Introduction and depression

[Guest guest]

Hi folks,

I just joined the list and found the topic of depression one near and

dear to my heart as I have had more than enough experience with it. And

found non-drug methods to balance myself.

Christy, I have deep empathy for you. When you're in such pain that you

can't cope, the fact that a drug did help makes you want to again

relieve the pain. When you're stuck, you can't get there from here. I

myself used Celexa for about 3 months 3 years ago and then found ways to

wean myself off using diet and life style changes, nutritional

supplements and as I was in perimenopause, bio-identical progesterone

cream. There is a lot that you can do to rebalance your body.

First, let's ask what do you really want with a drug? To feel better.

Celexa and Lexapro work by affecting the levels of serotonin available

to your brain's receptors for serotonin. So what you want can be

achieved by helping to raise serotonin levels and improve the

receptivity of your brain. Stress raises cortisol levels which can lock

up the receptors for serotonin and also other important neuro chemicals

like noreadrenaline and dopamine. Note, I have no medical qualification

but am a data junkie and have read about 25 books on this subject in the

past 3 years. I can get references if anyone wishes.

I found an online questionnaire that described my particular type of

neurochemical imbalance to a T. I use the questions at times to monitor

myself on a daily basis. It helps remind me what I can do when I start

to feel either too aroused or sluggish. This test is no longer on line

but I have the book and scanned the pages to pdf. files. The book has

useful information on brain chemistry but is aimed at medical solutions.

I found other things that work for me but the book was worthwhile

reading.

I have also recently found information on 'highly sensitive people' and

coping methods for our over stimulating modern environment. The book

Too Loud, Too Bright, Too Fast, Too Tight : What to Do If You Are

Sensory Defensive in an Overstimulating World by Sharon Heller has

useful information on genetic and physical reasons why some of us are

unable to cope with what others find tolerable. And non drug

interventions to help.

I've had a lifelong history of anxiety and depression with some periods

of remission. The down side of being highly sensitive. The upside is

that I am aware of many things that others are not. I wouldn't trade the

upside for not having the downside but am grateful that I finally found

the clues I needed for my own balance.

My husband and I raise dogs and so are familiar with the genetic aspect

of reactivity and response to the environment. There is a growing wealth

of information on how the number and type of neurotransmitter and

hormone receptors in each of us influences our mood, cognition, energy

and behavior. And our behavior and environment influence the bodymind. A

good friend of ours is a world class animal trainer who has worked with

zoo animals as well as horses, cats, and dogs. A specialty of hers is

teaching animals coping skills to enable them to manage their emotions

and stress levels. Some of the seals and sea lions she worked with while

at the National zoo have lived one third longer than normal and are

still healthy and alert. She believes and I agree, that overarousal is a

huge behavioral and health problem.

So what did I do? as I read and learned, for me I was in a constant

state of overarousal, with excess noradrenaline, low dopamine and most

of all, low serotonin. I at one point was going into panic attacks. And

found out that this means not that I was a scaredy cat fool, but that my

body had depleted its ability to produce calming endorphin and

enkephalins. I was going through a type of withdrawal.

Calcium is calming. When I went into hyperventilation and tried to slow

my breathing I rapidly found I would rebound into more anxiety. I read a

passage in one book that states that deep breathing removes carbon

dioxide which is acidifying to the blood. This locks out the calcium

which created my rebound. By tightening my muscles all over, breathing

high and shallow in my chest and then slowly changing my breathing, then

loosening my muscles a bit and repeating I could start to breath

normally without the rebound.

To increase serotonin levels, I ate small amounts of carbohydrate

frequently and took 5 HTP tryptophan. I took a saliva test and found my

cortisol levels were very high. phosphatidylserine helps lower cortisol.

I could feel both of these calming me down. I took adrenal cortex and

some magnesium, B6 and zinc to help support my adrenal glands. I also

took powdered GABA which is calming. And based on our friend's work with

animals and autistic children, changed my behavior and did some self

training for calmness. I had to reduce sources of arousal, no heavy

exercise for a while but stretching and yoga/tai chi type movements.

Keep exposure to music and TV limited to quiet music and feel good

movies. Limit my intake of protein as this block serotonin uptake in the

brain. Usually I do better on a higher protein diet.

The information some books had on cognitive therapy to help control

stress was a pile of crap. What was much more effective was modifying

our friend's process of managing emotions to work on myself. Small

cycles of exposure to stress while telling myself easy as I would to

calm a horse or dog with long breaks to let my arousal level drop were

much more effective.

After a few weeks, I could start to up my exercise and exposure to

arousal. I was no longer flinchy to noises and sudden movements. I was

calm but feeling a bit groggy. I added in dl phenylanine to increase

dopamine and mental clarity. Eventually I added in tyrosine which can

increase physical and mental energy but need to be careful as it can be

overarousing to me. I also found that cocoa--not chocolate, not cocoa

mix drinks, but pure powdered baking cocoa works for me as a mood

elevator and adds clarity without overarousal. I suspect the theobromine

is the key factor.

At times I also used the herbs kava kava, passion flower, damiana, and

chamomile. These enhanced the effects. However my diet and life style

changes were vital to my rebalancing.

Environmental toxins are an ever increasing problem. We are fortunate to

live in an area with low toxin load--remote mountain area, no

manufacturing or agricultural chemicals nearby, have a large organic

garden, raise our own sheep and poultry, get grain and beef straight

from the organic producers and don't need things like flea products.

Good nutrition and keeping life balanced has helped me a great deal. And

still, I'm sensitive enough to be thrown off if I am not careful.

Christy, take hope though, I know from personal experience that you can

do a lot for yourself. If you or anyone else wishes, I can send more

details either on list or by private email.

regards

Julie Alexander

[Guest guest]

Julie,

 

some of the things you said seem familiar... is your animal trainer friend, Kayce Cover?

 

-

Julie Alexander

herbal_Remedies

Monday, September 13, 2004 2:45 PM

Herbal Remedies - Introduction and depression

Hi folks,I just joined the list and found the topic of depression one near anddear to my heart as I have had more than enough experience with it. Andfound non-drug methods to balance myself.Christy, I have deep empathy for you. When you're in such pain that youcan't cope, the fact that a drug did help makes you want to againrelieve the pain. When you're stuck, you can't get there from here. Imyself used Celexa for about 3 months 3 years ago and then found ways towean myself off using diet and life style changes, nutritionalsupplements and as I was in perimenopause, bio-identical progesteronecream. There is a lot that you can do to rebalance your body.First, let's ask what do you really want with a drug? To feel better.Celexa and Lexapro work by affecting the levels of serotonin availableto your brain's receptors for serotonin. So what you want can beachieved by helping to raise serotonin levels and improve thereceptivity of your brain. Stress raises cortisol levels which can lockup the receptors for serotonin and also other important neuro chemicalslike noreadrenaline and dopamine. Note, I have no medical qualificationbut am a data junkie and have read about 25 books on this subject in thepast 3 years. I can get references if anyone wishes.I found an online questionnaire that described my particular type ofneurochemical imbalance to a T. I use the questions at times to monitormyself on a daily basis. It helps remind me what I can do when I startto feel either too aroused or sluggish. This test is no longer on linebut I have the book and scanned the pages to pdf. files. The book hasuseful information on brain chemistry but is aimed at medical solutions.I found other things that work for me but the book was worthwhilereading.I have also recently found information on 'highly sensitive people' andcoping methods for our over stimulating modern environment. The bookToo Loud, Too Bright, Too Fast, Too Tight : What to Do If You AreSensory Defensive in an Overstimulating World by Sharon Heller hasuseful information on genetic and physical reasons why some of us areunable to cope with what others find tolerable. And non druginterventions to help.I've had a lifelong history of anxiety and depression with some periodsof remission. The down side of being highly sensitive. The upside isthat I am aware of many things that others are not. I wouldn't trade theupside for not having the downside but am grateful that I finally foundthe clues I needed for my own balance.My husband and I raise dogs and so are familiar with the genetic aspectof reactivity and response to the environment. There is a growing wealthof information on how the number and type of neurotransmitter andhormone receptors in each of us influences our mood, cognition, energyand behavior. And our behavior and environment influence the bodymind. Agood friend of ours is a world class animal trainer who has worked withzoo animals as well as horses, cats, and dogs. A specialty of hers isteaching animals coping skills to enable them to manage their emotionsand stress levels. Some of the seals and sea lions she worked with whileat the National zoo have lived one third longer than normal and arestill healthy and alert. She believes and I agree, that overarousal is ahuge behavioral and health problem.So what did I do? as I read and learned, for me I was in a constantstate of overarousal, with excess noradrenaline, low dopamine and mostof all, low serotonin. I at one point was going into panic attacks. Andfound out that this means not that I was a scaredy cat fool, but that mybody had depleted its ability to produce calming endorphin andenkephalins. I was going through a type of withdrawal.Calcium is calming. When I went into hyperventilation and tried to slowmy breathing I rapidly found I would rebound into more anxiety. I read apassage in one book that states that deep breathing removes carbondioxide which is acidifying to the blood. This locks out the calciumwhich created my rebound. By tightening my muscles all over, breathinghigh and shallow in my chest and then slowly changing my breathing, thenloosening my muscles a bit and repeating I could start to breathnormally without the rebound.To increase serotonin levels, I ate small amounts of carbohydratefrequently and took 5 HTP tryptophan. I took a saliva test and found mycortisol levels were very high. phosphatidylserine helps lower cortisol.I could feel both of these calming me down. I took adrenal cortex andsome magnesium, B6 and zinc to help support my adrenal glands. I alsotook powdered GABA which is calming. And based on our friend's work withanimals and autistic children, changed my behavior and did some selftraining for calmness. I had to reduce sources of arousal, no heavyexercise for a while but stretching and yoga/tai chi type movements.Keep exposure to music and TV limited to quiet music and feel goodmovies. Limit my intake of protein as this block serotonin uptake in thebrain. Usually I do better on a higher protein diet.The information some books had on cognitive therapy to help controlstress was a pile of crap. What was much more effective was modifyingour friend's process of managing emotions to work on myself. Smallcycles of exposure to stress while telling myself easy as I would tocalm a horse or dog with long breaks to let my arousal level drop weremuch more effective.After a few weeks, I could start to up my exercise and exposure toarousal. I was no longer flinchy to noises and sudden movements. I wascalm but feeling a bit groggy. I added in dl phenylanine to increasedopamine and mental clarity. Eventually I added in tyrosine which canincrease physical and mental energy but need to be careful as it can beoverarousing to me. I also found that cocoa--not chocolate, not cocoamix drinks, but pure powdered baking cocoa works for me as a moodelevator and adds clarity without overarousal. I suspect the theobromineis the key factor.At times I also used the herbs kava kava, passion flower, damiana, andchamomile. These enhanced the effects. However my diet and life stylechanges were vital to my rebalancing.Environmental toxins are an ever increasing problem. We are fortunate tolive in an area with low toxin load--remote mountain area, nomanufacturing or agricultural chemicals nearby, have a large organicgarden, raise our own sheep and poultry, get grain and beef straightfrom the organic producers and don't need things like flea products.Good nutrition and keeping life balanced has helped me a great deal. Andstill, I'm sensitive enough to be thrown off if I am not careful.Christy, take hope though, I know from personal experience that you cando a lot for yourself. If you or anyone else wishes, I can send moredetails either on list or by private email.regardsJulie AlexanderFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

herbal remedies , " Julie Hensley " <julie@p...>

wrote:

> Julie,

>

> some of the things you said seem familiar... is your animal trainer

friend, Kayce Cover?

 

Hi there another Julie!

Yes, that's Kayce! Along with perception modification, I used her

SATS method of management on myself as well as one of our dogs who

was in over drive when we got him. He also responded to diet changes

and tryptophan. That adrenaline addiction is vicious! Raising dogs

without having them go into overdrive helps prevent behavior

problems. Kayce took home her second dog from us and says she's the

easiest transition with a dog she's had. Virtually all her other dogs

had had some issues before she got them. Duncan had problems when

returned to us before going to Kayce that resurfaced briefly with

her. This dog Callista, was raised knowing her needs would be met

without having to get overaroused and that we'd 'listen' to her when

she was communicating with us. Kayce's work with animals and humans

is really making changing in quality of life and with the rescue

groups making sure more dogs continue to have a life.

Julie, whose best friend is also a Julie, we call each other Ditto

[Guest guest]

Hello Julie Alexander,

The things you said about the supplements and such are

Exactly what I have been finding out to treat my

anxiety. What you said about the rebound effect and

the hyperventillation are also exactly what I suffer

from. Thank you so much for your post. Do you know

where I can get the supplement the you listed that

started with a P? I printed out your email to remember

the Bs and the zinc and such, thank you. When I try to

find that P supplement, I can get it in a formula, but

every formula that I've looked at contains gensing.

Gensing raises my blood pressure and causes edema for

me so it is a big no no. Thanks in advance for the

info.

 

 

=====

 

Love and Laughter,

 

Theresa M. Hook

 

hooked_on_travel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Do you know

> where I can get the supplement the you listed that

> started with a P? > Love and Laughter,

>

> Theresa M. Hook

>

> hooked_on_travel

 

Hi Theresa,

I bought the phosphatidylserine from vitaminshoppe.com They carry

quite a few brands, Solaray looked like it didn't have any extra

ingredients.

I'm glad you found ways that work for you too. And not one damn

doctor would pay attention when I tried to tell them about it. This

area is remote enough that finding an naturopath would involve a 3

hour trip each way. I couldn't get a doctor here to listen when I

talked about estrogen dominance and progesterone cream either. The

net has truly made finding information so much easier and sharing it

also. My reading took me from ADHD, anxiety, depression, ocd,

bipolar, through genetics, and studies of zoo animals with ocd like

sterotypical behaviors. Fortunately I had the time to do the reading,

find the books and lists that helped me. I realized we are our own

biofeedback systems. But often people don't want to take the time or

are very limited in time and want to get a flat tire fixed, not find

out how the tire went flat and how to avoid a flat in the future. Me,

I hated the drug side effects and wanted more control over my

bodymind.

Love and laughter back to you, that's a phrase I use a lot too.

Julie

[Guest guest]

Thank you. I read alot too. I try alot too. If a

supplement that I try has no benefits in the first 30

days, I try something new. And the reading. Thats how

I added the vit bs and the zinc. Within a week, I was

feeling so much better. My anxiety is the worst at

night after a buildup from the day. Now, I pause

during the day to regroup refocus and relax. I try to

keep the buildup down, but I still get the nervous

stomach that refuses to let me breath right. So I want

to try the phosphatidylserine.... try saying that 3x

fast... I read in your post and in other studies that

it reduces cortisol production. Someone else posted a

while back that he needed a supplement that would help

reduce the cortisol production. If you don't mind, I

will review the archives for his post and direct him

to you and your info.

 

 

=====

 

Love and Laughter,

 

Theresa M. Hook

 

hooked_on_travel