Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 I had acupuncture and was prescribed herbal medication for many problems. The acupuncture worked great! But I took the herbal medication and had two reactions.I have gastritis and the reaction after 1 minute was bad. I waited for the herbs to start working, about 1 hour and I started shaking very very bad at 1/4 the dose recommended. If I took the full dose I would have been in the ER. I talked to my oriental healer and said it was all in my head.How does an orenital healer perscribe herbs to someone like me. Please help. I am diagnosed as Heat-Damp-with kidney dysfunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 If you had that bad of a reaction to the herbs and your " healer " told you it was all in your head then you need to get another healer. Anyone who offers you help should be sympathetic to the symptoms you are having both from your condition and its treatment, and should adjust the nature of your treatment based on your body's response. While a psychosomatic reaction can not be ruled out, nevertheless you had a REAL (and severe) reaction which warrants immediate concern. I suggest you decide if this " healer " is right for you. -Matt Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tedd " <tguenzel@c...> wrote: > > I had acupuncture and was prescribed > herbal medication for many problems. > The acupuncture worked great! But I > took the herbal medication and had two > reactions.I have gastritis and the reaction > after 1 minute was bad. I waited for the > herbs to start working, about 1 hour and I started shaking > very very bad at 1/4 the dose recommended. If > I took the full dose I would have been in the ER. > I talked to my oriental healer and said it was all > in my head.How does an orenital healer perscribe herbs > to someone like me. Please help. I am diagnosed as > Heat-Damp-with kidney dysfunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I agree with Matt, lousy attitude for a healer. Just curious what they prescribed for you? Bob www.acuherbals.com Matt <ethereal_seas wrote: If you had that bad of a reaction to the herbs and your " healer " told you it was all in your head then you need to get another healer. Anyone who offers you help should be sympathetic to the symptoms you are having both from your condition and its treatment, and should adjust the nature of your treatment based on your body's response. While a psychosomatic reaction can not be ruled out, nevertheless you had a REAL (and severe) reaction which warrants immediate concern. I suggest you decide if this " healer " is right for you. -Matt Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tedd " <tguenzel@c...> wrote: > > I had acupuncture and was prescribed > herbal medication for many problems. > The acupuncture worked great! But I > took the herbal medication and had two > reactions.I have gastritis and the reaction > after 1 minute was bad. I waited for the > herbs to start working, about 1 hour and I started shaking > very very bad at 1/4 the dose recommended. If > I took the full dose I would have been in the ER. > I talked to my oriental healer and said it was all > in my head.How does an orenital healer perscribe herbs > to someone like me. Please help. I am diagnosed as > Heat-Damp-with kidney dysfunction. Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Here are the problems I went in for. Epstine barr virus,swollen lymph nodes,heat intolerance,lack of concentration,scrotum sweating,chronic fungal infection scrotum, testicle pain,decreased erectile function,gastritis,acid reflux, Irritable bowel syndrome,internal hemorrhoids,polyps in duodenum and large intestine,Diverticulitis,stop smoking and drinking, psoriasis,back pain,Varicose Veins,chronic anxiety, nausa,fear of vomiting. And the herbs, zhi zi zhu ru chen pi chi shao lian qiao zi cao fu ling qing hao fa ban xia huang qin muan shen bai mao gen di fu zi. My Epstine barr virus, Chronic fatigue syndrome, is so bad that after acupunture I got some relief for about 3 days.Talking to an acupuncturist from another about the relief I got said, We learned that CV l, GV l as well as the end points on both meridians are used when the person has absolutely no pulses. The reason being, the CV and GV meridians hose is kinked. I have seen these four points needled and the pulses immediately come up. People are not exactly thrilled to receive this treatment but in cases of chronic fatigue it's a godsend. I ask for this and they said no. I wonder if acupuncturists only do partial acupncuture. Should we start calling them limited acupuncturists. Thanks, Tedd Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist wrote: > I agree with Matt, lousy attitude for a healer. Just curious what they > prescribed for you? > Bob > www.acuherbals.com > > Matt <ethereal_seas wrote: > > If you had that bad of a reaction to the herbs and your " healer " told > you it was all in your head then you need to get another healer. > Anyone who offers you help should be sympathetic to the symptoms you > are having both from your condition and its treatment, and should > adjust the nature of your treatment based on your body's response. > While a psychosomatic reaction can not be ruled out, nevertheless you > had a REAL (and severe) reaction which warrants immediate concern. I > suggest you decide if this " healer " is right for you. > > -Matt > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tedd " <tguenzel@c...> wrote: > > > > I had acupuncture and was prescribed > > herbal medication for many problems. > > The acupuncture worked great! But I > > took the herbal medication and had two > > reactions.I have gastritis and the reaction > > after 1 minute was bad. I waited for the > > herbs to start working, about 1 hour and I started shaking > > very very bad at 1/4 the dose recommended. If > > I took the full dose I would have been in the ER. > > I talked to my oriental healer and said it was all > > in my head.How does an orenital healer perscribe herbs > > to someone like me. Please help. I am diagnosed as > > Heat-Damp-with kidney dysfunction. > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 PS It was not a psychosomatic reaction. Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist wrote: > I agree with Matt, lousy attitude for a healer. Just curious what they > prescribed for you? > Bob > www.acuherbals.com > > Matt <ethereal_seas wrote: > > If you had that bad of a reaction to the herbs and your " healer " told > you it was all in your head then you need to get another healer. > Anyone who offers you help should be sympathetic to the symptoms you > are having both from your condition and its treatment, and should > adjust the nature of your treatment based on your body's response. > While a psychosomatic reaction can not be ruled out, nevertheless you > had a REAL (and severe) reaction which warrants immediate concern. I > suggest you decide if this " healer " is right for you. > > -Matt > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tedd " <tguenzel@c...> wrote: > > > > I had acupuncture and was prescribed > > herbal medication for many problems. > > The acupuncture worked great! But I > > took the herbal medication and had two > > reactions.I have gastritis and the reaction > > after 1 minute was bad. I waited for the > > herbs to start working, about 1 hour and I started shaking > > very very bad at 1/4 the dose recommended. If > > I took the full dose I would have been in the ER. > > I talked to my oriental healer and said it was all > > in my head.How does an orenital healer perscribe herbs > > to someone like me. Please help. I am diagnosed as > > Heat-Damp-with kidney dysfunction. > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Hi Tedd, I'm not sure what you are trying to tell us about your pulses. > We learned that CV l, GV l as well as > the end points on both meridians are > used when the person has absolutely no > pulses. Are you saying that at your wrists there is no detectable pulse that can be used for diagnosis? Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 No, Just that at those points, it helps with cfs the best I heard. hyldemoer wrote: > > Hi Tedd, > I'm not sure what you are trying to tell us about your pulses. > > > We learned that CV l, GV l as well as > > the end points on both meridians are > > used when the person has absolutely no > > pulses. > > Are you saying that at your wrists there is no detectable pulse that > can be used for diagnosis? > > Penel > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 tedd <tguenzel@c...> wrote: > No, > Just that at those points, it helps with cfs the best I heard. Chinese medicine treats the body based on patterns that are assessed by several methods. Where Western medicine might label a disorder and treat the symptoms (the branch), Chinese would also treat the symptom but gives priority (in most traditions) to attempting to address the etiology of those symptoms (the root). By reading our pulses, viewing our tongues, eyes, voice, paltating parts of our body it might be decided that you and I have a very similar health adventure happening even though the physical phenomena (symptoms) present themself very differently. On the other hand, you and I might both be diagnosed by Western medicine as having the exact same pathology but diagnostics of Asian medicine might suggest our adventure are caused by totally different balances suggesting completely different methods of therapy. #2 Asian medicine is not, inspite of all of Chairman Mao's efforts, one big uniform science. Asia is a big place. There are many languages to explain its many cultures and traditions. #3 In many countries there are uniform tests a practitioner has to pass to establish a minimum level of education attained before given a license but, it stands to reason, the practitioners are not limited to using only that base line of education. #4 There are some practices commonly accepted in Chinese medicine that are not legal to do in every state of the USA. For example; I've been told that moxabustion, very basic to Asian medicine, is illegal in some states of the USA. Writting the Western medicine name of your health adventure in the records as what they are treating you for rather than using the Asian medical vocabulary is enough to get a practitioner in trouble in some places. My craft is the Japanese interpretation of Asian bodywork therapy called shiatsu. I could go to jail for touching you at CV1 and/or GV1. You wouldn't be lieing on my futon for very long if you asked me to. #5 Malpractice insurance is invalid when doing something that is illegal. #6 If you're not happy with the treatment from one practitioner, shop around. I venture to suggest that perhaps the search for help is a vital part of the therapy itself. #7 Do you know where CV1 and GV1 are? If you really want to follow an arbitrary " cook book " additude to your therapy, might you first want to try self application of acupressure? Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 This posting on herbal reaction brings up interesting points. It is actually quite common for people to have stomach upset when taking herbal formulas for the first time. Usually it simply means that the persons stomach is not prepared to accept the strength of the formula given - this is easily corrected by taking smaller doses of the formula for a few days - eg. either dilute and or taken in small doses several times during the day. Many with weak stomach energy have trouble digesting strong substances. Of course it can not be ruled out that the formula is not correct for the syndrome the patient is suffering from. There are many things that can cause stomach upset when taking herbal formulas. Examples are cold stomach energy - another is incompatabilities such as the incompatability of many tonic herbs which are to strong for the patients body - another is such common issues as taking acidic substances with such herbs as ginseng or ho sho wu - which will cause stomach cramps in those with weak stomach energy. The interesting issue is the one about the practioners reaction to this problem. Any practioner who blames a reaction to herbs or any other therapy on the patient can not be thought of as a physician. Especially to blame the problem on psychological problems is the tactic of a second rate business man who wants to avoid the issue of why the products do not work properly. This is not the posture of a doctor this is simple business man attitudes. Perhaps the doctor does not want to except responsabilty for prescribing a medicine that was not compatable with the patient - or maybe the doctor wants an excuse in case the patient wants refund of their money for a formula that is of no use to them. No real doctor practices medicine in this manner. This so called doctor's attitude toward the patient is amply revealed in the assertion that this is a psychosomatic problem implying that psychological states are not also real and a part of the patients disease picture. Any doctor who does not clearly understand the patient and all levels of their disease including the psychological simply does not understand anything about the human condition. A patients psychological states and sensitivites must always be considered in prescribing treatments. These are not imaginary symptoms these are real symptoms - why do some people think the mind is not real? The mind in my opinion is the most precise instrument to use in diagnosing any case. Observation of the patients reactive states - postures and attitudes - reveal a wealth of information about the syndrome the patient is suffering from. Many are not good at taking the pulse as an example but most can clearly see that the affect of the patient is either under expressed or over expressed - or that the patient has upward moving evil liver wind (anger, irritablity, irrationality, etc,) - observation of the patients mental state is an essential part of diagnosis. Many great physicians can easily diagnose the patients from looking at them without ever asking any questions about symptoms. I once knew an old style doctor who could diagnose the disease from smelling of the patient - he practiced in LA and had many patients that he could not talk to because of his very poor English - this was not important to him - he simply looked at the tounge - smelled the breath - smelled under the armpits - smelled the ears - he looked closely at the patient and wrote the prescription. He is gone now and unfortunately there are few doctors around today who understand disease to the this level. Yet this level is essential to being a true doctor. There is a doctor at Dharmasala in India who is associated with the Delhi Lama who can masterfully diagnose any case without ever seeing the patient - he is a master at urine diagnosis and needs no other information than a glass of the patients urine. Listening to long lists of symptoms is much less useful than the experience and understanding of the doctors observational abilities. Personality (personality is not an illusion it is a mirror of the patients internal state)reveals everything about the patient including their hypersensativityto herbs. Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Matt " <ethereal_seas> wrote: > > If you had that bad of a reaction to the herbs and your " healer " told > you it was all in your head then you need to get another healer. > Anyone who offers you help should be sympathetic to the symptoms you > are having both from your condition and its treatment, and should > adjust the nature of your treatment based on your body's response. > While a psychosomatic reaction can not be ruled out, nevertheless you > had a REAL (and severe) reaction which warrants immediate concern. I > suggest you decide if this " healer " is right for you. > > -Matt > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tedd " <tguenzel@c...> wrote: > > > > I had acupuncture and was prescribed > > herbal medication for many problems. > > The acupuncture worked great! But I > > took the herbal medication and had two > > reactions.I have gastritis and the reaction > > after 1 minute was bad. I waited for the > > herbs to start working, about 1 hour and I started shaking > > very very bad at 1/4 the dose recommended. If > > I took the full dose I would have been in the ER. > > I talked to my oriental healer and said it was all > > in my head.How does an orenital healer perscribe herbs > > to someone like me. Please help. I am diagnosed as > > Heat-Damp-with kidney dysfunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 hyldemoer wrote: > > tedd <tguenzel@c...> wrote: > > No, > > Just that at those points, it helps with cfs the best I heard. > > > #4 > There are some practices commonly accepted in Chinese medicine that > are not legal to do in every state of the USA. > > Writting the Western medicine name of your health adventure in the > records as what they are treating you for rather than using the Asian > medical vocabulary is enough to get a practitioner in trouble in some > places. > > My craft is the Japanese interpretation of Asian bodywork > therapy called shiatsu. > I could go to jail for touching you at CV1 and/or GV1. >>>> That should not be right by law because I can if I wish to get a penis pericing in my town and that would mean a direct placement of the pericers hand on my genitalia. No I don't want one but it does not make sense that an acupuncturist could not needle CV-1. And to do so would not be touching any genitalia. I'll have to learn to do this my self.<<<< > > > You wouldn't be lieing on my futon for very long if you asked me to. > > #5 > Malpractice insurance is invalid when doing something that is illegal. > > #6 > If you're not happy with the treatment from one practitioner, shop > around. >>>The one I go to is the lest expensive around.<<<<< > > > > > #7 > Do you know where CV1 and GV1 are? >>>Yes, but i'm waiting for my 7 books on acupuncture to learn the needling depth and angle.<<< > > If you really want to follow an arbitrary " cook book " additude to > your therapy, might you first want to try self application of > acupressure? > > Penel Thanks, Tedd > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Thank you, #1 Gastritis is like having 2 layers of skin removed from any part of your body and then putting salt on the wound. So my diet is extremely bland. If I drink soda I get a very strong gastritis reaction. My stomach is very raw. #2 Now when the herbs starting taking effect, I started shaking very badly. If I build up to these, taking a little a a time, after a week or two to full dose, It will be the same reactions. I take herb belladona , hyoscyamine prescription, to calm my stomach in order to eat If I did not take this I would not eat at ALL. Thank you, Tedd vinod3x3 wrote: > > This posting on herbal reaction brings up interesting points. It is > actually quite common for people to have stomach upset when taking > herbal formulas for the first time. Usually it simply means that the > persons stomach is not prepared to accept the strength of the formula > given - this is easily corrected by taking smaller doses of the > formula for a few days - eg. either dilute and or taken in small > doses several times during the day. Many with weak stomach energy > have trouble digesting strong substances. Of course it can not be > ruled out that the formula is not correct for the syndrome the > patient is suffering from. There are many things that can cause > stomach upset when taking herbal formulas. Examples are cold stomach > energy - another is incompatabilities such as the incompatability of > many tonic herbs which are to strong for the patients body - another > is such common issues as taking acidic substances with such herbs as > ginseng or ho sho wu - which will cause stomach cramps in those with > weak stomach energy. > > The interesting issue is the one about the practioners reaction to > this problem. Any practioner who blames a reaction to herbs or any > other therapy on the patient can not be thought of as a physician. > Especially to blame the problem on psychological problems is the > tactic of a second rate business man who wants to avoid the issue of > why the products do not work properly. This is not the posture of a > doctor this is simple business man attitudes. Perhaps the doctor does > not want to except responsabilty for prescribing a medicine that was > not compatable with the patient - or maybe the doctor wants an excuse > in case the patient wants refund of their money for a formula that is > of no use to them. No real doctor practices medicine in this manner. > > This so called doctor's attitude toward the patient is amply revealed > in the assertion that this is a psychosomatic problem implying that > psychological states are not also real and a part of the patients > disease picture. Any doctor who does not clearly understand the > patient and all levels of their disease including the psychological > simply does not understand anything about the human condition. A > patients psychological states and sensitivites must always be > considered in prescribing treatments. These are not imaginary > symptoms these are real symptoms - why do some people think the mind > is not real? The mind in my opinion is the most precise instrument to > use in diagnosing any case. Observation of the patients reactive > states - postures and attitudes - reveal a wealth of information > about the syndrome the patient is suffering from. Many are not good > at taking the pulse as an example but most can clearly see that the > affect of the patient is either under expressed or over expressed - > or that the patient has upward moving evil liver wind (anger, > irritablity, irrationality, etc,) - observation of the patients > mental state is an essential part of diagnosis. Many great physicians > can easily diagnose the patients from looking at them without ever > asking any questions about symptoms. > > I once knew an old style doctor who could diagnose the disease from > smelling of the patient - he practiced in LA and had many patients > that he could not talk to because of his very poor English - this was > not important to him - he simply looked at the tounge - smelled the > breath - smelled under the armpits - smelled the ears - he looked > closely at the patient and wrote the prescription. He is gone now and > unfortunately there are few doctors around today who understand > disease to the this level. Yet this level is essential to being a > true doctor. There is a doctor at Dharmasala in India who is > associated with the Delhi Lama who can masterfully diagnose any case > without ever seeing the patient - he is a master at urine diagnosis > and needs no other information than a glass of the patients urine. > Listening to long lists of symptoms is much less useful than the > experience and understanding of the doctors observational abilities. > Personality (personality is not an illusion it is a mirror of the > patients internal state)reveals everything about the patient > including their hypersensativityto herbs. > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Matt " <ethereal_seas> > wrote: > > > > If you had that bad of a reaction to the herbs and your " healer " > told > > you it was all in your head then you need to get another healer. > > Anyone who offers you help should be sympathetic to the symptoms > you > > are having both from your condition and its treatment, and should > > adjust the nature of your treatment based on your body's response. > > While a psychosomatic reaction can not be ruled out, nevertheless > you > > had a REAL (and severe) reaction which warrants immediate concern. > I > > suggest you decide if this " healer " is right for you. > > > > -Matt > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tedd " <tguenzel@c...> wrote: > > > > > > I had acupuncture and was prescribed > > > herbal medication for many problems. > > > The acupuncture worked great! But I > > > took the herbal medication and had two > > > reactions.I have gastritis and the reaction > > > after 1 minute was bad. I waited for the > > > herbs to start working, about 1 hour and I started shaking > > > very very bad at 1/4 the dose recommended. If > > > I took the full dose I would have been in the ER. > > > I talked to my oriental healer and said it was all > > > in my head.How does an orenital healer perscribe herbs > > > to someone like me. Please help. I am diagnosed as > > > Heat-Damp-with kidney dysfunction. > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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