Guest guest Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Hello All, I have written before about my Dad's low blood pressure and indeed received a few responses on choices on how to address it. However, I write now on an " episode " which happened and would like to hear any thoughts and/or responses on it. I'll explain the scenario: My Dad is 70 years of age and has been bedridden for about at least 3 months (moving toward the 4th). He is in excellent health (his heart is great, no lung issues, no cancer etc.): but, he is primarily handicapped because even if he had his strength back, he would be wheelchair bound regardless. What happened a day ago is that my Mom and a helper was in his room and the helper noticed that he looked " purple " - Mom states it wasn't " purple " ., but I digress, he appeared to be " out of it " yet he did tell me that he could hear what's going on an he has mentioned " white out " to me: however, he mentioned that this time wasn't as bad as a " white out " - which I can only imagine as being a black out but without losing consciousness. Soooo., as he entered into this " episode " they took his blood pressure: 66/42, they took it again. 102/80 and then took it a third time 187/97. Now, from what I understand those three sets of blood pressure results were within a 15 minute duration (maybe 20 maximum) and of course the very low number is something we've seen before. It concerns us of course, but we know his blood pressure can be low. What really concerns me is why would his blood pressure be " ALL OF A SUDDEN " within such an extreme range? Nothing appeared to provoke it.he was at an angle in his bed, but hadn't moved or anything like that. Is such a swing in blood pressure " normal " or what other issues could there be that the doctors haven't even considered because there are no real " signs " . Is he having small strokes when he has an " episode " ? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Apologies.he's actually 79 and not 70 - a BIG typo in this case! _____ On Behalf Of Lisa Friday, October 10, 2008 7:59 PM Blood pressure issues....again Hello All, I have written before about my Dad's low blood pressure and indeed received a few responses on choices on how to address it. However, I write now on an " episode " which happened and would like to hear any thoughts and/or responses on it. I'll explain the scenario: My Dad is 70 years of age and has been bedridden for about at least 3 months (moving toward the 4th). He is in excellent health (his heart is great, no lung issues, no cancer etc.): but, he is primarily handicapped because even if he had his strength back, he would be wheelchair bound regardless. What happened a day ago is that my Mom and a helper was in his room and the helper noticed that he looked " purple " - Mom states it wasn't " purple " ., but I digress, he appeared to be " out of it " yet he did tell me that he could hear what's going on an he has mentioned " white out " to me: however, he mentioned that this time wasn't as bad as a " white out " - which I can only imagine as being a black out but without losing consciousness. Soooo., as he entered into this " episode " they took his blood pressure: 66/42, they took it again. 102/80 and then took it a third time 187/97. Now, from what I understand those three sets of blood pressure results were within a 15 minute duration (maybe 20 maximum) and of course the very low number is something we've seen before. It concerns us of course, but we know his blood pressure can be low. What really concerns me is why would his blood pressure be " ALL OF A SUDDEN " within such an extreme range? Nothing appeared to provoke it.he was at an angle in his bed, but hadn't moved or anything like that. Is such a swing in blood pressure " normal " or what other issues could there be that the doctors haven't even considered because there are no real " signs " . Is he having small strokes when he has an " episode " ? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I was a nurse for awhile several years ago Here are my ideas; see if they make any sense. Is your dad wheelchair bound because of his low blood pressure or does he have another disability? Does he have any neurological issues? It sounds like his brain is not getting enough oxygen (purple color) when he has an episode because of the low blood pressure. When I was in nursing school, they would give people with low blood pressure IV fluids. Is your dad on IV fluids? Is he getting enough fluids by mouth? Maybe his body was trying to compensate for the low blood pressure and overcompensated, causing his blood pressure to go too high. It would be interesting to know what the fourth measurement would have been. Did it go back down to near normal? What do his doctors think is causing his low blood pressure? In my experience, they would think of blood loss, internal if not external. Has that been ruled out? Has anything else been ruled out? Linda Lisa <blacksands Friday, October 10, 2008 4:58:59 PM Blood pressure issues....again Hello All, I have written before about my Dad's low blood pressure and indeed received a few responses on choices on how to address it. However, I write now on an " episode " which happened and would like to hear any thoughts and/or responses on it. I'll explain the scenario: My Dad is 70 years of age and has been bedridden for about at least 3 months (moving toward the 4th). He is in excellent health (his heart is great, no lung issues, no cancer etc.): but, he is primarily handicapped because even if he had his strength back, he would be wheelchair bound regardless. What happened a day ago is that my Mom and a helper was in his room and the helper noticed that he looked " purple " - Mom states it wasn't " purple " ., but I digress, he appeared to be " out of it " yet he did tell me that he could hear what's going on an he has mentioned " white out " to me: however, he mentioned that this time wasn't as bad as a " white out " - which I can only imagine as being a black out but without losing consciousness. Soooo., as he entered into this " episode " they took his blood pressure: 66/42, they took it again. 102/80 and then took it a third time 187/97. Now, from what I understand those three sets of blood pressure results were within a 15 minute duration (maybe 20 maximum) and of course the very low number is something we've seen before. It concerns us of course, but we know his blood pressure can be low. What really concerns me is why would his blood pressure be " ALL OF A SUDDEN " within such an extreme range? Nothing appeared to provoke it.he was at an angle in his bed, but hadn't moved or anything like that. Is such a swing in blood pressure " normal " or what other issues could there be that the doctors haven't even considered because there are no real " signs " . Is he having small strokes when he has an " episode " ? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Is he taking any medications? A homeopath, a naturopath, or an MD who is a member of ACAM might be able to help. Linda Lisa <blacksands Friday, October 10, 2008 4:58:59 PM Blood pressure issues....again Hello All, I have written before about my Dad's low blood pressure and indeed received a few responses on choices on how to address it. However, I write now on an " episode " which happened and would like to hear any thoughts and/or responses on it. I'll explain the scenario: My Dad is 70 years of age and has been bedridden for about at least 3 months (moving toward the 4th). He is in excellent health (his heart is great, no lung issues, no cancer etc.): but, he is primarily handicapped because even if he had his strength back, he would be wheelchair bound regardless. What happened a day ago is that my Mom and a helper was in his room and the helper noticed that he looked " purple " - Mom states it wasn't " purple " ., but I digress, he appeared to be " out of it " yet he did tell me that he could hear what's going on an he has mentioned " white out " to me: however, he mentioned that this time wasn't as bad as a " white out " - which I can only imagine as being a black out but without losing consciousness. Soooo., as he entered into this " episode " they took his blood pressure: 66/42, they took it again. 102/80 and then took it a third time 187/97. Now, from what I understand those three sets of blood pressure results were within a 15 minute duration (maybe 20 maximum) and of course the very low number is something we've seen before. It concerns us of course, but we know his blood pressure can be low. What really concerns me is why would his blood pressure be " ALL OF A SUDDEN " within such an extreme range? Nothing appeared to provoke it.he was at an angle in his bed, but hadn't moved or anything like that. Is such a swing in blood pressure " normal " or what other issues could there be that the doctors haven't even considered because there are no real " signs " . Is he having small strokes when he has an " episode " ? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 My dad has several problems.., neurological topping the list. He was wheelchair bound primarily because he no longer could support himself walking - although he could manage standing up in the bathroom using one arm for support. This is no longer the case. Except for one vertebrae his spine is completely fused together with titanium rods, screws and bolts. He's quite weak due to [i think] a direct result of being bedridden for the past four months - due to a fall to his knees, resulting in breaking one of them. He's lost weight.doesn't eat as much and has had a catheter for years which ultimately keeps him [iMHO] perpetually dehydrated. They are trying to get him to drink more so that is urine looks clearer rather than iced tea! There has been no additional trauma so I don't think there would be any internal bleeding - however, he does take Tylenol every evening for [back] pain. I am unsure if there was a 4th reading but I have been told that the " episode " passed fairly quickly 20 minutes, no more than 30 minutes and I can only surmise that his blood pressure did go back to " normal " - which is on the low end. It's the episodes that he has every so often that his blood pressure drops and yes they do have him on some sort of medication in the attempt to bring it up and stabilize. He's also on other meds, stool softener, osteoporosis and one or two others. For his age, he is not overmedicated like some other. He is coming home on November 6th which is wonderful, the change of scenery should be wonderful for him. He'll have familiar surroundings, all his electronic gizmos and family/friends coming and going much more frequently. I appreciate your feedback, thank you. I hope that these episodes will pass as my Mom will not know what to do if he has one while he's home. I do not want her to panic, nor do I want her to ignore them if it's leading to something that may be more serious. I LOVE this group :-) Lisa _____ On Behalf Of Linda Bumpas Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:18 PM Re: Blood pressure issues....again I was a nurse for awhile several years ago Here are my ideas; see if they make any sense. Is your dad wheelchair bound because of his low blood pressure or does he have another disability? Does he have any neurological issues? It sounds like his brain is not getting enough oxygen (purple color) when he has an episode because of the low blood pressure. When I was in nursing school, they would give people with low blood pressure IV fluids. Is your dad on IV fluids? Is he getting enough fluids by mouth? Maybe his body was trying to compensate for the low blood pressure and overcompensated, causing his blood pressure to go too high. It would be interesting to know what the fourth measurement would have been. Did it go back down to near normal? What do his doctors think is causing his low blood pressure? In my experience, they would think of blood loss, internal if not external. Has that been ruled out? Has anything else been ruled out? Linda Lisa <blacksands (AT) comcast (DOT) <blacksands%40comcast.net> net> @ <%40> Friday, October 10, 2008 4:58:59 PM Blood pressure issues....again Hello All, I have written before about my Dad's low blood pressure and indeed received a few responses on choices on how to address it. However, I write now on an " episode " which happened and would like to hear any thoughts and/or responses on it. I'll explain the scenario: My Dad is 70 years of age and has been bedridden for about at least 3 months (moving toward the 4th). He is in excellent health (his heart is great, no lung issues, no cancer etc.): but, he is primarily handicapped because even if he had his strength back, he would be wheelchair bound regardless. What happened a day ago is that my Mom and a helper was in his room and the helper noticed that he looked " purple " - Mom states it wasn't " purple " ., but I digress, he appeared to be " out of it " yet he did tell me that he could hear what's going on an he has mentioned " white out " to me: however, he mentioned that this time wasn't as bad as a " white out " - which I can only imagine as being a black out but without losing consciousness. Soooo., as he entered into this " episode " they took his blood pressure: 66/42, they took it again. 102/80 and then took it a third time 187/97. Now, from what I understand those three sets of blood pressure results were within a 15 minute duration (maybe 20 maximum) and of course the very low number is something we've seen before. It concerns us of course, but we know his blood pressure can be low. What really concerns me is why would his blood pressure be " ALL OF A SUDDEN " within such an extreme range? Nothing appeared to provoke it.he was at an angle in his bed, but hadn't moved or anything like that. Is such a swing in blood pressure " normal " or what other issues could there be that the doctors haven't even considered because there are no real " signs " . Is he having small strokes when he has an " episode " ? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 In March, my 92 y.o. mother had a similar experience while we were shopping. Paramedics were called and it took awhile to stabilize her for transport. It was called a TIA, Transient Ischemic Accident. The ER Dr. said she was about to have a full blown Stroke, but DIDN'T!! She was hospitalized for 3 days while they adjusted her heart meds and put her on a blood thinner. Her blood was so thick the heart was struggling to pump it. She looked better and felt stronger quickly. We go at least monthly to check the thickness of her blood... I THINK the test is a tinr(??) She started taking Vit B-12 and blood thickened and had to up her warfarin!!! Drs didn't believe a vit could affect her, but I took her off it and she is back on 2 Mg's. See if they will check his blood. Mama also had periods of disorientation and confusion prior to the TIA. If I hadn't called the paramedics, they hadn't taken her to ER, WE wouldn't KNOW!! It took a heart SPECIALIST to discover and treat. I don't do allopathic medicine first, but it IS what saved her life.. We celebrated her 93rd in June and she weathered Ike like a champ.. a little confusion, but hey, I was shocky too. Hope this helps. Be Blessed, Donna The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. ~~ Mahatma Ghandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 If he has neurological issues, those may be causing or contributing to his blood pressure problems. He also seems to be very dehydrated, which can also lower blood pressure. It is probably important to get more fluids into him. Has he been in a hospital or nursing home? Haven't they given him IV fluids? I'm surprised if they haven't (but I obviously don't know everything about him). The catheter isn't causing him to be dehydrated. It is only letting out fluid that is on its way out anyway. Is his output too high? Maybe his kidneys are not working normally. You might consider whether any of the meds he is taking could have side effects which are affecting his blood pressure or fluid status. They should instruct your mom on how to care for him when he goes home and what to do if he has an episode. If they don't do that well enough, ask questions! I would recommend a homeopath or MD who is a member of ACAM. Linda Lisa <blacksands Monday, October 13, 2008 10:25:01 AM RE: Blood pressure issues....again My dad has several problems.., neurological topping the list. He was wheelchair bound primarily because he no longer could support himself walking - although he could manage standing up in the bathroom using one arm for support. This is no longer the case. Except for one vertebrae his spine is completely fused together with titanium rods, screws and bolts. He's quite weak due to [i think] a direct result of being bedridden for the past four months - due to a fall to his knees, resulting in breaking one of them. He's lost weight.doesn' t eat as much and has had a catheter for years which ultimately keeps him [iMHO] perpetually dehydrated. They are trying to get him to drink more so that is urine looks clearer rather than iced tea! There has been no additional trauma so I don't think there would be any internal bleeding - however, he does take Tylenol every evening for [back] pain. I am unsure if there was a 4th reading but I have been told that the " episode " passed fairly quickly 20 minutes, no more than 30 minutes and I can only surmise that his blood pressure did go back to " normal " - which is on the low end. It's the episodes that he has every so often that his blood pressure drops and yes they do have him on some sort of medication in the attempt to bring it up and stabilize. He's also on other meds, stool softener, osteoporosis and one or two others. For his age, he is not overmedicated like some other. He is coming home on November 6th which is wonderful, the change of scenery should be wonderful for him. He'll have familiar surroundings, all his electronic gizmos and family/friends coming and going much more frequently. I appreciate your feedback, thank you. I hope that these episodes will pass as my Mom will not know what to do if he has one while he's home. I do not want her to panic, nor do I want her to ignore them if it's leading to something that may be more serious. I LOVE this group :-) Lisa _____ [] On Behalf Of Linda Bumpas Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:18 PM Re: Blood pressure issues....again I was a nurse for awhile several years ago Here are my ideas; see if they make any sense. Is your dad wheelchair bound because of his low blood pressure or does he have another disability? Does he have any neurological issues? It sounds like his brain is not getting enough oxygen (purple color) when he has an episode because of the low blood pressure. When I was in nursing school, they would give people with low blood pressure IV fluids. Is your dad on IV fluids? Is he getting enough fluids by mouth? Maybe his body was trying to compensate for the low blood pressure and overcompensated, causing his blood pressure to go too high. It would be interesting to know what the fourth measurement would have been. Did it go back down to near normal? What do his doctors think is causing his low blood pressure? In my experience, they would think of blood loss, internal if not external. Has that been ruled out? Has anything else been ruled out? Linda Lisa <blacksands@ comcast. <blacksands% 40comcast. net> net> @ <Alternative Answers%40g roups.com> . com Friday, October 10, 2008 4:58:59 PM Blood pressure issues....again Hello All, I have written before about my Dad's low blood pressure and indeed received a few responses on choices on how to address it. However, I write now on an " episode " which happened and would like to hear any thoughts and/or responses on it. I'll explain the scenario: My Dad is 70 years of age and has been bedridden for about at least 3 months (moving toward the 4th). He is in excellent health (his heart is great, no lung issues, no cancer etc.): but, he is primarily handicapped because even if he had his strength back, he would be wheelchair bound regardless. What happened a day ago is that my Mom and a helper was in his room and the helper noticed that he looked " purple " - Mom states it wasn't " purple " ., but I digress, he appeared to be " out of it " yet he did tell me that he could hear what's going on an he has mentioned " white out " to me: however, he mentioned that this time wasn't as bad as a " white out " - which I can only imagine as being a black out but without losing consciousness. Soooo., as he entered into this " episode " they took his blood pressure: 66/42, they took it again. 102/80 and then took it a third time 187/97. Now, from what I understand those three sets of blood pressure results were within a 15 minute duration (maybe 20 maximum) and of course the very low number is something we've seen before. It concerns us of course, but we know his blood pressure can be low. What really concerns me is why would his blood pressure be " ALL OF A SUDDEN " within such an extreme range? Nothing appeared to provoke it.he was at an angle in his bed, but hadn't moved or anything like that. Is such a swing in blood pressure " normal " or what other issues could there be that the doctors haven't even considered because there are no real " signs " . Is he having small strokes when he has an " episode " ? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Thank you Linda for all your feedback, my Dad has been in a nursing home for the past three months due to not responding well enough to PT at Health South. He is not receiving any IV fluids, although they have been asking him (giving him) additional fluids - OJ.., during the day to increase his output. His output looks lighter in color, rather than the historic " iced tea " dark that he's had previously. He's always been a " light " drinker in that regard. His neurological issues are definitely a very big part of his blood pressure problems and it's our attempt in getting him back to where he was before he broke his knee and entered into the hospital (then Health South and ultimately the nursing home). This would be where he could at the very least get into a wheelchair and/or chair and sit upright without his blood pressure dropping so low that he passes out. One of his issues, that I learned today is that his body takes a longer time to respond to change i.e. when using the tilt table they can adjust him up 5 degrees and take his pressure and it will be normal, and they'll wait 5 minutes or so - then start to increase him up again only for his blood pressure to " catch up " to the first move. I agree with you completely that having him increase his fluid intake can only help. In discussion today, none of his other meds have adverse blood pressure side effects (but rather your " normal " ones of nausea, stomach upset, headache etc.) We are on the right track as far as finding out how to care for him by going to the nursing home and seeing what's done on a day to day basis and also taking on some responsibility in-house there to be taught, critiqued and assisted on what's best and why. We are definitely on our way - it just would be nice if we could stabilize his blood pressure better so we could get him into a wheelchair even if we have to get a Hoyer lift to assist. Thank so much. Lisa P.S. Anybody ever deal with medicare on getting a reverse Trendalenberg hospital bed approved? They'll pay for a " regular " hospital bed, but since using a tilt table at home is not realistic having one of these types of bed would be extremely beneficial. Anybody out there have the inside scoop????? _____ On Behalf Of Linda Bumpas Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:25 AM Re: Blood pressure issues....again If he has neurological issues, those may be causing or contributing to his blood pressure problems. He also seems to be very dehydrated, which can also lower blood pressure. It is probably important to get more fluids into him. Has he been in a hospital or nursing home? Haven't they given him IV fluids? I'm surprised if they haven't (but I obviously don't know everything about him). The catheter isn't causing him to be dehydrated. It is only letting out fluid that is on its way out anyway. Is his output too high? Maybe his kidneys are not working normally. You might consider whether any of the meds he is taking could have side effects which are affecting his blood pressure or fluid status. They should instruct your mom on how to care for him when he goes home and what to do if he has an episode. If they don't do that well enough, ask questions! I would recommend a homeopath or MD who is a member of ACAM. Linda Lisa <blacksands (AT) comcast (DOT) <blacksands%40comcast.net> net> @ <%40> Monday, October 13, 2008 10:25:01 AM RE: Blood pressure issues....again My dad has several problems.., neurological topping the list. He was wheelchair bound primarily because he no longer could support himself walking - although he could manage standing up in the bathroom using one arm for support. This is no longer the case. Except for one vertebrae his spine is completely fused together with titanium rods, screws and bolts. He's quite weak due to [i think] a direct result of being bedridden for the past four months - due to a fall to his knees, resulting in breaking one of them. He's lost weight.doesn' t eat as much and has had a catheter for years which ultimately keeps him [iMHO] perpetually dehydrated. They are trying to get him to drink more so that is urine looks clearer rather than iced tea! There has been no additional trauma so I don't think there would be any internal bleeding - however, he does take Tylenol every evening for [back] pain. I am unsure if there was a 4th reading but I have been told that the " episode " passed fairly quickly 20 minutes, no more than 30 minutes and I can only surmise that his blood pressure did go back to " normal " - which is on the low end. It's the episodes that he has every so often that his blood pressure drops and yes they do have him on some sort of medication in the attempt to bring it up and stabilize. He's also on other meds, stool softener, osteoporosis and one or two others. For his age, he is not overmedicated like some other. He is coming home on November 6th which is wonderful, the change of scenery should be wonderful for him. He'll have familiar surroundings, all his electronic gizmos and family/friends coming and going much more frequently. I appreciate your feedback, thank you. I hope that these episodes will pass as my Mom will not know what to do if he has one while he's home. I do not want her to panic, nor do I want her to ignore them if it's leading to something that may be more serious. I LOVE this group :-) Lisa _____ [] On Behalf Of Linda Bumpas Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:18 PM Re: Blood pressure issues....again I was a nurse for awhile several years ago Here are my ideas; see if they make any sense. Is your dad wheelchair bound because of his low blood pressure or does he have another disability? Does he have any neurological issues? It sounds like his brain is not getting enough oxygen (purple color) when he has an episode because of the low blood pressure. When I was in nursing school, they would give people with low blood pressure IV fluids. Is your dad on IV fluids? Is he getting enough fluids by mouth? Maybe his body was trying to compensate for the low blood pressure and overcompensated, causing his blood pressure to go too high. It would be interesting to know what the fourth measurement would have been. Did it go back down to near normal? What do his doctors think is causing his low blood pressure? In my experience, they would think of blood loss, internal if not external. Has that been ruled out? Has anything else been ruled out? Linda Lisa <blacksands@ comcast. <blacksands% 40comcast. net> net> @ <Alternative Answers%40g roups.com> . com Friday, October 10, 2008 4:58:59 PM Blood pressure issues....again Hello All, I have written before about my Dad's low blood pressure and indeed received a few responses on choices on how to address it. However, I write now on an " episode " which happened and would like to hear any thoughts and/or responses on it. I'll explain the scenario: My Dad is 70 years of age and has been bedridden for about at least 3 months (moving toward the 4th). He is in excellent health (his heart is great, no lung issues, no cancer etc.): but, he is primarily handicapped because even if he had his strength back, he would be wheelchair bound regardless. What happened a day ago is that my Mom and a helper was in his room and the helper noticed that he looked " purple " - Mom states it wasn't " purple " ., but I digress, he appeared to be " out of it " yet he did tell me that he could hear what's going on an he has mentioned " white out " to me: however, he mentioned that this time wasn't as bad as a " white out " - which I can only imagine as being a black out but without losing consciousness. Soooo., as he entered into this " episode " they took his blood pressure: 66/42, they took it again. 102/80 and then took it a third time 187/97. Now, from what I understand those three sets of blood pressure results were within a 15 minute duration (maybe 20 maximum) and of course the very low number is something we've seen before. It concerns us of course, but we know his blood pressure can be low. What really concerns me is why would his blood pressure be " ALL OF A SUDDEN " within such an extreme range? Nothing appeared to provoke it.he was at an angle in his bed, but hadn't moved or anything like that. Is such a swing in blood pressure " normal " or what other issues could there be that the doctors haven't even considered because there are no real " signs " . Is he having small strokes when he has an " episode " ? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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