Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

October 3, 2007

At 10:01 AM 10/3/07, you wrote:

>

>-

>R J Tavel JD

>Learning Electronically About Freedom mailing service

>Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:23 AM

>[Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

>

>In 1911, Turkey established gun control.

>

> From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves,

>

>were rounded up and exterminated.

>

>In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.

>

> From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend

>

>themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

>

>China established gun control in 1935.

>

> From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend

>

>themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

>

>Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total

>

>of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves

>

>were rounded up and exterminated.

>

>Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one

>

>million educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

>

>and exterminated.

>

>Guatemala established gun control in 1964.

>

> From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves,

>

>were rounded up and exterminated.

>

>Uganda established gun control in 1970.

>

> From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves,

>

>were rounded up and exterminated.

>

>Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century

>

>because of gun control: 56 million.

>

>Some interesting facts from the first 12 months since gun owners in

>

>Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal

>

>firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing

>

>Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

>

>The first year results:

>

>Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults

>

>are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent.

>

>In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300

>

>percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the

>

>criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

>

>While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in

>

>armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in

>

>the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey

>

>is unarmed.

>

>There has also been a dramatic increase in break- ins and assaults of

>

>the ELDERLY.

>

>Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has

>

>decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in

>

>successfully ridding Australian society of guns.

>

>The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove

>

>it. You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear

>

>politicians disseminating this information.

>

>Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,

>

>gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take

>

>note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

>

>The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind

>

>them of this history lesson.

>

>With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. During

>WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most

>

>Americans were ARMED!

>

>Something for us to consider.

******

Kraig and Shirley Carroll ... in the woods of SE Kentucky

http://www.thehavens.com/

thehavens

606-376-3363

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October 4, 2007

I fail to understand your point. There is a huge difference between "gun control," and "gun abolition." I'm a democrat, and strongly oppose efforts to abolish handguns, but just as strongly favor a continuing effort to control the use of weapons in the hands of laymen, just to the extent that weapons post a risk to human life. We control everything in society, to the extent that it respresents a risk to human survival and well being. Automobile safety is strictly promoted, though I haven't heard anyone that favors abolising personally owned transportation. The use of alcohol is regulated. Even safety in Sports is taken for granted. Can you imagine the flying of airplanes, without a concern for safety? The safe use and storage of explosives, even fireworks, are strictly controlled. Why should the ownership and use of personal firearms be an exception?

You mention all these countries and peoples that "couldn't defend themselves." Why couldn't they? If gun "control" is established, does that mean or imply gun "abolition?' Not as far as I'm concerned. People in the U.S.A, should have the right to bear arms, but they should have this right, only if they've shown themselves responsible in their ownership and certainly in their use, and haven't revealed serious psychological disorders or demonsrated a willingness to use personal owned weapons in the commission of crimes.

jp

-

The Havens

graffis-l ; stopthepoisons ; Health and Healing-

Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:33 AM

Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

At 10:01 AM 10/3/07, you wrote:>>->R J Tavel JD>Learning Electronically About Freedom mailing service>Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:23 AM>[Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:>>>In 1911, Turkey established gun control.>> From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.>> From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend>>themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.>>China established gun control in 1935.>> From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend>>themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.>>Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total>>of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one>>million educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up>>and exterminated.>>Guatemala established gun control in 1964.>> From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Uganda established gun control in 1970.>> From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century>>because of gun control: 56 million.>>Some interesting facts from the first 12 months since gun owners in>>Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal>>firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing>>Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.>>The first year results:>>Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults>>are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent.>>In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300>>percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the>>criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!>>While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in>>armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in>>the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey>>is unarmed.>>There has also been a dramatic increase in break- ins and assaults of>>the ELDERLY.>>Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has>>decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in>>successfully ridding Australian society of guns.>>The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove>>it. You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear>>politicians disseminating this information.>>Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,>>gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take>>note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!>>The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind>>them of this history lesson.>>With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. During>WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most>>Americans were ARMED!>>Something for us to consider.******Kraig and Shirley Carroll ... in the woods of SE Kentuckyhttp://www.thehavens.com/thehavens (AT) highland (DOT) net606-376-3363

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October 6, 2007

Ok, so you fail to understand his point...how about this one: ".....shall not be infringed.."...is there something there you don't understand? It means not to be touched, not to be interfered with, not controlled..it was put there to stop what RJ denotes through out his posting. What you don't understand is that control is abolishment........this ownership of firearms is a RIGHT not a privilege as you seem to want to believe. If I want to buy a gun, and put it in a drawer, and never shoot the thing, that is my RIGHT to do so...it is not your RIGHT to stop me....where in the Constituition does it require any citizen to show this

responsibility and use to the Government to be allowed to own a firearm? It ain't there, and it aint there for that reason you don't seem to understand. Sorry. John Polifronio <counterpnt Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 1:17:54 AMRe: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

I fail to understand your point. There is a huge difference between "gun control," and "gun abolition." I'm a democrat, and strongly oppose efforts to abolish handguns, but just as strongly favor a continuing effort to control the use of weapons in the hands of laymen, just to the extent that weapons post a risk to human life. We control everything in society, to the extent that it respresents a risk to human survival and well being. Automobile safety is strictly promoted, though I haven't heard anyone that favors abolising personally owned transportation. The use of alcohol is regulated. Even safety in Sports is taken for granted. Can you imagine the flying of airplanes, without a concern for safety? The safe use and storage of explosives, even fireworks, are strictly controlled. Why should the ownership and use of personal firearms be an exception?

You mention all these countries and peoples that "couldn't defend themselves." Why couldn't they? If gun "control" is established, does that mean or imply gun "abolition?' Not as far as I'm concerned. People in the U.S.A, should have the right to bear arms, but they should have this right, only if they've shown themselves responsible in their ownership and certainly in their use, and haven't revealed serious psychological disorders or demonsrated a willingness to use personal owned weapons in the commission of crimes.

jp

-

The Havens

graffis-l@grou ps.com ; stopthepoisons@ ; Health and Healing- .com

Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:33 AM

[Health_and_ Healing] Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

At 10:01 AM 10/3/07, you wrote:>>->R J Tavel JD>Learning Electronically About Freedom mailing service>Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:23 AM>[Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:>>>In 1911, Turkey established gun control.>> From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.>> From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend>>themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.>>China established gun control in 1935.>> From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend>>themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.>>Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total>>of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one>>million educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up>>and exterminated.>>Guatemala established gun control in 1964.>> From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Uganda established gun control in 1970.>> From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century>>because of gun control: 56 million.>>Some interesting facts from the first 12 months since gun owners in>>Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal>>firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing>>Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.>>The first year results:>>Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults>>are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent.>>In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300>>percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the>>criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!>>While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in>>armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in>>the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey>>is unarmed.>>There has also been a dramatic increase in break- ins and assaults of>>the ELDERLY.>>Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has>>decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in>>successfully ridding Australian society of guns.>>The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove>>it. You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear>>politicians disseminating this information.>>Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,>>gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take>>note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!>>The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind>>them of this history lesson.>>With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. During>WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most>>Americans were ARMED!>>Something for us to consider.******Kraig and Shirley Carroll ... in the woods of SE Kentuckyhttp://www.thehaven s.com/thehavens (AT) highland (DOT) net606-376-3363

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October 6, 2007

THANK YOU......I WAS ABOUT TO RESPOND WITH THE FOUNDING FATHERS AND OUR

ORGANIC CONSTITUTION........BUT ALLOW ME TO USE A LOCAL TRAGEDY....TWO

WEEKS AGO IN MY COMMUNITY, A YOUNG MAN, MENTALLY IMPAIRED, AND ON ILLEGAL

DRUGS, MURDERED HIS MOTHER AND SHOT HIS FATHER IN THE FACE........WHILE

THEY SLEPT!!!!! THE GUN MOST CERTAINLY KILLED THIS WOMAN.....BUT, THE

DRUG PUSHER WHO WAS ALLOWED TO OPERATE FREELY, BECAUSE HE PAYS OFF IN NO

PARTICULAR ORDER, THE COPS, THE SENIOR JUDGE, THE STATES ATTORNEY AND THE

COUNTY ATTORNEY........EVEN IN THIS SMALL COMMUNITY, WITH TWO PHONE CALLS I

CAN PROBABLY HAVE ANY DRUG YOU CAN NAME.......ONLY BECAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT

ALLOWS THIS TO GO ON........ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN PRESIDENT CLINTON STARTED

THE WAR ON DRUGS......HE PUT 100,00 NEW POLICE OFFICERS IN THE FIELD TO

HALT THIS SCOURGE!!!!! CAN ANYONE ANY WHERE IN OUR COUNTRY SHOW ME WHERE

DRUG USE WENT DOWN, OR HAS IT GROWN TO THE HIGHEST LEVELS

EVER.........THREE YEARS AGO NOW, TWO YOUNG MEN [ ONE 21, ONE 22, WERE

MURDERED BY MY LIGHTS., IN MY COUNTY, ...ONE DIED OF AN OVER DOSE OF

OXYCOTIN AND ONE FROM AN OVER DOSE OF COCAINE........OXY CAN ONLY BE GOTTEN

THRU A DRS. SCRIPT AND CAN NOT BE PRODUCED WITH OUT A BIG DRUG COMPANIES

LAB.....COKE DOES NOT GROW HERE AND WE HAVE NAFTA TO THANK FOR THAT

PROLIFERATION .......THE POWERS THAT BE ARE RESPONSIBLE IN BOTH OF THESE

DEATHS AND TO DATE NO ONE HAS BEEN INDICTED OR HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS

TRAGEDY!!!!!! NOR WILL THEY BE.........BUT JOHN SEEMS TO SUGGEST HE IS

WILLING TO TRUST THOSE SAME SCUM TO TELL ME WHAT I WILL AND WILL NOT DO

RELATING TO FIREARMS........RIGHT NOW ALL THOSE UN-REGISTERED GUNS ARE WHAT

IS KEEPING THE NEOCONS [ READ THAT AS NAZI'S, LIBERALS, SOCIAL DEMOCRATS,

COMMUNISTS] FROM TAKING OVER THE LAST BASTION OF FREEDOM ON THE

PLANET......THIS MONTH IN SEVERAL WESTERN STATES AND U.S. TERRITORIES,

THERE IS A " MOCK " DRILL PLANNED TO INSTITUTE MARTIAL LAW, USING THE U.S.

MILITARY TO RUN THE EXERCISE, WHICH IMPLY'S THEY WILL ALSO DO THE REAL

THING IN TOTAL DEFIANCE OF OUR CONSTITUTION......THANK GOD FOR ALL OF US

VETERANS WHO KNOW HOW TO DO SOME VERY UGLY THINGS WITH WEAPONS.........AND

IF REQUIRED TO , WILL UP HOLD THE OATH WE ALL TOOK AT THE INCEPTION OF OUR

MILITARY SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY, TO DEFEND AND PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION OF

THESE UNITED STATES AND NOT THE CORPORATE , FOREIGN CONTROLLED GOVERNMENT

IN WASHINGTON D.C., .....FOR THOSE WHO TRULY WANT TO KNOW HOW WE GOT INTO

THE FINANCIAL MESS, READ G.EDWARD GRIFFITHS BOOK, " THE CREATURE OF

JEYKELL ISLAND " ........AND YOU WILL KNOW WHY WE HAD BETTER KEEP OUR POWDER

DRY, AND OUR SHOOTIN' IRONS HANDY! KRAIG

Kraig Carroll

Environmental Damage Repair

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October 7, 2007

I never said that gun ownership wasn't a RIGHT. I agree that it's a right. You're failure to see this, is part of the defensive mentality of the activist gun owner. You think someone is about to take your guns away. I said I support your right to bear arms. All I want, is that you demonstrate some responsibility in the course of owning them. I don't want you anywhere near me, if you're bearing arms, and are mentally deranged or incompetent; and I certainly don't want you around me, if you're a violence-prone criminal. I can live with mentally deranged and incompetent people, and I can even live in the same town, with violence-prone criminals; but not if they're illegally armed. Nowhere is any of this connected, as far as I'm concerned, with "abolishing" guns. Control is certainly not abolishment. Control is common in society, with all manner of things that pose a danger to public safety.

I also don't want people to own guns, that have not demonstrated an ability to use and handle them responsibly. I once saw a man on the street; he was obviously mentally disturbed, and he was carrying a large piece of broken glass. I watched him for about a minute, and saw him mildly threatening people as he walked, though he didn't actually attack anyone with the piece of broken glass. I didn't wait for a more serious attack; I immdiately went into a nearby store, and called the police. A moment later, a police car was driving by, and I flagged them down, and told them I'd already called for help. They took the man into custody. If that had been a gun in his hand, what would you have done?

jp

-

onthemend1

Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:05 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Ok, so you fail to understand his point...how about this one: ".....shall not be infringed.."...is there something there you don't understand? It means not to be touched, not to be interfered with, not controlled..it was put there to stop what RJ denotes through out his posting. What you don't understand is that control is abolishment........this ownership of firearms is a RIGHT not a privilege as you seem to want to believe. If I want to buy a gun, and put it in a drawer, and never shoot the thing, that is my RIGHT to do so...it is not your RIGHT to stop me....where in the Constituition does it require any citizen to show this responsibility and use to the Government to be allowed to own a firearm? It ain't there, and it aint there for that reason you don't seem to understand. Sorry.

John Polifronio <counterpnt (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 1:17:54 AMRe: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

I fail to understand your point. There is a huge difference between "gun control," and "gun abolition." I'm a democrat, and strongly oppose efforts to abolish handguns, but just as strongly favor a continuing effort to control the use of weapons in the hands of laymen, just to the extent that weapons post a risk to human life. We control everything in society, to the extent that it respresents a risk to human survival and well being. Automobile safety is strictly promoted, though I haven't heard anyone that favors abolising personally owned transportation. The use of alcohol is regulated. Even safety in Sports is taken for granted. Can you imagine the flying of airplanes, without a concern for safety? The safe use and storage of explosives, even fireworks, are strictly controlled. Why should the ownership and use of personal firearms be an exception?

You mention all these countries and peoples that "couldn't defend themselves." Why couldn't they? If gun "control" is established, does that mean or imply gun "abolition?' Not as far as I'm concerned. People in the U.S.A, should have the right to bear arms, but they should have this right, only if they've shown themselves responsible in their ownership and certainly in their use, and haven't revealed serious psychological disorders or demonsrated a willingness to use personal owned weapons in the commission of crimes.

jp

-

The Havens

graffis-l@grou ps.com ; stopthepoisons@ ; Health and Healing- .com

Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:33 AM

[Health_and_ Healing] Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

At 10:01 AM 10/3/07, you wrote:>>->R J Tavel JD>Learning Electronically About Freedom mailing service>Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:23 AM>[Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:>>>In 1911, Turkey established gun control.>> From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.>> From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend>>themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.>>China established gun control in 1935.>> From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend>>themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.>>Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total>>of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one>>million educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up>>and exterminated.>>Guatemala established gun control in 1964.>> From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Uganda established gun control in 1970.>> From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves,>>were rounded up and exterminated.>>Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century>>because of gun control: 56 million.>>Some interesting facts from the first 12 months since gun owners in>>Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal>>firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing>>Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.>>The first year results:>>Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults>>are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent.>>In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300>>percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the>>criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!>>While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in>>armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in>>the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey>>is unarmed.>>There has also been a dramatic increase in break- ins and assaults of>>the ELDERLY.>>Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has>>decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in>>successfully ridding Australian society of guns.>>The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove>>it. You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear>>politicians disseminating this information.>>Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,>>gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take>>note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!>>The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind>>them of this history lesson.>>With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. During>WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most>>Americans were ARMED!>>Something for us to consider.******Kraig and Shirley Carroll ... in the woods of SE Kentuckyhttp://www.thehaven s.com/thehavens (AT) highland (DOT) net606-376-3363

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www. grisoft.com) .Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release 2/14/05

Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more.

October 8, 2007

Controlling guns only puts more restraints on the law abiding. Those that are lawless will not heed the law... never have...never will. There will always be a black market for guns and anything else for that matter.

When are people going to realize they are creating a dictatorship out of our govenment by asking them to micro-regulate everything... our freedoms are being stripped daily... and who does it affect... the law abiding citizens... does it stop crime... NO... has it ever... NO... will it ever... NO! If we give up our guns that will leave us unarmed against the lawless...it will be open season and no one will be safe!

The only way to minimize crime is to divert our culture back to its "moral" beginnings. Clean up the movies coming out of Hollywood... Set a higher moral standard... respect life!

I could continue but won't... this is a very passionate issue for me... I'm proud to be an American.... and to me that means... God ... Family... Country!.... NOT government... goverment.... government!

Thank you and have a great day everybody!

Bonnie

October 9, 2007

Hello! I am totally intrigued by the "Gun Control" debate that seems to be going on. I am opposed to gun control because my "right to bear arms" choice would be taken from me. And, I would not be able to defend myself if I chose to do so with a gun. Maybe changing the focus on "control" to peace might be an alternative option. I am saving the statistics since I may need them to maintain my free agency to keep a gun. Bad people will always get guns - ask a prison warden. Since this is a group on "Health and Healing", the following statistics might encourage those who haven't decided which way to go and make a better choice! (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000. (B) Accidental deaths caused by

Physicians per year are 120,000. © Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. (Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services) Guns (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. Yes, that is 80 million. (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500. © The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188. Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do." FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR. Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand! Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical attention.

October 9, 2007

What is it that makes it so hard for most gun rights advocates to understand the difference between gun "control," and gun "abolition?" Is it that you don't understand the difference between these two words? Any activity, in all rational and orderly societies, that poses a risk to human safety and life, is controlled.

We don't "abolish" automobiles, but we "control" the circumstances under which they're driven.

We don't "abolish" airplanes, but we control the conditions and circumstances of flying them.

We don't "abolish" expolosives, but we strictly control their use.

We control, we don't abolish, the use of alcoholic beverages.

We are continuing to increase control over the use of cigarettes, when society faced up to the fact, that 1/2 million people were dying of cancer and other diseases, due to their use. But you can still smoke; but not in restaurants, or certain other public places.

How is the personal possession of firearms any different? HARDLY ANYONE IS TRYING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY FROM YOU. Your joke about "banning" doctors is senseless, since no one has been able to "ban" guns. Controlling gun use and possession is not the same is "banning" guns. Why this confusion. It's amazing. You gun people, hear the word "control," and immediately you start talking about a "ban."

jp

-

cheryl gebhart

Monday, October 08, 2007 8:38 PM

Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Hello!

I am totally intrigued by the "Gun Control" debate that seems to be going on. I am opposed to gun control because my "right to bear arms" choice would be taken from me. And, I would not be able to defend myself if I chose to do so with a gun.

Maybe changing the focus on "control" to peace might be an alternative option. I am saving the statistics since I may need them to maintain my free agency to keep a gun. Bad people will always get guns - ask a prison warden.

Since this is a group on "Health and Healing", the following statistics might encourage those who haven't decided which way to go and make a better choice!

(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000. (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000. © Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services)

Guns (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. Yes, that is 80 million.

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500. © The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!

Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical attention.

October 9, 2007

And as an Australian, in a Country that has gun control laws I am also intrigued by your gun control laws, or should I say, lack thereof. I am proud to be an Australian and proud of the fact that we do have gun control laws. And we certainly do not have the huge number of mass shootings that you in the US are frequently having and for that I am thankful.

We do not need a "right to bear arms" but we do need a right to be SAFE from trigger happy gun-toters who shoot first and ask questions later.

I'm sorry but I just cannot get my head around the fact that Americans are so insecure that they have to have a gun to make them "safe".

We still have murders, etc because even gun control laws won't stop those who are determined to have illegal guns but they are the minority of the population and the bulk of us can get on with our lives in safety.

Lyndall

----

cheryl gebhart

9/10/2007 2:41:43 PM

Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Hello!

I am totally intrigued by the "Gun Control" debate that seems to be going on. I am opposed to gun control because my "right to bear arms" choice would be taken from me. And, I would not be able to defend myself if I chose to do so with a gun.

October 9, 2007

GREAT PIECE, THANKS.....BUT I WOULD MAKE ONE CORRECTION....THE DOCS ARE

RESPONSIBLE FOR OVER 300,000 DEATHS A YEAR.......THE CUTE WORD THAT IS USED

TO COVER THEM AND THE HOSPITALS IS " IATRAGENSIS " ......THANKS FOR THOSE

'GUN' NUMBERS.......KRAIG

Kraig Carroll

Environmental Damage Repair

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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October 10, 2007

Especially in the areas of medicine and liberties our freedoms are being

eliminated. See www.infowars.com and www.prisonplanet.com for free videos.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" Bonnie " <write2bonnie

> Controlling guns only puts more restraints on the law abiding. Those that are

> lawless will not heed the law... never have...never will. There will always

be

> a black market for guns and anything else for that matter.

>

> When are people going to realize they are creating a dictatorship out of our

> govenment by asking them to micro-regulate everything... our freedoms are

being

> stripped daily... and who does it affect... the law abiding citizens... does

it

> stop crime... NO... has it ever... NO... will it ever... NO! If we give up

our

> guns that will leave us unarmed against the lawless...it will be open season

and

> no one will be safe!

> The only way to minimize crime is to divert our culture back to its " moral "

> beginnings. Clean up the movies coming out of Hollywood... Set a higher

moral

> standard... respect life!

>

> I could continue but won't... this is a very passionate issue for me... I'm

> proud to be an American.... and to me that means... God ... Family...

> Country!.... NOT government... goverment.... government!

>

> Thank you and have a great day everybody!

> Bonnie

>

Controlling guns only puts more restraints on the law abiding. Those that are lawless will not heed the law... never have...never will. There will always be a black market for guns and anything else for that matter.

When are people going to realize they are creating a dictatorship out of our govenment by asking them to micro-regulate everything... our freedoms are being stripped daily... and who does it affect... the law abiding citizens... does it stop crime... NO... has it ever... NO... will it ever... NO! If we give up our guns that will leave us unarmed against the lawless...it will be open season and no one will be safe!

The only way to minimize crime is to divert our culture back to its "moral" beginnings. Clean up the movies coming out of Hollywood... Set a higher moral standard... respect life!

I could continue but won't... this is a very passionate issue for me... I'm proud to be an American.... and to me that means... God ... Family... Country!.... NOT government... goverment.... government!

Thank you and have a great day everybody!

Bonnie

October 10, 2007

THOMAS JEFFERSON WOULD BE PROUD OF YOU BONNIE, AND SO AM I....OUR

MANY GUN'S ARE THE ONLY THING THE NWO CAN'T GET AROUND........SO THEY GIVE

US THE FEDERAL RESERVE, AND A TWO TRILLION DOLLAR ANNUAL PAYMENT ON THE

INTEREST ON THE NATIONAL DEBT THAT PASSING THRU THE FED. BY IRS DELIVERY OF

YOUR TAX MONIES GOING TO THEM AND NOT TO THE U.S TREASURY AS WE WERE LEAD

TO BELIEVE A LONG TIME AGO, TO PAY THE BILLS OF GOVERNMENT....NOPE NOT

EVEN.....CHECK ANY OF YOUR PREVIOUS CHECKS TO THE IRS AND TURN IT OVER AND

SEE WHO ENDORSED IT, IT WON'T BE THE TREASURY OF THE U.S. .....

SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, A CANCER FACADE THAT HIDES A 100 + BILLION DOLLAR A

YEAR CHEMO INDUSTRY THAT DOES NOT WORK!!! CREATING " SOCIAL " SECURITY TO

PRODUCE BENEFITS AND ASSUME THE ROLE OF GOD........WHERE MULTI-BILLIONS OF

DOLLARS GO TO THE DRUG COMPANIES AND THEIR HANDLERS......JUST THRU

MEDICARE .[ MEDICARE DID PAY FOR MY LATE WIFES' DRUP/PHARMACY BILL, ALL

52, 400$$ OF IT] .[62 DAYS] .....I STILL OWE ON THE HOSPITAL

BILL......THEIR DRUGS DIDN'T WORK, THE ONLY WAY WE HAD A HOPE OF GETTING

MY WIFE OUT OF THE HOSPITAL, WAS WITH ABOUT 1,000$$ WORTH OF NATURAL

PRODUCTS PROCESSES AND TECHNIQUE'S [ THAT WORKED BUT MEDICARE WOULDN'T

TOUCH....NO MONEY IN IT EITHER, JUST TRULY SUPPORTING THE BODIES NATURAL

ABILITY TO FIX ITSELF]...........THAT DID WHAT HAD NEVER BEEN SEEN IN THAT

HOSPITAL. AND THE INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT SAID WAS

IMPOSSIBLE.....!!!...[GOVERNMENT CARE] BIGGEST DRUG PUSHERS IN THE WORLD.

AND OWNED BY THE RICHEST, OLDEST PILES OF MONEY ON THE PLANET......IT WOULD

BE DIFFERENT IF THEIR WAY COULD STAND THE " JESUS CHRIST TEST " " DOES IT

WORK " " BY THEIR FRUITS>>>???? I THINK IT INSANE TO ALLOW ANY ONE THE

POWER TO PUT ANY KIND OF " CHIP " , OR VACCINE...... IN ANY HUMAN, [ I LOVE

THIS GUY IN CALIFORNIA WHO HAS PUT UP 75,000 $$ TO ANY CEO OF THE DRUG

FIRMS WHO PRODUCE THIS POISON AND INJECT IT INTO TINY, BRAND NEW,

BODIES, AND TO THE M.D.'S WHO SIGN THE ORDER'S, IF THEY WILL INJEST THE

SAME AMOUNT THEY PUT INTO BRAND NEW BABIES!!!! NOT A TAKER YET...HE'S HAD

THIS CHALLENGE OUT THERE A NUMBER OF YEARS NOW!!!!! GIGANTIC GOVERNMENT

CONTRACTS INVOLVED........ OTHER THAN THE WORST OF OUR SOCIETY, CHILD

PREDATORS , RAPEST'S, REAL THREAT'S TO SOCIETY,.THOSE COULD BE

CHIPPED.....BUT TO GIVE GOVERNMENT THAT KIND OF POWER.....NOT IN MY

NAME!!!!!!! Kraig L. Carroll, Sovereign, American,Kentuckian!!!!

******

Kraig and Shirley Carroll ... in the woods of SE Kentucky

http://www.thehavens.com/

thehavens

606-376-3363

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release 2/14/05

October 10, 2007

Exactly! Australia has gun CONTROL laws which means you cannot just go and buy a gun off the shelf, you MUST apply for a license, get a police check, medical, etc to prove that you are fit and able to properly own/handle a gun. And you must have a proper gun storage cupboard (with lock).

Sporting gun clubs exist to train people in the proper use of firearms. And hunters must have current gun licenses.

Yes you still have those who deliberately break the laws, you always will, but the bulk of the population accept and respect those laws and abide by them and as a result we have a safer environment to live in.

huggs

Lyndall

----

John Polifronio

11/10/2007 6:24:51 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

What is it that makes it so hard for most gun rights advocates to understand the difference between gun "control," and gun "abolition?" Is it that you don't understand the difference between these two words? Any activity, in all rational and orderly societies, that poses a risk to human safety and life, is controlled.

We don't "abolish" automobiles, but we "control" the circumstances under which they're driven.

How is the personal possession of firearms any different? HARDLY ANYONE IS TRYING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY FROM YOU. Your joke about "banning" doctors is senseless, since no one has been able to "ban" guns. Controlling gun use and possession is not the same is "banning" guns. Why this confusion. It's amazing. You gun people, hear the word "control," and immediately you start talking about a "ban."

jp

October 10, 2007

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

----

Tazidevil

10/10/07 13:42:07

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Exactly! Australia has gun CONTROL laws which means you cannot just go and buy a gun off the shelf, you MUST apply for a license, get a police check, medical, etc to prove that you are fit and able to properly own/handle a gun. And you must have a proper gun storage cupboard (with lock).

Sporting gun clubs exist to train people in the proper use of firearms. And hunters must have current gun licenses.

Yes you still have those who deliberately break the laws, you always will, but the bulk of the population accept and respect those laws and abide by them and as a result we have a safer environment to live in.

huggs

Lyndall

----

John Polifronio

11/10/2007 6:24:51 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

What is it that makes it so hard for most gun rights advocates to understand the difference between gun "control," and gun "abolition?" Is it that you don't understand the difference between these two words? Any activity, in all rational and orderly societies, that poses a risk to human safety and life, is controlled.

We don't "abolish" automobiles, but we "control" the circumstances under which they're driven.

How is the personal possession of firearms any different? HARDLY ANYONE IS TRYING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY FROM YOU. Your joke about "banning" doctors is senseless, since no one has been able to "ban" guns. Controlling gun use and possession is not the same is "banning" guns. Why this confusion. It's amazing. You gun people, hear the word "control," and immediately you start talking about a "ban."

jp

October 10, 2007

If you are referring to our convict past...then YES!!! And I as an Australian take this remark as a personal insult. However I do not have convict blood as my forebears arrived here as free settlers from the UK and I belong to one of the largest and most famous ancestral clans in the World, but even if I did have convict ancestry I would be mighty proud of those amazing people who were transported to Australia as "convicts" for such misdeamenours as stealing a loaf of bread, removed from all their friends and family to a strange uninhabited country and were able to forge that inhospitable land into the magnificent Country it is today.

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 7:55:30 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

October 10, 2007

And I saw nothing at that link that comes even close to what you just commented! The link refers to the war between England-Ireland which just so happened to have Australia stuck in the middle!

My interpretation of this article is one of incredible bravery on the part of those on board the Catalpa, and nothing to do with "offspring of genocidal criminals"!

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 7:55:30 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

October 10, 2007

Uh, i guess you forgot who got slaughter in the forge of such inhospitable land??

"Aborigines were forced out of their traditional homes, hunted like wild animals, poisoned or shot, and confined to the harshest and most desolate climes. The effect of British settlement upon these people led to near extinction within 120 years."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/geno-s07.shtml

and you are personally insulted?? aawwwh!

Yeah, all is safe and sound for you all thanks the mad use of THE GUN before on others unlike you!

Hempress

----

Tazidevil

10/10/07 15:08:26

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

If you are referring to our convict past...then YES!!! And I as an Australian take this remark as a personal insult. However I do not have convict blood as my forebears arrived here as free settlers from the UK and I belong to one of the largest and most famous ancestral clans in the World, but even if I did have convict ancestry I would be mighty proud of those amazing people who were transported to Australia as "convicts" for such misdeamenours as stealing a loaf of bread, removed from all their friends and family to a strange uninhabited country and were able to forge that inhospitable land into the magnificent Country it is today.

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 7:55:30 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

October 11, 2007

Stealing a little bread is not that bad .........

-

HAH

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

with lock).

October 11, 2007

Hey - I'd better join in this one - I came to Oz in the 60's - I did not immigrate - I just stayed - you could do that back then - and I became a criminal here - so now its in my family history anyway - if you want to know the full story on Australian history read John Pilger - who can no longer live here because he told that story - and lived!! The rise of this nation is a farce and doubtless the fall will be as much a farce again - but this is how western civilizations go - all of them - I mean isn't this how the white in American treated their slaves? It's the supremacy factor - its in our genes - unless we get to be spiritually more evolved than the next man!! Pauline Hanson could have saved our bacon but they even got the school kids trained to spit on her image she was such a danger to the status quo - go figure!!

Jane

-

HAH

Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:20 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Uh, i guess you forgot who got slaughter in the forge of such inhospitable land??

"Aborigines were forced out of their traditional homes, hunted like wild animals, poisoned or shot, and confined to the harshest and most desolate climes. The effect of British settlement upon these people led to near extinction within 120 years."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/geno-s07.shtml

and you are personally insulted?? aawwwh!

Yeah, all is safe and sound for you all thanks the mad use of THE GUN before on others unlike you!

Hempress

----

Tazidevil

10/10/07 15:08:26

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

If you are referring to our convict past...then YES!!! And I as an Australian take this remark as a personal insult. However I do not have convict blood as my forebears arrived here as free settlers from the UK and I belong to one of the largest and most famous ancestral clans in the World, but even if I did have convict ancestry I would be mighty proud of those amazing people who were transported to Australia as "convicts" for such misdeamenours as stealing a loaf of bread, removed from all their friends and family to a strange uninhabited country and were able to forge that inhospitable land into the magnificent Country it is today.

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 7:55:30 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

October 11, 2007

At least you are honest about it~

Hempress

----

Jane MacRoss

10/10/07 16:30:45

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Hey - I'd better join in this one - I came to Oz in the 60's - I did not immigrate - I just stayed - you could do that back then - and I became a criminal here - so now its in my family history anyway - if you want to know the full story on Australian history read John Pilger - who can no longer live here because he told that story - and lived!! The rise of this nation is a farce and doubtless the fall will be as much a farce again - but this is how western civilizations go - all of them - I mean isn't this how the white in American treated their slaves? It's the supremacy factor - its in our genes - unless we get to be spiritually more evolved than the next man!! Pauline Hanson could have saved our bacon but they even got the school kids trained to spit on her image she was such a danger to the status quo - go figure!!

Jane

-

HAH

Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:20 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Uh, i guess you forgot who got slaughter in the forge of such inhospitable land??

"Aborigines were forced out of their traditional homes, hunted like wild animals, poisoned or shot, and confined to the harshest and most desolate climes. The effect of British settlement upon these people led to near extinction within 120 years."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/geno-s07.shtml

and you are personally insulted?? aawwwh!

Yeah, all is safe and sound for you all thanks the mad use of THE GUN before on others unlike you!

Hempress

----

Tazidevil

10/10/07 15:08:26

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

If you are referring to our convict past...then YES!!! And I as an Australian take this remark as a personal insult. However I do not have convict blood as my forebears arrived here as free settlers from the UK and I belong to one of the largest and most famous ancestral clans in the World, but even if I did have convict ancestry I would be mighty proud of those amazing people who were transported to Australia as "convicts" for such misdeamenours as stealing a loaf of bread, removed from all their friends and family to a strange uninhabited country and were able to forge that inhospitable land into the magnificent Country it is today.

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 7:55:30 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

October 11, 2007

Trouble is the less guns the people have the more guns the cops get - it comes full circle .... what the Abbos once got we will eventually get .......

Jane

-

Jane MacRoss

Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:29 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Hey - I'd better join in this one - I came to Oz in the 60's - I did not immigrate - I just stayed - you could do that back then - and I became a criminal here - so now its in my family history anyway - if you want to know the full story on Australian history read John Pilger - who can no longer live here because he told that story - and lived!! The rise of this nation is a farce and doubtless the fall will be as much a farce again - but this is how western civilizations go - all of them - I mean isn't this how the white in American treated their slaves? It's the supremacy factor - its in our genes - unless we get to be spiritually more evolved than the next man!! Pauline Hanson could have saved our bacon but they even got the school kids trained to spit on her image she was such a danger to the status quo - go figure!!

Jane

-

HAH

Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:20 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Uh, i guess you forgot who got slaughter in the forge of such inhospitable land??

"Aborigines were forced out of their traditional homes, hunted like wild animals, poisoned or shot, and confined to the harshest and most desolate climes. The effect of British settlement upon these people led to near extinction within 120 years."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/geno-s07.shtml

and you are personally insulted?? aawwwh!

Yeah, all is safe and sound for you all thanks the mad use of THE GUN before on others unlike you!

Hempress

----

Tazidevil

10/10/07 15:08:26

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

If you are referring to our convict past...then YES!!! And I as an Australian take this remark as a personal insult. However I do not have convict blood as my forebears arrived here as free settlers from the UK and I belong to one of the largest and most famous ancestral clans in the World, but even if I did have convict ancestry I would be mighty proud of those amazing people who were transported to Australia as "convicts" for such misdeamenours as stealing a loaf of bread, removed from all their friends and family to a strange uninhabited country and were able to forge that inhospitable land into the magnificent Country it is today.

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 7:55:30 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

October 11, 2007

I do totally agree with Tazidevil with how his Country deals with the gun issue today~ I think it took me a week to get my gun, cant recall, i got it 16 years ago~

Hempress

----

Jane MacRoss

10/10/07 17:30:47

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Trouble is the less guns the people have the more guns the cops get - it comes full circle .... what the Abbos once got we will eventually get .......

Jane

-

Jane MacRoss

Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:29 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Hey - I'd better join in this one - I came to Oz in the 60's - I did not immigrate - I just stayed - you could do that back then - and I became a criminal here - so now its in my family history anyway - if you want to know the full story on Australian history read John Pilger - who can no longer live here because he told that story - and lived!! The rise of this nation is a farce and doubtless the fall will be as much a farce again - but this is how western civilizations go - all of them - I mean isn't this how the white in American treated their slaves? It's the supremacy factor - its in our genes - unless we get to be spiritually more evolved than the next man!! Pauline Hanson could have saved our bacon but they even got the school kids trained to spit on her image she was such a danger to the status quo - go figure!!

Jane

-

HAH

Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:20 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Uh, i guess you forgot who got slaughter in the forge of such inhospitable land??

"Aborigines were forced out of their traditional homes, hunted like wild animals, poisoned or shot, and confined to the harshest and most desolate climes. The effect of British settlement upon these people led to near extinction within 120 years."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/geno-s07.shtml

and you are personally insulted?? aawwwh!

Yeah, all is safe and sound for you all thanks the mad use of THE GUN before on others unlike you!

Hempress

----

Tazidevil

10/10/07 15:08:26

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

If you are referring to our convict past...then YES!!! And I as an Australian take this remark as a personal insult. However I do not have convict blood as my forebears arrived here as free settlers from the UK and I belong to one of the largest and most famous ancestral clans in the World, but even if I did have convict ancestry I would be mighty proud of those amazing people who were transported to Australia as "convicts" for such misdeamenours as stealing a loaf of bread, removed from all their friends and family to a strange uninhabited country and were able to forge that inhospitable land into the magnificent Country it is today.

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 7:55:30 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

October 11, 2007

So I take it that White Americans are innocent of racial prejudice? That your American forefathers didnt almost totally wipe-out the American Indian??

Native Americans are forced to live in Reservations, almost all of them confined to the harshest and most desolute parts of the US.

So "who" is perfect???? But then I suppose you consider yourself free of sin so you can cast the first stone?

I have no intentions of getting into a slanging match with a pot-head. Subject is closed.

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 9:24:26 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Uh, i guess you forgot who got slaughter in the forge of such inhospitable land??

"Aborigines were forced out of their traditional homes, hunted like wild animals, poisoned or shot, and confined to the harshest and most desolate climes. The effect of British settlement upon these people led to near extinction within 120 years."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/geno-s07.shtml

and you are personally insulted?? aawwwh!

Yeah, all is safe and sound for you all thanks the mad use of THE GUN before on others unlike you!

Hempress

----

Tazidevil

10/10/07 15:08:26

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

If you are referring to our convict past...then YES!!! And I as an Australian take this remark as a personal insult. However I do not have convict blood as my forebears arrived here as free settlers from the UK and I belong to one of the largest and most famous ancestral clans in the World, but even if I did have convict ancestry I would be mighty proud of those amazing people who were transported to Australia as "convicts" for such misdeamenours as stealing a loaf of bread, removed from all their friends and family to a strange uninhabited country and were able to forge that inhospitable land into the magnificent Country it is today.

Lyndall

----

HAH

11/10/2007 7:55:30 AM

Re: Re: Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

Yeah, and if the offspring of genocidal criminals could do it in Australia, we can do it too!

http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/australia.htm

Hempress

Fw: [Lis-LEAF] A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

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