Our son with Schiz. is doing really well.

[Guest guest]

After more than a year of ups and downs, mostly downs, our son is

finally back to having his old personality again. He first began to

have symptoms of schizophrenia when he was 16, but it took about 5

months for us to figure out what was going on. Then after a short time

on medications, we tried orthomolecular treatment without meds, but we

could never shake all of the negative symptoms. Then we tried the

vitamins along with meds, with no better success, and then when we

tried to stop the meds, he would start hearing voices after a few

weeks. One medication, Geodon, made him hallucinate like crazy after

about a week, although it does help some people.

 

Then we decided to have a sliding genioplasty, which is a surgery

where they move the chin forward to give more support to the back of

the tongue, done for his very mild sleep apnea, in case it might help

somehow. He had the surgery done on August 22nd and after 2 weeks we

could see that his sense of humor was beginning to return. Now he has

been well most of the time for several weeks, and off medications for

more than 5 weeks, but we discovered that with only 6 grams of niacin

a day his negative symptoms would return to some degree in the morning

after going 12-14 hours without any niacin. We raised his niacin up to

13 grams a day and now he seems like his old self pretty much all of

the time, smiling, laughing, talking, etc. It's really great to see

and we thank God.

 

Orthomolecular treatment for schizophrenia does work, but sometimes

you have to be persistant about tracking down other stressors that are

making the person worse.

[Guest guest]

This is a very exciting discovery you are reporting. I

have several queries and two suggestions.

Suggestions are that you please join the schizophrenia

4 us group of in addition to this group, so you

can benefit many others. Second, the nobel laureate

John Nash of " A Beautiful Mind " fame (it was movie

from Hollywood) himself a schiz for 30 years with

three relapses, got well without anything. But his two

sons are not ok. One is alcohol addict. The other is

full blown schiz. Please help John Nasch to help his

son.

My queries are #1 Do you really mean you gave Niacin

at 6 gm and 13 gm doses in a day? That is very high.

How did the son tolerate it without nausea and without

vomiting---I wonder. Perhaps his schiz condition

needed it, so he did not vomit. Generally liver gets

damaged at these high levels.

Most importantly: What other stuff did you give on top

of Niacin? What about other vitamins, minerals, the

omega3 and GLA?

Do you think he would come out of schiz without the

chin surgery if niacin were started at 13 gm early

enough?

And this: Did you give Niacin or Niacinamide? Did you

give Niacin in slow release form? How did you divide

the dose of 13 gm over 24 hours?

 

Boy, its a major victory. I give you the Nobel Prize

right here and bow my head to you.

Ratan (please send a copy to my second address too:

ratans).

 

--- kjjsiebert <kimsiebert wrote:

 

> After more than a year of ups and downs, mostly

> downs, our son is

> finally back to having his old personality again. He

> first began to

> have symptoms of schizophrenia when he was 16, but

> it took about 5

> months for us to figure out what was going on. Then

> after a short time

> on medications, we tried orthomolecular treatment

> without meds, but we

> could never shake all of the negative symptoms. Then

> we tried the

> vitamins along with meds, with no better success,

> and then when we

> tried to stop the meds, he would start hearing

> voices after a few

> weeks. One medication, Geodon, made him hallucinate

> like crazy after

> about a week, although it does help some people.

>

> Then we decided to have a sliding genioplasty, which

> is a surgery

> where they move the chin forward to give more

> support to the back of

> the tongue, done for his very mild sleep apnea, in

> case it might help

> somehow. He had the surgery done on August 22nd and

> after 2 weeks we

> could see that his sense of humor was beginning to

> return. Now he has

> been well most of the time for several weeks, and

> off medications for

> more than 5 weeks, but we discovered that with only

> 6 grams of niacin

> a day his negative symptoms would return to some

> degree in the morning

> after going 12-14 hours without any niacin. We

> raised his niacin up to

> 13 grams a day and now he seems like his old self

> pretty much all of

> the time, smiling, laughing, talking, etc. It's

> really great to see

> and we thank God.

>

> Orthomolecular treatment for schizophrenia does

> work, but sometimes

> you have to be persistant about tracking down other

> stressors that are

> making the person worse.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

<< #1 Do you really mean you gave Niacin

at 6 gm and 13 gm doses in a day? That is very high.>>

 

Well, 13 grams is higher than usual, but 2-6 grams is within the

normal range. Dr. Hoffer tells of one patient who had to take 30 grams

a day and gradually lowered it to 2 or 3 grams, but it took 7 years to

lower the dose to that point.

 

<<How did the son tolerate it without nausea and without

vomiting---I wonder. " "

 

Niacin is much less likely to cause nausea than niacinamide. I tried

giving my son niacinamide at 6 grams a day when he first became ill,

or what I mean is when we first realized what was going on, he was

delusional for 5 months before we figured it out, and after one week

he vomited from the niacinamide and I had to lower the dose to 3

grams. However, I have given him as much as 30 grams in a day of the

regular niacin and he has never had any nausea from it. I have given

myself as much as 3 grams of niacin a day because I was experiencing

how the flush gets less at higher doses, and it never made me nauseated.

 

<<Perhaps his schiz condition

needed it, so he did not vomit. Generally liver gets

damaged at these high levels.>>

 

I don't believe that this is true. If you know of any documented

cases where a person has had actual liver damage from regular niacin I

would like to know about it. Usually when they say that niacin causes

liver damage at high doses they are either refering to slow release

niacin, which can cause liver damage, or they are defining elevated

liver enzyme tests as liver damage. My son had liver function tests at

one point when we were trying 18 grams of niacin a day and his liver

enzymes were somewhat elevated, but not alarmingly so. I don't believe

that a single case of actual liver damage where the person's liver was

not able to do its job has been documented, but as I said, if it has I

would like to know about it. There have been a few people who have

gotten jaundice from clogged passages in the liver, but that always

clears up when they stop the niacin, and afterwards they can start it

again if their symptoms return. I consider having elevated liver

enzymes and the very low possibility of jaundice to be much less risky

than the side effects from medications, which can include death for

some of them.

 

<<Most importantly: What other stuff did you give on top

of Niacin? What about other vitamins, minerals, the

omega3 and GLA?>>

 

He has taken plenty. He does take omega 3's, but he is only semi

cooperative about taking them, he also takes zinc, and B6, he was

taking equilib, which is similar to truehope, developed by the same

company, but now I give him a B50 and separate vitamins instead with

the usual e, selenium, manganese, etc etc. He has taken various other

things in the past that he is not taking now. At first he was getting

B complex shots and later only the B12, but I don't think that made

any difference. We have also restricted his diet various time to track

down possible allergies to food and he is sensitive to cheese, which

he loves, but not to gluten or other dairy products. We also treated

him for candida, but he does not seem to be affected by that now. He

had chelation therapy and excreted a lot of copper, even though he had

been on about 70mg of zinc a day for 9 months before so we checked to

make sure that he did not have Wilson's disease, but he does not. We

raised his zinc intake for a couple of months, but it did not seem to

make a difference.

 

He also gets 5 grams of vitamin C 3 times a day with the niacin.

At one time I was giving him very large amounts of C because I

discovered that if I could get him to take it to bowel tolerance there

was an improvement in his symptoms, but he did not like the side

effects and he would always start refusing it after about 10 days, and

then the next time his bowel tolerance would go up higher and higher

until I gave up when it went over 120 grams a day, I am not kidding,

it was that high. It has come down again now, though.

 

 

<<Do you think he would come out of schiz without the

chin surgery if niacin were started at 13 gm early

enough?>>

 

We tried him at 18 grams a day for about 3 months last winter. I even

tried a few days at 30 grams a day but we could never get rid of all

of his symptoms and he was never himself, if you know what I mean.

 

<<And this: Did you give Niacin or Niacinamide?>>

 

Niacin.

 

<<Did you

give Niacin in slow release form?>> NO, NO, NO, I would never give

anyone that.

 

<<How did you divide

the dose of 13 gm over 24 hours?>>

 

morning afternoon and evening, 5, 3, 5. I have lowered the dose in

the last couple of days to 4, 3, 4, for a total of 11 grams a day and

he seems to be doing OK on that. Eventually I expect that he will be

able to gradually lower the dose. He was getting 2, 2, 2.

 

Here is some info I didn't put in my first post because I wasn't sure

if there would be much interest and I was trying to keep the post

shortish. He was taking a medication called xyrem for sleep for a

number of months and I have often wondered if it made him hallucinate

even though the company that makes it says it does not do that. If the

Xyrem made him hallucinate then the surgery may not have been a help

to him because we stopped giving it to him after the surgery, but

before starting the xyrem we had tried 5 months of ortho treatment

with no medications of any kind , part of the time with 18 grams of

niacin a day, and for a little while he was better, but not as good as

now, and that was when he was taking so much vitamin C and we could

not maintain that. Then he gradually got somewhat worse, and the

vitamin C did not have the effect it had had before, but still no

positive symptoms. Then the doctor talked me into trying Geodon to see

if it would take away the negative symptoms and that made him worse

and from then on he had hallucinations every time he tried to go off

the medications until after the surgery. He would start to get worse

after a week off meds and he would hallucinate after 2 or 3 weeks, but

he was taking the xyrem during this time. Would he have gotten better

on the ortho treatment if he had not taken the xyrem? I don't know. I

do know that the niacin is helping him, though. And I also know that

he is much, much better. His bad moments now are equal to his good

moments from before. And he is enjoying life now.