Clearing the confusion regarding combining Budwig and Oleander

[Guest guest]

A member emailed me privately that they believed that a major reason the Budwig folks do not recommend oleander is that Budwig helps restore proper respiration (oxygen) to cancer cells to return them to normal whereas it is believed that oleander attacks and kills cancer cells.

Contrary to what some people mistakenly believe about oleander due to it's normal toxicity in raw plant form, oleander DOES NOT attack and kill cancer cells by poisoning them. Oleander causes cancer cell death alright, but it does so in the ways nature intended. First of all, oleander tremendously stimulates the immune system which enables it to fight cancer as it is intended to do as the body's first line of defense against disease. Secondly oleander enables cancer cells to die off in the manner cells are supposed to die via inducing apoptosis, which is the programmed cell death of healthy cells that die and are replaced that is interrupted when the cells change to cancer cells and refuse to die and begin multiplying. Thirdly, oleander also induces and enhances autophagy, which is the natural degradation of healthy cells that also leads to their death. And finally, oleander also prevents cancer cells from multiplying into more cancer cells.

If oleander acted as a poison, which is what chemo essentially does, then it would also have some negative effects on healthy cells, but no such effect has ever been observed.

Budwig also enables cancer cells to resume programmed cell death and, presumably, cell death via normal degradation . Obviously the only way tumors disappear when using Budwig is that the cells that made up the tumor die and are not replaced. Essentially the same thing happens with oleander.

In my opinion the two can only enhance one another and I see no reason whatsoever that oleander and Budwig would not be compatible.

Tony

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

 

I'm not sure why, but this email was the most enlightening to me in

terms of understanding oleander. I've got a couple of questions. In

that oleander acts as a super immune booster, I would think it would

be helpful for ailments other than cancer? I've taken a look at the

new website and scrolled through a couple of studies but I've not come

across recommendations to use oleander for anything else.

 

Reason I ask is that my good friend and neighbour is off to South

Africa and is interested in taking OPC for an ailment. Not that going

to South Africa has anything to do with that but she was instantly

alert when I told her that OPC is made in South Africa. Got her

attention now...don't want to lose momentum.

 

She's a curious, open person and will take it if I can provide her

with something to read about its effects on other things.

 

I think you and take it as a daily immune enhancer? Just

wondering why. I have often thought that when my kids get sick I

should wait to see if their own immune systems will do the job. We

are not encumbered by schedules because they don't go to school and I

only work 2 hours a day and I'm free to stay home as many days as my

kids are sick. I use remedies when I feel they are suffering (like

multiple bouts of vomiting - or pain). Ultimately the illness will

run its course and the immune system will be stronger, unless I'm

totally out to lunch.

 

I'm not suggesting that I would give them oleander but I apply that

same thinking to myself and my hubby. However, I'm on the fence about

my own immune system since I'm in my 40's and experiencing hormonal

fluctuations and very mindful of the breast cancer rates. I would

describe myself as being rather " obsessed " with being healthy.

 

Off to look at website in more detail,

 

Kind regards,

Janet

[Guest guest]

oleander soup , " Tony " wrote:

>

>

> A member emailed me privately that they believed that a major

reason the

> Budwig folks do not recommend oleander is that Budwig helps restore

> proper respiration (oxygen) to cancer cells to return them to normal

> whereas it is believed that oleander attacks and kills cancer cells.

> > >

I am a memeber of the flaxseedoil2, which is moderated

by Sandra Olson, and is for following the Budwig Protocol. Sandra

recently advised a member to stop taking the sutherlandia OPC,

because he had been slipping in health and she felt it could be

because the OPC was interfering with the Budiwg Protocol. The reason

she gave was that Johanna Budwig said not to take large amounts of

antioxidants, as they interfere with the absorption or action in the

body of the flaxseedoil/quark mix. Sandra Olson said that

sutherlandia OPC is an antioxidant and therefore falls into the

category of what Budwig spoke against mixing with the flax/quark

diet. To tell the truth, many of us are confused as to what

interferes with Budwig and what enhances it. I also believe that

there is no one available who truly understands the science, or who

is carrying on the work of J Budwig, to inform us as to what to take

and not take. I do tend to believe in what you say, Tony, that

oleander, or sutherlandia OPC enhances any protocol, as it is a

natural plant which seems to simply boost the body's own

defense/immmune system. However, as a lay person I do feel unsure as

to what happens in the body when ingesting the flax/quark mix, and

whether many supplements-even Oleander--should be taken some time

apart from the Budwig mix. For example also, I take tumeric, cayenne

pepper and ground black pepper mixed in with my servings of flax and

cottage cheese; and I don't know if I am interfering with the work

of the flax/cottage cheese mix. Again, a moderator at the Budwig

told me I should not take much tumeric as its an

antioxidant.

Just to add also, many members of the of Budwig protocol

followers are indeed taking the Sutherlandia OPC.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

Budwig is dead and her writings were incomplete. There are

apparently huge holes in the overall knowledge base, and nobody knows

for sure what works and what doesn't work.

 

The mods on the Budwig newsgroup seem to say repeatedly quite simply

not to deviate from what is known -- in other words do not do

ANYTHING that was not specified by Budwig. Don't eat, breathe, or

sleep unless she said it was okay. Always tie your right shoelace

before your left shoelace. Touch the doorknob exactly four times,

and rinse your hands 3 times, touching the hot water handle twice and

the cold water handle once.

 

I'm exaggerating of course, but I really don't think it is an

exaggeration that they will tell you to do exactly what Budwig said

with NO DEVIATION. This certainly doesn't leave any room for

exploration!

 

I wish I knew for sure too. I just want to do what is best.

 

oleander soup , " culver_z " <culver_z wrote:

>

> oleander soup , " Tony " @> wrote:

> >

> >

> > A member emailed me privately that they believed that a major

> reason the

> > Budwig folks do not recommend oleander is that Budwig helps

restore

> > proper respiration (oxygen) to cancer cells to return them to

normal

> > whereas it is believed that oleander attacks and kills cancer

cells.

> > > > >

> I am a memeber of the flaxseedoil2, which is

moderated

> by Sandra Olson, and is for following the Budwig Protocol. Sandra

> recently advised a member to stop taking the sutherlandia OPC,

> because he had been slipping in health and she felt it could be

> because the OPC was interfering with the Budiwg Protocol. The

reason

> she gave was that Johanna Budwig said not to take large amounts of

> antioxidants, as they interfere with the absorption or action in

the

> body of the flaxseedoil/quark mix. Sandra Olson said that

> sutherlandia OPC is an antioxidant and therefore falls into the

> category of what Budwig spoke against mixing with the flax/quark

> diet. To tell the truth, many of us are confused as to what

> interferes with Budwig and what enhances it. I also believe that

> there is no one available who truly understands the science, or who

> is carrying on the work of J Budwig, to inform us as to what to

take

> and not take. I do tend to believe in what you say, Tony, that

> oleander, or sutherlandia OPC enhances any protocol, as it is a

> natural plant which seems to simply boost the body's own

> defense/immmune system. However, as a lay person I do feel unsure

as

> to what happens in the body when ingesting the flax/quark mix, and

> whether many supplements-even Oleander--should be taken some time

> apart from the Budwig mix. For example also, I take tumeric,

cayenne

> pepper and ground black pepper mixed in with my servings of flax

and

> cottage cheese; and I don't know if I am interfering with the

work

> of the flax/cottage cheese mix. Again, a moderator at the Budwig

> told me I should not take much tumeric as its an

> antioxidant.

> Just to add also, many members of the of Budwig

protocol

> followers are indeed taking the Sutherlandia OPC.

> Wayne

>

[Guest guest]

LOL!

As I said, I like the Budwig protocol - though the claimed 90% success rate is an exagerration in my estimation unless you look at all the qualifiers that are attached.

And, not to throw mud at an idol, but I have always had a chuckle when I see the "seven times Nobel Prize nominee". Wow, not even the Buffalo Bills got to the doorstep of the big game that many times without success.

Here is the rub: First of all they do not make nominations public for 50 years and the claim of multiple nominations has been going around a long time. A few years ago, btw, it was six-times Nobel nominee. Did she get nominated again posthumously or what?

And finally, anyone can nominate someone for a Nobel Prize provided it is in Peace or Literature. Maybe I could get one of you to nominate me each year for a few years and I could be five-time Nobel Prize nominee Tony Isaacs?

I seriously really would like to see proof of the seven or six nominations so I would know whether or not I was accurately describing her if I include that bit.

Anyway, poking fun aside, I like Budwig and wish some of her followers who own and moderate forums were not so strict as to exclude things that could help.

Now, I better go before I stir up some trouble. Nothing worse than a bunch of stirred up Budwiggers. Unless maybe it were stirred up MMS'ers. Or Vegans. No, wait, I did NOT say that . . . .

 

oleander soup , "jrrjim" <jim.mcelroy10 wrote:>> Budwig is dead and her writings were incomplete. There are > apparently huge holes in the overall knowledge base, and nobody knows > for sure what works and what doesn't work.> > The mods on the Budwig newsgroup seem to say repeatedly quite simply > not to deviate from what is known -- in other words do not do > ANYTHING that was not specified by Budwig. Don't eat, breathe, or > sleep unless she said it was okay. Always tie your right shoelace > before your left shoelace. Touch the doorknob exactly four times, > and rinse your hands 3 times, touching the hot water handle twice and > the cold water handle once. > > I'm exaggerating of course, but I really don't think it is an > exaggeration that they will tell you to do exactly what Budwig said > with NO DEVIATION. This certainly doesn't leave any room for > exploration!> > I wish I knew for sure too. I just want to do what is best. > > oleander soup , "culver_z" culver_z@ wrote:> >> > oleander soup , "Tony" @> wrote:> > >> > > > > > A member emailed me privately that they believed that a major > > reason the> > > Budwig folks do not recommend oleander is that Budwig helps > restore> > > proper respiration (oxygen) to cancer cells to return them to > normal> > > whereas it is believed that oleander attacks and kills cancer > cells.> > > > Tony> > >> > I am a memeber of the flaxseedoil2, which is > moderated > > by Sandra Olson, and is for following the Budwig Protocol. Sandra > > recently advised a member to stop taking the sutherlandia OPC, > > because he had been slipping in health and she felt it could be > > because the OPC was interfering with the Budiwg Protocol. The > reason > > she gave was that Johanna Budwig said not to take large amounts of > > antioxidants, as they interfere with the absorption or action in > the > > body of the flaxseedoil/quark mix. Sandra Olson said that > > sutherlandia OPC is an antioxidant and therefore falls into the > > category of what Budwig spoke against mixing with the flax/quark > > diet. To tell the truth, many of us are confused as to what > > interferes with Budwig and what enhances it. I also believe that > > there is no one available who truly understands the science, or who > > is carrying on the work of J Budwig, to inform us as to what to > take > > and not take. I do tend to believe in what you say, Tony, that > > oleander, or sutherlandia OPC enhances any protocol, as it is a > > natural plant which seems to simply boost the body's own > > defense/immmune system. However, as a lay person I do feel unsure > as > > to what happens in the body when ingesting the flax/quark mix, and > > whether many supplements-even Oleander--should be taken some time > > apart from the Budwig mix. For example also, I take tumeric, > cayenne > > pepper and ground black pepper mixed in with my servings of flax > and > > cottage cheese; and I don't know if I am interfering with the > work > > of the flax/cottage cheese mix. Again, a moderator at the Budwig > > told me I should not take much tumeric as its an > > antioxidant.> > Just to add also, many members of the of Budwig > protocol > > followers are indeed taking the Sutherlandia OPC.> > Wayne> >>

[Guest guest]

Tony, what is your opinion about oleander and artemisinin?

Artemisinin DOES attack cancer cells directly, blowing them to

smithereens. When the arte hits the iron in the cancer cells, all

sorts of free radicals cut loose and murder the cancer cells. (Or so

they say).

 

This isn't exactly the slow return to normal function that Budwig and

oleander claim to induce. Can both approaches be used at the same

time? Maybe the arte can pick off many of the cancer cells, and the

ones that don't respond to it might be affected by the oleander and

Budwig?

 

oleander soup , " Tony " wrote:

>

>

> A member emailed me privately that they believed that a major

reason the

> Budwig folks do not recommend oleander is that Budwig helps restore

> proper respiration (oxygen) to cancer cells to return them to normal

> whereas it is believed that oleander attacks and kills cancer cells.

>

> Contrary to what some people mistakenly believe about oleander due

to

> it's normal toxicity in raw plant form, oleander DOES NOT attack and

> kill cancer cells by poisoning them. Oleander causes cancer cell

death

> alright, but it does so in the ways nature intended. First of all,

> oleander tremendously stimulates the immune system which enables it

to

> fight cancer as it is intended to do as the body's first line of

defense

> against disease. Secondly oleander enables cancer cells to die

off in

> the manner cells are supposed to die via inducing apoptosis, which

is

> the programmed cell death of healthy cells that die and are replaced

> that is interrupted when the cells change to cancer cells and

refuse to

> die and begin multiplying. Thirdly, oleander also induces and

enhances

> autophagy, which is the natural degradation of healthy cells that

also

> leads to their death. And finally, oleander also prevents cancer

cells

> from multiplying into more cancer cells.

>

> If oleander acted as a poison, which is what chemo essentially does,

> then it would also have some negative effects on healthy cells, but

no

> such effect has ever been observed.

>

> Budwig also enables cancer cells to resume programmed cell death

and,

> presumably, cell death via normal degradation . Obviously the only

way

> tumors disappear when using Budwig is that the cells that made up

the

> tumor die and are not replaced. Essentially the same thing happens

with

> oleander.

>

> In my opinion the two can only enhance one another and I see no

reason

> whatsoever that oleander and Budwig would not be compatible.

>

> >