Guest guest Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Hi Cindy- My sister has bad asthma. I put her through a program. Previously she needed her inhaler 3 times a day. Now she uses it once or twice a month and is continuing to improve. You need to do a total body cleanse as per the instructions in the files. You should also be taking Lobelia and the Huff and Puff formulas (Lobelia and Mullein) 3 or more times a day. Also use a small amount of the herbal snuff, 3 times day as well. The other thing that my sister did and is doing is to put 100% pure Eucalyptus oil in some steaming water and inhale into the lungs. This may make you wheezy in the beginning.....you can actually put the oil on a towel and inhale through your mouth for the first few weeks...and the more I think about it, I strongly recommend starting this way. Hot/Cold showers with the water focusing on your lungs with help move things around and circulate all the good nutrients you put in your body to the places it needs to go....At least once a day for these... My sister has gone through 3 times where she felt like she had pneumonia during her healing period. This is called a healing reaction and you can expect something like this. If this happens up your hot/cold showers to as many as you can take a day and supplement yourself with fresh raw fruit and vegetable juices.....and don't take antibiotics....avoid your inhaler and steroids as much as you can.... I am sure you have questions so fire away and I will do my best to help Rob herbal remedies [herbal remedies ]On Behalf Of cyndabar001Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:19 PMherbal remedies Subject: Herbal Remedies - AsthmaHi there: I am a 43 year old woman who has suffered from asthma since childhood. My symptoms did seem to abate during my teens and early 20's but recurred in full force over the last 20 years. I am now classified as a severe asthmatic and have gone thru all of the "hoops", including emergency room visits, various puffers, as well as many stints on prednisone. I am well-aware of the side effects of prednisone, and would like to get on a program that will strengthen my lungs and well as repair my adrenal function ( which the prednisone plays havoc with). Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.Cindy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Lobelia is your best remedy for Asthma! The recipe is in the files. It will stop an attack in seconds. I haven't personally tried it, but a friend of mine did, and she now swears by it! love Lisa de Haas Senior Moderator - " Marci " <twilli55 <herbal remedies > Saturday, April 08, 2006 11:55 PM Herbal Remedies - Asthma >I had exercise induced asthma(it was thought that) when I was a > teenager through about 20yo. That was 13 years ago. I recently started > eating carrots only to find out from my mother that she thinks i'm > allergic to them as I used to violently vomit when I was younger. 2 > days ago, i started having episodes where I could not catch my breath > and it feels like someone sitting on my chest. Haven't slept much > because I wake up needing a breath. It got so bad today I went to a > clinic (I felt sooo faint). She said my heart and lungs sounded fine > but of course by then I was feeling a little better. She gave me an > inhaler and a dose pack of which have 7000 side effects I found out > and i'm very sensitive to meds. I got a homeopathic allergy remedy > that is for asthma/respiratory per the advice of the store owner. It > seems to work pretty well but I only took 1/2 a dose because I > always " test the water " first. Does this sound normal that it could be > reoccuring now? And is there anything herbal that can help? Can I put > that deep tissue oil or vicks on my chest for the discomfort? I am > completely new to this-it's been years and even back then it wasn't > bad. I do take my TN every day...any advice??? > > Marci > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural > remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and > to > prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long > as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from > list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 I have read doing a Lobelia Purge, drink enough lobelia till you throw up and that will help pull all that dryed up gunk off the lung walls. Gina"Lisa de Haas@Wanadoo" <lisa wrote: Lobelia is your best remedy for Asthma! The recipe is in the files. It will stop an attack in seconds. I haven't personally tried it, but a friend of mine did, and she now swears by it!loveLisa de HaasSenior Moderator- "Marci" <twilli55<herbal remedies >Saturday, April 08, 2006 11:55 PMHerbal Remedies - Asthma>> Have a Happy and Healthy Day, Gina Kopera Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Thank you so much! Since I don't have the time right now to make it I will just order it from Doc...how much do you take? Marci herbal remedies , " Lisa de Haas " <lisa wrote: > > Lobelia is your best remedy for Asthma! The recipe is in the files. It will > stop an attack in seconds. I haven't personally tried it, but a friend of > mine did, and she now swears by it! > > love > Lisa de Haas > Senior Moderator > > - > " Marci " <twilli55 > <herbal remedies > > Saturday, April 08, 2006 11:55 PM > Herbal Remedies - Asthma > > > >I had exercise induced asthma(it was thought that) when I was a > > teenager through about 20yo. That was 13 years ago. I recently started > > eating carrots only to find out from my mother that she thinks i'm > > allergic to them as I used to violently vomit when I was younger. 2 > > days ago, i started having episodes where I could not catch my breath > > and it feels like someone sitting on my chest. Haven't slept much > > because I wake up needing a breath. It got so bad today I went to a > > clinic (I felt sooo faint). She said my heart and lungs sounded fine > > but of course by then I was feeling a little better. She gave me an > > inhaler and a dose pack of which have 7000 side effects I found out > > and i'm very sensitive to meds. I got a homeopathic allergy remedy > > that is for asthma/respiratory per the advice of the store owner. It > > seems to work pretty well but I only took 1/2 a dose because I > > always " test the water " first. Does this sound normal that it could be > > reoccuring now? And is there anything herbal that can help? Can I put > > that deep tissue oil or vicks on my chest for the discomfort? I am > > completely new to this-it's been years and even back then it wasn't > > bad. I do take my TN every day...any advice??? > > > > Marci > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural > > remedy. > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and > > to > > prescribe for your own health. > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long > > as > > they behave themselves. > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any > > person > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from > > list members, you are agreeing to > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and > > members free of any liability. > > > > Dr. Ian Shillington > > Doctor of Naturopathy > > Dr.IanShillington > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Hi Marci, You take 1 - 2 dropperfuls 3-4 times per day. Here is also an article written by Doc about Lobelia! enjoy! love Lisa There are two herbal tinctures that you simply must have on hand: Cayenne tincture and Lobelia tincture!!! Cayenne prevents people from fainting or going unconscious, and pulls people out of heart attacks and strokes by dilating blood vessels thereby reducing or eliminating brain damage. Lobelia stops full body spasms (such as seizures resulting from Parkinson's or Epilepsy), asthma attacks, and opens the bronchial tubes to ease breathing. The famous herbalist, Samuel Thompson, used these two herbs more than any others. With these herbs, it is conservatively estimated he helped well over three hundred thousand people recover from their various illnesses. I'll explain more about how he did this in a minute. The medical warnings over supposed "lobelia toxicity" are completely false. There are no real side effects to this unbelievable herb. Lobelia is a brilliant herb, even for kids, as it opens the sinuses and gets them breathing, even when heavily asthmatic. I used it on our, Bryan, when he was stung by a Stingray and it calmed him down in a few seconds. I would guess that very few of you have ever thought much about the subject of throwing up, vomiting, heaving, puking or whatever you wish to call it. Revolting subjects like this do not usually get much attention or discussion. However, besides the positive effect of the body ejecting something from the stomach that it wishes to get rid of for whatever reason including food poisoning, there are other positive effects created that I'd like to explain to you. When your stomach contracts to squeeze its contents out, this puts pressure on the lungs and squeezes them as well and can help them get rid of any unwanted fluids, phlegm and even tumors. Furthermore, the body's ability to vomit creates strong vibrations in the surrounding glands and these low level pulsations are extremely beneficial to the healthy operation and well being of these organs. Guess what? Lobelia in a large enough dose will cause this vomiting. Lobelia has a substance in it called Lobeline that first dilates the bronchial tubes and relaxes the body. In larger doses it stimulates the 10th cranial nerve, the Vagus, to such a degree that you vomit. The lungs get squeezed and compressed, and any fluid in them comes out with the vomit. What we're doing here is creating a purge to really clean out the lungs for people who have severe lung problems. Everyone has a different tolerance level to Lobelia and different amounts they would need to take to cause this vomiting effect. So Samuel Thompson would determine how much Lobelia a patient needed to take and then start in on his procedure that he called "Purge and Puke”. After this was accomplished, he would then give them Cayenne to bring them back to the planet. Some people might think this sounds very uncomfortable and radical as an emergency procedure, however compare and consider the medical alternative of cutting a 4 inch incision through your side and inserting a tube into your lungs to drain the fluid out. I think I'd prefer using the Lobelia. Can you imagine healing over three hundred thousand people of many different diseases using mainly these two herbs?? This is a marvellous herb and should be in every First-Aid kit without fail. Copyright@ 2003 by Ian Shillington N.D. All rights reserved - "Marci" <twilli55 <herbal remedies > Sunday, April 09, 2006 1:16 PM Re: Herbal Remedies - Asthma > Thank you so much! Since I don't have the time right now to make it I > will just order it from Doc...how much do you take?> > Marci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Hi, I also have severe allegies and asthma. I find drinking pepermint tea several times a day helps allot for me. I grow my own peppermint and use fresh leaves for the tea but you can also buy pepermint anywhere that sells herbs. AngieJayna Graham <jaynawinchester wrote: Hello, I have a friend who has severe asthma and allergies, so the two seem to flare up together. She is allergic to all sorts of things, pollen, dog, wool, mold to name a few. Is there an herb/herbs she could take, tea should drink, what are the forms of the herbs, where can she get them? Thanks, oh just for a little more info we live in southeastern Michigan, should that help your response. Have a question? Canada Answers. Go to Canada Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Here are a few things that help on a daily basis 200 mg selenium 400-600 mg of magnesium 2,000-4,000 mg of vitamin C licorce root reduces inflammation lobelia -------------- Original message -------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 you should go to forooghi street and by your herbs from bahar drugstoreSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Onions are the Victorian cure, what doctors give, I did not care much for it. Egyptians would eat halve an onion. That is how I cured my asthma. On air cleaners, maybe we all need one, and de-humidifiers (which can remove dirt, because dirt and pollen clings to water. On 5/2/06, danial golbidi <dgol12345 wrote: you should go to forooghi street and by your herbs from bahar drugstoreSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian Shillington Doctor of Naturopathy Dr.IanShillington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 How about this one http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/556739?src=mp - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:48 PM Electroacupuncture a European thing? Hi All, & Attilio, Attilio wrote: > I don't know about categorising Electroacupuncture as a European > thing. I saw plenty of it whilst I was in China. Generally, UK > practitioners are reluctant to use it. It is because of a lack of > training and practice. That's probably why David Mayor's new book > 'Electroacupuncture' is so popular. Kind regards, Attilio D'Alberto David Mayor's book is awesome in int coverage of electroacupuncture [ http://www.welwynacupuncture.co.uk/electro-acupuncture.asp ]. My review of it is: This work is a masterpiece, an amazing achievement. It is the deepest and most critical assessment of the international literature to date. It is a labour of love that took nine years of painstaking research to compile. Hearty congratulations to its author and his team of expert contributers! That said, when I was in Taiwan in 1982, I saw electroacupuncture stimulators in every clinic that I visited, but they were rarely used. See The Taiwan Report: http://users.med.auth.gr/~karanik/english/vet/taiwan1.htm Extract: AP and allied techniques in clinical practice: Considerable variation exists in the choice of points for therapy and in the methods of manipulating the needles. In general, I saw very little use of electro-AP (although the stimulators were freely available in every clinic visited). There was general agreement that manual needling alone was as good as, or better, than electro-needling for most conditions requiring AP. Exceptions are (a) in AP analgesia before surgery (not witnessed) and (b) in certain chronic conditions, especially paralysis/paresis after CVA or nerve injury. I used electroacupuncture before going to Taiwan but use it rarely since then, except for indications (a) and (b) mentioned above. In my experience (in humans and animals) simple needling of relevant acupoints is sufficient to activate the acupuncture response. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Sounds like she has poor digestion and can't digest the yin tonics. Try just give fu ling for a little while then switch to easy to digest yin tonics. American ginseng is non-cloying, but only the high quality is worth using and its expensive. ______________________________\ ____ oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile./mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Hi Satya, I don't consider asthma one of my therapeutic specialties, but I can provide just a little bit of insight in to how we would go about narrowing down the herbal formula for your son. Firstly, if you don't know this, there are many many different formulas for " asthma " . We determine which formula applies to an individual based on their constitution and how the asthma presents because there are quite a few different flavors of just about every problem you can think of including allergies/asthma. When it comes to kids, many TCM practitioners will begin by assessing the constitution of the child. We describe them as " excess " and " deficiency " (or excessive and deficient). So, a child who has an excessive constitution will get his asthma *really bad* for a *short amount of time* and then it will pass. While a child with a deficient constitution will get asthma that is somewhat *low grade* that will take a *long time* for your child to get over. ** Excess kids will be really loud criers while deficient kids will cry with less volume and passion. There are some other indications too that differentiate excess and deficiency too, quite a few really. That being known, the formula for *your son's* asthma can be better determined. Of course there are kids that have components of both excess and deficiency too. In fact, it is kind of rare to find anyone who is all one or the other. Lacking that information, here's the name of a formula that a lot of people use for season allergies, it is pretty benign, there are no ingredients that anybody has a problem with (to my knowledge). It is called Yu Ping Feng San. This translates to " Jade Windscreen Powder " . That last word may change depending on the form of the formula that you find (san, tang, wan, pian, etc.) " Jade " is a term used in Chinese to denote value or quality. We'd say " golden " in English. " Windscreen " implies something that can keep out wind. Wind is the assumed cause of allergies during the spring, so a windscreen makes a lot of sense. There are only three herbs in this formula. Huang Qi (astragalus), Bai Zhu (atractylodis), and Fang Feng (saposhnikoviae). It's a good formula with a reasonably mild taste that can be added to food or drink for your son. This isn't something that you take during an asthma attack, but in anticipation of an attack. Your son may need to be on this for a few months before a real difference is noticeable. If you start giving it to him now, you may see some benefit this coming allergy season. This formula is essentially an immune system boost. The astute observer might ask if an allergic response would benefit by a boost to the immune system, shouldn't we be turning the immune response down? Isn't that what allergies are? Well, yes, but " immune system " is really just a term we use for the benefit of the English speaking world. What we're really doing with this formula is strengthening the digestion (bai zhu) and " wei qi " (huang qi) which circulates in the skin to keep or push out (fang feng) the allergens so the body's immune system doesn't react. During an attack, we'd have to know the color of the sputum and a few other items to arrive at just the right formula for him. A lot of TCM people ask if the wheezing is worse during inhalation (Kidney deficiency) or exhalation (Lung excess). This is a nice example of yin/yang theory applied to diagnostics, but I don't honestly find it too clinically valuable. I have had very few cases where this particular bit of information has really informed the diagnosis. But it is easy to remember and so students of TCM latch on to this rather tightly. If any of the practitioners on this list have used this information successfully, then I stand corrected, but I just don't give it that much weight. -al. On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:56 PM, email_great <email_great wrote: > My son is 5 yrs old and has had a terrible time with seasonal > allergies this year. He tends to develop asthma very easily froms > colds/coughs. I am wondering about strategies/remedies folks have used > for managing their asthma with TCM. Ideas greatly welcome. > > Thanks > Satya > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 I realize this message is very old but you should strongly consider qi gong massage for your son, I do it to mine for his asthma , he coughs like crazy when I'm doing it but it has helped him a lot. It doesn't look like 'massage because you're kind of hitting his back/hard tapping with your hands in various positions and on the front too. Acupressure to lung point 1 is also very good. Some people feel anyone with asthma should have their kidney treated as well as the kidney grabs the lung qi for inspiration and if the kidney isn't doing that then their will shortness of breath, potentially asthma. Anyway qi gong massage and qi gong in general is amazing. I don't know if he is old enough to tolerate acupuncture but he could certainly tolerate acupressure and other forms of massage. Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine ] On Behalf Of Al Stone Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:42 AM Chinese Traditional Medicine Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Hi Satya, I don't consider asthma one of my therapeutic specialties, but I can provide just a little bit of insight in to how we would go about narrowing down the herbal formula for your son. Firstly, if you don't know this, there are many many different formulas for " asthma " . We determine which formula applies to an individual based on their constitution and how the asthma presents because there are quite a few different flavors of just about every problem you can think of including allergies/asthma. When it comes to kids, many TCM practitioners will begin by assessing the constitution of the child. We describe them as " excess " and " deficiency " (or excessive and deficient). So, a child who has an excessive constitution will get his asthma *really bad* for a *short amount of time* and then it will pass. While a child with a deficient constitution will get asthma that is somewhat *low grade* that will take a *long time* for your child to get over. ** Excess kids will be really loud criers while deficient kids will cry with less volume and passion. There are some other indications too that differentiate excess and deficiency too, quite a few really. That being known, the formula for *your son's* asthma can be better determined. Of course there are kids that have components of both excess and deficiency too. In fact, it is kind of rare to find anyone who is all one or the other. Lacking that information, here's the name of a formula that a lot of people use for season allergies, it is pretty benign, there are no ingredients that anybody has a problem with (to my knowledge). It is called Yu Ping Feng San. This translates to " Jade Windscreen Powder " . That last word may change depending on the form of the formula that you find (san, tang, wan, pian, etc.) " Jade " is a term used in Chinese to denote value or quality. We'd say " golden " in English. " Windscreen " implies something that can keep out wind. Wind is the assumed cause of allergies during the spring, so a windscreen makes a lot of sense. There are only three herbs in this formula. Huang Qi (astragalus), Bai Zhu (atractylodis), and Fang Feng (saposhnikoviae). It's a good formula with a reasonably mild taste that can be added to food or drink for your son. This isn't something that you take during an asthma attack, but in anticipation of an attack. Your son may need to be on this for a few months before a real difference is noticeable. If you start giving it to him now, you may see some benefit this coming allergy season. This formula is essentially an immune system boost. The astute observer might ask if an allergic response would benefit by a boost to the immune system, shouldn't we be turning the immune response down? Isn't that what allergies are? Well, yes, but " immune system " is really just a term we use for the benefit of the English speaking world. What we're really doing with this formula is strengthening the digestion (bai zhu) and " wei qi " (huang qi) which circulates in the skin to keep or push out (fang feng) the allergens so the body's immune system doesn't react. During an attack, we'd have to know the color of the sputum and a few other items to arrive at just the right formula for him. A lot of TCM people ask if the wheezing is worse during inhalation (Kidney deficiency) or exhalation (Lung excess). This is a nice example of yin/yang theory applied to diagnostics, but I don't honestly find it too clinically valuable. I have had very few cases where this particular bit of information has really informed the diagnosis. But it is easy to remember and so students of TCM latch on to this rather tightly. If any of the practitioners on this list have used this information successfully, then I stand corrected, but I just don't give it that much weight. -al. On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:56 PM, email_great <email_great <email_great%40> > wrote: > My son is 5 yrs old and has had a terrible time with seasonal > allergies this year. He tends to develop asthma very easily froms > colds/coughs. I am wondering about strategies/remedies folks have used > for managing their asthma with TCM. Ideas greatly welcome. > > Thanks > Satya > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Great submission here from Nancy. My son's healthcare provider also suggested to do guasha (LIGHTLY) with aromatic oils (test these for allergies) and pinching a fold of skin with both hands and pulling down. It's a massage technique that helps with constrictions and gets blood flow going. Unless there is serious labored breathing then these alternatives used consistently will provide great benefit. If there is paroxomal or labored breathing then they must be cared for immediately but after the crisis passes, do the qigong and massage and oils. Check their environment for allergens and keep the home as dust and other identified allergens free as possible. In Health Pete - Nancy Tice Chinese Traditional Medicine Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:17 PM RE: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma I realize this message is very old but you should strongly consider qi gong massage for your son, I do it to mine for his asthma , he coughs like crazy when I'm doing it but it has helped him a lot. It doesn't look like 'massage because you're kind of hitting his back/hard tapping with your hands in various positions and on the front too. Acupressure to lung point 1 is also very good. Some people feel anyone with asthma should have their kidney treated as well as the kidney grabs the lung qi for inspiration and if the kidney isn't doing that then their will shortness of breath, potentially asthma. Anyway qi gong massage and qi gong in general is amazing. I don't know if he is old enough to tolerate acupuncture but he could certainly tolerate acupressure and other forms of massage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Nurture Earth, this way you will nurture Metal. ACUDOYLE escribi�: Great submission here from Nancy. My son's healthcare provider also suggested to do guasha (LIGHTLY) with aromatic oils (test these for allergies) and pinching a fold of skin with both hands and pulling down. It's a massage technique that helps with constrictions and gets blood flow going. Unless there is serious labored breathing then these alternatives used consistently will provide great benefit. If there is paroxomal or labored breathing then they must be cared for immediately but after the crisis passes, do the qigong and massage and oils. Check their environment for allergens and keep the home as dust and other identified allergens free as possible. In Health Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Yes I forgot to add we have an 'air exchanger' in my son's room and an air filter in the house. My son BEGS for the qi gong massage. I'm not too thrilled with his pulse so I've been trying to learn massage techniques to improve his 'essence'. Obviously the more I learn the more he will benefit. Right now he's stuck with a western trained mother J but at least one with an open mind. However the improvement in his breathing is remarkable, and I just about have him convinced to do a qi gong dvd with me that is nice and simple and has a lot of lung healing movements on it. (he's only 12) Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine ] On Behalf Of ACUDOYLE Monday, April 21, 2008 8:56 AM Chinese Traditional Medicine Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Great submission here from Nancy. My son's healthcare provider also suggested to do guasha (LIGHTLY) with aromatic oils (test these for allergies) and pinching a fold of skin with both hands and pulling down. It's a massage technique that helps with constrictions and gets blood flow going. Unless there is serious labored breathing then these alternatives used consistently will provide great benefit. If there is paroxomal or labored breathing then they must be cared for immediately but after the crisis passes, do the qigong and massage and oils. Check their environment for allergens and keep the home as dust and other identified allergens free as possible. In Health Pete - Nancy Tice Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40> Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:17 PM RE: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma I realize this message is very old but you should strongly consider qi gong massage for your son, I do it to mine for his asthma , he coughs like crazy when I'm doing it but it has helped him a lot. It doesn't look like 'massage because you're kind of hitting his back/hard tapping with your hands in various positions and on the front too. Acupressure to lung point 1 is also very good. Some people feel anyone with asthma should have their kidney treated as well as the kidney grabs the lung qi for inspiration and if the kidney isn't doing that then their will shortness of breath, potentially asthma. Anyway qi gong massage and qi gong in general is amazing. I don't know if he is old enough to tolerate acupuncture but he could certainly tolerate acupressure and other forms of massage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 While it is true you need sufficient earth to engender metal, if earth is sufficient over tonifying it will not help metal. Weak lungs can have many causes, perhaps the kidney isn’t grabbing the lung qi or in five elements water draining metal, maybe wood is insulting metal, maybe fire is overacting on metal, and that’s just 5 element theory, there are so many diagnostic theories. Rather than overwhelm this person with theory, which is sort of useless without an exam and a full history, it is probably much more useful to help teach how alleviate symptoms any way we can. Respectfully, Nancy Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine ] On Behalf Of :::Kamesha::: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:10 AM Chinese Traditional Medicine Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Nurture Earth, this way you will nurture Metal. ACUDOYLE <ACUDOYLE%40peoplepc.com> escribi�: Great submission here from Nancy. My son's healthcare provider also suggested to do guasha (LIGHTLY) with aromatic oils (test these for allergies) and pinching a fold of skin with both hands and pulling down. It's a massage technique that helps with constrictions and gets blood flow going. Unless there is serious labored breathing then these alternatives used consistently will provide great benefit. If there is paroxomal or labored breathing then they must be cared for immediately but after the crisis passes, do the qigong and massage and oils. Check their environment for allergens and keep the home as dust and other identified allergens free as possible. In Health Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Just tried to give advice. If it's true, it's true. Of course there is a genetic factor. Some of the people that have asthma is bc they choke(smother) others with their words...is the tipical....what you do is what you get. And if you beliebe in karma...tehn imagine the posssibilitues... Nancy Tice <nancy escribi�: While it is true you need sufficient earth to engender metal, if earth is sufficient over tonifying it will not help metal. Weak lungs can have many causes, perhaps the kidney isn�t grabbing the lung qi or in five elements water draining metal, maybe wood is insulting metal, maybe fire is overacting on metal, and that�s just 5 element theory, there are so many diagnostic theories. Rather than overwhelm this person with theory, which is sort of useless without an exam and a full history, it is probably much more useful to help teach how alleviate symptoms any way we can. Respectfully, Nancy Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine ] On Behalf Of :::Kamesha::: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:10 AM Chinese Traditional Medicine Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Nurture Earth, this way you will nurture Metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Very cool Nancy! My son (2) is getting stronger with the usual scares along the way. Best part of my life! God Bless! Pete - Nancy Tice Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:59 PM RE: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Yes I forgot to add we have an 'air exchanger' in my son's room and an air filter in the house. My son BEGS for the qi gong massage. I'm not too thrilled with his pulse so I've been trying to learn massage techniques to improve his 'essence'. Obviously the more I learn the more he will benefit. Right now he's stuck with a western trained mother J but at least one with an open mind. However the improvement in his breathing is remarkable, and I just about have him convinced to do a qi gong dvd with me that is nice and simple and has a lot of lung healing movements on it. (he's only 12) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Yep. So many styles to sift through. And the pattern differentiation tells the practitioner how to address the branch (symptoms). Not easy to practice this kind of medicine but definitely less harmful than a bunch of drugs prescribed with only the disease in mind and not the individual. I just keep in mind the possible situations where a MD with a pocketful of meds can save my kid too. Pete - Nancy Tice Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:08 PM RE: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma While it is true you need sufficient earth to engender metal, if earth is sufficient over tonifying it will not help metal. Weak lungs can have many causes, perhaps the kidney isn't grabbing the lung qi or in five elements water draining metal, maybe wood is insulting metal, maybe fire is overacting on metal, and that's just 5 element theory, there are so many diagnostic theories. Rather than overwhelm this person with theory, which is sort of useless without an exam and a full history, it is probably much more useful to help teach how alleviate symptoms any way we can. Respectfully, Nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Yes Pete they are amazing. I wish I knew then what I knew now! I'd start him off differently. I never did give the cold medicine garbage the pediatrician gave out and I certainly never started them on solids at 4 months (not blasting anyone here it just seemed absurd to me). But I would have loved to have known these techniques earlier. Well better late than never. Of course my daughter gets very jealous! LOL. 'mommy I don't feel well and my pulse is superficial! and rapid' how many kids say that one!!!! Enjoy your 2 year old. It's a precious age. We never had the terrible two's here, as long as you understand it is a time for them to explore who they are away from you, while very much still needing you, and that this creates the internal conflict you understand the frustration and they appear much less 'terrible'. 'no' is a very important word to learn how to say! I'm afraid you can't avoid those scars though! Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine ] On Behalf Of ACUDOYLE Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:41 AM Chinese Traditional Medicine Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Very cool Nancy! My son (2) is getting stronger with the usual scares along the way. Best part of my life! God Bless! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Yes Pete I agree, there are times when you will want to rush your kid to the MD. But there is one thing about TCM diagnostics is you can't oversimplify. You can't say a weak lung is treated by treating the spleen without seeing a whole pattern. Western medicine does look at patterns too but it can also get away with treating symptoms at times. Obviously treating the root cause is the best case scenario for everyone J Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine ] On Behalf Of ACUDOYLE Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:45 AM Chinese Traditional Medicine Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Yep. So many styles to sift through. And the pattern differentiation tells the practitioner how to address the branch (symptoms). Not easy to practice this kind of medicine but definitely less harmful than a bunch of drugs prescribed with only the disease in mind and not the individual. I just keep in mind the possible situations where a MD with a pocketful of meds can save my kid too. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 That's one of the problems (wrong word?) I have trouble with is the sifting of symptoms when there are probably a few patterns to separate simultaneously. Comes down to primary complaint I guess. As they say though, the sucessful treatment is the proof of a correct diagnosis. Anyway.... Pete - Nancy Tice Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:19 PM RE: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Yes Pete I agree, there are times when you will want to rush your kid to the MD. But there is one thing about TCM diagnostics is you can't oversimplify. You can't say a weak lung is treated by treating the spleen without seeing a whole pattern. Western medicine does look at patterns too but it can also get away with treating symptoms at times. Obviously treating the root cause is the best case scenario for everyone J Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine ] On Behalf Of ACUDOYLE Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:45 AM Chinese Traditional Medicine Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma Yep. So many styles to sift through. And the pattern differentiation tells the practitioner how to address the branch (symptoms). Not easy to practice this kind of medicine but definitely less harmful than a bunch of drugs prescribed with only the disease in mind and not the individual. I just keep in mind the possible situations where a MD with a pocketful of meds can save my kid too. Pete Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1395 - Release 4/24/2008 7:24 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:24 AM, <ACUDOYLE wrote: > That's one of the problems (wrong word?) I have trouble with is the > sifting of symptoms when there are probably a few patterns to separate > simultaneously. Comes down to primary complaint I guess. > > As they say though, the sucessful treatment is the proof of a correct > diagnosis. > > Anyway.... > Pete > This is an interesting point. In school, we learn about different syndromes and patterns, and we seek to fit our patients into those patterns, but these are all " textbook " patterns and while they show-up now and then, it is rare to find a patient present with a clear black-and-white diagnosis. While I don't really have a fixed answer as to what signs and symptoms one should consider, and which ones you have to ignore, there are a few considerations that I keep in mind... 1. Diagnostic skill does in fact require that one include some findings and ignore others. But which to accept and which to ignore??? 2. Sometimes I consider biomedical diagnosis, usually I don't, though. This comes into play for diabetes, where the patient can test their blood sugar levels and we can watch how the herbal remedies work. However, in addition to a blood sugar lowering agent such as Jiao Gu Lan (gynostema), I'll prescribe a formula that otherwise addresses their TCM presentation. 3. Pulse: in the beginning, I used pulses to break ties. For instance, if a patient presents with both Liver indications as well as Spleen, I might check the pulse for the wiry versus slippery qualities. Which ever is dominant, I'll focus the treatment there. 4. Pulse: if you can differentiate between forceful and forceless (strong v. weak, etc.) then you can at least know if the patient has an excessive problem or a deficient problem. This will narrow down your diagnostic possibilities by about 50% right off the bat. 5. All four examinations (inquiry, inspection, palpation, listening & smelling) must be consolidated together. No one should be used alone. This is the mistake that many patients who read stuff online make. 6. Certain complaints have fewer diagnostic options than other. Focusing on those can help to narrow down your diagnosis more quickly. For instance, abdominal bloating is usually qi stagnation, but qi stagnation can be caused by a (TCM) Liver dysfunction, or dampness. If there's a thick tongue coating or teethmarks, consider dampness, if not consider qi stagnation alone. I'm not sure that this is the best example of this. 7. I think that what I'm trying to say is that with a little bit of experience, you are going to know to rule out those things that are very rare such as internal excess cold (that I rarely see in Southern California, may be more prevalent in colder regions.) Comprehensive books will list every possible syndrome associated with something like abdominal bloating, but they don't really rank them in terms of likelyhood. This comes with experience, I guess. And of course, the other side of that coin is when someone comes in with something rare, but you don't recognize it because you weren't expecting it. More on that under " sleeping on it. " 8. There's a certain feeling that one gets when you consolidate all the signs and symptoms with the physical energy that a patient gives off. I can't always be clear on that physical energy while I'm with the patient because I'm more focused on the quantifiable signs such as tongue appearance or pulse qualities. In fact, while I'm taking my notes on these things, I'll often say them aloud so they don't get all mashed up with my internal perceptions. I write down whatever I say. Later on, I'll add these internal perceptions to the mix. 9. About intuitive internal perceptions: I often see students falling back on these in the teaching clinic, but I have yet to see them really nail the diagnosis with these methods. They often take the student off into the direction of wrongsville. Honestly, when I talk about internal perceptions, they aren't separate from the four examinations, but are more of a consolidation and ranking of these observations. The way that I use these are when I have time to consider a formula for a patient. Basically I'm talking about " sleeping on it " . When you're no longer in the presence of the patient, you can kind of consider your global perceptions rather than trying to look insightful and confident in front of the patient. This enables you too really review the encounter well enough too really grasp the key issues at play. So, my suggestion is always to " sleep on it " as is possible, obviously. 10. The patient is always the teacher. As Pete mentioned, the successful treatment is the proof of the correct diagnosis. In these internet interactions, we may be very well-stated in our abilities to diagnose an issue, but it only matters when it works. -al. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Wow! That's really helpful especially the overview of some of the mental work around this. Thanks Pete - Al Stone Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, April 25, 2008 11:33 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Asthma On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:24 AM, <ACUDOYLE wrote: > That's one of the problems (wrong word?) I have trouble with is the > sifting of symptoms when there are probably a few patterns to separate > simultaneously. Comes down to primary complaint I guess. > > As they say though, the sucessful treatment is the proof of a correct > diagnosis. > > Anyway.... > Pete > This is an interesting point. In school, we learn about different syndromes and patterns, and we seek to fit our patients into those patterns, but these are all " textbook " patterns and while they show-up now and then, it is rare to find a patient present with a clear black-and-white diagnosis. While I don't really have a fixed answer as to what signs and symptoms one should consider, and which ones you have to ignore, there are a few considerations that I keep in mind... 1. Diagnostic skill does in fact require that one include some findings and ignore others. But which to accept and which to ignore??? 2. Sometimes I consider biomedical diagnosis, usually I don't, though. This comes into play for diabetes, where the patient can test their blood sugar levels and we can watch how the herbal remedies work. However, in addition to a blood sugar lowering agent such as Jiao Gu Lan (gynostema), I'll prescribe a formula that otherwise addresses their TCM presentation. 3. Pulse: in the beginning, I used pulses to break ties. For instance, if a patient presents with both Liver indications as well as Spleen, I might check the pulse for the wiry versus slippery qualities. Which ever is dominant, I'll focus the treatment there. 4. Pulse: if you can differentiate between forceful and forceless (strong v. weak, etc.) then you can at least know if the patient has an excessive problem or a deficient problem. This will narrow down your diagnostic possibilities by about 50% right off the bat. 5. All four examinations (inquiry, inspection, palpation, listening & smelling) must be consolidated together. No one should be used alone. This is the mistake that many patients who read stuff online make. 6. Certain complaints have fewer diagnostic options than other. Focusing on those can help to narrow down your diagnosis more quickly. For instance, abdominal bloating is usually qi stagnation, but qi stagnation can be caused by a (TCM) Liver dysfunction, or dampness. If there's a thick tongue coating or teethmarks, consider dampness, if not consider qi stagnation alone. I'm not sure that this is the best example of this. 7. I think that what I'm trying to say is that with a little bit of experience, you are going to know to rule out those things that are very rare such as internal excess cold (that I rarely see in Southern California, may be more prevalent in colder regions.) Comprehensive books will list every possible syndrome associated with something like abdominal bloating, but they don't really rank them in terms of likelyhood. This comes with experience, I guess. And of course, the other side of that coin is when someone comes in with something rare, but you don't recognize it because you weren't expecting it. More on that under " sleeping on it. " 8. There's a certain feeling that one gets when you consolidate all the signs and symptoms with the physical energy that a patient gives off. I can't always be clear on that physical energy while I'm with the patient because I'm more focused on the quantifiable signs such as tongue appearance or pulse qualities. In fact, while I'm taking my notes on these things, I'll often say them aloud so they don't get all mashed up with my internal perceptions. I write down whatever I say. Later on, I'll add these internal perceptions to the mix. 9. About intuitive internal perceptions: I often see students falling back on these in the teaching clinic, but I have yet to see them really nail the diagnosis with these methods. They often take the student off into the direction of wrongsville. Honestly, when I talk about internal perceptions, they aren't separate from the four examinations, but are more of a consolidation and ranking of these observations. The way that I use these are when I have time to consider a formula for a patient. Basically I'm talking about " sleeping on it " . When you're no longer in the presence of the patient, you can kind of consider your global perceptions rather than trying to look insightful and confident in front of the patient. This enables you too really review the encounter well enough too really grasp the key issues at play. So, my suggestion is always to " sleep on it " as is possible, obviously. 10. The patient is always the teacher. As Pete mentioned, the successful treatment is the proof of the correct diagnosis. In these internet interactions, we may be very well-stated in our abilities to diagnose an issue, but it only matters when it works. -al. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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