Digest Number 1060

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/15/04 6:31:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Chinese Traditional Medicine writes:

 

 

> I can only assume that given I don't seem to get any indications from all

> of the tests I have had from my M.D. that I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrom or

> Lupus or Epstein Barr or something along those lines. . . .

>

>

These things are generally charaterized as " mixed connective tissue disease "

by Allopathic physicians, and treateat with anitmalarials and Nsaids, did they

not offer you that help? Personally I have found ,from my own experience with

this disease that detox and diet have a lot to do with how you feel and how

well you can manage your symptoms.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , topshelf@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/15/04 6:31:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> Chinese Traditional Medicine writes:

>

>

> > (Fresh ginger

> > Warms the Exterior.)

> >

>

> That bit of info helps a lot I have been usingf fresh ginger daily

in a tea

> for warming and to aid digestion. when I used the dried powdered

ginger it

> didn't have the same fire that the fresh ginger did , guess I'll

switch back

> LOL, Thanks

 

That's odd... I thought powdered ginger was hotter than fresh. Or is

it that dried ginger is different from powdered?

 

sue

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/17/2004 11:55:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

victoria_dragon writes:

That's odd... I thought powdered ginger was hotter than fresh. Or

is

> it that dried ginger is different from powdered?

Dried ginger Gan Jiang is acrid, hot

 

Fresh ginger Sheng Jiang is acrid warm

 

You are CORRECT you get to pass GO and collect $200.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> That's odd... I thought powdered ginger was hotter than fresh. Or

is

> it that dried ginger is different from powdered?

 

The thermal energy of dried ginger is Hot; the thermal energy of

fresh ginger is Warm. (For those new to TCM, the thermal energy of a

herb or food is the warming or cooling or neutral effect it has on

the body.)

 

Processing the ginger to powder like one buys in the supermarket may

change its properties. Or, if a person's problems primarily are

Exterior, the fresh ginger would have more of a noticable effect than

the dried ginger (which primarily effects the Interior of the body

(i.e. the trunk of the body, the Organs).

 

Also, the way one prepares the herb can make a difference. Powdered

ginger taken in capsules may not have the same effect as powdered

ginger stirred into a cup of hot water. I know the way I take

cayenne makes a big difference for me. When I tried it in capsules, I

didn't get as much of an effect as when I put it into food like

homemade chili. But some people get plenty of help from the capsules.

For me it works better when cooked in food.

 

For those new to TCM, the Exterior of the body is the head, neck,

arms, legs, shoulders, skin, muscles, bones, and meridians. The term

Interior refers to the trunk of the body, the Organs. In general,

Interior conditions are more serious and take longer to treat than

Exterior conditions. But, having said that, this does not mean that

Exterior conditions can't be extremely painful and debilitating.

Just ask sufferers of Bi Syndrome, aka Painful Obstruction Syndrome,

aka arthritis and rheumatism. Sometimes, both Exterior and Interior

imbalances are present. Like when certain Interior imbalances like

Blood and Qi Deficiency pave the way for and/or make Bi Syndrome more

entrenched than it would be.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/17/04 8:24:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,

qiuser2 writes:

 

 

> That's odd... I thought powdered ginger was hotter than fresh. Or is

> it that dried ginger is different from powdered?

>

> sue

>

 

Do dried ginger and powdered ginger have different properties? does anyone

know of a good resource that identifies whether an herb is hot or cold?

Is anyone out there familiar with ayurvedic or tibb medicine and that there

are discrepencies in some of the items that are deemed hot or cold. i.e

Bannanas are hot and dry in Tibb medicine and cold in TCM. How it the nature of

the

product determined and what criteria does a practitioner use when faced with

the dilemma,is there empirical evidence or is the decision made based on one's

belief systom?

Rabiah

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I thought that dried was hotter than fresh, too. I can't tolerate dried...but I

can eat fresh root, I can nibble off little pieces of the root. I think it

tastes citrus-like in tea, but dried isn't anything like citrus.

Michelle

 

[Guest guest]

--- does anyone

> know of a good resource that identifies whether an herb is hot or

cold?

 

Any TCM Materia Medica lists the thermal energy properties of all

healing listed substances in it. Also the flavor(s) of the substances

and Organs/Meridians that they have an affinity for. I use Bensky

and Gamble's Materia Medica.

 

> Is anyone out there familiar with ayurvedic or tibb medicine and

that there

> are discrepencies in some of the items that are deemed hot or cold.

i.e

> Bannanas are hot and dry in Tibb medicine and cold in TCM. How it

the nature of the

> product determined and what criteria does a practitioner use when

faced with

> the dilemma,is there empirical evidence or is the decision made

based on one's

> belief systom?

 

I didn't know about the discrepencies concerning bananas. The way a

food (or herb) is prepared will affect the thermal energy. Steaming

food tends to make it more Yin; frying or baking tends to make it

more Yang.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/18/04 12:12:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

victoria_dragon writes:

 

 

> The way a

> food (or herb) is prepared will affect the thermal energy. Steaming

> food tends to make it more Yin; frying or baking tends to make it

> more Yang.

>

 

Thanks I didn't know that

Rabiah

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/18/04 10:15:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,

victoria_dragon writes:

 

 

> Cinnamon bark warms the Interior and expels Cold; cinnamon twigs

> release Wind Cold in the Exterior.

>

>

> Funny you should mention cinnamon As I just was thinking about it this

morning

I have been using cinnamon bark, but I am wondering if I should use the bark

and the twig to address both issues, for a balance, orwould the actions of

the herbs cancel each other out.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> > The way a

> > food (or herb) is prepared will affect the thermal energy.

Steaming

> > food tends to make it more Yin; frying or baking tends to make it

> > more Yang.

 

The part of the plant also can make a difference. For example,

the " leaves " of the ephedra plant have properties that are the

opposite of the root of ephedra. That is why Western pharmaceutical

names contain the part of the plant used. Radix - root. Semen - seed.

Cortex - bark. Ramulus - twig. Etc.

 

You probably already know about this as you already have a background

in Western herbalism. But some of the other readers new to herbalism

might not.

 

The part of the plant (or animal) used can make a difference.

Getting back to the ephedra example. Herba Ephedrae (the part growing

above ground), aka Ma Huang, is used to release Exterior Wind Cold.

Among its other properties, it induces sweating. It's thermal enegy

is warm, and its taste is spicey and slightly bitter. It targets the

Lungs and Urinary Bladder.

 

But Radix (root of) Ephedrae, aka Ma Huang Gen, has a neutral thermal

energy and its taste is sweet. It targets the Heart and Lungs. BUT,

the most important thing is that whereas Herba Ephedrae induces

sweating, Radix Ephedrae stops it. It's classified as an astringent

herb. Because of the opposite properties, these are two one

definitely doesn't want to get mixed up.

 

BTW, In TCM Ma Huang is NEVER used for weight loss. Besides being

potentionally lethal when misused, it can worsen the underlying cause

of the obesity. (In cases where the Root of the obesity is Qi

Deficiency. Ma Huang scatters Qi. Sweating excessively will weaken

Qi.)

 

Cinnamon bark warms the Interior and expels Cold; cinnamon twigs

release Wind Cold in the Exterior.

[Guest guest]

how long does it take to learn all thsi stuff?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> > Cinnamon bark warms the Interior and expels Cold; cinnamon twigs

> > release Wind Cold in the Exterior.

> >

> >

> > Funny you should mention cinnamon As I just was thinking about it

this

> morning

> I have been using cinnamon bark, but I am wondering if I should use

the bark

> and the twig to address both issues, for a balance, orwould the

actions of

> the herbs cancel each other out.

 

They won't cancel each other out. They might both be used when a

person has both Interior and Exterior Cold. I've used both at the

same time though in different formulas. The long-term Kidney Yang

Deficiency resulted in me being very cold on the inside. And the

long-term Kidney Yang Deficiency and Defensive Qi Deficiency made me

very vulnerable to Wind Cold. The two " fed " off each other in a

snowballing situation. The weak Protective Qi and K Yang Deficiency

made me more vulnerable to invasion by Wind Cold. The Wind Cold

further decreased Yang and weakened the Spleen. This led to more

vulnerability to Exterior Cold (and Wind).

 

Cold damages Yang (just as Heat can damage Yin). Yang warms,

activates, and dries; Yin cools, calms, and moistens. The Kidneys

are most vulnerable to Cold, and the Kidneys are the source of Yang

(and Yin) for the rest of the body. The Spleen is most vulnerable to

Dampness (and likes Dryness), but the Spleen also is weakened by

Cold. Though Defensive Qi is under the control of the Lungs, the

Spleen plays a key role in accumulating Qi to the body. The food

is " rotted " and " ripened " in the Stomach, but its a function of the

Spleen to extract the " Grain Qi " from the food in the Stoamch and

carry it to the Lungs where it mixes with the Air Qi extracted from

the air to become part of the Qi of the body, including Defensive Qi.

 

Defensive Qi circulates at the surface of the body, and gives

increased resistence to " Pernicious Evils " (Wind, Cold, Heat,

Dampness, and Dryness). Weak Protective Qi is the most common reason

for subceptibility to Exterior Evils invading, but long-term Kidney

Yang Deficiency also can make a person more vulnerable as can long-

term Blood Deficiency. (The TCM concept of Blood is different from

anatomical blood. Blood " moistens " and " nourishes " the tissues.)

[Guest guest]

Hi

Studying is really a life long activity. Chinese Herbalogy

is usually studied after you have had a year of formal schooling where you

have learned TCM concepts of diagnosis. It takes a 3-4 year course of time.

You

not only study individual herbal functions but how they fit together in a

formula. For instance there are various parts of formulas, primary herbs,

secondary herbs, herbs that carry the formula to the part of the body you want

it to

go to as well as herbs which modify the negative side effects of the herbs in

the formula. In addition you have to consider how the herb formula intakes

with any western herbs, vitamins or medications you may have been taking. In

Chinese medicine you take a " snapshot " of the person at the time of the

interview and do you r diagnosis from that snapshot. It can change from

practically

moment to moment. For instance we have all had colds which change very

rapidly, the color of our sinus discharge, how feverish you feel, coughing

strength

and frequency, all of these things would change which herbs or which formulas a

person would take.

In addition to the two books I mentioned on an earlier email, there are four

books by Peter Holmes (Jade Remedies on Chinese herbs and The energetics of

Western Herbs) which I think are more user friendly than Dan Benseky's books on

Chinese Herbs. (Dan was my teacher and is still one of the primary reference

books.) All of the books that I have mentioned are available at

Redwingbooks.com(I am not sure if that is the exact address but it something

close to that.

There is also a school in Colorado- I think it is called Rocky Mountain Herbs

where you go for intense weekend seminars for a year and a half which teaches

Chinese herbs and diagnosis. The people I know who have gone there are

already acupuncturists and though it was hard but good.

Good Luck

Shad Reinstein

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/04 10:32:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

victoria_dragon writes:

 

 

> You're at that stage where you're thinking more

> about what you don't know than what you already know.

>

>

 

You're absolutely right about that keep running into challenges and people

who want me to explain why and how this or that herb works for a particular

ailment. Traditionally speaking , how long would a student apprentice before

being

unleashed on the public. I read somewhere that traditionally patients are not

supposed to question the therapist just accept the diagnosis and do as they

are told. thaht would never work here (in America) I am not like that, never

have been.

Thanks for the encouragment

Rabiah

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> how long does it take to learn all thsi stuff?

 

You've already picked up quite a bit of the basics though it doesn't

seem that way to you. You're at that stage where you're thinking more

about what you don't know than what you already know.

 

A few more basics for the overall framework, and it will start

falling into place for you. Actually, I suspect some of it already is

falling into place for you.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

> There is also a school in Colorado- I think it is called Rocky

Mountain Herbs

> where you go for intense weekend seminars for a year and a half

which teaches

> Chinese herbs and diagnosis. The people I know who have gone there

are

> already acupuncturists and though it was hard but good.

 

I would suggest please make sure it's not a school with a similar

name located in Montana as I took their correspondence course, and it

was worse than a waste of money. The school looks real good on the

surface, but the reality was instructors who didn't know what they

were doing, didn't even know the material in the texts, etc. It was

so bad I tried to get my money back, but alas Montana is one of

those " buyer beware " states. I believe it's the only state in the US

that doesn't have even one BBB (Better Business Bureau) office in the

entire state. BTW, since that time I have refused to buy anything

manufactured in or offered by a company or " school " located in that

state.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I know there are two different schools with a similar name. The people

I know went to the one in Colorado and it was definitely worth their while.

Shad

[Guest guest]

I started out 25 years ago studying western herbs with other women I knew.

Then 15 years ago went to school to get my credentials so I could have a real

practice. I still feel good when something works well only the things get more

and more complicated. You have to start thinking about how do you treat the

root and how you treat the manifestations. Herb, acupuncture and acupressure

treatments all have to include these two things to be successful. Most (but

not all) western treatments that I have seen focus more on one than the other.

One thing that you might do to start treating people is to study Jin Shin Do

acupressure. It is totally based in TCM and depending on the license for

massage in your state, is a relatively quick way to start working and earning

money. I would focus on learning tongue diagnosis it's easier to learn on your

own

than pulses.

Shad Reinstein

[Guest guest]

Thanks Shad,

tongue diagnosis is really what got me into this and that is exactly what I

have been looking into. I had Letha Hadady's book on my shelf for years " Asian

Health Secrets " , but I didn't read it until I got very sick was bringing up

everything for a whole month and could not get any relief even the allopathic

meds phenegran didn't work. I was starving and dehydrating.None of the wetern

herbs I took worked either. So I made up My mind I was dying and I would just

lay in bed and read until I did. Fortunately for me I picked her book to read

. That was three years ago . I followed her advice about diet and devoured

all the info I could about tongue dianosis, which is scant in that book, but I

got better. Then I quickly reverted to my old ways because I was scared that

TCM was too complicated for me to learn . But each time something came up I

couldn't fix with Western Herbs I'd get her book out and guess what it worked.

I

started having more successes with Tcm and of course it just made more sence

to follow that path so here I am.

I have never heard of Jin Shin Do before but I will be researching it from

this point on. I realy feel blessed and directed to be getting all this good

advice and help here.

At one point I was feeling like I had made a mistake with trying to be a

healer, because I felt so limited with the western herbal methodolgy.

Rabiah

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

An Apprenticeship ! What an excellent idea! okay I am really getting quite an

education here. Thanks

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> and how would I learn to do pulse diagnosis and other

> hands on things.

 

When you're comfortable with the basics and after you familiarize

yourself with the various TCM imbalances, you may be able to

apprentice with a TCM healer near you to at least learn pulse

diagnosis and some of the finer points of tongue diagnosis.

 

At least one person on here, Tarotdog, is learning via apprenticeship.

 

You can start learning a little bit of pulse diagnosis now. Start

with what is easiest. Like learning to recognize a fast and slow

pulse. Fast usually means Heat, and Slow usually means Cold. (Think

of nature where cold slows everything down.) The exception to a slow

pulse is being a conditioned athelete. They will have slow pulses

without there being cold. There are some things that can speed up

the pulse besides heat. Like some cases of obesity. (Not all.)

 

When have practiced enough that you feel comfortable recognizing a

normal, a slow, and a fast pulse, start learning about a floating

pulse and a deep pulse. A floating pulse is one that can be felt with

a very light pressure. You have to use pressure to feel a deep

pulse. It's near the bone.

 

In general, a floating pulse indicates an Exterior condition. The

problem is in the head, neck, shoulders, arms, legs, skin, muscles,

bones, or meridians. Like arthritis or Bi Syndrome (aka Painful

Obstruction Syndrome).

 

A deep pulse indicates it's an Interior problem (in the trunk,

particularly in the Yin Organs (Liver, Heart, Spleen, Lungs, Kidneys,

or Pericardium.))

 

There are some finer points in what you can tell from a floating

pulse and a deep pulse, but I won't go into that here. I do want to

mention that there are some Interior conditions which will sometimes

(rare) show a floating pulse. These are anemia or cancer. What is

happening in these cases from a TCM standpoint is that Qi is so

Deficient it has " floated " to the surface. This causes the floating

pulse in these cases.

 

The same " start with the easiest " applies to learning tonuge

diagnosis too. A normal tongue tissue is dark pink or pale red. Red

indicates Heat; pale or blue, Cold; purple, Blood Stasis. Reddish

purple is Blood Stasis with Heat; Bluish purple is Blood Stasis with

Cold. There are some exceptions, but in general these are the usual

meanings. The tongue tissue may not be a uniform color. Different

parts of the tongue can pinpoint the area of the body. For example,

some people's tongues may be normal in color or may be pale or bluish

(indicating Cold) but the tip of the tongue is too red. This

indicates Heat in the Lungs and Heart (Upper Burner).

 

Start examining your own tongue and those of family members. Just

don't leave the tongue out too long as this can change some aspects

of it.

 

Victoria