Vitamin Levels inadequate? Ed you are probably right!

April 21, 2007

Ed,I will re-read your letter with more thought and consideration. I have my good days and days not so good. I may have read your work when my understanding was effected by some what of a negative attitude at the time. I make mistakes just like everyone else. I appologize if I have offended you.Jerry WayneEd Siceloff <siceloff wrote: Wayne, you missed my agreement with you? READ: "And, as well, food agriculturally grown is often less dense in nutrients, usable nutrients, than are wild foods. " I said that in the first note. You appear to have not read it. It agreed with you. But I differ in relation to vitamins outside of their food context. I have seen where they have usefulness for those who are sick. Many of those people can not get enough of the nutrients they need without resorting to vitamins. The vitamins and minerals and other phytonutrients present in wildcrafted herbs are way better for you. And, to boot, they are also in an energy pattern (actually appearing as light to certain instruments) that is the usefullness of the plant. This is not there with various extracted vitamins, minerals, one or two chemical extracts, etc. But, a body will still get more for its healing from the vitamin pill, than what

it does without it, especially if a person can not eat 10 apples (and yeah, I know apples are NOT wild herbs). I'm not going to give you my testimony of my good pudding though, accomplished through my own efforts and knowledge. lol, suffice it to say that I am healthy and "alive." And, your testimony doesn't mention whether children and family and self were perhaps born with good constitutions. There are people born with serious actual weaknesses, and proclivities towards weaknesses. I've seen, and many hundreds of others have seen, people get well using the whole variety of alternative medicine. AND there are people who die using wild crafted herbs, like Amazonian villagers who get sick. The use of wild crafted herbs alone is no guarantee of anything. Many variables enter in. There can be many variables to the

success of any particular health maintenance program. The founder of Amazon Herbs tells some great stories of his own in relation to wild crafted herbs. Oops, I have a monetary consideration with them. Oh, I reckon that phd gives you a monetary consideration every bit as great as the vitamin manufacture companies and the people who sell the vitamins. You are in the business of, are you not? Or do you treat people for free. I get my wild crafted herbs from AmazonHerb, Frontier Herb, and some other sources. I am the primary person using what I know, but, I've been blessed with seeing people that I make recommendations to in relation to what I know about them, get well from various things. I don't have huge experiences with wild crafted herbs and disease, but neither am I practicing on large amounts of people trying to make my living from

it. Oh, I have also bought formulations from Standard Process, although not from you specifically (if you sell them since it sounds like you are in practice). And, I've probably read Dr. Lee in Let's Live magazine. Nor am I casting any aspersions upon Lee, or even you. I do disagree, though, that 1. As above, vitamins and supplements in general, in a pill form, can be wonders, especially in bodies that do not get them in other ways; and, 2. I disagree that dietary deficiencies do not cause disease, which is one of the things that Lee said back in the 50s. Diseases are caused by a number of factors, including dietary deficiencies, that cause the body to exhibit disease and failure. But, dietary deficiencies do not necessarily cause disease. There can be other compensatory factors that prevent a 1 to 1 relationship between disease and dietary

deficiency. But, when disease is present, I tend to think that dietary deficiency, or more particularly nutrient deficiency, is present. But, on the other hand, I tend to attribute my health to a good constitution first and foremost, and to exercise, frequent hard work and/or exercise, and fresh air (I work in forest) and sunshine, and mostly simple lifestyle. For most, we die when we quit moving. Vitamin c certainly worked for Linus Pauling. Although some people say that since he died from cancer, it didn't. But, remember, he was in his 90s (if I remember right). - Wayne Anderson Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:45 PM Re: Vitamin Levels inadequate? Attention Ed Ed,May I suggest that you read Dr. Royal Lee's work and do a lot more research on organic and wild crafted foods versus commercial foods. You may also want to work on achieving a PhD in nutrition as I did to further your scope of nutrition, if you haven't done so. I haven't taken any synthetic vitamins in twenty years or more and I don't get sick. My wife and I haven't had the flu in over twenty years. I have three kids 25, 20, and 18 and they never

spent one sick day in bed in their lives. Their teeth are awesome. I didn't feed them foods that were fortified, enriched, or loaded with a bunch of crap nor did I ever give them vitamin / mineral supplements. I taught them how to eat properly and to avoid denatured, over-processed, and adulterated foods that cause health problems. My patients have achieved tremendous improvements in their health and I never use vitamin / mineral supplements with any of them. Take a look at one of my patients at photos./alltruthfinder and you can see a woman that I helped eliminate a skin problem. Click on Ronni under my photos. Double click on the pictures to enlarge them. The first thing that I did was to stop the vitamin / mineral supplement she was taking. The next thing that I did was start her on 100% organic and wild crafted foods. I also started her on organic and wild crafted herbs. It didn't take me long to eliminate

her problem and make her look much younger. The proof is in the pictures. Take a look. If you have achieved goals similar to this, I would be glad to hear about it. I study health and nutrition on a daily basis and I seek the truth. The truth is how I achieved what I have stated above without wasting my money on synthetic vitamins that actually have been proven to cause health problems.The proof is in the pudding and I am always interested in a GOOD recipe.Jerry AndersonEd Siceloff <siceloff (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: Inadequate vitamin levels come first and foremost from a lack of proper nutrients from foods. Vitamins, whether extracted from foods, or synthetic can add some to the vitamin

supply of the body, but on the other hand, eating the right foods one can still develop vitamin, and other nutrient, deficiencies. People are not necessarily even born with perfectly operating bodies that are fully capable of digesting and metabolizing the nutrients that they get from the food supply even when the food supply is ideal (rich in vitamins, minerals, and all the other phytonutrients). Most "foods" in the present day are not grown in nutrient dense earth for the food, and thus the food is often lacking in the nutrients that the particular food might have carried even 50 years ago. And, as well, food agriculturally grown is often less dense in nutrients, usable nutrients, than are wild foods. The combination of various factors lead to the deficiencies. If an

apple has less than a tenth of the nutrients that it used to have, what does one do, eat 10 apples a day? To keep the doctor away. Multiply that with everything else one eats, and..........Obesity, same as for eating all the nutritionally empty fast foods that Americans eat. Of course one can eat one to several herbs that are not normally in the diet to take care of some deficiencies as well. We tend to eat only the herbs that we think taste good, which are generally the more empty vegetables (thinking of iceberg lettuce here as one example). One does not have to necessarily be selling vitamins or own stock in the companies that manufacture them to believe in them. The below article was also about athleticism, another artificial condition of people. To train

for high performance exercise is to increase the needs of the body beyond the normal. It may actually not be possible to reach the "high standards" in todays competitive sports, at least some, with just food intake. So, what the article is recommending vitamins for is already an unnatural status of the body. Not to say that bringing the body to a high state of agility, flexibility, reflexiveness, etc, is necessarily detrimental. For most it is, training is done for the sake of competition and not for true "body" building. And ends up doing harm to the body because there is no way one can truly eat for the body. One is out of balance towards competitiveness. Ed - Wayne Anderson Wednesday, April

18, 2007 11:47 AM Re: Vitamin Levels inadequate? Wouldn't it be wiser to investigate and find out what is causing nutrient deficiencies and then eliminate the cause rather than use the quick fix (vitamins in a pill)? Wouldn't it be wiser for a person to get their nutrients from proper food intake? Could it be that if a person is deficient in any vitamin they are eating lousy food? Are synthetic vitamins the same as natural phyto chemicals?Maybe you should study Dr. Royal Lee's work. He is considered one of the greatest nutritional scientists in the history of the world. Are you selling vitamins or do you own stock in

vitamin companies?Jerry AndersonLesley Reid <lesley.reid (AT) insightbb (DOT) com> wrote: Inadequate vitamin levels may result in poor athletic performanceActive individuals with low Vitamin B intakes may perform worse in high-intensity exercise and have a decreased ability to build and repair muscle. National B-Vitamin recommendations may be too low for active individuals. Athletes with poor or restricted diets should consider and multivitamin supplement.Active individuals lacking in B-vitamins may perform worse during high- intensity exercise and have a reduced ability to repair and build muscle than individuals with nutrient-rich diets.These B

vitamins, which include thiamin, riboflavin, vitamin B6, B12 and folate, are necessary for the body to convert proteins and sugars into energy, and are used during the production and repair of cells, including red blood cells.Researchers analyzed the diet and athletic performance of several elite and collegiate athletes, as well as less competitive individuals. Even a marginal deficiency in these nutrients negatively influenced their body's ability to repair itself, operate efficiently and fight disease. Exercise induced stress, the changes in body tissues resulting from training, increased loss of nutrients in sweat, urine and feces, and the additional nutrients needed to repair and maintain higher levels of lean tissue mass may all affect an individual's B-vitamin requirements.The researchers noted that current national B-vitamin recommendations for active individuals may be inadequate, and that chronic deficiencies could jeopardize their abilities and long-term health. Athletes and individuals with poor and restricted diets should consider a multivitamin and multimineral supplement to ensure adequacy. Kathleen Woolf; Melinda M. Manore Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2006(16) 5. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?Check out new cars at Autos. Ahhh...imagining that

irresistible "new car" smell?Check out new cars at Autos.

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out

new cars at Autos.

April 21, 2007

You're alright. We all read things with a load of other things on our mind, and then filter out some of what we read. 'nough said. I rewrote what I wrote 3 or 4 times because I thought I sounded angry. We're on the same side.

-

Wayne Anderson

Friday, April 20, 2007 11:36 PM

Re: Vitamin Levels inadequate? Ed you are probably right!

Ed,I will re-read your letter with more thought and consideration. I have my good days and days not so good. I may have read your work when my understanding was effected by some what of a negative attitude at the time. I make mistakes just like everyone else. I appologize if I have offended you.Jerry WayneEd Siceloff <siceloff (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

Wayne, you missed my agreement with you? READ:

"And, as well, food agriculturally grown is often less dense in nutrients, usable nutrients, than are wild foods. "

I said that in the first note. You appear to have not read it. It agreed with you. But I differ in relation to vitamins outside of their food context. I have seen where they have usefulness for those who are sick. Many of those people can not get enough of the nutrients they need without resorting to vitamins. The vitamins and minerals and other phytonutrients present in wildcrafted herbs are way better for you. And, to boot, they are also in an energy pattern (actually appearing as light to certain instruments) that is the usefullness of the plant. This is not there with various extracted vitamins, minerals, one or two chemical extracts, etc. But, a body will still get more for its healing from the vitamin pill, than what it does without it, especially if a person can not eat 10 apples (and yeah, I know apples are NOT wild herbs).

I'm not going to give you my testimony of my good pudding though, accomplished through my own efforts and knowledge. lol, suffice it to say that I am healthy and "alive."

And, your testimony doesn't mention whether children and family and self were perhaps born with good constitutions. There are people born with serious actual weaknesses, and proclivities towards weaknesses. I've seen, and many hundreds of others have seen, people get well using the whole variety of alternative medicine. AND there are people who die using wild crafted herbs, like Amazonian villagers who get sick. The use of wild crafted herbs alone is no guarantee of anything. Many variables enter in. There can be many variables to the success of any particular health maintenance program. The founder of Amazon Herbs tells some great stories of his own in relation to wild crafted herbs. Oops, I have a monetary consideration with them. Oh, I reckon that phd gives you a monetary consideration every bit as great as the vitamin manufacture companies and the people who sell the vitamins. You are in the business of, are you not? Or do you treat people for free.

I get my wild crafted herbs from AmazonHerb, Frontier Herb, and some other sources. I am the primary person using what I know, but, I've been blessed with seeing people that I make recommendations to in relation to what I know about them, get well from various things. I don't have huge experiences with wild crafted herbs and disease, but neither am I practicing on large amounts of people trying to make my living from it.

Oh, I have also bought formulations from Standard Process, although not from you specifically (if you sell them since it sounds like you are in practice). And, I've probably read Dr. Lee in Let's Live magazine. Nor am I casting any aspersions upon Lee, or even you. I do disagree, though, that 1. As above, vitamins and supplements in general, in a pill form, can be wonders, especially in bodies that do not get them in other ways; and, 2. I disagree that dietary deficiencies do not cause disease, which is one of the things that Lee said back in the 50s. Diseases are caused by a number of factors, including dietary deficiencies, that cause the body to exhibit disease and failure. But, dietary deficiencies do not necessarily cause disease. There can be other compensatory factors that prevent a 1 to 1 relationship between disease and dietary deficiency. But, when disease is present, I tend to think that dietary deficiency, or more particularly nutrient deficiency, is present. But, on the other hand, I tend to attribute my health to a good constitution first and foremost, and to exercise, frequent hard work and/or exercise, and fresh air (I work in forest) and sunshine, and mostly simple lifestyle. For most, we die when we quit moving.

Vitamin c certainly worked for Linus Pauling. Although some people say that since he died from cancer, it didn't. But, remember, he was in his 90s (if I remember right).

-

Wayne Anderson

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:45 PM

Re: Vitamin Levels inadequate? Attention Ed

Ed,May I suggest that you read Dr. Royal Lee's work and do a lot more research on organic and wild crafted foods versus commercial foods. You may also want to work on achieving a PhD in nutrition as I did to further your scope of nutrition, if you haven't done so. I haven't taken any synthetic vitamins in twenty years or more and I don't get sick. My wife and I haven't had the flu in over twenty years. I have three kids 25, 20, and 18 and they never spent one sick day in bed in their lives. Their teeth are awesome. I didn't feed them foods that were fortified, enriched, or loaded with a bunch of crap nor did I ever give them vitamin / mineral supplements. I taught them how to eat properly and to avoid denatured, over-processed, and adulterated foods that cause health problems. My patients have achieved tremendous improvements in their health and I never use vitamin / mineral supplements with any of them. Take a look at one of my patients at photos./alltruthfinder and you can see a woman that I helped eliminate a skin problem. Click on Ronni under my photos. Double click on the pictures to enlarge them. The first thing that I did was to stop the vitamin / mineral supplement she was taking. The next thing that I did was start her on 100% organic and wild crafted foods. I also started her on organic and wild crafted herbs. It didn't take me long to eliminate her problem and make her look much younger. The proof is in the pictures. Take a look. If you have achieved goals similar to this, I would be glad to hear about it. I study health and nutrition on a daily basis and I seek the truth. The truth is how I achieved what I have stated above without wasting my money on synthetic vitamins that actually have been proven to cause health problems.The proof is in the pudding and I am always interested in a GOOD recipe.Jerry AndersonEd Siceloff <siceloff (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

Inadequate vitamin levels come first and foremost from a lack of proper nutrients from foods. Vitamins, whether extracted from foods, or synthetic can add some to the vitamin supply of the body, but on the other hand, eating the right foods one can still develop vitamin, and other nutrient, deficiencies.

People are not necessarily even born with perfectly operating bodies that are fully capable of digesting and metabolizing the nutrients that they get from the food supply even when the food supply is ideal (rich in vitamins, minerals, and all the other phytonutrients). Most "foods" in the present day are not grown in nutrient dense earth for the food, and thus the food is often lacking in the nutrients that the particular food might have carried even 50 years ago. And, as well, food agriculturally grown is often less dense in nutrients, usable nutrients, than are wild foods.

The combination of various factors lead to the deficiencies. If an apple has less than a tenth of the nutrients that it used to have, what does one do, eat 10 apples a day? To keep the doctor away. Multiply that with everything else one eats, and..........Obesity, same as for eating all the nutritionally empty fast foods that Americans eat.

Of course one can eat one to several herbs that are not normally in the diet to take care of some deficiencies as well. We tend to eat only the herbs that we think taste good, which are generally the more empty vegetables (thinking of iceberg lettuce here as one example).

One does not have to necessarily be selling vitamins or own stock in the companies that manufacture them to believe in them. The below article was also about athleticism, another artificial condition of people. To train for high performance exercise is to increase the needs of the body beyond the normal. It may actually not be possible to reach the "high standards" in todays competitive sports, at least some, with just food intake. So, what the article is recommending vitamins for is already an unnatural status of the body. Not to say that bringing the body to a high state of agility, flexibility, reflexiveness, etc, is necessarily detrimental. For most it is, training is done for the sake of competition and not for true "body" building. And ends up doing harm to the body because there is no way one can truly eat for the body. One is out of balance towards competitiveness.

Ed

-

Wayne Anderson

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:47 AM

Re: Vitamin Levels inadequate?

Wouldn't it be wiser to investigate and find out what is causing nutrient deficiencies and then eliminate the cause rather than use the quick fix (vitamins in a pill)? Wouldn't it be wiser for a person to get their nutrients from proper food intake? Could it be that if a person is deficient in any vitamin they are eating lousy food? Are synthetic vitamins the same as natural phyto chemicals?Maybe you should study Dr. Royal Lee's work. He is considered one of the greatest nutritional scientists in the history of the world. Are you selling vitamins or do you own stock in vitamin companies?Jerry AndersonLesley Reid <lesley.reid (AT) insightbb (DOT) com> wrote:

Inadequate vitamin levels may result in poor athletic performanceActive individuals with low Vitamin B intakes may perform worse in high-intensity exercise and have a decreased ability to build and repair muscle. National B-Vitamin recommendations may be too low for active individuals. Athletes with poor or restricted diets should consider and multivitamin supplement.Active individuals lacking in B-vitamins may perform worse during high- intensity exercise and have a reduced ability to repair and build muscle than individuals with nutrient-rich diets.These B vitamins, which include thiamin, riboflavin, vitamin B6, B12 and folate, are necessary for the body to convert proteins and sugars into energy, and are used during the production and repair of cells, including red blood cells.Researchers analyzed the diet and athletic performance of several elite and collegiate athletes, as well as less competitive individuals. Even a marginal deficiency in these nutrients negatively influenced their body's ability to repair itself, operate efficiently and fight disease. Exercise induced stress, the changes in body tissues resulting from training, increased loss of nutrients in sweat, urine and feces, and the additional nutrients needed to repair and maintain higher levels of lean tissue mass may all affect an individual's B-vitamin requirements.The researchers noted that current national B-vitamin recommendations for active individuals may be inadequate, and that chronic deficiencies could jeopardize their abilities and long-term health. Athletes and individuals with poor and restricted diets should consider a multivitamin and multimineral supplement to ensure adequacy. Kathleen Woolf; Melinda M. Manore Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2006(16) 5.

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?Check out new cars at Autos.