Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 As some of you may remember by PSA jumped from 30 to 630 in 3 months last Dec. I was taking about 4 OPC pills a day for some of that time trying to work up to 6 a day. I started taking the Casodex again because, even though I don't want to take it, it seems to be the only thing that has helped in the past. I was able to get up to 6 OPC pills a day and did 1 liver cleanse. I also started on a mostly vegetarian diet. My PSA as of Tuesday was 623. The good news is it stopped getting worse and even went down slightly. The bad news is I can't credit OPC with that because I started taking the Casodex again and I am on Lupron. The odd thing for me is I started feeling better almost the day I got my dosage of OPC up to 6 pills a day. I also have no pain. I was starting to have some bone pain back in December. This seems odd to me that I would feel significantly better and yet have marginal improvement in my numbers. Any thoughts or comments? Thanks in advance, Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hi Carl, I'm glad to hear your PSA has stabilized again. However, both the Casodex and Lupron affect the glutathione levels in your cells. This, in the long term, will change the TH1 to TH2 ratio of CD4 cells in your body with a gradual over preponderance of TH2 cells. As TH1 immune cells are responsible for intracellular protection, this can eventually lead to fungal infections that do not respond to antibiotics. Whether you decide to continue taking the Casodex/Lupron or not, it is VERY important to take between 3 and 10 gm of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) per day to assist the body in synthesizing its own glutathione. All cancer patients already have a shortage of glutathione in their bodies and it is thus important not to aggravate the situation. Regards, Marc Swanepoel - Carl Fritch oleander soup Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:57 PM update and request for thoughts and comments As some of you may remember by PSA jumped from 30 to 630 in 3 monthslast Dec.I was taking about 4 OPC pills a day for some of that time trying towork up to 6 a day.I started taking the Casodex again because, even though I don't wantto take it, it seems to be the only thing that has helped in the past.I was able to get up to 6 OPC pills a day and did 1 liver cleanse. Ialso started on a mostly vegetarian diet. My PSA as of Tuesday was 623.The good news is it stopped getting worse and even went down slightly.The bad news is I can't credit OPC with that because I started takingthe Casodex again and I am on Lupron.The odd thing for me is I started feeling better almost the day I gotmy dosage of OPC up to 6 pills a day. I also have no pain. I wasstarting to have some bone pain back in December.This seems odd to me that I would feel significantly better and yethave marginal improvement in my numbers.Any thoughts or comments?Thanks in advance,Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I read somewhere that there was some danger in taking NAC long term. I read that a safer alternative is to take whey isolate and to make sure that your other glutathione precursors are adequate. But I think this info came from a website pushing a specific brand of whey isolate. What is your take? oleander soup , " Marc Swanepoel - PhD " <marcswan wrote: > > Hi Carl, > I'm glad to hear your PSA has stabilized again. However, both the Casodex and Lupron affect the glutathione levels in your cells. This, in the long term, will change the TH1 to TH2 ratio of CD4 cells in your body with a gradual over preponderance of TH2 cells. As TH1 immune cells are responsible for intracellular protection, this can eventually lead to fungal infections that do not respond to antibiotics. Whether you decide to continue taking the Casodex/Lupron or not, it is VERY important to take between 3 and 10 gm of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) per day to assist the body in synthesizing its own glutathione. All cancer patients already have a shortage of glutathione in their bodies and it is thus important not to aggravate the situation. > Regards, > Marc Swanepoel > > - > Carl Fritch > oleander soup > Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:57 PM > update and request for thoughts and comments > > > As some of you may remember by PSA jumped from 30 to 630 in 3 months > last Dec. > > I was taking about 4 OPC pills a day for some of that time trying to > work up to 6 a day. > > I started taking the Casodex again because, even though I don't want > to take it, it seems to be the only thing that has helped in the past. > > I was able to get up to 6 OPC pills a day and did 1 liver cleanse. I > also started on a mostly vegetarian diet. > > My PSA as of Tuesday was 623. > > The good news is it stopped getting worse and even went down slightly. > The bad news is I can't credit OPC with that because I started taking > the Casodex again and I am on Lupron. > > The odd thing for me is I started feeling better almost the day I got > my dosage of OPC up to 6 pills a day. I also have no pain. I was > starting to have some bone pain back in December. > > This seems odd to me that I would feel significantly better and yet > have marginal improvement in my numbers. > > Any thoughts or comments? > > Thanks in advance, > Carl > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have read comments to the effect that long term use of NAC may deplete Zinc and Copper levels in the body but I cannot see any logical reason why this should happen and I have not seen any first hand research confirming this. See http://www.tasteforlife.com/content/default.asp?artid=1630 & title=NAC_Supports_Detox_and_More Marc Swanepoel - jrrjim oleander soup Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:39 PM Re: update and request for thoughts and comments I read somewhere that there was some danger in taking NAC long term. I read that a safer alternative is to take whey isolate and to make sure that your other glutathione precursors are adequate. But I think this info came from a website pushing a specific brand of whey isolate. What is your take?oleander soup , "Marc Swanepoel - PhD" <marcswan wrote:>> Hi Carl,> I'm glad to hear your PSA has stabilized again. However, both the Casodex and Lupron affect the glutathione levels in your cells. This, in the long term, will change the TH1 to TH2 ratio of CD4 cells in your body with a gradual over preponderance of TH2 cells. As TH1 immune cells are responsible for intracellular protection, this can eventually lead to fungal infections that do not respond to antibiotics. Whether you decide to continue taking the Casodex/Lupron or not, it is VERY important to take between 3 and 10 gm of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) per day to assist the body in synthesizing its own glutathione. All cancer patients already have a shortage of glutathione in their bodies and it is thus important not to aggravate the situation. > Regards,> Marc Swanepoel> > - > Carl Fritch > oleander soup > Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:57 PM> update and request for thoughts and comments> > > As some of you may remember by PSA jumped from 30 to 630 in 3 months> last Dec.> > I was taking about 4 OPC pills a day for some of that time trying to> work up to 6 a day.> > I started taking the Casodex again because, even though I don't want> to take it, it seems to be the only thing that has helped in the past.> > I was able to get up to 6 OPC pills a day and did 1 liver cleanse. I> also started on a mostly vegetarian diet. > > My PSA as of Tuesday was 623.> > The good news is it stopped getting worse and even went down slightly.> The bad news is I can't credit OPC with that because I started taking> the Casodex again and I am on Lupron.> > The odd thing for me is I started feeling better almost the day I got> my dosage of OPC up to 6 pills a day. I also have no pain. I was> starting to have some bone pain back in December.> > This seems odd to me that I would feel significantly better and yet> have marginal improvement in my numbers.> > Any thoughts or comments?> > Thanks in advance,> Carl> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 on the bottle of NAC, it recommends increasing vit C consumtion, because NAC could cause C depletion.--- On Thu, 1/22/09, Marc Swanepoel - PhD <marcswan wrote: Marc Swanepoel - PhD <marcswanRe: Re: update and request for thoughts and commentsoleander soup Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 2:01 PM I have read comments to the effect that long term use of NAC may deplete Zinc and Copper levels in the body but I cannot see any logical reason why this should happen and I have not seen any first hand research confirming this. See http://www.tastefor life.com/ content/default. asp?artid= 1630 & title=NAC_Supports_ Detox_and_ More Marc Swanepoel - jrrjim oleander soup Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:39 PM Re: update and request for thoughts and comments I read somewhere that there was some danger in taking NAC long term. I read that a safer alternative is to take whey isolate and to make sure that your other glutathione precursors are adequate. But I think this info came from a website pushing a specific brand of whey isolate. What is your take?oleander soup, "Marc Swanepoel - PhD" <marcswan@.. .> wrote:>> Hi Carl,> I'm glad to hear your PSA has stabilized again. However, both the Casodex and Lupron affect the glutathione levels in your cells. This, in the long term, will change the TH1 to TH2 ratio of CD4 cells in your body with a gradual over preponderance of TH2 cells. As TH1 immune cells are responsible for intracellular protection, this can eventually lead to fungal infections that do not respond to antibiotics. Whether you decide to continue taking the Casodex/Lupron or not, it is VERY important to take between 3 and 10 gm of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) per day to assist the body in synthesizing its own glutathione. All cancer patients already have a shortage of glutathione in their bodies and it is thus important not to aggravate the situation. > Regards,> Marc Swanepoel> > - > Carl Fritch > oleander soup > Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:57 PM> update and request for thoughts and comments> > > As some of you may remember by PSA jumped from 30 to 630 in 3 months> last Dec.> > I was taking about 4 OPC pills a day for some of that time trying to> work up to 6 a day.> > I started taking the Casodex again because, even though I don't want> to take it, it seems to be the only thing that has helped in the past.> > I was able to get up to 6 OPC pills a day and did 1 liver cleanse. I> also started on a mostly vegetarian diet. > > My PSA as of Tuesday was 623.> > The good news is it stopped getting worse and even went down slightly.> The bad news is I can't credit OPC with that because I started taking> the Casodex again and I am on Lupron.> > The odd thing for me is I started feeling better almost the day I got> my dosage of OPC up to 6 pills a day. I also have no pain. I was> starting to have some bone pain back in December.> > This seems odd to me that I would feel significantly better and yet> have marginal improvement in my numbers.> > Any thoughts or comments?> > Thanks in advance,> Carl> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hi Steve, I think it should have said 'Vitamin C improves the effectiveness of the NAC'. That is what my bottle of NAC says. I have not seen anything about Vitamin C depletion yet. Maybe there is some research in this area that I am not aware of. However, NAC is an antioxidant by itself so I cannot see how it would deplete the Vit C. Marc Swanepoel - Steve Cox oleander soup Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:17 PM Re: Re: update and request for thoughts and comments on the bottle of NAC, it recommends increasing vit C consumtion, because NAC could cause C depletion.--- On Thu, 1/22/09, Marc Swanepoel - PhD <marcswan (AT) global (DOT) co.za> wrote: Marc Swanepoel - PhD <marcswan (AT) global (DOT) co.za>Re: Re: update and request for thoughts and commentsoleander soup Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 2:01 PM I have read comments to the effect that long term use of NAC may deplete Zinc and Copper levels in the body but I cannot see any logical reason why this should happen and I have not seen any first hand research confirming this. See http://www.tastefor life.com/ content/default. asp?artid= 1630 & title=NAC_Supports_ Detox_and_ More Marc Swanepoel - jrrjim oleander soup Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:39 PM Re: update and request for thoughts and comments I read somewhere that there was some danger in taking NAC long term. I read that a safer alternative is to take whey isolate and to make sure that your other glutathione precursors are adequate. But I think this info came from a website pushing a specific brand of whey isolate. What is your take?oleander soup, "Marc Swanepoel - PhD" <marcswan@.. .> wrote:>> Hi Carl,> I'm glad to hear your PSA has stabilized again. However, both the Casodex and Lupron affect the glutathione levels in your cells. This, in the long term, will change the TH1 to TH2 ratio of CD4 cells in your body with a gradual over preponderance of TH2 cells. As TH1 immune cells are responsible for intracellular protection, this can eventually lead to fungal infections that do not respond to antibiotics. Whether you decide to continue taking the Casodex/Lupron or not, it is VERY important to take between 3 and 10 gm of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) per day to assist the body in synthesizing its own glutathione. All cancer patients already have a shortage of glutathione in their bodies and it is thus important not to aggravate the situation. > Regards,> Marc Swanepoel> > - > Carl Fritch > oleander soup > Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:57 PM> update and request for thoughts and comments> > > As some of you may remember by PSA jumped from 30 to 630 in 3 months> last Dec.> > I was taking about 4 OPC pills a day for some of that time trying to> work up to 6 a day.> > I started taking the Casodex again because, even though I don't want> to take it, it seems to be the only thing that has helped in the past.> > I was able to get up to 6 OPC pills a day and did 1 liver cleanse. I> also started on a mostly vegetarian diet. > > My PSA as of Tuesday was 623.> > The good news is it stopped getting worse and even went down slightly.> The bad news is I can't credit OPC with that because I started taking> the Casodex again and I am on Lupron.> > The odd thing for me is I started feeling better almost the day I got> my dosage of OPC up to 6 pills a day. I also have no pain. I was> starting to have some bone pain back in December.> > This seems odd to me that I would feel significantly better and yet> have marginal improvement in my numbers.> > Any thoughts or comments?> > Thanks in advance,> Carl> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hi Carl, My husband is feeling quite a lot better than before since of OPC etc altho his blood levels have not yet greatly improved. We are hoping to see more improvements soon tho. The question is what is more important for us: feeling physically better but not much improvment on paper or vice versa. Okay, the best thing would to see big improvements everywhere but for the moment we are satisfied with what we have acheived so far. Hopefully we will be able to cut back on quantities soon (from 6 back to 4 opc, etc. to make this alternative protocol a little more financially sustainable. But so far the sacrifice is worthwhile even though it takes patience and faith as well. Good luck Nelly oleander soup , " Carl Fritch " <carlfritch wrote: > > As some of you may remember by PSA jumped from 30 to 630 in 3 months > last Dec. > > I was taking about 4 OPC pills a day for some of that time trying to > work up to 6 a day. > > I started taking the Casodex again because, even though I don't want > to take it, it seems to be the only thing that has helped in the past. > > I was able to get up to 6 OPC pills a day and did 1 liver cleanse. I > also started on a mostly vegetarian diet. > > My PSA as of Tuesday was 623. > > The good news is it stopped getting worse and even went down slightly. > The bad news is I can't credit OPC with that because I started taking > the Casodex again and I am on Lupron. > > The odd thing for me is I started feeling better almost the day I got > my dosage of OPC up to 6 pills a day. I also have no pain. I was > starting to have some bone pain back in December. > > This seems odd to me that I would feel significantly better and yet > have marginal improvement in my numbers. > > Any thoughts or comments? > > Thanks in advance, > Carl > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I agree. I don't care what my PSA is if I feel good and my quality of life is good. (Although the reality is if your PSA is high it is not a good thing). Carl oleander soup , " N. Cave " <nellycave wrote: > > Hi Carl, > My husband is feeling quite a lot better than before since of OPC etc > altho his blood levels have not yet greatly improved. We are hoping > to see more improvements soon tho. > The question is what is more important for us: feeling physically > better but not much improvment on paper or vice versa. Okay, the best > thing would to see big improvements everywhere but for the moment we > are satisfied with what we have acheived so far. > Hopefully we will be able to cut back on quantities soon (from 6 back > to 4 opc, etc. to make this alternative protocol a little more > financially sustainable. But so far the sacrifice is worthwhile even > though it takes patience and faith as well. > Good luck > Nelly > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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