > I would like for the TCM professionals and students on the list to > discuss these signs. > > Also keep in mind: > > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen difficiency and > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months from > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from my > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot easily > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back pain too. > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. > > sam_ng2, do you have any other info about your pulse diagnosis other > than that it is weak? Also why do you suspect you may have > hyperthyroidism? > > Professionals and students: The tongue coating is white and the > complexion is pale, but the tongue tissue is red. What does that > suggest? > > sam-ng2, is your complexion uniformly pale or are their red blotches > in the face? Sort of a mottled red and pale. Or is there some red > on the face that looks like rouge applied over a pale complexion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 > My messages so far have not shown up in the postings, I hope this one > will finally go through? Who is the moderator I can talk to about this? They are on the home webpage. I don't get email from the group but log onto the main page to read messages. I had assumed that posters got copies of all messages, including the ones they posted. Is anyone else not receiving copies of their posts? Sometimes - for reasons I don't understand - messages will start bouncing from an individual's email account. I'll try to see if this happened in your case. In the meanwhile, you might want to log onto the home page and then click on the message section to check if there are other messages you haven't received. Please let me know if there are. The address for the homepage should be at the end of this message. Thanks, Victoria Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 With spleen deficiency and damp heat more chances are that one may have hypothyroid than hyperthyroid. --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2 wrote: > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 > months in total. > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen > difficiency and > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a > few months from > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much > apart from my > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still > get hot easily > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower > back pain too. > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came > back fine. Thing > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am > suspecting that i could > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further > tests? > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue > which is red all > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Either they are poorly skilled, or maybe what you are eating and drinking is not well. Peace. Ai Wei --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2 wrote: > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 > months in total. > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen > difficiency and > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a > few months from > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much > apart from my > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still > get hot easily > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower > back pain too. > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came > back fine. Thing > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am > suspecting that i could > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further > tests? > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue > which is red all > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail./mail_250 Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 I've asked the students and professionals on this list to comment on these particular symptoms: > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue > > which is red all > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) Also keeping in mind: > > apart from my > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still > > get hot easily > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower > > back pain too. And that the person also suspects an overactive thyroid gland though tests are normal. I hope you will comment. When people first start to learn TCM, it's often learned as the general basics at first. For example, the white tongue coating and pale complexion can be signs of a Cold condition, but a red tongue tissue color often means Heat. What are the possible imbalances that can produce this particular combination of signs. Additional questions can be asked of the poster. Reading comments on this will be very helpful to the TCM students on the list. Chinese Traditional Medicine , Aiwei Lin <daoist_linaiwei> wrote: > > > > Either they are poorly skilled, or maybe what you are eating and drinking is not well. > > Peace. > Ai Wei > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> wrote: > > > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 > > months in total. > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen > > difficiency and > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a > > few months from > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much > > apart from my > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still > > get hot easily > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower > > back pain too. > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came > > back fine. Thing > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am > > suspecting that i could > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further > > tests? > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue > > which is red all > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > http://info.mail./mail_250 > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 There will be so many different opinions on the pulse and tongue, because is an art form, not only a Science. For something more on point, meeting the person and diagnosing them in person is the greatest method. One can only go off hand on these things... and or use intuition from this point. I know many comments would help others understand it, but if we are in person, then a diagnosis would be best. I wouldn't comment on his health only because he is not in my presence. Just find a skilled doctor of , and take your herbs, do not drink cold drinks, do not eat fried foods, oily foods, etc. I know it is hard to find a good doctor, and I do not mean it in any form of shrugging you off. I am very stern when it comes to . Please forgive my directness. I wish you the best in finding help. I wish my wife and I could help you. Peace, Ai Wei victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: I've asked the students and professionals on this list to comment on these particular symptoms: > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue > > which is red all > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) Also keeping in mind: > > apart from my > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still > > get hot easily > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower > > back pain too. And that the person also suspects an overactive thyroid gland though tests are normal. I hope you will comment. When people first start to learn TCM, it's often learned as the general basics at first. For example, the white tongue coating and pale complexion can be signs of a Cold condition, but a red tongue tissue color often means Heat. What are the possible imbalances that can produce this particular combination of signs. Additional questions can be asked of the poster. Reading comments on this will be very helpful to the TCM students on the list. LAU WAI WING CHUN TONG Shandong - China The all-new My – Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 > I am very stern when it comes to . Please forgive my directness. I am very stern when it comes to too. Also when it comes to teaching and to this message group. > There will be so many different opinions on the pulse and tongue, because is an art form, not only a Science. This is a general truth. > Just find a skilled doctor of , and take your herbs, do not drink cold drinks, do not eat fried foods, oily foods, etc. This is very general information that any first year TCM student would know. So would someone who had read a basic TCM book. > I know many comments would help others understand it, but if we are in person, then a diagnosis would be best. I wouldn't comment on his health only because he is not in my presence. You weren't asked to diagnose him or comment on his health, just to share information about the possible imbalances that can account for this combination of signs. People who post about personal health problems on this list are always cautioned that a diagnosis needs to be made in person and that the information provided on here is just possibilities for them and their healers to think about and to research further. I don't think you are going to be very happy on this list so I am banning you. You need to find a list which is " purist " or where you can blow smoke to your heart's desire. Victoria Dragon Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hi, the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the spleen def. can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it vivid red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling too. Is the tongue coating peeled or intact? hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin def.with empty heat, liver yin def, also. Marcos --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2 escreveu: > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 months in > total. > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen difficiency > and > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months > from > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from my > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot > easily > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back pain > too. > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. > Thing > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting that i > could > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further tests? > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is > red all > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Messenger http://br.download./messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Thankyou all for your contributions. I deeply appreciate it. I was away from the computer for a couple of days so i only managed to read the replies today. I kept my original message short but i can expand on my condition. I have had the problem of fatigue and feeling hot for at least 7 years now. I seem to get overheated if i go into a warm environoment, perform moderate activity or sit down for a hot meal. Its usually accompanied by sweating on the face and scalp and flushing too. It usually passes within a minute but it makes me feel dizzy and unable to focus. My skin is oily and i have a lot of dreams when i sleep. I get very anxious when i feel hot and the anxiety usually makes it worse. Regarding the condition of my tongue, the tip of my tongue is covered in small red spots. The middle and back of my tongue have much larger red spots, like small bumps. The tongue coating is uniform (not cracked) and tends to vary in thickness, usually the thickist when i wake up in the morning. I'm not sure about whether i have hyperthyroidism. I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with me. I seem to have some of the symptoms such as back pain, chronic fatigue, aversion to heat. Anything remotely stimulating seems to make me feel hot whether it is food, physical activity or emotion. (I have to cut back on a lot of swimmming, sprinting and football because it takes me a long time to recover physically). I think my pulse is weak and hard to feel. I recall that the rate of the pulse is slightly fast but the doctor felt it was acceptable for someone of my age (I'm male and 22). I hope that wasn't too much to read Thankyou all Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18> wrote: > > Hi, > the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the spleen def. > can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic > fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it vivid > red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling too. Is > the tongue coating peeled or intact? > > hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin def.with > empty heat, liver yin def, also. > > Marcos > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> escreveu: > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 months in > > total. > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen difficiency > > and > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months > > from > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from my > > > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot > > easily > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back pain > > too. > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. > > Thing > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting that i > > could > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further tests? > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is > > red all > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Messenger > http://br.download./messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hi Sam! How is your bowel movement? Is it once a day? Is your appetite ok? Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, emotional)? Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty much the same intensity throughout the day? From what you've said so far, it sounds like you may have Heart and Kidney Yin deficiency with empty heat rising, along with dampness, the source of which is still unclear to me. I say there is heart involvement because you feel anxiety, and that usually points to the heart. A weak pulse is also indicative of the heart's pumping function being weak. Also, restless sleep can also be a result of the heart spirit not being anchored. Herbs would be very beneficial to your condition. My teacher with whom I apprentice, he treats people with herbs alone, and they only get better each week. That is not to say that other forms of treatment cannot do just as well... Good luck. Mei Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> wrote: > > > Thankyou all for your contributions. I deeply appreciate it. I was > away from the computer for a couple of days so i only managed to > read the replies today. > > I kept my original message short but i can expand on my condition. > > I have had the problem of fatigue and feeling hot for at least 7 > years now. I seem to get overheated if i go into a warm > environoment, perform moderate activity or sit down for a hot meal. > Its usually accompanied by sweating on the face and scalp and > flushing too. It usually passes within a minute but it makes me feel > dizzy and unable to focus. My skin is oily and i have a lot of > dreams when i sleep. > > I get very anxious when i feel hot and the anxiety usually makes it > worse. > > Regarding the condition of my tongue, the tip of my tongue is > covered in small red spots. The middle and back of my tongue have > much larger red spots, like small bumps. The tongue coating is > uniform (not cracked) and tends to vary in thickness, usually the > thickist when i wake up in the morning. > > I'm not sure about whether i have hyperthyroidism. I am still trying > to figure out what is wrong with me. I seem to have some of the > symptoms such as back pain, chronic fatigue, aversion to heat. > Anything remotely stimulating seems to make me feel hot whether it > is food, physical activity or emotion. (I have to cut back on a lot > of swimmming, sprinting and football because it takes me a long time > to recover physically). > > I think my pulse is weak and hard to feel. I recall that the rate of > the pulse is slightly fast but the doctor felt it was acceptable for > someone of my age (I'm male and 22). > > I hope that wasn't too much to read Thankyou all > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the spleen def. > > can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic > > fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it vivid > > red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling too. Is > > the tongue coating peeled or intact? > > > > hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin def.with > > empty heat, liver yin def, also. > > > > Marcos > > > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> escreveu: > > > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 months in > > > total. > > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen difficiency > > > and > > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months > > > from > > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from my > > > > > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot > > > easily > > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back pain > > > too. > > > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. > > > Thing > > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting that i > > > could > > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further tests? > > > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is > > > red all > > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > > > > > Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Messenger > > http://br.download./messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Thx for your diagnosis Mei. I've tried to answer your questions below: 1.How is your bowel movement? Two to three times a day. Usually pretty soon after a medium sized meal. My stool used to be very loose but is much better since i started the herbs. 2.Is your appetite ok? My appetite is fine although i tend to get hungry very soon after i've eaten. I also have a sweet toothe but i can control myself with regards to sweet food. 3.Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? My chinese doctor did point this out. I think i have still a little but maybe not as prominent as before. 4.Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, emotional)? Yes, i feel very hot and feel like the heat is rising to my face and off the top of my head. My face usually feels very hot and goes red. Trying to hold down the sensation of the heat rising is something i find quite myself doing on a daily basis. Its quite stressful. 5.Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty much the same intensity throughout the day? Its worst in the evenings, especially after dinner. In the morning i feel better especially before i've eaten anything or done much physical activity. ------------------------------- I think i've been told by a couple of doctors that the dampness is a result of my spleen being too weak. I'm in Hong Kong at the moment so theres no shortage of TCM practitioners here. I don't seem to have improved at all after seeing a reputable TCM doctor for 3 weeks. Let me know if you have any more questions. Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > Hi Sam! > > How is your bowel movement? Is it once a day? Is your appetite ok? > > Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, emotional)? > Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty much > the same intensity throughout the day? > > From what you've said so far, it sounds like you may have Heart and > Kidney Yin deficiency with empty heat rising, along with dampness, > the source of which is still unclear to me. > > I say there is heart involvement because you feel anxiety, and that > usually points to the heart. > A weak pulse is also indicative of the heart's pumping function being > weak. Also, restless sleep can also be a result of the heart spirit > not being anchored. > > Herbs would be very beneficial to your condition. My teacher with > whom I apprentice, he treats people with herbs alone, and they only > get better each week. > That is not to say that other forms of treatment cannot do just as > well... > > Good luck. > > Mei > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> wrote: > > > > > > Thankyou all for your contributions. I deeply appreciate it. I was > > away from the computer for a couple of days so i only managed to > > read the replies today. > > > > I kept my original message short but i can expand on my condition. > > > > I have had the problem of fatigue and feeling hot for at least 7 > > years now. I seem to get overheated if i go into a warm > > environoment, perform moderate activity or sit down for a hot meal. > > Its usually accompanied by sweating on the face and scalp and > > flushing too. It usually passes within a minute but it makes me > feel > > dizzy and unable to focus. My skin is oily and i have a lot of > > dreams when i sleep. > > > > I get very anxious when i feel hot and the anxiety usually makes it > > worse. > > > > Regarding the condition of my tongue, the tip of my tongue is > > covered in small red spots. The middle and back of my tongue have > > much larger red spots, like small bumps. The tongue coating is > > uniform (not cracked) and tends to vary in thickness, usually the > > thickist when i wake up in the morning. > > > > I'm not sure about whether i have hyperthyroidism. I am still > trying > > to figure out what is wrong with me. I seem to have some of the > > symptoms such as back pain, chronic fatigue, aversion to heat. > > Anything remotely stimulating seems to make me feel hot whether it > > is food, physical activity or emotion. (I have to cut back on a lot > > of swimmming, sprinting and football because it takes me a long > time > > to recover physically). > > > > I think my pulse is weak and hard to feel. I recall that the rate > of > > the pulse is slightly fast but the doctor felt it was acceptable > for > > someone of my age (I'm male and 22). > > > > I hope that wasn't too much to read Thankyou all > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the spleen def. > > > can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic > > > fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it vivid > > > red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling too. Is > > > the tongue coating peeled or intact? > > > > > > hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin def.with > > > empty heat, liver yin def, also. > > > > > > Marcos > > > > > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> escreveu: > > > > > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 months in > > > > total. > > > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen difficiency > > > > and > > > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months > > > > from > > > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from my > > > > > > > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot > > > > easily > > > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back pain > > > > too. > > > > > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. > > > > Thing > > > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting that i > > > > could > > > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further tests? > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is > > > > red all > > > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Messenger > > > http://br.download./messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Hi Sam, The fact that you get hungry soon after you've eaten may point to Stomach Yin deficiency as well. It is not uncommon to have kidney yin deficiency affecting the yin of the whole body and vice versa. The teeth imprints along with having had loose stool does point to spleen deficiency dampness. The fact that your heat sensations are worse in the evening further emphasizes yin deficiency heat because yin should be anchoring yang at this time of day. Since night is the yin part of the day, any problems regarding yin will be more pronounced during the evening. Does your heart sometimes beat faster and more vigorously than normal? If your problem is one that is complex or chronic, sometimes it will take a little longer to feel improvement with treatment. As the case is with yin deficiency, it does tend to be a chronic situation. However, within the 3 weeks, have you had any changes in your health besides stool being firmer? May I also inquire about how the doctor is treating you? Acupunture? Herbs? Mei Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> wrote: > > > Thx for your diagnosis Mei. I've tried to answer your questions > below: > > 1.How is your bowel movement? > > Two to three times a day. Usually pretty soon after a medium sized > meal. My stool used to be very loose but is much better since i > started the herbs. > > 2.Is your appetite ok? > > My appetite is fine although i tend to get hungry very soon after > i've eaten. I also have a sweet toothe but i can control myself with > regards to sweet food. > > 3.Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > > My chinese doctor did point this out. I think i have still a > little but maybe not as prominent as before. > > 4.Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, > emotional)? > > Yes, i feel very hot and feel like the heat is rising to my face > and off the top of my head. My face usually feels very hot and goes > red. Trying to hold down the sensation of the heat rising is > something i find quite myself doing on a daily basis. Its quite > stressful. > > 5.Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty much > the same intensity throughout the day? > > Its worst in the evenings, especially after dinner. In the morning > i feel better especially before i've eaten anything or done much > physical activity. > > ------------------------------- > I think i've been told by a couple of doctors that the dampness is a > result of my spleen being too weak. > > I'm in Hong Kong at the moment so theres no shortage of TCM > practitioners here. I don't seem to have improved at all after > seeing a reputable TCM doctor for 3 weeks. Let me know if you have > any more questions. > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " > <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Sam! > > > > How is your bowel movement? Is it once a day? Is your appetite > ok? > > > > Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > > Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, > emotional)? > > Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty much > > the same intensity throughout the day? > > > > From what you've said so far, it sounds like you may have Heart > and > > Kidney Yin deficiency with empty heat rising, along with dampness, > > the source of which is still unclear to me. > > > > I say there is heart involvement because you feel anxiety, and > that > > usually points to the heart. > > A weak pulse is also indicative of the heart's pumping function > being > > weak. Also, restless sleep can also be a result of the heart > spirit > > not being anchored. > > > > Herbs would be very beneficial to your condition. My teacher with > > whom I apprentice, he treats people with herbs alone, and they > only > > get better each week. > > That is not to say that other forms of treatment cannot do just as > > well... > > > > Good luck. > > > > Mei > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thankyou all for your contributions. I deeply appreciate it. I > was > > > away from the computer for a couple of days so i only managed to > > > read the replies today. > > > > > > I kept my original message short but i can expand on my > condition. > > > > > > I have had the problem of fatigue and feeling hot for at least > 7 > > > years now. I seem to get overheated if i go into a warm > > > environoment, perform moderate activity or sit down for a hot > meal. > > > Its usually accompanied by sweating on the face and scalp and > > > flushing too. It usually passes within a minute but it makes me > > feel > > > dizzy and unable to focus. My skin is oily and i have a lot of > > > dreams when i sleep. > > > > > > I get very anxious when i feel hot and the anxiety usually makes > it > > > worse. > > > > > > Regarding the condition of my tongue, the tip of my tongue is > > > covered in small red spots. The middle and back of my tongue > have > > > much larger red spots, like small bumps. The tongue coating is > > > uniform (not cracked) and tends to vary in thickness, usually > the > > > thickist when i wake up in the morning. > > > > > > I'm not sure about whether i have hyperthyroidism. I am still > > trying > > > to figure out what is wrong with me. I seem to have some of the > > > symptoms such as back pain, chronic fatigue, aversion to heat. > > > Anything remotely stimulating seems to make me feel hot whether > it > > > is food, physical activity or emotion. (I have to cut back on a > lot > > > of swimmming, sprinting and football because it takes me a long > > time > > > to recover physically). > > > > > > I think my pulse is weak and hard to feel. I recall that the > rate > > of > > > the pulse is slightly fast but the doctor felt it was acceptable > > for > > > someone of my age (I'm male and 22). > > > > > > I hope that wasn't too much to read Thankyou all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the spleen > def. > > > > can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic > > > > fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it vivid > > > > red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling too. Is > > > > the tongue coating peeled or intact? > > > > > > > > hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin def.with > > > > empty heat, liver yin def, also. > > > > > > > > Marcos > > > > > > > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> escreveu: > > > > > > > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 months > in > > > > > total. > > > > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen > difficiency > > > > > and > > > > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months > > > > > from > > > > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from > my > > > > > > > > > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot > > > > > easily > > > > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back > pain > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. > > > > > Thing > > > > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting that > i > > > > > could > > > > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further tests? > > > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > > > > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is > > > > > red all > > > > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Messenger > > > > http://br.download./messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Hi, Lin mentined that diagnosis and treatment needs personal contact of the therapist and the patient, and she is right of course, this forum, as Victoria reminds us, is for information sharing on the yet little known subject of chinese healing(little known in the west, I mean). Anyway, the training of those who engage in chinese healing in the west, be them acupuncturists, shiatsu,tui-na, qi-gong, herb, etc, varies a lot; there are many different schools, curriculums, treatment approaches, and some times an overview can be helpful. You seem, by your feeling and tongue description, to have heat stasis(the red spots), but the white coating tells of cold, so there can be a mixed hot-cold condition as Lin mentioned. The origin of this heat in your body can be a lot of things, on of them, is a badly cured infection such as pneumonia, which, treated with antibiotics, instead of curing, pushes the external-heat of the infection deep in the body(residual-heat), Victoria put a post on this condition, if I recall correctly. There is treatment for that, as for most things. Now, as I said, this is for information only, you must seek to ascertain the cause and treatment for your condition with a competent TCM doctor. Marcos --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2 escreveu: > > >> Thankyou all for your contributions. I deeply appreciate it. I > was > away from the computer for a couple of days so i only managed > to > read the replies today. > > I kept my original message short but i can expand on my > condition. > > I have had the problem of fatigue and feeling hot for at least > 7 > years now. I seem to get overheated if i go into a warm > environoment, perform moderate activity or sit down for a hot > meal. > Its usually accompanied by sweating on the face and scalp and > flushing too. It usually passes within a minute but it makes me > feel > dizzy and unable to focus. My skin is oily and i have a lot of > dreams when i sleep. > > I get very anxious when i feel hot and the anxiety usually > makes it > worse. > > Regarding the condition of my tongue, the tip of my tongue is > covered in small red spots. The middle and back of my tongue > have > much larger red spots, like small bumps. The tongue coating is > uniform (not cracked) and tends to vary in thickness, usually > the > thickist when i wake up in the morning. > > I'm not sure about whether i have hyperthyroidism. I am still > trying > to figure out what is wrong with me. I seem to have some of the > > symptoms such as back pain, chronic fatigue, aversion to heat. > Anything remotely stimulating seems to make me feel hot whether > it > is food, physical activity or emotion. (I have to cut back on a > lot > of swimmming, sprinting and football because it takes me a long > time > to recover physically). > > I think my pulse is weak and hard to feel. I recall that the > rate of > the pulse is slightly fast but the doctor felt it was > acceptable for > someone of my age (I'm male and 22). > > I hope that wasn't too much to read Thankyou all > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the spleen > def. > > can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic > > fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it > vivid > > red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling too. > Is > > the tongue coating peeled or intact? > > > > hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin > def.with > > empty heat, liver yin def, also. > > > > Marcos > > > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> escreveu: > > > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 months > in > > > total. > > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen > difficiency > > > and > > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few > months > > > from > > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart > from my > > > > > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot > > > easily > > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back > pain > > > too. > > > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back > fine. > > > Thing > > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting > that i > > > could > > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further tests? > > > > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which > is > > > red all > > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > _____ Acesso Grátis - Instale o discador do agora. http://br.acesso./ - Internet rápida e grátis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Hi Mei, I've actually been seeing various TCM doctors for about 18 months but apart from the stool improving, i haven't seen much improvement. All the treatment i've had is from herbs. I am currently in Hong Kong and have been seeing another doctor for about 3 weeks but don't seem to have gotten any better. My heartbeat does go up quite easily from even a little bit of stress. Marcos mentioned in another post that it seemed like heat stasis with cold (because of red spots and white coating on tongue) possibly due to a badly cured infection. This has been mentioned by my current TCM doctor but i don't know whether he has changed his diagnosis since. I do remember getting continually ill from colds when i was younger. I also do seem to get hot or cold very easily. Do any of these problems cause thyroid disorders? Sam Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > Hi Sam, > > The fact that you get hungry soon after you've eaten may point to > Stomach Yin deficiency as well. It is not uncommon to have kidney yin > deficiency affecting the yin of the whole body and vice versa. > > The teeth imprints along with having had loose stool does point to > spleen deficiency dampness. > > The fact that your heat sensations are worse in the evening further > emphasizes yin deficiency heat because yin should be anchoring yang at > this time of day. Since night is the yin part of the day, any > problems regarding yin will be more pronounced during the evening. > > Does your heart sometimes beat faster and more vigorously than normal? > > If your problem is one that is complex or chronic, sometimes it will > take a little longer to feel improvement with treatment. As the case > is with yin deficiency, it does tend to be a chronic situation. > However, within the 3 weeks, have you had any changes in your health > besides stool being firmer? > > May I also inquire about how the doctor is treating you? Acupunture? > Herbs? > > > Mei > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> wrote: > > > > > > Thx for your diagnosis Mei. I've tried to answer your questions > > below: > > > > 1.How is your bowel movement? > > > > Two to three times a day. Usually pretty soon after a medium sized > > meal. My stool used to be very loose but is much better since i > > started the herbs. > > > > 2.Is your appetite ok? > > > > My appetite is fine although i tend to get hungry very soon after > > i've eaten. I also have a sweet toothe but i can control myself with > > regards to sweet food. > > > > 3.Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > > > > My chinese doctor did point this out. I think i have still a > > little but maybe not as prominent as before. > > > > 4.Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, > > emotional)? > > > > Yes, i feel very hot and feel like the heat is rising to my face > > and off the top of my head. My face usually feels very hot and goes > > red. Trying to hold down the sensation of the heat rising is > > something i find quite myself doing on a daily basis. Its quite > > stressful. > > > > 5.Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty much > > the same intensity throughout the day? > > > > Its worst in the evenings, especially after dinner. In the morning > > i feel better especially before i've eaten anything or done much > > physical activity. > > > > ------------------------------- > > I think i've been told by a couple of doctors that the dampness is a > > result of my spleen being too weak. > > > > I'm in Hong Kong at the moment so theres no shortage of TCM > > practitioners here. I don't seem to have improved at all after > > seeing a reputable TCM doctor for 3 weeks. Let me know if you have > > any more questions. > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " > > <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Sam! > > > > > > How is your bowel movement? Is it once a day? Is your appetite > > ok? > > > > > > Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > > > Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, > > emotional)? > > > Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty much > > > the same intensity throughout the day? > > > > > > From what you've said so far, it sounds like you may have Heart > > and > > > Kidney Yin deficiency with empty heat rising, along with dampness, > > > the source of which is still unclear to me. > > > > > > I say there is heart involvement because you feel anxiety, and > > that > > > usually points to the heart. > > > A weak pulse is also indicative of the heart's pumping function > > being > > > weak. Also, restless sleep can also be a result of the heart > > spirit > > > not being anchored. > > > > > > Herbs would be very beneficial to your condition. My teacher with > > > whom I apprentice, he treats people with herbs alone, and they > > only > > > get better each week. > > > That is not to say that other forms of treatment cannot do just as > > > well... > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > Mei > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankyou all for your contributions. I deeply appreciate it. I > > was > > > > away from the computer for a couple of days so i only managed to > > > > read the replies today. > > > > > > > > I kept my original message short but i can expand on my > > condition. > > > > > > > > I have had the problem of fatigue and feeling hot for at least > > 7 > > > > years now. I seem to get overheated if i go into a warm > > > > environoment, perform moderate activity or sit down for a hot > > meal. > > > > Its usually accompanied by sweating on the face and scalp and > > > > flushing too. It usually passes within a minute but it makes me > > > feel > > > > dizzy and unable to focus. My skin is oily and i have a lot of > > > > dreams when i sleep. > > > > > > > > I get very anxious when i feel hot and the anxiety usually makes > > it > > > > worse. > > > > > > > > Regarding the condition of my tongue, the tip of my tongue is > > > > covered in small red spots. The middle and back of my tongue > > have > > > > much larger red spots, like small bumps. The tongue coating is > > > > uniform (not cracked) and tends to vary in thickness, usually > > the > > > > thickist when i wake up in the morning. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure about whether i have hyperthyroidism. I am still > > > trying > > > > to figure out what is wrong with me. I seem to have some of the > > > > symptoms such as back pain, chronic fatigue, aversion to heat. > > > > Anything remotely stimulating seems to make me feel hot whether > > it > > > > is food, physical activity or emotion. (I have to cut back on a > > lot > > > > of swimmming, sprinting and football because it takes me a long > > > time > > > > to recover physically). > > > > > > > > I think my pulse is weak and hard to feel. I recall that the > > rate > > > of > > > > the pulse is slightly fast but the doctor felt it was acceptable > > > for > > > > someone of my age (I'm male and 22). > > > > > > > > I hope that wasn't too much to read Thankyou all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the spleen > > def. > > > > > can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic > > > > > fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it vivid > > > > > red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling too. Is > > > > > the tongue coating peeled or intact? > > > > > > > > > > hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin def.with > > > > > empty heat, liver yin def, also. > > > > > > > > > > Marcos > > > > > > > > > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> escreveu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 months > > in > > > > > > total. > > > > > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen > > difficiency > > > > > > and > > > > > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few months > > > > > > from > > > > > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart from > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get hot > > > > > > easily > > > > > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower back > > pain > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back fine. > > > > > > Thing > > > > > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting that > > i > > > > > > could > > > > > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further tests? > > > > > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > > > > > > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue which is > > > > > > red all > > > > > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Messenger > > > > > http://br.download./messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Many of the symptoms you have mentioned are those of Yin Deficiency. There were two reasons I asked why you suspect you have hyperthyroidism. One is that TCM healers are trained not to base TCM diagnoses on a Western allopathic medical diagnosis. Because clinical symptoms can vary from individual to individual, TCM healers want to know the specific symptoms and signs the person is having. The second reason is that hyperthyroidism and Yin Deficiency have many of the same symptoms. They are not the same thing, but they have some of the same symptoms. Just like hypothyroidism and Kidney Yang Deficiency have many of the same symptoms. Yin cools, calms, and moistens. When there is not enough Yin to properly cool the body, this also is called Deficiency Heat. (Excess Heat is Heat caused by there being too much of something. Too many foods and herbs which are warming, weather too hot,etc. If a person is Yin Deficient, they are more likely to be affected by food being warm or the food having a heating effect on the body. Something that wouldn't cause a person with enough Yin to feel overheated can make a Yin Deficient person feel hot. There is not enough Yin to properly cool the body.) Any Deficiency condition - Qi, Blood, Yang, or Yin - and Dampness can cause fatigue. There are some differences between the fatigue of different Roots of fatigue. The fatigue of Yin Deficiency is a nervous type of fatigue. Even though the person is tired, he may not be able to sit still, and feels a need to keep moving. The fatigue may not even manifest until the Yin Deficiency becomes fairly severe. The fatigue of Dampness has an element of heaviness. The arms and legs may feel like there are weighs attached to them. The entire body may feel heavy and weighed down. The Kidneys supply Yin (and Yang) to the rest of the body. If the KIdneys are Yin Deficiency, they are unable to supply enough Yin to the rest of the body, and symptoms and signs of Yin Deficiency start to show up in various Organs. When the Kidneys are Yin Deficient, they are almost sure to also be Yang Deficient too but to a lesser degree. This isn't going to mean anything to you right now, but it's one of the possibilities your healer is keeping in mind. The Spleen plays a major role in the body having enough Qi. Another function of Spleen Qi is that it transforms and transports liquids in the body. When the Spleen is weak, the liquids are not getting properly transformed and transported. Hence, the Dampness accumulation. Furthermore, the Spleen is very vulnerable to Dampness. Dampness weakens the Spleen. It's a snowballing situation. The more the Spleen is weakened by Dampness (and other things), the more Dampness accumulates, and the weaker the Spleen gets. The Spleen also plays a major role in the formation of Blood. The TCM definition of Blood is not the same as anatomical blood. One thing that caught my attention was you said you had a pale complexion. Is there any blotchy redness in the complexion, or is there a redness on the surface of the pale complexion like a layer of rouge? A blotchy redness in the face - what Maciocia calls a " malar flush " - is one of the things which is indicative of Yin Deficiency (aka Deficiency Heat). In cases of Excess Heat, the complexion is uniformly red. In cases of something called True Cold- False Heat,the complexion may look like a layer of rouge over a pale complexion. (This is not a probable in your case because of the red tongue tissue, but I'm mentioning it for the students on the list and because of a recent discussion on hypothyroidism.) The complexion of someone who is Blood Deficient often is dull pale in contrast to the shiny paleness of Yang Deficiency. When a person is overly sensitive to heat, suspect that there may also be Blood Deficiency (and Yin Deficiency). When a person is overly sensitive to cold, suspect Qi Deficiency (and Yang Deficiency). A lot of this may sound very confusing at first. In time it will start to fall into place. Cold and Heat can exist at the same time in different parts of the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Hi Sam, Your condition is definitely a complex one. When you say that you get hot or cold easily, do you notice WHEN you get hot and when you get cold? You did mention you get heat sensations easily during the evening, do you also notice that your palms and/or soles get warm or sweat during the evening? Or are your hands and feet cold but your chest/torso warm? Do you also get restless or irritable in the evening? Blood stasis can arise from Qi and blood deficiency as well, which can be a possibility since your pulse is very weak. I wonder if your pulse is also thin...Blood stasis can also be caused by weak heart qi that is unable to move the blood as normal. Diagnosis in is one of the hardest things to learn. If only real live people fit the textbook pattern descriptions, but as I am learning more and more, it is rarely the case. Also, learning to accurately read the tongue and feel the pulse can be quite challenging as well. For example, if you look at your tongue in broad daylight, in natural sunlight (doesn't have to be direct), you will see your true tongue color). If you are inside a room lit by unnatural (flourescent especially) light, then everything changes. Most people's tongue look purple under flourescent light. Also, one has to have a trained eye to know what is a white tongue coating and what is a yellow tongue coat, what is considered unrooted, etc. When I first started out apprenticing, when my teacher and I look at a tongue together, I will say white coat, but he will say yellow. Sorry for so many questions, I'm trying to understand your condition better, and hope that I can provide you with more assistance... I have a Master's degree in Chinese medicine, licensed in New York, and currently living in China to further my studies by apprenticing with an experienced doctor. My teacher has a certain knack for treating difficult diseases (yi nan bing), so it has become my interest as well. It's funny that you live in HK, my husband and I will be going to HK in the near future to visit a friend there. LOL It's a small world. About the thyroid disorder, didn't you say you took a test and it came back fine? Or was that someone else? Mei Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> wrote: > > > Hi Mei, > I've actually been seeing various TCM doctors for about 18 > months but apart from the stool improving, i haven't seen much > improvement. All the treatment i've had is from herbs. > > I am currently in Hong Kong and have been seeing another doctor for > about 3 weeks but don't seem to have gotten any better. > > My heartbeat does go up quite easily from even a little bit of > stress. > > Marcos mentioned in another post that it seemed like heat stasis > with cold (because of red spots and white coating on tongue) > possibly due to a badly cured infection. > > This has been mentioned by my current TCM doctor but i don't know > whether he has changed his diagnosis since. I do remember getting > continually ill from colds when i was younger. I also do seem to get > hot or cold very easily. > > Do any of these problems cause thyroid disorders? > > Sam > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " > <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Sam, > > > > The fact that you get hungry soon after you've eaten may point to > > Stomach Yin deficiency as well. It is not uncommon to have kidney > yin > > deficiency affecting the yin of the whole body and vice versa. > > > > The teeth imprints along with having had loose stool does point to > > spleen deficiency dampness. > > > > The fact that your heat sensations are worse in the evening further > > emphasizes yin deficiency heat because yin should be anchoring > yang at > > this time of day. Since night is the yin part of the day, any > > problems regarding yin will be more pronounced during the evening. > > > > Does your heart sometimes beat faster and more vigorously than > normal? > > > > If your problem is one that is complex or chronic, sometimes it > will > > take a little longer to feel improvement with treatment. As the > case > > is with yin deficiency, it does tend to be a chronic situation. > > However, within the 3 weeks, have you had any changes in your > health > > besides stool being firmer? > > > > May I also inquire about how the doctor is treating you? > Acupunture? > > Herbs? > > > > > > Mei > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thx for your diagnosis Mei. I've tried to answer your questions > > > below: > > > > > > 1.How is your bowel movement? > > > > > > Two to three times a day. Usually pretty soon after a medium > sized > > > meal. My stool used to be very loose but is much better since i > > > started the herbs. > > > > > > 2.Is your appetite ok? > > > > > > My appetite is fine although i tend to get hungry very soon > after > > > i've eaten. I also have a sweet toothe but i can control myself > with > > > regards to sweet food. > > > > > > 3.Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > > > > > > My chinese doctor did point this out. I think i have still a > > > little but maybe not as prominent as before. > > > > > > 4.Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, > > > emotional)? > > > > > > Yes, i feel very hot and feel like the heat is rising to my > face > > > and off the top of my head. My face usually feels very hot and > goes > > > red. Trying to hold down the sensation of the heat rising is > > > something i find quite myself doing on a daily basis. Its quite > > > stressful. > > > > > > 5.Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty > much > > > the same intensity throughout the day? > > > > > > Its worst in the evenings, especially after dinner. In the > morning > > > i feel better especially before i've eaten anything or done much > > > physical activity. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > I think i've been told by a couple of doctors that the dampness > is a > > > result of my spleen being too weak. > > > > > > I'm in Hong Kong at the moment so theres no shortage of TCM > > > practitioners here. I don't seem to have improved at all after > > > seeing a reputable TCM doctor for 3 weeks. Let me know if you > have > > > any more questions. > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " > > > <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sam! > > > > > > > > How is your bowel movement? Is it once a day? Is your > appetite > > > ok? > > > > > > > > Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > > > > Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, > > > emotional)? > > > > Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty > much > > > > the same intensity throughout the day? > > > > > > > > From what you've said so far, it sounds like you may have > Heart > > > and > > > > Kidney Yin deficiency with empty heat rising, along with > dampness, > > > > the source of which is still unclear to me. > > > > > > > > I say there is heart involvement because you feel anxiety, and > > > that > > > > usually points to the heart. > > > > A weak pulse is also indicative of the heart's pumping > function > > > being > > > > weak. Also, restless sleep can also be a result of the heart > > > spirit > > > > not being anchored. > > > > > > > > Herbs would be very beneficial to your condition. My teacher > with > > > > whom I apprentice, he treats people with herbs alone, and they > > > only > > > > get better each week. > > > > That is not to say that other forms of treatment cannot do > just as > > > > well... > > > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > > > Mei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " > <sam_ng2> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankyou all for your contributions. I deeply appreciate it. > I > > > was > > > > > away from the computer for a couple of days so i only > managed to > > > > > read the replies today. > > > > > > > > > > I kept my original message short but i can expand on my > > > condition. > > > > > > > > > > I have had the problem of fatigue and feeling hot for at > least > > > 7 > > > > > years now. I seem to get overheated if i go into a warm > > > > > environoment, perform moderate activity or sit down for a > hot > > > meal. > > > > > Its usually accompanied by sweating on the face and scalp > and > > > > > flushing too. It usually passes within a minute but it makes > me > > > > feel > > > > > dizzy and unable to focus. My skin is oily and i have a lot > of > > > > > dreams when i sleep. > > > > > > > > > > I get very anxious when i feel hot and the anxiety usually > makes > > > it > > > > > worse. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the condition of my tongue, the tip of my tongue > is > > > > > covered in small red spots. The middle and back of my tongue > > > have > > > > > much larger red spots, like small bumps. The tongue coating > is > > > > > uniform (not cracked) and tends to vary in thickness, > usually > > > the > > > > > thickist when i wake up in the morning. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure about whether i have hyperthyroidism. I am > still > > > > trying > > > > > to figure out what is wrong with me. I seem to have some of > the > > > > > symptoms such as back pain, chronic fatigue, aversion to > heat. > > > > > Anything remotely stimulating seems to make me feel hot > whether > > > it > > > > > is food, physical activity or emotion. (I have to cut back > on a > > > lot > > > > > of swimmming, sprinting and football because it takes me a > long > > > > time > > > > > to recover physically). > > > > > > > > > > I think my pulse is weak and hard to feel. I recall that the > > > rate > > > > of > > > > > the pulse is slightly fast but the doctor felt it was > acceptable > > > > for > > > > > someone of my age (I'm male and 22). > > > > > > > > > > I hope that wasn't too much to read Thankyou all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the > spleen > > > def. > > > > > > can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic > > > > > > fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it > vivid > > > > > > red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling > too. Is > > > > > > the tongue coating peeled or intact? > > > > > > > > > > > > hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin > def.with > > > > > > empty heat, liver yin def, also. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marcos > > > > > > > > > > > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> escreveu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 > months > > > in > > > > > > > total. > > > > > > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen > > > difficiency > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few > months > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart > from > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get > hot > > > > > > > easily > > > > > > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower > back > > > pain > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back > fine. > > > > > > > Thing > > > > > > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting > that > > > i > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further > tests? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue > which is > > > > > > > red all > > > > > > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o > Messenger > > > > > > http://br.download./messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Maybe there is some nutritional imbalances. Have you looked into your calcium and magnesium levels? I had a hair test done by an alternative doctor and this test is very good to measure your mineral levels. Amino acid Taurine is to be helpful for heart rhythms and anxiety. Thyroid problems can give you heart symptoms and constipation. Feeling cold and dry skin too. Inability to think. You can get your thyroid tested but look at the mineral issue also. You need all your minerals to be at a strong balance in the body for the thyroid to work. My doctor was considering putting me on the thyroid medicine until he checked my mineral levels. Found them to be low and had me take mineral supplements. All my symptoms cleared up and my thyroid test came out normal. You can have thyroid problems even if your test results show it to be in the Low Normal range. It depends on the person. Low Normal can be defiecnt for some people. It is hard to get the doctor to understand that. To them it is still normal. Liz D. > [Original Message] > sam_ng2 <sam_ng2 > <Chinese Traditional Medicine > > 2/15/2005 10:34:57 PM > [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Test for hyperthyroidism? > > > > > Hi Mei, > I've actually been seeing various TCM doctors for about 18 > months but apart from the stool improving, i haven't seen much > improvement. All the treatment i've had is from herbs. > > I am currently in Hong Kong and have been seeing another doctor for > about 3 weeks but don't seem to have gotten any better. > > My heartbeat does go up quite easily from even a little bit of > stress. > > Marcos mentioned in another post that it seemed like heat stasis > with cold (because of red spots and white coating on tongue) > possibly due to a badly cured infection. > > This has been mentioned by my current TCM doctor but i don't know > whether he has changed his diagnosis since. I do remember getting > continually ill from colds when i was younger. I also do seem to get > hot or cold very easily. > > Do any of these problems cause thyroid disorders? > > Sam > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Chinese Traditional Medicine , " " <Rabbitbrain@e...> wrote: > > Maybe there is some nutritional imbalances. Have you > looked into your calcium and magnesium levels? I have some concerns about this too. Magnesium and other minerals are lost through sweat. He mentioned sweating a lot. One of the things that can be triggered by Mg deficiency is anxiety. Also insomnia, tremors, muscles spasms, muscles that stay too contracted (tense), and more sensitivity to pain. In one of his posts he mentioned that the sweating and anxiety are occuring together. What if it's not the anxiety causing the sweating but the sweating causing the anxiety because of the loss of Mg? In a person who is already Mg deficient or borderline, sweating can result in Mg level going low enough to cause symptoms. Especially in someone who has been Mg deficient or borderline for some time. Voice of experience here. There are a number of factors that can cause or contribute to Mg deficiency. Being born with a greater than normal need for the mineral and/or poor absorption and assimilation, a diet poor in Mg- rich foods, food processing removing a lot of the Mg from foods which normally are high in Mg, crops grown in Mg-deficient soils, and sweating. Both Qi Deficiency and Yin Deficiency can cause excessive sweating. If a person is chronicly deficient in Mg and other minerals and has Qi Deficiency (and/or Yin Deficiency), it's going to be hard to permanently correct the mineral deficiency until the Qi Deficiency and/or Yin Deficiency also are corrected. It's going to be like bailing a leaky rowboat without fixing the leak. Yes, one can keep the boat afloat with Mg supplementation but at some point the leak is going to need to be fixed if one wants a boat in the best condition. Given his particular symptoms he may also want to look into the possibility of potassium deficiency. People wishing to learn more about Mg deficiency can Google for Mildred Seelig MD magnesium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Victoria, When I had my liver and spleen meridian worked on it helped balance my digestion so much that I didn't notice I needed to supplement my magnesium. I seem to need mag on a daily basis. However interesting that I took taurine to remove panic an anxiety feeling. Here I am just trying to find out what to take to see if I need something or not. Because I always felt I am deficient in something and nothing shows up on my tests. So I tried acupuncture and would like to get back to doing it. But I have been doing searches for awhile on what is good for what like allot of us are doing and a few months ago I ran into information on how magnesium and taurine work together. If you are low in mag it is a great possibility your taurine supplies are low too. Incredible because it seemed to be talking to me. I had no idea these to supplements had a balanced demand in our bodies. I just wanted to mention that to those who know they are mag deficient. Look into taurine. Also do a search to find out what other cofactors help support mag and taurine function. Vitamin D is in there, I recall. I think I fit in the deficiency of my body not absorbing it properly. Liz D. > [Original Message] > victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon > <Chinese Traditional Medicine > > 2/17/2005 9:08:54 AM > [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Test for hyperthyroidism? > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " " <Rabbitbrain@e...> wrote: > > > > Maybe there is some nutritional imbalances. Have you > > looked into your calcium and magnesium levels? > > I have some concerns about this too. Magnesium and other minerals > are lost through sweat. He mentioned sweating a lot. > > One of the things that can be triggered by Mg deficiency is > anxiety. Also insomnia, tremors, muscles spasms, muscles that stay > too contracted (tense), and more sensitivity to pain. In one of his > posts he mentioned that the sweating and anxiety are occuring > together. What if it's not the anxiety causing the sweating but the > sweating causing the anxiety because of the loss of Mg? > > In a person who is already Mg deficient or borderline, sweating can > result in Mg level going low enough to cause symptoms. Especially in > someone who has been Mg deficient or borderline for some time. > Voice of experience here. > > There are a number of factors that can cause or contribute to Mg > deficiency. Being born with a greater than normal need for the > mineral and/or poor absorption and assimilation, a diet poor in Mg- > rich foods, food processing removing a lot of the Mg from foods > which normally are high in Mg, crops grown in Mg-deficient soils, > and sweating. Both Qi Deficiency and Yin Deficiency can cause > excessive sweating. If a person is chronicly deficient in Mg and > other minerals and has Qi Deficiency (and/or Yin Deficiency), it's > going to be hard to permanently correct the mineral deficiency until > the Qi Deficiency and/or Yin Deficiency also are corrected. It's > going to be like bailing a leaky rowboat without fixing the leak. > Yes, one can keep the boat afloat with Mg supplementation but at > some point the leak is going to need to be fixed if one wants a boat > in the best condition. > > Given his particular symptoms he may also want to look into the > possibility of potassium deficiency. > > People wishing to learn more about Mg deficiency can Google for > Mildred Seelig MD magnesium. > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Hi Mei, I do notice when i get hot or cold. When i get heat sensations in the evening, it is usually my face and head that sweat + flush. My hands and feet are usually fine although they tend to be cold even if i feel hot. I have noticed that in the past few years, i've be getting the problem of my hand going numb during sleep, usually when i've been sleeping on my side or with my arm behind my head. When this happens, i usually semi-awaken and manage to shake my arm to get the circulation going to my hand within a minute or so. Maybe this has something to do with the blood stasis that you mentioned. Yep, it was me who queried about further thyroid tests to see if i had hyperthyroidism (or even hypo). I'm in HK at the moment on holiday (i'm from the UK), primarily to see another Chinese doctor. I talked to him and he seems to reluctant to explain in detail about my condition (not that i would understand the Cantonese terms anyway) but mentioned that the problems lay with my mood (emotion?) and my digestive system. He dismissed the possibility of a problem with the kidney. Its great that you're studying TCM. Its something i've thought about if i don't find a good remedy for my condition. I don't think it will be that easy in the UK because the only university offering a degree asks for a background in medicine or biology. I've definitely learnt at lot from reading about TCM on the internet though. I found that letting my food cool so that it is only lukewarm helps reduce those sensations of rising heat when i'm eating. Also i feel less shivering/chills after eating. After my evening meal, i've tried to do some abdominal breathing while sitting in front of my PC and found it helps prevent me from feeling too hot and feeling flushed. Damn, i think i've written too much...makes it so much harder to read. Anyway i look forward to any further advice you or any other members can give me Sam Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > Hi Sam, > Your condition is definitely a complex one. > When you say that you get hot or cold easily, do you notice WHEN you > get hot and when you get cold? You did mention you get heat > sensations easily during the evening, do you also notice that your > palms and/or soles get warm or sweat during the evening? > Or are your hands and feet cold but your chest/torso warm? > Do you also get restless or irritable in the evening? > > Blood stasis can arise from Qi and blood deficiency as well, which > can be a possibility since your pulse is very weak. I wonder if your > pulse is also thin...Blood stasis can also be caused by weak heart qi > that is unable to move the blood as normal. > > Diagnosis in is one of the hardest things to learn. > If only real live people fit the textbook pattern descriptions, but > as I am learning more and more, it is rarely the case. Also, > learning to accurately read the tongue and feel the pulse can be > quite challenging as well. For example, if you look at your tongue > in broad daylight, in natural sunlight (doesn't have to be direct), > you will see your true tongue color). If you are inside a room lit > by unnatural (flourescent especially) light, then everything > changes. Most people's tongue look purple under flourescent light. > Also, one has to have a trained eye to know what is a white tongue > coating and what is a yellow tongue coat, what is considered > unrooted, etc. When I first started out apprenticing, when my > teacher and I look at a tongue together, I will say white coat, but > he will say yellow. > > Sorry for so many questions, I'm trying to understand your condition > better, and hope that I can provide you with more assistance... > > I have a Master's degree in Chinese medicine, licensed in New York, > and currently living in China to further my studies by apprenticing > with an experienced doctor. My teacher has a certain knack for > treating difficult diseases (yi nan bing), so it has become my > interest as well. > > It's funny that you live in HK, my husband and I will be going to HK > in the near future to visit a friend there. LOL > It's a small world. > > About the thyroid disorder, didn't you say you took a test and it > came back fine? Or was that someone else? > > Mei > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mei, > > I've actually been seeing various TCM doctors for about 18 > > months but apart from the stool improving, i haven't seen much > > improvement. All the treatment i've had is from herbs. > > > > I am currently in Hong Kong and have been seeing another doctor for > > about 3 weeks but don't seem to have gotten any better. > > > > My heartbeat does go up quite easily from even a little bit of > > stress. > > > > Marcos mentioned in another post that it seemed like heat stasis > > with cold (because of red spots and white coating on tongue) > > possibly due to a badly cured infection. > > > > This has been mentioned by my current TCM doctor but i don't know > > whether he has changed his diagnosis since. I do remember getting > > continually ill from colds when i was younger. I also do seem to > get > > hot or cold very easily. > > > > Do any of these problems cause thyroid disorders? > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " > > <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Sam, > > > > > > The fact that you get hungry soon after you've eaten may point to > > > Stomach Yin deficiency as well. It is not uncommon to have > kidney > > yin > > > deficiency affecting the yin of the whole body and vice versa. > > > > > > The teeth imprints along with having had loose stool does point to > > > spleen deficiency dampness. > > > > > > The fact that your heat sensations are worse in the evening > further > > > emphasizes yin deficiency heat because yin should be anchoring > > yang at > > > this time of day. Since night is the yin part of the day, any > > > problems regarding yin will be more pronounced during the evening. > > > > > > Does your heart sometimes beat faster and more vigorously than > > normal? > > > > > > If your problem is one that is complex or chronic, sometimes it > > will > > > take a little longer to feel improvement with treatment. As the > > case > > > is with yin deficiency, it does tend to be a chronic situation. > > > However, within the 3 weeks, have you had any changes in your > > health > > > besides stool being firmer? > > > > > > May I also inquire about how the doctor is treating you? > > Acupunture? > > > Herbs? > > > > > > > > > Mei > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " <sam_ng2> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thx for your diagnosis Mei. I've tried to answer your questions > > > > below: > > > > > > > > 1.How is your bowel movement? > > > > > > > > Two to three times a day. Usually pretty soon after a medium > > sized > > > > meal. My stool used to be very loose but is much better since i > > > > started the herbs. > > > > > > > > 2.Is your appetite ok? > > > > > > > > My appetite is fine although i tend to get hungry very soon > > after > > > > i've eaten. I also have a sweet toothe but i can control myself > > with > > > > regards to sweet food. > > > > > > > > 3.Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > > > > > > > > My chinese doctor did point this out. I think i have still a > > > > little but maybe not as prominent as before. > > > > > > > > 4.Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, > > > > emotional)? > > > > > > > > Yes, i feel very hot and feel like the heat is rising to my > > face > > > > and off the top of my head. My face usually feels very hot and > > goes > > > > red. Trying to hold down the sensation of the heat rising is > > > > something i find quite myself doing on a daily basis. Its quite > > > > stressful. > > > > > > > > 5.Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty > > much > > > > the same intensity throughout the day? > > > > > > > > Its worst in the evenings, especially after dinner. In the > > morning > > > > i feel better especially before i've eaten anything or done > much > > > > physical activity. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > I think i've been told by a couple of doctors that the dampness > > is a > > > > result of my spleen being too weak. > > > > > > > > I'm in Hong Kong at the moment so theres no shortage of TCM > > > > practitioners here. I don't seem to have improved at all after > > > > seeing a reputable TCM doctor for 3 weeks. Let me know if you > > have > > > > any more questions. > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mindbodyacupuncture " > > > > <mindbodyacupuncture> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sam! > > > > > > > > > > How is your bowel movement? Is it once a day? Is your > > appetite > > > > ok? > > > > > > > > > > Does your tongue have teeth imprints on the edges? > > > > > Do you get heart palpitations when under stress (physical, > > > > emotional)? > > > > > Do your sensations of heat get worse in the evening or pretty > > much > > > > > the same intensity throughout the day? > > > > > > > > > > From what you've said so far, it sounds like you may have > > Heart > > > > and > > > > > Kidney Yin deficiency with empty heat rising, along with > > dampness, > > > > > the source of which is still unclear to me. > > > > > > > > > > I say there is heart involvement because you feel anxiety, > and > > > > that > > > > > usually points to the heart. > > > > > A weak pulse is also indicative of the heart's pumping > > function > > > > being > > > > > weak. Also, restless sleep can also be a result of the heart > > > > spirit > > > > > not being anchored. > > > > > > > > > > Herbs would be very beneficial to your condition. My teacher > > with > > > > > whom I apprentice, he treats people with herbs alone, and > they > > > > only > > > > > get better each week. > > > > > That is not to say that other forms of treatment cannot do > > just as > > > > > well... > > > > > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > > > > > Mei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " sam_ng2 " > > <sam_ng2> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankyou all for your contributions. I deeply appreciate > it. > > I > > > > was > > > > > > away from the computer for a couple of days so i only > > managed to > > > > > > read the replies today. > > > > > > > > > > > > I kept my original message short but i can expand on my > > > > condition. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have had the problem of fatigue and feeling hot for at > > least > > > > 7 > > > > > > years now. I seem to get overheated if i go into a warm > > > > > > environoment, perform moderate activity or sit down for a > > hot > > > > meal. > > > > > > Its usually accompanied by sweating on the face and scalp > > and > > > > > > flushing too. It usually passes within a minute but it > makes > > me > > > > > feel > > > > > > dizzy and unable to focus. My skin is oily and i have a lot > > of > > > > > > dreams when i sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > I get very anxious when i feel hot and the anxiety usually > > makes > > > > it > > > > > > worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the condition of my tongue, the tip of my tongue > > is > > > > > > covered in small red spots. The middle and back of my > tongue > > > > have > > > > > > much larger red spots, like small bumps. The tongue coating > > is > > > > > > uniform (not cracked) and tends to vary in thickness, > > usually > > > > the > > > > > > thickist when i wake up in the morning. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure about whether i have hyperthyroidism. I am > > still > > > > > trying > > > > > > to figure out what is wrong with me. I seem to have some of > > the > > > > > > symptoms such as back pain, chronic fatigue, aversion to > > heat. > > > > > > Anything remotely stimulating seems to make me feel hot > > whether > > > > it > > > > > > is food, physical activity or emotion. (I have to cut back > > on a > > > > lot > > > > > > of swimmming, sprinting and football because it takes me a > > long > > > > > time > > > > > > to recover physically). > > > > > > > > > > > > I think my pulse is weak and hard to feel. I recall that > the > > > > rate > > > > > of > > > > > > the pulse is slightly fast but the doctor felt it was > > acceptable > > > > > for > > > > > > someone of my age (I'm male and 22). > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope that wasn't too much to read Thankyou all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > the lower back pain indicates kidney deficiency, the > > spleen > > > > def. > > > > > > > can give rise to damp and that CAN account for the chronic > > > > > > > fatigue(plus the kd,yang def.). Now the red tongue is it > > vivid > > > > > > > red or more purplish? the rate of the pulse is telling > > too. Is > > > > > > > the tongue coating peeled or intact? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hyperthyroid involves usually a pattern of kidney yin > > def.with > > > > > > > empty heat, liver yin def, also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marcos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> escreveu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've seen various TCM practitioners for about a 18 > > months > > > > in > > > > > > > > total. > > > > > > > > I seemed to have been diagnosed with mainly spleen > > > > difficiency > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > dampness (damp heat?). I've taken the herbs for a few > > months > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > each doctor but don't seem to be progressing much apart > > from > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stool being much firmer than at the start. I still get > > hot > > > > > > > > easily > > > > > > > > and suffer from chronic fatigue. I get chronic lower > > back > > > > pain > > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had a blood test for my thyroid but they came back > > fine. > > > > > > > > Thing > > > > > > > > i want to know is how accurate it is as I am suspecting > > that > > > > i > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > have hyperthyroidism. Should i ask my GP for further > > tests? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any advice, thx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My pulse is weak, thickish white coating on tongue > > which is > > > > > > > > red all > > > > > > > > over, pale complexion. i watch my diet) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o > > Messenger > > > > > > > http://br.download./messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Thx victoria for the information. Can i ask my family doctor for these tests on calcium/magnesium/potassium levels? My shoulders do get very tense. I've had some accupuncture and the glass jar thingy (sorry i'm not sure what the exact term is) done because i was having pain in my arms and shoulders from using my computer mouse. My physiotherapist mentioned that i had some large muscle knots in my shoulder/neck area that she had difficulty loosening but it responded well to the treatment from my chinese doctor. Sam Chinese Traditional Medicine , " victoria_dragon " <victoria_dragon> wrote: > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " " <Rabbitbrain@e...> wrote: > > > > Maybe there is some nutritional imbalances. Have you > > looked into your calcium and magnesium levels? > > I have some concerns about this too. Magnesium and other minerals > are lost through sweat. He mentioned sweating a lot. > > One of the things that can be triggered by Mg deficiency is > anxiety. Also insomnia, tremors, muscles spasms, muscles that stay > too contracted (tense), and more sensitivity to pain. In one of his > posts he mentioned that the sweating and anxiety are occuring > together. What if it's not the anxiety causing the sweating but the > sweating causing the anxiety because of the loss of Mg? > > In a person who is already Mg deficient or borderline, sweating can > result in Mg level going low enough to cause symptoms. Especially in > someone who has been Mg deficient or borderline for some time. > Voice of experience here. > > There are a number of factors that can cause or contribute to Mg > deficiency. Being born with a greater than normal need for the > mineral and/or poor absorption and assimilation, a diet poor in Mg- > rich foods, food processing removing a lot of the Mg from foods > which normally are high in Mg, crops grown in Mg-deficient soils, > and sweating. Both Qi Deficiency and Yin Deficiency can cause > excessive sweating. If a person is chronicly deficient in Mg and > other minerals and has Qi Deficiency (and/or Yin Deficiency), it's > going to be hard to permanently correct the mineral deficiency until > the Qi Deficiency and/or Yin Deficiency also are corrected. It's > going to be like bailing a leaky rowboat without fixing the leak. > Yes, one can keep the boat afloat with Mg supplementation but at > some point the leak is going to need to be fixed if one wants a boat > in the best condition. > > Given his particular symptoms he may also want to look into the > possibility of potassium deficiency. > > People wishing to learn more about Mg deficiency can Google for > Mildred Seelig MD magnesium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Sam, Just something else you might want to look into. I don't have any of the symptom you have except that I have what you described here: <I found that letting my food cool so that it is only lukewarm helps <reduce those sensations of rising heat when i'm eating. Also i feel l<ess shivering/chills after eating. I have experienced feeling cold and shivering after eating. With me I noticed it after eating a meal that is high in carbohydrates. Especially rice and pasta. One thing I knew about myself with a hair test was most all my minerals were low. I did a search on the net for what minerals were needed to help process carbohydrates. I found allot of good all around information and found manganese listed as an important source. Magnesium and manganese fight for the same receptor so you cannot take these two minerals together. So I made sure I took a small dose of manganese with my lunch and dinner for about a week. These symptoms went away. I don't have to supplement with manganese every day, Only when those cold shivering feeling come back. I wondered if you might have a similar problem like I did? Another helpful supplement is Evening of Primrose oil. I read that it also helps regulat a persons internal thermostate. Fatty acids are usually in less supply in our bodies because most foods has the other oils that cancel out its function. Maybe that will help you? I hope you find your answer to those misrable symptoms. I have had my share and it is troublesome when you don't fit the mainstream to be diagnosed. Liz D. > [Original Message] > sam_ng2 <sam_ng2 > <Chinese Traditional Medicine > > 2/18/2005 5:22:19 AM > [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Test for hyperthyroidism? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Hi Liz, what you wrote is interesting because i haven't looked into this possibility. I've taken some multi-vitamins before but not specifically magnesium or manganese. I do eat a fair amount of rice and noodles so maybe its a carbohydrate issue with me. You mentioned magnesium also but did you notice any improvement with your symptoms when taking just magnesium? Do you still take magnesium? I'm not really sure what the best time for taking vitamins and mineral supplements are. Does anyone know? Thankyou all for being so kind with your time and advice. Sam Chinese Traditional Medicine , " " <Rabbitbrain@e...> wrote: > > Sam, Just something else you might want to look into. > I don't have any of the symptom you have except that I have > what you described here: > > <I found that letting my food cool so that it is only lukewarm helps > <reduce those sensations of rising heat when i'm eating. Also i feel > l<ess shivering/chills after eating. > > I have experienced feeling cold and shivering after eating. With me > I noticed it after eating a meal that is high in carbohydrates. Especially > rice and pasta. > > One thing I knew about myself with a hair test was most all my minerals > were low. I did a search on the net for what minerals were needed to > help process carbohydrates. I found allot of good all around information > and found manganese listed as an important source. Magnesium and > manganese fight for the same receptor so you cannot take these two > minerals together. So I made sure I took a small dose of manganese > with my lunch and dinner for about a week. These symptoms went away. > I don't have to supplement with manganese every day, Only when those > cold shivering feeling come back. > > I wondered if you might have a similar problem like I did? > > Another helpful supplement is Evening of Primrose oil. I read that it also > helps regulat a persons internal thermostate. Fatty acids are usually in > less supply in our bodies because most foods has the other oils that > cancel out its function. Maybe that will help you? > > I hope you find your answer to those misrable symptoms. I have had > my share and it is troublesome when you don't fit the mainstream to > be diagnosed. > > Liz D. > > > > [Original Message] > > sam_ng2 <sam_ng2> > > <Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > 2/18/2005 5:22:19 AM > > [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Test for hyperthyroidism? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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