Here is some more random yadda yadda yadda for members.

Posted January 19, 2006 · January 19, 2006

Dear Group,

Most new people come to the group and naturally they think in an

allopathic model for treating " disease " . That is the only one that

most of us are exposed to all of our lives. It is how we have been

" taught to think " in those kinds of terms/ paradigms. One symptom equals one

" disease " which requires one treatment to attack and suppress that symptom. That

is what disease is...that is how we treat...and that is what constitutes a

" cure " .

It is difficult to change the way that we think. We know no other way. Most

questioners here would not understand a truely comprehensive answer as they are

not aware enough to even know what the questions are/ should be let alone

understand the answer.

Thier " disease " is usually a labeled symptom. Not the root cause but only a

symptom. The obvious question they ask is... what natural " medicine " can replace

their toxic allopathic medicine to suppress that symptom. Most people who are

experienced and consider themselves

" alternative health " devotees/ practicioners are usually equally guilty of the

same way of thinking. Most herbalists, acupuncturists, homeopaths, TCM, etc.

usually follow a view of health/healing/disease not that far different from the

allopaths. Make a diagnosis based on symptoms and prescribe some " medicine " to

try and effect a " cure " . I am not saying that those alternative modalities are

valueless. On the contrary, they are very valuable methods of treatment.

It is only that the practicioners mostly all think that the body/mind of the

patient is stupid/can't be trusted and that they will are/ have to be smarter

than the human organism and treat/ force the body by " medicine " to " get on

track " of the guidelines laid down by the alternative practioner. Most utilize

only one modality, and know little of others, so they fall into the thinking of

the often quoted " to a hammer everything looks like a nail " . They think that

they can tackle any " disease " thing with their one approach " hammer " . They are

all treating disease in the belief that if they can conqure / attack the disease

that will bring " health " . That " health " equates to and is the " abscence of

disease " . They try to and believe that they treat the whole person rather than

the sickness, but in practice most just " treat " the disease / symptom although

they usually affect it with more natural substances and in a lot of cases they

have a certain level of success and do not harm the patient in the process like

the allopaths do when they give their toxic, chemically poisonous, prescription

drugs.

The problem is that most are ignorant that " health " is achieved when

you not only have the abscence of disease but you also have widespread

health on a celular level. Health of the cells withstands/ conqures, refutes

disease. To bring about health on a cellular level it must be done with the

things that the cell can use/ uses for health/ life. The cells use nutrients

such as vitamins, minerals, amino acids, essential fatty acids, electrical

charges, etc. Those are the things required, you cannot substitute / use a one

dimensional " hammer " of herbs, or homeopathology, or acupuncture, or body

manipulation, or positive thought, etc. They are in no way, or can ever be,

replacements for the tools that the body needs to function/heal. They usually

try and use a weakly toxic " natural medicine " to attack/ fight the disease,

instead of using a highly toxic allopathic medicine, but they are still

attacking it to conquere it. Sometimes we do have to fight/conqure disease but

that is only a small part of actual health.

Most of those practioners do not have a clue what is happening on a

cellular level and have scant knowledge of nutrients and how they

work. Most think like allopaths and consider nutrients weak measures

and as long as the diet is adequate and the person takes a vitamin

pill daily that the nutrition angle is covered. The truth is exactly

the opposite. The most powerful substances to bring about change are those

nutrients that the body... can use/ uses/ needs... to fight sickness or achieve

health. They have no concept that all nutritional needs are individual to that

specific person. Each person is different. One person may need 10 times of a

specific nutrient than someone also.

They have no concept that most nutrients are not random things but act

in conjunction with each other. In fact most have to be balanced with

an opposing nutrient. This holds true for most of the 70 something

essential nutrients needed daily by humans. They are called

" essential " because the body cannot make those nutients and they are

essential for health and life and must be taken in somehow to continue living

and achieve health/ healing.

Those 70 something nutrients are then used by the body to make about

10,000 different chemicals, enzymes, processes, etc. within the body

to bring about optimal health and functioning of the cells, organs,

etc. Those 70 something nutrients are the " tools " that the body uses

and will not/ cannot accept any substitutes. Any talk of health or the

abscense of disease is useless without first knowing and taking into

consideration those basic tools/ building blocks.

Sometimes we also need to help the body beyond the basic building

blocks / cellular tools and help it achieve balance again and that is

when we can employ the use of herbs, homeopathic formulas, acupuncture, etc. But

in the abscence of those tools used and needed on the celular level they will

not bring about good /optimal results. We usually need both a good defense and a

good offense to achieve health in the presence of actual disease.

Taking out the bad stuff and putting in the good stuff.

A lot of what we call " disease " is the result of the poisoning of the cells/

organs/body by modern chemicals/ poisons.

So, another aspect of health is the abscence of poisonous

substances poisoning / killing the cells/ organs/ body. If the cells, organs,

body are/is being poisoned, the only cure is to take out the poisons. If the

body is being poisoned by pollutants, chemicals in our daily life, allpoathic

toxic prescriptions, etc. you will never achieve health no matter what you do

until you stop putting in the poisons and start reversing the process and give

the body the necessary nutrients it needs to detoxify itself. To get the poisons

out of a damaged cell. organ, bone, body and to rebuild the cell the only things

that will work are the nutritonal tools that the body uses on a cellular level.

Once that is done the body will " heal

itself " . That's what bodies do and have been doing for all of history.

All healing is the body healing itself. There is no other kind. We can

help the body in varied ways but the body still heals itself. Just

don't expect it to do so without the essential tools it needs for

health / healing. To do otherwise is crazy thinking. The body is in

the process of healing itself every minute that we are alive on a

continuing basis. It is a supurb machine/organism that comes with a

self defence/ self repairing system/ mechanism as long as it has AAAAALLLLLLL of

what it needs in an abundant supply.

So, when the person asks... what pill do I take for my " disease " ? the

only one they can take which will really work to bring about health / healing is

the pill of knowledge about what are those 70 something nutrients and how do

they work on a cellular level. Of course no one wants to hear that whether they

are patient or practioner. They want a nice easy answer with no effort on their

part. Just " take this pill, procedure, etc. Or if somone doesn't want to learn

personally, they can pay a person/practioner for their expertise which is

sometimes a very good option.

We in this group for the most part are not doctors. We are just people

who have decided that we, for one reason or another, have no other

option but to study, research and learn to somewhat be our own doctors. We would

all like for it to be simple too, we also would like it to be just a " take this

pill " easy solution. A lot of us got here, sick and broken because we belived

someone else's lie about it being as easy as " take this pill " .

Actually learning about natural health is much easier than most

modalities. All it is, is just learning about a few nutrients and how

cells work. That isn't much to take on when it means everything about

our health. After that then you should learn about the next things to

help such as herbs, homeopathology, acupuncture, etc and search out

practicioners of those for their expertise.

With this message, I fully expect to piss off at least 60 percent of

this group. It wasn't my intention, but it is the expected byproduct

of trying to tell the truth as I see it.

Another thing that I would like to bring up is that we are not doctors. We

cannot diagnose, treat, prescribe anything to anyone else here. We can make

suggestions by sharing information. We can say what worked for us. We can give

directions to where there might be helpful information, etc. There is no way

that anyone could really know what the other person's condition is or what they

really need to bring about a " cure " in an email discussion than the man in the

moon.

Also, I believe that some of the people who come here are just trolls, plants to

get people to " help them " and in the process trying to get members to hang

themselves / incriminate themselves by and for the so called crime of dispensing

medical advice without being legally licensed and legally able to do so. We

share information for information / discussion purposes only. It is the

responsibility of each member to read and research their own condition and to

decide on their own methods, treatments, etc. you are going to use or not use on

yourself in conjunction with your own health practioners. That is what this

group is about.. the sharing of information for our own use...not the health

treatment of others.

Frank

Posted January 19, 2006 · January 19, 2006

I just read my posting below. I could have done a better job in

writing and editing given a little time. But, I don't really care right now. It

is too late at night and I was too tired to try and do a first class job so I

kinda just dashed it off. If you read it slowly or slowly twice is even better

and then you should be able to understand what I was trying to say. As always,

those that want to see will, and those who cannot, or do not want to see will

not. Take it for what it is worth to you. In that way, it is also your

responsibility whether you understand it or not.

, " califpacific "

<califpacific@g...> wrote:

>

> Dear Group,

>

> Here is some more random yadda yadda yadda for members.

>

> Most new people come to the group and naturally they think in an

> allopathic model for treating " disease " . That is the only one that

> most of us are exposed to all of our lives. It is how we have been

> " taught to think " in those kinds of terms/ paradigms. One symptom

equals one " disease " which requires one treatment to attack and

suppress that symptom. That is what disease is...that is how we

treat...and that is what constitutes a " cure " .

>

> It is difficult to change the way that we think. We know no other

way. Most questioners here would not understand a truely

comprehensive answer as they are not aware enough to even know what

the questions are/ should be let alone understand the answer.

>

> Thier " disease " is usually a labeled symptom. Not the root cause but

only a symptom. The obvious question they ask is... what natural

" medicine " can replace their toxic allopathic medicine to suppress

that symptom. Most people who are experienced and consider themselves

> " alternative health " devotees/ practicioners are usually equally

guilty of the same way of thinking. Most herbalists, acupuncturists,

homeopaths, TCM, etc. usually follow a view of health/healing/disease

not that far different from the allopaths. Make a diagnosis based on

symptoms and prescribe some " medicine " to try and effect a " cure " . I

am not saying that those alternative modalities are valueless. On the

contrary, they are very valuable methods of treatment.

>

> It is only that the practicioners mostly all think that the

body/mind of the patient is stupid/can't be trusted and that they will

are/ have to be smarter than the human organism and treat/ force the

body by " medicine " to " get on track " of the guidelines laid down by

the alternative practioner. Most utilize only one modality, and know

little of others, so they fall into the thinking of the often quoted

" to a hammer everything looks like a nail " . They think that they can

tackle any " disease " thing with their one approach " hammer " . They are

all treating disease in the belief that if they can conqure / attack

the disease that will bring " health " . That " health " equates to and is

the " abscence of disease " . They try to and believe that they treat the

whole person rather than the sickness, but in practice most just

" treat " the disease / symptom although they usually affect it with

more natural substances and in a lot of cases they have a certain

level of success and do not harm the patient in the process like the

allopaths do when they give their toxic, chemically poisonous,

prescription drugs.

>

Posted January 19, 2006 · January 19, 2006

It gets the point across and that's the main thing! Well said,

Sharon

, " califpacific "

<califpacific@g...> wrote:

>

> I just read my posting below. I could have done a better job in

> writing and editing given a little time. But, I don't really care

right now. It is too late at night and I was too tired to try and do

a first class job so I kinda just dashed it off. If you read it

slowly or slowly twice is even better and then you should be able to

understand what I was trying to say. As always, those that want to

see will, and those who cannot, or do not want to see will not. Take

it for what it is worth to you. In that way, it is also your

responsibility whether you understand it or not.

>

> , " califpacific "

> <califpacific@g...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Group,

> >

> > Here is some more random yadda yadda yadda for members.

> >

> > Most new people come to the group and naturally they think in an

> > allopathic model for treating " disease " . That is the only one

that

> > most of us are exposed to all of our lives. It is how we have

been

> > " taught to think " in those kinds of terms/ paradigms. One symptom

> equals one " disease " which requires one treatment to attack and

> suppress that symptom. That is what disease is...that is how we

> treat...and that is what constitutes a " cure " .

> >

> > It is difficult to change the way that we think. We know no other

> way. Most questioners here would not understand a truely

> comprehensive answer as they are not aware enough to even know what

> the questions are/ should be let alone understand the answer.

> >

> > Thier " disease " is usually a labeled symptom. Not the root cause

but

> only a symptom. The obvious question they ask is... what natural

> " medicine " can replace their toxic allopathic medicine to suppress

> that symptom. Most people who are experienced and consider

themselves

> > " alternative health " devotees/ practicioners are usually equally

> guilty of the same way of thinking. Most herbalists,

acupuncturists,

> homeopaths, TCM, etc. usually follow a view of

health/healing/disease

> not that far different from the allopaths. Make a diagnosis based

on

> symptoms and prescribe some " medicine " to try and effect a " cure " .

I

> am not saying that those alternative modalities are valueless. On

the

> contrary, they are very valuable methods of treatment.

> >

> > It is only that the practicioners mostly all think that the

> body/mind of the patient is stupid/can't be trusted and that they

will

> are/ have to be smarter than the human organism and treat/ force

the

> body by " medicine " to " get on track " of the guidelines laid down by

> the alternative practioner. Most utilize only one modality, and

know

> little of others, so they fall into the thinking of the often

quoted

> " to a hammer everything looks like a nail " . They think that they

can

> tackle any " disease " thing with their one approach " hammer " . They

are

> all treating disease in the belief that if they can conqure /

attack

> the disease that will bring " health " . That " health " equates to and

is

> the " abscence of disease " . They try to and believe that they treat

the

> whole person rather than the sickness, but in practice most just

> " treat " the disease / symptom although they usually affect it with

> more natural substances and in a lot of cases they have a certain

> level of success and do not harm the patient in the process like

the

> allopaths do when they give their toxic, chemically poisonous,

> prescription drugs.

> >

>

Posted January 20, 2006 · January 20, 2006

On 1/19/06, califpacific <califpacific wrote:

> Dear Group,

>

> Here is some more random yadda yadda yadda for members.

<snip>

>

> With this message, I fully expect to piss off at least 60 percent of

> this group. It wasn't my intention, but it is the expected byproduct

> of trying to tell the truth as I see it.

Good post, Frank. I am not the least bit pissed off.

>

> Another thing that I would like to bring up is that we are not doctors. We

cannot diagnose, treat, prescribe anything to anyone else here. We can make

suggestions by sharing information. We can say what worked for us. We can give

directions to where there might be helpful information, etc. There is no way

that anyone could really know what the other person's condition is or what they

really need to bring about a " cure " in an email discussion than the man in the

moon.

Thanks for the reminder. I try to let people know what I do,

or what they might try, but I also know I sometimes go over the line

and give advice I surely cannot give.

>

> Also, I believe that some of the people who come here are just trolls, plants

to get people to " help them " and in the process trying to get members to hang

themselves / incriminate themselves by and for the so called crime of dispensing

medical advice without being legally licensed and legally able to do so. We

share information for information / discussion purposes only. It is the

responsibility of each member to read and research their own condition and to

decide on their own methods, treatments, etc. you are going to use or not use on

yourself in conjunction with your own health practioners. That is what this

group is about.. the sharing of information for our own use...not the health

treatment of others.

You have mentioned this troll thing before, Frank. I

used to think you were being paranoid. over the past few years, I

have come to agree with you.

Alobar

Posted January 20, 2006 · January 20, 2006

Frank,

Well I read your post and wasn't the slightest bit annoyed. I think you conveyed

your message just fine.

I think it's a very valid reminder that we should not try and 'treat' others on

the list. Also that we must take our health into our own hands, whilst at the

same time being able to share information and our own experiences.

Whilst not a very active member I, and I'm sure many others on this list,

appreciate the HUGE amount of effort you put into just moderating this list, let

alone all the informative articles you post. I am always learning something new.

Keep up the great work!

- In , " califpacific "