Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 http://vitaminshoppe.com/learning/healthguide/healthguide_content.jhtml?relative\ Path=%2Fcontent%2Fhealthnotes%2FSupp%2FSAMe.htm & title=SAMe dl methionine is a precursor to SAMe that is available in pure form very inexpensively as a supplement for horses--hoof growth and protein utilization. 1/4 teaspoon is close to 1 gram, dose could be 500 mgs to 2 grams daily from what I've read http://www.petvetsupply.com/suphfpi015.html It's also used for dogs and cats to acidify urine and prevent crystals or stones from forming which is what I've used it for. I've also tried it on myself and it seems to help mood and cognition. I think it may act much like SAMe but at a much lower price. Taste is quite neutral. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 what does precursor mean ? thx deana Julie Alexander wrote: > http://vitaminshoppe.com/learning/healthguide/healthguide_content.jhtml?relative\ Path=%2Fcontent%2Fhealthnotes%2FSupp%2FSAMe.htm & title=SAMe > <http://vitaminshoppe.com/learning/healthguide/healthguide_content.jhtml?relativ\ ePath=%2Fcontent%2Fhealthnotes%2FSupp%2FSAMe.htm & title=SAMe> > dl methionine is a precursor to SAMe that is available in pure form very > inexpensively as a supplement for horses--hoof growth and protein > utilization. 1/4 teaspoon is close to 1 gram, dose could be 500 mgs to 2 > grams daily from what I've read > http://www.petvetsupply.com/suphfpi015.html > It's also used for dogs and cats to acidify urine and prevent crystals > or stones from forming which is what I've used it for. I've also tried > it on myself and it seems to help mood and cognition. I think it may act > much like SAMe but at a much lower price. Taste is quite neutral. > Julie > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any > natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician > and to > prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as > long as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products > from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > > > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 yes but it is not Sam-e so taking it trying to save money may not be the same as taking Sam-e. just my opinion hugs deana Julie Alexander wrote: > http://vitaminshoppe.com/learning/healthguide/healthguide_content.jhtml?relative\ Path=%2Fcontent%2Fhealthnotes%2FSupp%2FSAMe.htm & title=SAMe > <http://vitaminshoppe.com/learning/healthguide/healthguide_content.jhtml?relativ\ ePath=%2Fcontent%2Fhealthnotes%2FSupp%2FSAMe.htm & title=SAMe> > dl methionine is a precursor to SAMe that is available in pure form very > inexpensively as a supplement for horses--hoof growth and protein > utilization. 1/4 teaspoon is close to 1 gram, dose could be 500 mgs to 2 > grams daily from what I've read > http://www.petvetsupply.com/suphfpi015.html > It's also used for dogs and cats to acidify urine and prevent crystals > or stones from forming which is what I've used it for. I've also tried > it on myself and it seems to help mood and cognition. I think it may act > much like SAMe but at a much lower price. Taste is quite neutral. > Julie > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any > natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician > and to > prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as > long as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products > from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > > > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote: > yes but it is not Sam-e so taking it trying to save money may not be the > same as taking Sam-e. > > just my opinion > > hugs > deana > 5 htp tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin. By adding precursors to the body you give basic building blocks so the body can put together what it needs. Tyrosine and phenylalinine are precursors for noreadrenaline and dopamine. Do some web searches for possible contraindications on using dl methionine instead of SAMe. Myself, I took up to 3 1/8 teaspoon doses for several days with no detectable problem and felt mood and energy benefits. I've had dogs on similar doses adjusted for weight for up to 3 years for the urine acidification with no problems. We have very high calcium in our water and in aging dogs this seemed to lead to crystal formation in the urine. I just found some info that SAMe is methionine combined with ATP, which is produced by the body as part of energy metabolism. I mistrust many nutritional supplement companies almost as much as drug companies. Why tell you that this inexpensive pure methionine may be as effective in the long run when they can sell you bubble packed individual SAMe doses at many times the price? Tryptophan is still available in concentrated powder form as an animal supplement. I've used it myself with the same effects as tryptophan marketed for humans. Julie Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 with more explanation I now understand. Thank you so much for this. I am like you , I trust not .!! Unless it come from myself or a trusted source. Thank you Julie Hugs Deana talismandogs wrote: > herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote: > > yes but it is not Sam-e so taking it trying to save money may not > be the > > same as taking Sam-e. > > > > just my opinion > > > > hugs > > deana > > > > 5 htp tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin. By adding precursors to > the body you give basic building blocks so the body can put together > what it needs. Tyrosine and phenylalinine are precursors for > noreadrenaline and dopamine. > Do some web searches for possible contraindications on using dl > methionine instead of SAMe. Myself, I took up to 3 1/8 teaspoon doses > for several days with no detectable problem and felt mood and energy > benefits. I've had dogs on similar doses adjusted for weight for up > to 3 years for the urine acidification with no problems. We have very > high calcium in our water and in aging dogs this seemed to lead to > crystal formation in the urine. > I just found some info that SAMe is methionine combined with ATP, > which is produced by the body as part of energy metabolism. I > mistrust many nutritional supplement companies almost as much as drug > companies. Why tell you that this inexpensive pure methionine may be > as effective in the long run when they can sell you bubble packed > individual SAMe doses at many times the price? Tryptophan is still > available in concentrated powder form as an animal supplement. I've > used it myself with the same effects as tryptophan marketed for > humans. > Julie Alexander > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any > natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician > and to > prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as > long as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products > from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > > > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 where do you order a trusted methionine. and is tryptophan just another name for it ? thx deana talismandogs wrote: > herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote: > > yes but it is not Sam-e so taking it trying to save money may not > be the > > same as taking Sam-e. > > > > just my opinion > > > > hugs > > deana > > > > 5 htp tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin. By adding precursors to > the body you give basic building blocks so the body can put together > what it needs. Tyrosine and phenylalinine are precursors for > noreadrenaline and dopamine. > Do some web searches for possible contraindications on using dl > methionine instead of SAMe. Myself, I took up to 3 1/8 teaspoon doses > for several days with no detectable problem and felt mood and energy > benefits. I've had dogs on similar doses adjusted for weight for up > to 3 years for the urine acidification with no problems. We have very > high calcium in our water and in aging dogs this seemed to lead to > crystal formation in the urine. > I just found some info that SAMe is methionine combined with ATP, > which is produced by the body as part of energy metabolism. I > mistrust many nutritional supplement companies almost as much as drug > companies. Why tell you that this inexpensive pure methionine may be > as effective in the long run when they can sell you bubble packed > individual SAMe doses at many times the price? Tryptophan is still > available in concentrated powder form as an animal supplement. I've > used it myself with the same effects as tryptophan marketed for > humans. > Julie Alexander > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any > natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician > and to > prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as > long as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products > from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > > > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Please be careful with dl-methionine. This is the synthetic version of the natural l-methionine. I usually sell l-methionine for floaters in the eyes. However a metoblite of methionine is homocystene. If you are in poor health or have a family history of heart problems you may not want to take high doese of methionine. Homocystene is an independant risk factor for heart disease. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 No. Tryptophan is something entirely different. Tammi - Deana herbal remedies Wednesday, September 15, 2004 1:54 PM Re: Herbal Remedies - SAMe alternative? where do you order a trusted methionine. and is tryptophan just another name for it ?thxdeanatalismandogs wrote:> herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote:> > yes but it is not Sam-e so taking it trying to save money may not> be the> > same as taking Sam-e.> >> > just my opinion> >> > hugs> > deana> >>> 5 htp tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin. By adding precursors to> the body you give basic building blocks so the body can put together> what it needs. Tyrosine and phenylalinine are precursors for> noreadrenaline and dopamine.> Do some web searches for possible contraindications on using dl> methionine instead of SAMe. Myself, I took up to 3 1/8 teaspoon doses> for several days with no detectable problem and felt mood and energy> benefits. I've had dogs on similar doses adjusted for weight for up> to 3 years for the urine acidification with no problems. We have very> high calcium in our water and in aging dogs this seemed to lead to> crystal formation in the urine.> I just found some info that SAMe is methionine combined with ATP,> which is produced by the body as part of energy metabolism. I> mistrust many nutritional supplement companies almost as much as drug> companies. Why tell you that this inexpensive pure methionine may be> as effective in the long run when they can sell you bubble packed> individual SAMe doses at many times the price? Tryptophan is still> available in concentrated powder form as an animal supplement. I've> used it myself with the same effects as tryptophan marketed for> humans.> Julie Alexander>>>>> Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any > natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician > and to> prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as > long as> they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > person> following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.> It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products > from list members, you are agreeing to> be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > members free of any liability.>> Dr. Ian Shillington> Doctor of Naturopathy> Dr.IanShillington>> * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote: > where do you order a trusted methionine. and is tryptophan just another > name for it ? > > thx > deana This is where I bought the purest and least expensive dl methionine. http://www.petvetsupply.com/suphfpi015.html It's used for performance horses like jumpers, cutting horses or race horses. If it's good enough to go into those expensive and highly monitored horses, it's good enough to go into me. Some time back animal grade products were not as pure as human grade, now most are made by the same company and roll off in batches with different labels. here is another form for dogs, already much pricier http://store./natural-pets/me5ta.html the material safety sheet is at http://www.lloydinc.com/products_pdf/msds03/Methio-Form.pdf Tryptophan is a different amino acid. I have bought it at http://www.biochemicals.com/productpage5.php3 hmm this is interesting, I haven't looked at their site for awhile. http://www.biochemicals.com/productinfo.php3?id=50 this is listed as something to naturally increase SAMe but just did a web search and found this http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00349.html which says it turns into methionine and then into SAMe. But back to tryptophan. L trytophan was banned for human use some years ago because a contaminated batch I think imported from Japan, made several people seriously ill. It wasn't the tryptophan but the contaminant but still banned. Funny, Tylenol wasn't banned after people died because some maniacs poisoned a number of bottles. L tryptophan is available in animal grade and I've taken it myself. I don't suggest any other humans do so. But 5 htp tryptophan is the next step closer to serotonin as a precursor. It should work faster. It's more expensive per weight but may be about the same price per effective dose. This website has some good reading on all the above. I found tryptophan in either form most effective taken with a small complex carbohydrate food and a few hours before or after a protein meal. This is supposed to let it cross the blood brain barrier more easily. It is always a good idea to do your own web searches or read books written by someone with credentials. Taking amino acids alone can create imbalances as almost anything can. We're fortunate to have a vet with a sound background in nutrition. In discussing this with him, when I used tryptophan on an over excited dog, he did say tryptophan has a toxic level with I believe diarhea but only rarely saw it in cattle going onto fresh grass while still getting concentrated feed. Methionine can be overly acidifying in excess but useful in some situations. My mother had the belief that if there is a good product out, careful shopping around will get you as good a product at a better price, particullarly buying in bulk. I agree with her. I may have to work a bit at making my own tinctures but prefer the results in quality and in price. Julie Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 This is my fear of buying the tryptophan http://www.holisticmed.com/ge/trypt.html hugs Deana talismandogs wrote: > herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote: > > where do you order a trusted methionine. and is tryptophan just > another > > name for it ? > > > > thx > > deana > This is where I bought the purest and least expensive dl methionine. > http://www.petvetsupply.com/suphfpi015.html > It's used for performance horses like jumpers, cutting horses or race > horses. If it's good enough to go into those expensive and highly > monitored horses, it's good enough to go into me. Some time back > animal grade products were not as pure as human grade, now most are > made by the same company and roll off in batches with different > labels. > here is another form for dogs, already much pricier > http://store./natural-pets/me5ta.html > the material safety sheet is at > http://www.lloydinc.com/products_pdf/msds03/Methio-Form.pdf > > Tryptophan is a different amino acid. > I have bought it at http://www.biochemicals.com/productpage5.php3 > > hmm this is interesting, I haven't looked at their site for awhile. > http://www.biochemicals.com/productinfo.php3?id=50 this is listed as > something to naturally increase SAMe but just did a web search and > found this > http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00349.html which says it turns > into methionine and then into SAMe. > > But back to tryptophan. L trytophan was banned for human use some > years ago because a contaminated batch I think imported from Japan, > made several people seriously ill. It wasn't the tryptophan but the > contaminant but still banned. Funny, Tylenol wasn't banned after > people died because some maniacs poisoned a number of bottles. L > tryptophan is available in animal grade and I've taken it myself. I > don't suggest any other humans do so. But 5 htp tryptophan is the > next step closer to serotonin as a precursor. It should work faster. > It's more expensive per weight but may be about the same price per > effective dose. This website has some good reading on all the above. > > I found tryptophan in either form most effective taken with a small > complex carbohydrate food and a few hours before or after a protein > meal. This is supposed to let it cross the blood brain barrier more > easily. > > It is always a good idea to do your own web searches or read books > written by someone with credentials. Taking amino acids alone can > create imbalances as almost anything can. We're fortunate to have a > vet with a sound background in nutrition. In discussing this with > him, when I used tryptophan on an over excited dog, he did say > tryptophan has a toxic level with I believe diarhea but only rarely > saw it in cattle going onto fresh grass while still getting > concentrated feed. > > Methionine can be overly acidifying in excess but useful in some > situations. > > My mother had the belief that if there is a good product out, careful > shopping around will get you as good a product at a better price, > particullarly buying in bulk. I agree with her. I may have to work a > bit at making my own tinctures but prefer the results in quality and > in price. > > Julie Alexander > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any > natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician > and to > prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as > long as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products > from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > > > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote: > > This is my fear of buying the tryptophan > > http://www.holisticmed.com/ge/trypt.html > > hugs > Deana Yes, that was the contaminated batch I mentioned. It's not tryptophan that was at fault but the processing. Any fermented amino acid product has the potential for a similar problem. I think 5 htp tryptophan is extracted from a plant. Perhaps that was the original source and it is now a ferment product. In any case buying from a source with a good reputation will help give peace of mind. I'm not trying to promote this company, I'll buy from any company that I am persuaded has good quality products. It's only that I have found this site useful. There is so much to choose from now on the web it can be hard to sort the best from mediocre or poor. I'll alway welcome referrals to good alternate sources for products. but check out what this site says about their products. http://www.biochemicals.com/puritytesting.php3 for more info on 5 htp tryptophan, this article was interesting http://smart-drugs.net/ias-depression-JamesSouth.htm Do as much research and comparision of authorities as you have time for before making a decision to use any process that alters your body, your mind or behavior. be well, be safe, be careful Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Dunno if I posted anything like this recently, school has had me chasing my tail. I prefer whole foods to supplements. Take a carrot, for instance. Great for Vitamin A, right? That's all well and good, but isolated vitamins often leave our bodies craving the symbiotic phytochemicals that occur naturally beside the vitamins. In carrots, along with beta-carotene, you get other carotenes and other plant chemicals that do other great things for us and HELP us assimilate that Vitamin A. In fact, too high of an isolated vitamin can result in toxicity. (This isn't true for all vitamins, but it is true for some.) When you eat the foods that contain the vitamins you're after, the whole food provides everything you need to make optimum use of that vitamin, and really accomplish what the vitamin itself is known for. Instead of supplemental tryptophan, eat turkey or salmon. Both foods have LOADS of tryptophan AND protein. The protein will work on the OTHER 2 brain chemicals responsible for mood that most meds (and most people) overlook. Tryptophan works on serotonin, the brain chemical you hear the most about. That's the one the antidepressants manipulate. But most depressives are short on 2 other brain chemicals responsible for mood as well: norepinephrine and dopamine. And that's why you need the protein with the tryptophan. Protein levels out the norepinephrine and the dopamine like tryptophan works on the serotonin. If you consume both complete protein and tryptophan at the same time, you'll balance out ALL 3 main moody brain chemicals and by doing this you'll do MORE than the prescriptions which just work on 1 out of the 3. (Since when was 33% ever a PASSING grade? Why should we settle for this from what's SUPPOSED to be HEALTH care? Oh wait---never mind....what WAS I thinking?) To health, --Jen herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote: > > This is my fear of buying the tryptophan > > http://www.holisticmed.com/ge/trypt.html > > hugs > Deana > > > talismandogs wrote: > > > herbal remedies , Deana <squeekyme@c...> wrote: > > > where do you order a trusted methionine. and is tryptophan just > > another > > > name for it ? > > > > > > thx > > > deana > > This is where I bought the purest and least expensive dl methionine. > > http://www.petvetsupply.com/suphfpi015.html > > It's used for performance horses like jumpers, cutting horses or race > > horses. If it's good enough to go into those expensive and highly > > monitored horses, it's good enough to go into me. Some time back > > animal grade products were not as pure as human grade, now most are > > made by the same company and roll off in batches with different > > labels. > > here is another form for dogs, already much pricier > > http://store./natural-pets/me5ta.html > > the material safety sheet is at > > http://www.lloydinc.com/products_pdf/msds03/Methio-Form.pdf > > > > Tryptophan is a different amino acid. > > I have bought it at http://www.biochemicals.com/productpage5.php3 > > > > hmm this is interesting, I haven't looked at their site for awhile. > > http://www.biochemicals.com/productinfo.php3?id=50 this is listed as > > something to naturally increase SAMe but just did a web search and > > found this > > http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00349.html which says it turns > > into methionine and then into SAMe. > > > > But back to tryptophan. L trytophan was banned for human use some > > years ago because a contaminated batch I think imported from Japan, > > made several people seriously ill. It wasn't the tryptophan but the > > contaminant but still banned. Funny, Tylenol wasn't banned after > > people died because some maniacs poisoned a number of bottles. L > > tryptophan is available in animal grade and I've taken it myself. I > > don't suggest any other humans do so. But 5 htp tryptophan is the > > next step closer to serotonin as a precursor. It should work faster. > > It's more expensive per weight but may be about the same price per > > effective dose. This website has some good reading on all the above. > > > > I found tryptophan in either form most effective taken with a small > > complex carbohydrate food and a few hours before or after a protein > > meal. This is supposed to let it cross the blood brain barrier more > > easily. > > > > It is always a good idea to do your own web searches or read books > > written by someone with credentials. Taking amino acids alone can > > create imbalances as almost anything can. We're fortunate to have a > > vet with a sound background in nutrition. In discussing this with > > him, when I used tryptophan on an over excited dog, he did say > > tryptophan has a toxic level with I believe diarhea but only rarely > > saw it in cattle going onto fresh grass while still getting > > concentrated feed. > > > > Methionine can be overly acidifying in excess but useful in some > > situations. > > > > My mother had the belief that if there is a good product out, careful > > shopping around will get you as good a product at a better price, > > particullarly buying in bulk. I agree with her. I may have to work a > > bit at making my own tinctures but prefer the results in quality and > > in price. > > > > Julie Alexander > > > > > > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any > > natural remedy. > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician > > and to > > prescribe for your own health. > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as > > long as > > they behave themselves. > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > > person > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products > > from list members, you are agreeing to > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > > members free of any liability. > > > > Dr. Ian Shillington > > Doctor of Naturopathy > > Dr.IanShillington@G... > > > > > > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 herbal remedies , " supervixen08 " <supervixen08> wrote: > Dunno if I posted anything like this recently, school has had me > chasing my tail. > > I prefer whole foods to supplements. Take a carrot, for instance. > Great for Vitamin A, right? That's all well and good, but isolated > vitamins often leave our bodies craving the symbiotic phytochemicals > that occur naturally beside the vitamins. In carrots, along with > beta-carotene, you get other carotenes and other plant chemicals that > do other great things for us and HELP us assimilate that Vitamin A. In > fact, too high of an isolated vitamin can result in toxicity. (This > isn't true for all vitamins, but it is true for some.) When you eat > the foods that contain the vitamins you're after, the whole food > provides everything you need to make optimum use of that vitamin, and > really accomplish what the vitamin itself is known for. > > Instead of supplemental tryptophan, eat turkey or salmon. Both foods > have LOADS of tryptophan AND protein. The protein will work on the > OTHER 2 brain chemicals responsible for mood that most meds (and most > people) overlook. Tryptophan works on serotonin, the brain chemical > you hear the most about. That's the one the antidepressants > manipulate. But most depressives are short on 2 other brain chemicals > responsible for mood as well: norepinephrine and dopamine. And that's > why you need the protein with the tryptophan. Protein levels out the > norepinephrine and the dopamine like tryptophan works on the > serotonin. If you consume both complete protein and tryptophan at the > same time, you'll balance out ALL 3 main moody brain chemicals and by > doing this you'll do MORE than the prescriptions which just work on 1 > out of the 3. (Since when was 33% ever a PASSING grade? Why should we > settle for this from what's SUPPOSED to be HEALTH care? Oh > wait---never mind....what WAS I thinking?) > > To health, > --Jen Jen, I agree with much of what you said. Except that in time of imbalance, a much stronger temporary concentratet may help to rebalance. Tryptophan uptake is locked out of the brain by the presence of other amino acids. Turkey has been suggested as a good source of tryptophan but it also supplies so much of other amino acids that the tryptophan may not get to the brain as it is out competed by the other proteins. Taking 5 htp or l tryptophan with carbohydrate seems to be the most effective way to get it into the brain. I've read books on traditional chinese medicine that advocate eating carb/fat dishes separately from protein dishes. This makes sense if the tryptophan uptake is modulated by the presence of other amino acids. I found this to be the case myself. When I feel balanced, my body has an appetite for a balanced carb/protein/fat meal. When over aroused, I tend to feel an appetite for more of a carb meal or snack. When groggy, I want protein as this seems to give me sustained mental and physical energy. I have scanned some questionares that may reflect what neuro chemicals you may be low or high in. I use them to monitor my daily and long term patterns. It is not quite accurate to say that most people who are depressed are also low in dopamine and noreadrenaline. Many may have excessive noreadrenaline or normal dopamine levels. It's all very personal. Learning to eat with body wisdom is possible. Your nose and taste buds can tell you what you need when you learn to listen. A craving for sweets may mean you want serotonin or the adrenaline rush that can go with the sugar surge. Your body is a biofeedback system, learn to pay attention and give it what it really wants or needs. One person's food is another's poison. Metabolic, genetic and blood type can all influence this as can short or long term environmental factors. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2004 Report Share Posted September 18, 2004 Jen, You are correct in your basic assumption about how the body is better off with nutritional needs being met by the food we eat. However it is much more complicated than just eating the food. Your example of eating carrots is a good point. To illistrate how complicated this process is, a study released last week showed that even age and health matched individuals can have varying levels of conversion from beta-carotene to vitamin A. The doctors found that the people in their study had from ZERO to 100% conversion rates. This means that there are many people who have poorly functioning livers that cannot convert beta-carotene to vitamin A. There is no way to know this unless you are tested. As for your thoughts on depression, these too fall into the same category as the people with vitamin A. Eating foods high in tryptophan does not guarantee that it can be used by the body. It first must be converted into 5-hydroxytryptophan and then to serotonin. If the conversion process is flawed in any way, then no serotonin will be created regaredless how much tryptophan is eaten. In my store I prefer to suggests nutritional supplements along with dietary modifications for the treatment of depression. Along with 5- HTP, I usually suggest high doses of B-complex and fish oil. These two nutrients and more important than tryptophan for managing depression. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 If you don't mind me butting in, I am presently taking a 5-HTP product for depression. It says it is from griffonia simplicifolia (20-1), standardized to contain 5% (25 mg) 5-hydroxytryptophan and on the other side it says 500mg. You're instructed to take 2 capsules between meals once or twice a day. Now, from what I've read, the caution is not to take tryptophan for too long a period as to not elevate your seratonin levels too much. Could you clarify this dosing for me, please. I've only been on this particular supplement for 3 days. Also, are there any contraindications or cautions. Thanks, Pink Jen, > You are correct in your basic assumption about how the body is better > off with nutritional needs being met by the food we eat. However it > is much more complicated than just eating the food. Your example of > eating carrots is a good point. To illistrate how complicated this > process is, a study released last week showed that even age and > health matched individuals can have varying levels of conversion from > beta-carotene to vitamin A. The doctors found that the people in > their study had from ZERO to 100% conversion rates. This means that > there are many people who have poorly functioning livers that cannot > convert beta-carotene to vitamin A. There is no way to know this > unless you are tested. > > As for your thoughts on depression, these too fall into the same > category as the people with vitamin A. Eating foods high in > tryptophan does not guarantee that it can be used by the body. It > first must be converted into 5-hydroxytryptophan and then to > serotonin. If the conversion process is flawed in any way, then no > serotonin will be created regaredless how much tryptophan is eaten. > > In my store I prefer to suggests nutritional supplements along with > dietary modifications for the treatment of depression. Along with 5- > HTP, I usually suggest high doses of B-complex and fish oil. These > two nutrients and more important than tryptophan for managing > depression. > > James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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