Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 I want to throw in a couple more specific questions-- 1. I have thought of adding a little Da Huang to guide the heat out. Anyone know if that's a good idea for this kind of thing? 2. Since this has stuck around for several months I am thinking of adding Ren Shen to help the body kick it out, but I'm not sure if that's a timely choice. All of these patients actually seem relatively sturdy, in their 30's, professionals....STRESSED OUT professionals (really makes you think of the liver/gallbladder, huh?). 3. So if this is more liver/gallbladder, how much should I still focus on the lungs with herbs like Jie Geng, Xing Ren, Zhe Bei Mu etc.? I know without seeing the patients you can only have so much to say, but any thoughts might help. Laura Chinese Medicine , " heylaurag " <heylaurag@h...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > There is a nasty virus going around here that goes to the ears and > sticks around for months seeming to get better and then coming back. > I have several patients with varying degrees of this virus. It seems > to be a windheat that moves to the ears and becomes toxic heat. > Interestingly, none of them have much in the way of phlegm. For the > most part their noses are clear. However, there has been neck pain and > headaches, and in one case a sore throat. Anyone have any ideas to > share on treating this? I'm looking for a base formula to use. I'm > thinking about using Long Dan Xie Gan Tang and adding some herbs for > toxic heat like Ban Lan Gan, Da Qing Ye, and Zi Hua Di Ding. Then I > will add herbs like Ge Gen and Man Jing Zi and Ju Hua for the head and > neck. > > Any ideas? One thing I'm wondering about is whether to add phlegm > resolving herbs, and if so, what herbs? It seems that there must be > phlegm, but its really not very apparent. I'm thinking it must be a > liver/gallbladder phlegmheat thing rather than being in the > lungs...does that make sense? If so, what herbs? > > I'm not particularly advanced at treating colds and flus past the > first stage with herbs, so any ideas at all would be greatly > appreciated. By the way--its definitely a virus rather than a > bacteria as evidenced by the fact that one of them has been on two > different antibiotics without clearing it up. > > Thanks in advance. > > Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Mayway has a new formula from China called Neck Formula, it really works on the neck pain within the same day!P.Jordan > " heylaurag " <heylaurag >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine > Ear infections >Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:08:03 -0000 > > >Hi All, > >There is a nasty virus going around here that goes to the ears and >sticks around for months seeming to get better and then coming back. >I have several patients with varying degrees of this virus. It seems >to be a windheat that moves to the ears and becomes toxic heat. >Interestingly, none of them have much in the way of phlegm. For the >most part their noses are clear. However, there has been neck pain and >headaches, and in one case a sore throat. Anyone have any ideas to >share on treating this? I'm looking for a base formula to use. I'm >thinking about using Long Dan Xie Gan Tang and adding some herbs for >toxic heat like Ban Lan Gan, Da Qing Ye, and Zi Hua Di Ding. Then I >will add herbs like Ge Gen and Man Jing Zi and Ju Hua for the head and >neck. > >Any ideas? One thing I'm wondering about is whether to add phlegm >resolving herbs, and if so, what herbs? It seems that there must be >phlegm, but its really not very apparent. I'm thinking it must be a >liver/gallbladder phlegmheat thing rather than being in the >lungs...does that make sense? If so, what herbs? > >I'm not particularly advanced at treating colds and flus past the >first stage with herbs, so any ideas at all would be greatly >appreciated. By the way--its definitely a virus rather than a >bacteria as evidenced by the fact that one of them has been on two >different antibiotics without clearing it up. > >Thanks in advance. > >Laura > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Hi Patricia, Thank you so much for your response. I actually have that formula...but would it be useful for a condition that is in the ears too from toxic heat from a windheat turning to toxic heat? It really seems like the ears are important with this. Also, is that formula more warming? This condition definitely seems to be heat related. Thanks! Laura Chinese Medicine , " Patricia Jordan " <coastalcatclinic@h...> wrote: > Mayway has a new formula from China called Neck Formula, it really works on > the neck pain within the same day!P.Jordan > > > " heylaurag " <heylaurag@h...> > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > > Ear infections > >Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:08:03 -0000 > > > > > >Hi All, > > > >There is a nasty virus going around here that goes to the ears and > >sticks around for months seeming to get better and then coming back. > >I have several patients with varying degrees of this virus. It seems > >to be a windheat that moves to the ears and becomes toxic heat. > >Interestingly, none of them have much in the way of phlegm. For the > >most part their noses are clear. However, there has been neck pain and > >headaches, and in one case a sore throat. Anyone have any ideas to > >share on treating this? I'm looking for a base formula to use. I'm > >thinking about using Long Dan Xie Gan Tang and adding some herbs for > >toxic heat like Ban Lan Gan, Da Qing Ye, and Zi Hua Di Ding. Then I > >will add herbs like Ge Gen and Man Jing Zi and Ju Hua for the head and > >neck. > > > >Any ideas? One thing I'm wondering about is whether to add phlegm > >resolving herbs, and if so, what herbs? It seems that there must be > >phlegm, but its really not very apparent. I'm thinking it must be a > >liver/gallbladder phlegmheat thing rather than being in the > >lungs...does that make sense? If so, what herbs? > > > >I'm not particularly advanced at treating colds and flus past the > >first stage with herbs, so any ideas at all would be greatly > >appreciated. By the way--its definitely a virus rather than a > >bacteria as evidenced by the fact that one of them has been on two > >different antibiotics without clearing it up. > > > >Thanks in advance. > > > >Laura > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Laura, Can you share some pulses and tongues with us? It would help a lot. A few questions, seeing as this pattern would probably be in the realm of warm disease: 1) What part of the country/world are you? What was the weather like when people contracted this evil? What time of year? 2) Type of fever/heat effusion, worse at what time of day? 3) Urination: dark, clear, scanty, copious? 4) Changes in digestion, appetite? 5) Fatigue? Unless there is a red tongue, greasy coating, and wiry pulse, I wouldn't use long dan xie gan tang. Also, for toxic heat, there should be signs of discharge or swelling, such as glandular swelling. Also, while a few of the medicinals you listed (zi hua di ding, ban lan gen or others) may be useful, be careful of using too many bitter cold medicinals as they could 'freeze' the evil qi. Some wind-heat dispersing medicinals that are acrid may be useful, and depending on damage to yin, yin supplementing medicinals as well such as xuan shen. We need to narrow down a number of variables here in order to prescribe accurately. Take care, On Mar 18, 2005, at 1:08 AM, heylaurag wrote: > > > Hi All, > > There is a nasty virus going around here that goes to the ears and > sticks around for months seeming to get better and then coming back. > I have several patients with varying degrees of this virus. It seems > to be a windheat that moves to the ears and becomes toxic heat. > Interestingly, none of them have much in the way of phlegm. For the > most part their noses are clear. However, there has been neck pain and > headaches, and in one case a sore throat. Anyone have any ideas to > share on treating this? I'm looking for a base formula to use. I'm > thinking about using Long Dan Xie Gan Tang and adding some herbs for > toxic heat like Ban Lan Gan, Da Qing Ye, and Zi Hua Di Ding. Then I > will add herbs like Ge Gen and Man Jing Zi and Ju Hua for the head and > neck. > > Any ideas? One thing I'm wondering about is whether to add phlegm > resolving herbs, and if so, what herbs? It seems that there must be > phlegm, but its really not very apparent. I'm thinking it must be a > liver/gallbladder phlegmheat thing rather than being in the > lungs...does that make sense? If so, what herbs? > > I'm not particularly advanced at treating colds and flus past the > first stage with herbs, so any ideas at all would be greatly > appreciated. By the way--its definitely a virus rather than a > bacteria as evidenced by the fact that one of them has been on two > different antibiotics without clearing it up. > > Thanks in advance. > > Laura > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 heylaurag wrote: > > I want to throw in a couple more specific questions-- > > 1. I have thought of adding a little Da Huang to guide the heat out. > Anyone know if that's a good idea for this kind of thing? > > 2. Since this has stuck around for several months I am thinking of > adding Ren Shen to help the body kick it out, but I'm not sure if > that's a timely choice. All of these patients actually seem > relatively sturdy, in their 30's, professionals....STRESSED OUT > professionals (really makes you think of the liver/gallbladder, huh?). > > 3. So if this is more liver/gallbladder, how much should I still > focus on the lungs with herbs like Jie Geng, Xing Ren, Zhe Bei Mu > etc.? > > I know without seeing the patients you can only have so much to say, > but any thoughts might help. > Hi Dr. Laura! Without seeing the patient, time-release Vitamin C, as much as the patient can take short of having diarrhea. Have had no cold/flu cases that did not resolve with this. It's not TCM, but it has always worked for me. To bad it doesn't do anything for peripheral neuropathy! Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Laura, Xiao Chai Hu Tang could be a good starting point but more signs and symptoms needed. Angelo Chinese Medicine , " heylaurag " <heylaurag@h...> wrote: > > Hi Patricia, > > Thank you so much for your response. I actually have that > formula...but would it be useful for a condition that is in the ears > too from toxic heat from a windheat turning to toxic heat? It really > seems like the ears are important with this. Also, is that formula > more warming? This condition definitely seems to be heat related. > Thanks! > > Laura > > Chinese Medicine , " Patricia Jordan " > <coastalcatclinic@h...> wrote: > > Mayway has a new formula from China called Neck Formula, it really > works on > > the neck pain within the same day!P.Jordan > > > > > " heylaurag " <heylaurag@h...> > > >Chinese Medicine > > >Chinese Medicine > > > Ear infections > > >Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:08:03 -0000 > > > > > > > > >Hi All, > > > > > >There is a nasty virus going around here that goes to the ears and > > >sticks around for months seeming to get better and then coming back. > > >I have several patients with varying degrees of this virus. It seems > > >to be a windheat that moves to the ears and becomes toxic heat. > > >Interestingly, none of them have much in the way of phlegm. For the > > >most part their noses are clear. However, there has been neck pain and > > >headaches, and in one case a sore throat. Anyone have any ideas to > > >share on treating this? I'm looking for a base formula to use. I'm > > >thinking about using Long Dan Xie Gan Tang and adding some herbs for > > >toxic heat like Ban Lan Gan, Da Qing Ye, and Zi Hua Di Ding. Then I > > >will add herbs like Ge Gen and Man Jing Zi and Ju Hua for the head and > > >neck. > > > > > >Any ideas? One thing I'm wondering about is whether to add phlegm > > >resolving herbs, and if so, what herbs? It seems that there must be > > >phlegm, but its really not very apparent. I'm thinking it must be a > > >liver/gallbladder phlegmheat thing rather than being in the > > >lungs...does that make sense? If so, what herbs? > > > > > >I'm not particularly advanced at treating colds and flus past the > > >first stage with herbs, so any ideas at all would be greatly > > >appreciated. By the way--its definitely a virus rather than a > > >bacteria as evidenced by the fact that one of them has been on two > > >different antibiotics without clearing it up. > > > > > >Thanks in advance. > > > > > >Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Laura, I have on hand in my clinic a formula which is affectionately called " dirt pills " . It is in fact Niu Huang Jie Du Pien. It is packaged as 8 round small dirt like pills, eight to a vial, 10 or 12 vials to a box. It is from Tong Ren Tang, Biejing, and the box is mostly yellow. Its basically a wind heat formula but it has the addition of Gall Stone from the cow (Niu Huang) in it, so can be used for toxic heat as well. Now I used to do raw chinese herbs in my clinic for about 7 years, and all of my wind heat/cold formulas would contain Jing Jie and Fang Feng in them to release the superficial as a base with heat clearer or cold warmers added. Since changing over to powdered single herbs and patented formulas for their ease of storage and administration I have on my shelf the above formula and a few others to add to it to modify for the specific presentation. The beauty of this formula is not only can it clear from the first stage (kind of sledge hammer approach) but can go on to treat nearly all the other manifestations of progression of windheat or when wind cold turns to heat ie. high fevers, toxic heat throat, ears, eyes, sinuses. A most useful formula. At the first sign of a cold or flu take 2 pills with warm water, if still sore throat after 20 minutes, take another 2 or 4. If the patient has obvious cold symptoms take above formula with ginger and honey tea can add a stick of cinnamon with it. If the patient has obvious heat symptoms, take the above formula with peppermint and honey tea. In my clinic these approaches account for 90% of colds and flus If the patients symptoms continue on and develop URTI or Bronchitis etc, take above formula every 4 hours with ginger tea and add 1000mg of VitC. This approach will shorten the duration and severity of the flu Can add Qing Qi Hua Tan Wan, or Ding Chuan Wan if wheezing as well. If the patient goes into high fevers & /or head, neck, chest pains etc add Huang Lian Jie Du Wan (Huang Lian, Qin,Bai plus Zhi Zi) very specific toxic heat clearer for when wind heat/cold worsens, take till toxicity symptoms disappear and then continue for 1 or 2 days later. If the patient gets severe cold/flu on top of existing sinuses take above formula (niu huang) with Pe Min Kan Wan. Add Huang formula if sinuses produce green mucous. Though maybe this may appear as a non specific approach it has not failed me yet. In my family and circle nobody has a cold or flu for longer than 1 or 2 days and mostly do not develop. In my clients, if this approach fails it is nearly always due to lack of compliance or following the rules close enough. With Huang Lian formula, this is very strong, and very effective for toxic heat presentations, but very cold and bitter. Take until no more symptoms then for 1 or 2 more days or until the first sign of loose bowels. These above situations will work as long as there are symptom still in the superficial layers including chest etc. The only time i can recall that they didnt was when the flu was wiping peoples energy strongly and so i added to the above Bu Zhong Yi Qi tang and this worked well. Case Study: Child 9 years old with ear infection for last 3 months. Has had 3 courses of antibiotics which clear it, but then it returns after a few days when fininshed. A brown mucousy discharge coming from ear chronically, whole ear tender to touch. Tonsils enlarged. Child slighlty flushed and spirit low. Administered Acupuncture to ear pts in front of ear (GB , SJ, SI) plus St 36 and SJ3 with intention to carry Qi to ear. Ear had been very tender to touch including the cheek close to ear. After acupuncture, ear and cheek mostly pain free and child can hear better. Sent home with Niu Huang Jie Du Pian, 2 pills every 4 hours. Mother called me following day saying ear was a lot better but that tendernes was returning. Gave Huang Lian formula to be takent at same time as other formula @ 6 pills each time Saw child in street 2 days later and talked to mother, pain completely gone and discharge almost all gone, advised to continue treatment which she did for another few days to discharge gone and then 2 days more. 3 weeks later no return of signs or symptoms and nearly all neck lumps gone Hope this is useful Anita >heylaurag wrote: > > >>I want to throw in a couple more specific questions-- >> >>1. I have thought of adding a little Da Huang to guide the heat out. >> Anyone know if that's a good idea for this kind of thing? >> >>2. Since this has stuck around for several months I am thinking of >>adding Ren Shen to help the body kick it out, but I'm not sure if >>that's a timely choice. All of these patients actually seem >>relatively sturdy, in their 30's, professionals....STRESSED OUT >>professionals (really makes you think of the liver/gallbladder, huh?). >> >>3. So if this is more liver/gallbladder, how much should I still >>focus on the lungs with herbs like Jie Geng, Xing Ren, Zhe Bei Mu >>etc.? >> >>I know without seeing the patients you can only have so much to say, >>but any thoughts might help. >> >> >> ---------- Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release 3/18/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Anita, I very much appreciate this information. It is incredibly useful to know a " quick and dirty " way to approach these things because even if I can sometimes create a specific granule formula, there are times when I just don't have the time to do so (like when a patient shows up unexpectedly with an EPI and I only have a short time to treat them, devise a formula, and fill it before the next patient). Would this be the correct link to go to get these formulas?: http://www.chinesemall.com/tongrentang.html Did you get all of them there (I only see Niu Huang Jie Du Pien)? I can make the others, but I don't know what Pe Min Kan Wan is and I don't see it on that site. Here's the list of formulas that I see in your post, and a summary as I understood what you said: 1. Niu Huang Jie Du Wan---the main formula 2. Qing Qi Hua Tan or Ding Chuan Wan with wheezing 3. Huang Lian Jie Du Wan if more heat symtoms develop 4. If cold/flu on top of an existing sinuses condition: Niu Huang Jie Du Wan plus Pe Min Kan Wan with Huang Lian Jie Du Wan if green mucus. Did I get that right? The tricky thing with this current bug is that its been lingering for quite awhile and there aren't really a lot of heat symptoms---nobody even has much in the way of phlegm and their nose is clear. What would you give at this point if the formula I've given doesn't work? I still would like to explore these ideas, so if others have more to share please bring it on! Laura Chinese Medicine , Anita Binnington <abinnington@s...> wrote: > Hi Laura, > I have on hand in my clinic a formula which is affectionately called > " dirt pills " . It is in fact Niu Huang Jie Du Pien. It is packaged as 8 > round small dirt like pills, eight to a vial, 10 or 12 vials to a box. > It is from Tong Ren Tang, Biejing, and the box is mostly yellow. Its > basically a wind heat formula but it has the addition of Gall Stone from > the cow (Niu Huang) in it, so can be used for toxic heat as well. Now I > used to do raw chinese herbs in my clinic for about 7 years, and all of > my wind heat/cold formulas would contain Jing Jie and Fang Feng in them > to release the superficial as a base with heat clearer or cold warmers > added. Since changing over to powdered single herbs and patented > formulas for their ease of storage and administration I have on my shelf > the above formula and a few others to add to it to modify for the > specific presentation. > The beauty of this formula is not only can it clear from the first stage > (kind of sledge hammer approach) but can go on to treat nearly all the > other manifestations of progression of windheat or when wind cold turns > to heat ie. high fevers, toxic heat throat, ears, eyes, sinuses. A most > useful formula. > At the first sign of a cold or flu take 2 pills with warm water, if > still sore throat after 20 minutes, take another 2 or 4. If the patient > has obvious cold symptoms take above formula with ginger and honey tea > can add a stick of cinnamon with it. If the patient has obvious heat > symptoms, take the above formula with peppermint and honey tea. > In my clinic these approaches account for 90% of colds and flus > If the patients symptoms continue on and develop URTI or Bronchitis etc, > take above formula every 4 hours with ginger tea and add 1000mg of > VitC. This approach will shorten the duration and severity of the flu > Can add Qing Qi Hua Tan Wan, or Ding Chuan Wan if wheezing as well. > If the patient goes into high fevers & /or head, neck, chest pains etc > add Huang Lian Jie Du Wan (Huang Lian, Qin,Bai plus Zhi Zi) very > specific toxic heat clearer for when wind heat/cold worsens, take till > toxicity symptoms disappear and then continue for 1 or 2 days later. > If the patient gets severe cold/flu on top of existing sinuses take > above formula (niu huang) with Pe Min Kan Wan. > Add Huang formula if sinuses produce green mucous. > Though maybe this may appear as a non specific approach it has not > failed me yet. In my family and circle nobody has a cold or flu for > longer than 1 or 2 days and mostly do not develop. In my clients, if > this approach fails it is nearly always due to lack of compliance or > following the rules close enough. > With Huang Lian formula, this is very strong, and very effective for > toxic heat presentations, but very cold and bitter. Take until no more > symptoms then for 1 or 2 more days or until the first sign of loose bowels. > These above situations will work as long as there are symptom still in > the superficial layers including chest etc. > The only time i can recall that they didnt was when the flu was wiping > peoples energy strongly and so i added to the above Bu Zhong Yi Qi tang > and this worked well. > Case Study: > Child 9 years old with ear infection for last 3 months. Has had 3 > courses of antibiotics which clear it, but then it returns after a few > days when fininshed. A brown mucousy discharge coming from ear > chronically, whole ear tender to touch. Tonsils enlarged. > Child slighlty flushed and spirit low. > Administered Acupuncture to ear pts in front of ear (GB , SJ, SI) plus > St 36 and SJ3 with intention to carry Qi to ear. > Ear had been very tender to touch including the cheek close to ear. > After acupuncture, ear and cheek mostly pain free and child can hear > better. Sent home with Niu Huang Jie Du Pian, 2 pills every 4 hours. > Mother called me following day saying ear was a lot better but that > tendernes was returning. > Gave Huang Lian formula to be takent at same time as other formula @ 6 > pills each time > Saw child in street 2 days later and talked to mother, pain completely > gone and discharge almost all gone, advised to continue treatment which > she did for another few days to discharge gone and then 2 days more. > 3 weeks later no return of signs or symptoms and nearly all neck lumps gone > Hope this is useful > Anita > > > >heylaurag wrote: > > > > > >>I want to throw in a couple more specific questions-- > >> > >>1. I have thought of adding a little Da Huang to guide the heat out. > >> Anyone know if that's a good idea for this kind of thing? > >> > >>2. Since this has stuck around for several months I am thinking of > >>adding Ren Shen to help the body kick it out, but I'm not sure if > >>that's a timely choice. All of these patients actually seem > >>relatively sturdy, in their 30's, professionals....STRESSED OUT > >>professionals (really makes you think of the liver/gallbladder, huh?). > >> > >>3. So if this is more liver/gallbladder, how much should I still > >>focus on the lungs with herbs like Jie Geng, Xing Ren, Zhe Bei Mu > >>etc.? > >> > >>I know without seeing the patients you can only have so much to say, > >>but any thoughts might help. > >> > >> > >> > > > ---------- > > > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release 3/18/2005 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Another thing--I have trouble knowing when its ok to add something like Xuan Shen or Sheng di Huang when treating an EPI in someone with pre-existing liver/kidney yin xu (and which one?). One of my patients is just starting her period and it seems like an especially good idea with her (she's already yin xu as it is). I haven't heard of using Xuan Shen or Sheng Di Huang when using Xiao Chai Hu Tang though. Laura Chinese Medicine , " heylaurag " <heylaurag@h...> wrote: > > Hi Anita, > > I very much appreciate this information. It is incredibly useful to > know a " quick and dirty " way to approach these things because even if > I can sometimes create a specific granule formula, there are times > when I just don't have the time to do so (like when a patient shows up > unexpectedly with an EPI and I only have a short time to treat them, > devise a formula, and fill it before the next patient). > > Would this be the correct link to go to get these formulas?: > > http://www.chinesemall.com/tongrentang.html > > Did you get all of them there (I only see Niu Huang Jie Du Pien)? I > can make the others, but I don't know what Pe Min Kan Wan is and I > don't see it on that site. > > Here's the list of formulas that I see in your post, and a summary as > I understood what you said: > > 1. Niu Huang Jie Du Wan---the main formula > 2. Qing Qi Hua Tan or Ding Chuan Wan with wheezing > 3. Huang Lian Jie Du Wan if more heat symtoms develop > 4. If cold/flu on top of an existing sinuses condition: Niu Huang > Jie Du Wan plus Pe Min Kan Wan with Huang Lian Jie Du Wan if green > mucus. > > Did I get that right? The tricky thing with this current bug is that > its been lingering for quite awhile and there aren't really a lot of > heat symptoms---nobody even has much in the way of phlegm and their > nose is clear. What would you give at this point if the formula I've > given doesn't work? > > I still would like to explore these ideas, so if others have more to > share please bring it on! > > Laura > Chinese Medicine , Anita Binnington > <abinnington@s...> wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > I have on hand in my clinic a formula which is affectionately called > > " dirt pills " . It is in fact Niu Huang Jie Du Pien. It is packaged as 8 > > round small dirt like pills, eight to a vial, 10 or 12 vials to a box. > > It is from Tong Ren Tang, Biejing, and the box is mostly yellow. Its > > basically a wind heat formula but it has the addition of Gall Stone > from > > the cow (Niu Huang) in it, so can be used for toxic heat as well. Now I > > used to do raw chinese herbs in my clinic for about 7 years, and all of > > my wind heat/cold formulas would contain Jing Jie and Fang Feng in them > > to release the superficial as a base with heat clearer or cold warmers > > added. Since changing over to powdered single herbs and patented > > formulas for their ease of storage and administration I have on my > shelf > > the above formula and a few others to add to it to modify for the > > specific presentation. > > The beauty of this formula is not only can it clear from the first > stage > > (kind of sledge hammer approach) but can go on to treat nearly all the > > other manifestations of progression of windheat or when wind cold turns > > to heat ie. high fevers, toxic heat throat, ears, eyes, sinuses. A most > > useful formula. > > At the first sign of a cold or flu take 2 pills with warm water, if > > still sore throat after 20 minutes, take another 2 or 4. If the patient > > has obvious cold symptoms take above formula with ginger and honey tea > > can add a stick of cinnamon with it. If the patient has obvious heat > > symptoms, take the above formula with peppermint and honey tea. > > In my clinic these approaches account for 90% of colds and flus > > If the patients symptoms continue on and develop URTI or Bronchitis > etc, > > take above formula every 4 hours with ginger tea and add 1000mg of > > VitC. This approach will shorten the duration and severity of the flu > > Can add Qing Qi Hua Tan Wan, or Ding Chuan Wan if wheezing as well. > > If the patient goes into high fevers & /or head, neck, chest pains etc > > add Huang Lian Jie Du Wan (Huang Lian, Qin,Bai plus Zhi Zi) very > > specific toxic heat clearer for when wind heat/cold worsens, take till > > toxicity symptoms disappear and then continue for 1 or 2 days later. > > If the patient gets severe cold/flu on top of existing sinuses take > > above formula (niu huang) with Pe Min Kan Wan. > > Add Huang formula if sinuses produce green mucous. > > Though maybe this may appear as a non specific approach it has not > > failed me yet. In my family and circle nobody has a cold or flu for > > longer than 1 or 2 days and mostly do not develop. In my clients, if > > this approach fails it is nearly always due to lack of compliance or > > following the rules close enough. > > With Huang Lian formula, this is very strong, and very effective for > > toxic heat presentations, but very cold and bitter. Take until no more > > symptoms then for 1 or 2 more days or until the first sign of loose > bowels. > > These above situations will work as long as there are symptom still in > > the superficial layers including chest etc. > > The only time i can recall that they didnt was when the flu was wiping > > peoples energy strongly and so i added to the above Bu Zhong Yi Qi tang > > and this worked well. > > Case Study: > > Child 9 years old with ear infection for last 3 months. Has had 3 > > courses of antibiotics which clear it, but then it returns after a few > > days when fininshed. A brown mucousy discharge coming from ear > > chronically, whole ear tender to touch. Tonsils enlarged. > > Child slighlty flushed and spirit low. > > Administered Acupuncture to ear pts in front of ear (GB , SJ, SI) plus > > St 36 and SJ3 with intention to carry Qi to ear. > > Ear had been very tender to touch including the cheek close to ear. > > After acupuncture, ear and cheek mostly pain free and child can hear > > better. Sent home with Niu Huang Jie Du Pian, 2 pills every 4 hours. > > Mother called me following day saying ear was a lot better but that > > tendernes was returning. > > Gave Huang Lian formula to be takent at same time as other formula @ 6 > > pills each time > > Saw child in street 2 days later and talked to mother, pain completely > > gone and discharge almost all gone, advised to continue treatment which > > she did for another few days to discharge gone and then 2 days more. > > 3 weeks later no return of signs or symptoms and nearly all neck > lumps gone > > Hope this is useful > > Anita > > > > > > >heylaurag wrote: > > > > > > > > >>I want to throw in a couple more specific questions-- > > >> > > >>1. I have thought of adding a little Da Huang to guide the heat out. > > >> Anyone know if that's a good idea for this kind of thing? > > >> > > >>2. Since this has stuck around for several months I am thinking of > > >>adding Ren Shen to help the body kick it out, but I'm not sure if > > >>that's a timely choice. All of these patients actually seem > > >>relatively sturdy, in their 30's, professionals....STRESSED OUT > > >>professionals (really makes you think of the liver/gallbladder, huh?). > > >> > > >>3. So if this is more liver/gallbladder, how much should I still > > >>focus on the lungs with herbs like Jie Geng, Xing Ren, Zhe Bei Mu > > >>etc.? > > >> > > >>I know without seeing the patients you can only have so much to say, > > >>but any thoughts might help. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release 3/18/2005 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? Laura Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen <petet@a...> wrote: > heylaurag wrote: > > > > I want to throw in a couple more specific questions-- > > > > 1. I have thought of adding a little Da Huang to guide the heat out. > > Anyone know if that's a good idea for this kind of thing? > > > > 2. Since this has stuck around for several months I am thinking of > > adding Ren Shen to help the body kick it out, but I'm not sure if > > that's a timely choice. All of these patients actually seem > > relatively sturdy, in their 30's, professionals....STRESSED OUT > > professionals (really makes you think of the liver/gallbladder, huh?). > > > > 3. So if this is more liver/gallbladder, how much should I still > > focus on the lungs with herbs like Jie Geng, Xing Ren, Zhe Bei Mu > > etc.? > > > > I know without seeing the patients you can only have so much to say, > > but any thoughts might help. > > > > Hi Dr. Laura! > > Without seeing the patient, time-release Vitamin C, as much as the > patient can take short of having diarrhea. Have had no cold/flu cases > that did not resolve with this. It's not TCM, but it has always worked > for me. > > To bad it doesn't do anything for peripheral neuropathy! > > Regards, > > Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 heylaurag wrote: > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? Hi Laura! Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot but there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has really, really put it on the map. This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is *that* good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get paid for prescribing it. If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it out in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have to know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I have them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was better? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hey Pete, That's great! Not so great on your pocketbook though, huh? So how much do you tell them to take? The bottle I have says 1000 mg a day--how much more can you safely take? I know you said " as much as you can handle without getting diarrhea " , but I'd like some parameter to tell them. I would be thrilled to stop treating cold/flus---they always get in the way of my treatment plans for other issues. Laura Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen <petet@a...> wrote: > heylaurag wrote: > > > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? > > Hi Laura! > > Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost > immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot but > there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which > destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has really, > really put it on the map. > > This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is *that* > good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get paid > for prescribing it. > > If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune > system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it out > in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have to > know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. > > It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu > business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I have > them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or > injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. > > Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed > out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. > > I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper > than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was better? > > Regards, > > Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Laura, Although I am still waiting for some symptom, pulse and tongue data, It sounds like this is a later stage of the condition, with yin vacuity heat latent in the qi and ying aspects. It would be a great mistake to give powerful heat-clearing prescriptions such as huang lian jie du pian, or niu huang jie du pian at this point. They are designed for acute stages of warm disease, not lingering, later stages. Also, you cannot use xiao chai hu tang unless there are shao yang symptoms such as alternating heat and chill, bitter taste, nausea, or rib-side pain. But it certainly is safer than some of the other choices given. This condition looks very much like a spring-warmth pattern. In order to treat such conditions, one has to know the stage it is in, and study warm disease/wen bing theory and the Shang Han Lun. These are the methods of pattern differentiation we use in Chinese medicine for infectious diseases, not zang-fu theory primarily. Otherwise, one will miss the mark and potentially make the condition worse. Giving strong, bitter cold formulas designed for early, acute stages is not much better than overdosing with antibiotics. Chinese medicine has elegant strategies for dealing with these epidemic conditions, and if you study wen bing for the future, understanding how infectious diseases change over time, you will be able to choose the right prescription at the right time. Although yin qiao san is known for early stage conditions, one can use it at any stage in combination with other formulas or medicinals if there are qi aspect symptoms that remain that can be addressed by it. We can be flexible with how we use Chinese formulas when we study the theories that were developed to treat this problems in the first place. On Mar 19, 2005, at 10:11 PM, heylaurag wrote: > Did I get that right? The tricky thing with this current bug is that > its been lingering for quite awhile and there aren't really a lot of > heat symptoms---nobody even has much in the way of phlegm and their > nose is clear. What would you give at this point if the formula I've > given doesn't work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 heylaurag wrote: > > Hey Pete, > > That's great! Not so great on your pocketbook though, huh? So how > much do you tell them to take? The bottle I have says 1000 mg a > day--how much more can you safely take? I know you said " as much as > you can handle without getting diarrhea " , but I'd like some > parameter to tell them. Hi Laura! It would vary from person to person, that's why I say " as much as you can handle without getting diarrhea " . That is while they are fighting a cold. When the person is not sick, the maintenance dose to *not* get sick is on the order of 6000mg per day for me (185 lbs.), maybe 4000 mg for a normal weight woman of average height. They should be taking their other supplements as well, and any vitamin C in a multivitamin would count toward that. The other vitamins should be time release also. Patients on this sort of a program won't get colds, maybe won't get any infections. Younger ones won't even get skin rashes. You will have plenty of time for your other issues. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Laura, The formuals I have suggested are for a external attack (at this stage nearly all are full conditions) and because they are in pattented form, easy to take and carry around. I present these as a useful clinincal approach and this is the one which I use and have done for many years. As I said it works for 90% of EPI's that come in my door. heylaurag wrote: Did you get all of them there (I only see Niu Huang Jie Du Pien)? Ican make the others, but I don't know what Pe Min Kan Wan is and Idon't see it on that site. A: I live in Australia, and my distrubutor is in Sydney. Make sure the Niu Huang is the Beijing variety because the others replace the Niu Huang with other herbs. >Here's the list of formulas that I see in your post, and a summary as >I understood what you said: > >1. Niu Huang Jie Du Wan---the main formula > > Yes, can be used for any 'itis' from the neck up including upper respitory, and it is very versatile. I have it on hand and use it for exterior presentations because it is a sledge hammer for children and adults alike and works usually within 20 mins. It also can be used for progression into full heat or toxic heat. Add peppermint tea for wind heat. Add ginger and cinnamon tea with honey also for wind cold. Part of the reason why it may work so well is that many westerners are stressed out and running on empty Yin etc and often present with full heat or cold transformed to heat early on in the EPI. >2. Qing Qi Hua Tan or Ding Chuan Wan with wheezing > > These formuals are for presentations with phlegm heat in the lungs developing , often in colds and flus when bronchitis develops. Qing Qi is for acute or chronic bronchitis or pneumonia (among other things) We westerners often do not treat the first stage of EPI and it is already sinking deeper into the chest by the time we see our clients. Ding Chuan is for pathogens sinking into the chest but with either a pre-existing asthma condition (very common in the west)or from severe cold wrapping and trapping heat inside the chest. >3. Huang Lian Jie Du Wan if more heat symtoms develop > For instance >ie pulse is full on all positions or at least the positions where the sypmtoms are showing up.This formula is for mild types of fire toxin. or heat which is now sinking into the blood level with signs and symptoms such as ulcerated mucosa of the mouth, acne, dermatitis, epistaxis. I use it if the signs and symtoms worsen with higher fever etc. It is also good to use it as a herbal antibiotic. For this it is very effective. I have used this formula for giardia, cystitis and chronic ear infections as long as as you know there is infection/inflammation going on, can be chronic or acute. The reason is that it clears heat from all 3 heaters and does it through the urine because of the use of Zhi Zi.(You would only add Da Huang if there is constipation and because this is purging of the srong type this is used more for a Yang Ming Fu presentation ie full heat with constipation= pathogenic factor and up right qi strong still.) > > >4. If cold/flu on top of an existing sinuses condition: Niu Huang >Jie Du Wan plus Pe Min Kan Wan with Huang Lian Jie Du Wan if green >mucus. > > These formulas are for when the pulse on the lung and or stomach/spleen are superficial still There a 3 formulas by that name that I am aware of. Pi Min Kan Wan from Guandong Shaoqing Pharmaceutical Factory in China. It contains Xin Yi Hua, Cang Er Zi, Mu Dan Pi, Huo Xiang, Jing Jie, Bai Zhi. There is another from China of the same name and almost the same packaging but it contains cortisone, its packaging is a darker green box. Then there is Pi Min Kan Wan fromWild Plants Research Centre, PRC (Taiwan). It contains Huang Qin, Cang Er Zi, Huo Xiang, E Bu Shi Cao (centipede) and Dang Gui. I apply these as necessary. >Did I get that right? The tricky thing with this current bug is that >its been lingering for quite awhile and there aren't really a lot of >heat symptoms---nobody even has much in the way of phlegm and their >nose is clear. What would you give at this point if the formula I've >given doesn't work? > > Firstly I would look in the ear with my little light and check to see if there is redness etc in there. I would take the pulse and tongue picture and determine how much pathogenic factor is in the superficial layers still, what state the upright qi is in as well as kidney and liver, yin and yang. I would check the spirit and strength of voice, colour of face, to determine wether to strengthen yin or yang and how much to clear pathogenic factor, based on these finding s then a formula can be devised. Maybe a formula such as Jia Wei Xiao Yao San, or Dang Gui Si Ni Jia Wu Zhu Yu and Sheng Jiang will do it. Can be many different stories. In short we need further pulse, tongue, signs and symptoms to determine which formula is correct. So lastly, the application of these above formulas are based on my own experiences of treating in my own clinic, and as such represents a short hand approach to these conditions which I have found very useful, and you may also .. If it is a discussion on Shang Han or Wen Bing that you would prefer, then I have had the good fortune to do some post graduate work with, amongst others, a Professor Zhang Wen Xuan of the Beijing University of who specializies in the Shang Han Lun. He is also employed by Shisheido skin products in Japan! Also the application of the Shang Han by Japanese Meridian Therapy. Shang Han Lun forumlas are applied to more than external progression of disease in modern China and Japan . I would be happy to share some of this with you Hope this is clinically useful Anita >I still would like to explore these ideas, so if others have more to >share please bring it on! > > Laura > > > > > > > >Chinese Medicine , Anita Binnington ><abinnington@s...> wrote: > > >>Hi Laura, >>I have on hand in my clinic a formula which is affectionately called >> " dirt pills " . It is in fact Niu Huang Jie Du Pien. It is packaged as 8 >>round small dirt like pills, eight to a vial, 10 or 12 vials to a box. >>It is from Tong Ren Tang, Biejing, and the box is mostly yellow. Its >>basically a wind heat formula but it has the addition of Gall Stone >> >> >from > > >>the cow (Niu Huang) in it, so can be used for toxic heat as well. Now I >>used to do raw chinese herbs in my clinic for about 7 years, and all of >>my wind heat/cold formulas would contain Jing Jie and Fang Feng in them >>to release the superficial as a base with heat clearer or cold warmers >>added. Since changing over to powdered single herbs and patented >>formulas for their ease of storage and administration I have on my >> >> >shelf > > >>the above formula and a few others to add to it to modify for the >>specific presentation. >>The beauty of this formula is not only can it clear from the first >> >> >stage > > >>(kind of sledge hammer approach) but can go on to treat nearly all the >>other manifestations of progression of windheat or when wind cold turns >>to heat ie. high fevers, toxic heat throat, ears, eyes, sinuses. A most >>useful formula. >>At the first sign of a cold or flu take 2 pills with warm water, if >>still sore throat after 20 minutes, take another 2 or 4. If the patient >>has obvious cold symptoms take above formula with ginger and honey tea >>can add a stick of cinnamon with it. If the patient has obvious heat >>symptoms, take the above formula with peppermint and honey tea. >>In my clinic these approaches account for 90% of colds and flus >>If the patients symptoms continue on and develop URTI or Bronchitis >> >> >etc, > > >>take above formula every 4 hours with ginger tea and add 1000mg of >>VitC. This approach will shorten the duration and severity of the flu >>Can add Qing Qi Hua Tan Wan, or Ding Chuan Wan if wheezing as well. >>If the patient goes into high fevers & /or head, neck, chest pains etc >>add Huang Lian Jie Du Wan (Huang Lian, Qin,Bai plus Zhi Zi) very >>specific toxic heat clearer for when wind heat/cold worsens, take till >>toxicity symptoms disappear and then continue for 1 or 2 days later. >>If the patient gets severe cold/flu on top of existing sinuses take >>above formula (niu huang) with Pe Min Kan Wan. >>Add Huang formula if sinuses produce green mucous. >>Though maybe this may appear as a non specific approach it has not >>failed me yet. In my family and circle nobody has a cold or flu for >>longer than 1 or 2 days and mostly do not develop. In my clients, if >>this approach fails it is nearly always due to lack of compliance or >>following the rules close enough. >>With Huang Lian formula, this is very strong, and very effective for >>toxic heat presentations, but very cold and bitter. Take until no more >>symptoms then for 1 or 2 more days or until the first sign of loose >> >> >bowels. > > >>These above situations will work as long as there are symptom still in >>the superficial layers including chest etc. >>The only time i can recall that they didnt was when the flu was wiping >>peoples energy strongly and so i added to the above Bu Zhong Yi Qi tang >>and this worked well. >>Case Study: >>Child 9 years old with ear infection for last 3 months. Has had 3 >>courses of antibiotics which clear it, but then it returns after a few >>days when fininshed. A brown mucousy discharge coming from ear >>chronically, whole ear tender to touch. Tonsils enlarged. >>Child slighlty flushed and spirit low. >>Administered Acupuncture to ear pts in front of ear (GB , SJ, SI) plus >>St 36 and SJ3 with intention to carry Qi to ear. >>Ear had been very tender to touch including the cheek close to ear. >>After acupuncture, ear and cheek mostly pain free and child can hear >>better. Sent home with Niu Huang Jie Du Pian, 2 pills every 4 hours. >>Mother called me following day saying ear was a lot better but that >>tendernes was returning. >>Gave Huang Lian formula to be takent at same time as other formula @ 6 >>pills each time >>Saw child in street 2 days later and talked to mother, pain completely >>gone and discharge almost all gone, advised to continue treatment which >>she did for another few days to discharge gone and then 2 days more. >>3 weeks later no return of signs or symptoms and nearly all neck >> >> >lumps gone > > >>Hope this is useful >>Anita >> >> >> >> ---------- Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release 3/18/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 HI Pete and Laura, I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an 'herb'? A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce symptoms to nothing with in hours. For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the finger and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. Best wishes, Pete Theisen [petet] Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Re: Ear infections heylaurag wrote: > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? Hi Laura! Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot but there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has really, really put it on the map. This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is *that* good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get paid for prescribing it. If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it out in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have to know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I have them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was better? Regards, Pete http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Sharon, One of my patients tried the hydrogen peroxide in only the left ear to compare to the other. She said at first and for several hours that ear felt more clogged. Then I saw her later that day and it was interesting because her glands on teh left side were not swollen the way her glands on her right side were---seemed like a good sign to me. She also said that as her left ear felt better her left nose got clogged temporarily. I have since given her herbs, and she is getting better, so its hard to know whether the herbs or the peroxide or both have helped. But my since is that the peroxide was helpful--and hse only did it to one ear and only did it once. Regarding the moxa, are you saying to moxa the area of the ring finger on the side closer to the pinky finger or on the side closer to the middle finger? It doesn't sound like you are talking about jingwell points, but instead an area further down closer to the palm side, right? Is it rice moxa that you use? Both hands or one? Thanks for the ideas! By the way, my guess is that peroxide would kill heat and toxicity. Anyone else have ideas? Laura Chinese Medicine , wrote: > HI Pete and Laura, > I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an > 'herb'? > > A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce symptoms > to nothing with in hours. > > For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the finger > and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. > Best wishes, > > > > Pete Theisen [petet@a...] > Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Re: Ear infections > > > heylaurag wrote: > > > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? > > Hi Laura! > > Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost > immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot but > there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which > destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has really, > really put it on the map. > > This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is *that* > good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get paid > for prescribing it. > > If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune > system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it out > in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have to > know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. > > It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu > business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I have > them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or > injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. > > Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed > out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. > > I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper > than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was better? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Laura, It might be interesting to note that we breath through one nostril at a time and change I think it is every 20 minutes, so the clogged nostril on the opposite side may have more to do with the breathing cycle than anything else. I think the idea of the peroxide is that the ears lack a mucus response and are perhaps more vulnerable and pathogens enter via the ear's Eustachian tubes. Also check out oxygen therapy on the net. The moxa is on the palm surface usually at the junction of the ring and pinky fingers, thanks for asking for clarification. Half grain size moxa. Personal experience of recurring ear infections had the infection almost totally on the run in 24 hrs. I compared this to anti-biotics which would take a week to clear up and then have the problem reassertive itself in days. Now I had previously been living in a damp environment for some time, a room down stairs under a house in a sub tropical climate as a student. I had had itchy ears for some time. I suspect there was a fungal connection to this ear as well as constitutional issues. Your fella with the anti-biotics sounds like a lingering pathogen that kids get. You might want to refer to homoeopathy as the problems might go back to vaccinations. Any flu shots in your patients??? I also had a response to a pathogen which has taken up residence in my tooth, my kinesiologist 'turned' off what he called an allergy response and my swollen painful glands subsided in hours. I suspect allot of symptoms may be caused by a hype-upped immune response (what he called an allergy). Best wishes, heylaurag [heylaurag] Tuesday, 22 March 2005 7:38 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Ear infections Hi Sharon, One of my patients tried the hydrogen peroxide in only the left ear to compare to the other. She said at first and for several hours that ear felt more clogged. Then I saw her later that day and it was interesting because her glands on teh left side were not swollen the way her glands on her right side were---seemed like a good sign to me. She also said that as her left ear felt better her left nose got clogged temporarily. I have since given her herbs, and she is getting better, so its hard to know whether the herbs or the peroxide or both have helped. But my since is that the peroxide was helpful--and hse only did it to one ear and only did it once. Regarding the moxa, are you saying to moxa the area of the ring finger on the side closer to the pinky finger or on the side closer to the middle finger? It doesn't sound like you are talking about jingwell points, but instead an area further down closer to the palm side, right? Is it rice moxa that you use? Both hands or one? Thanks for the ideas! By the way, my guess is that peroxide would kill heat and toxicity. Anyone else have ideas? Laura Chinese Medicine , wrote: > HI Pete and Laura, > I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an > 'herb'? > > A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce symptoms > to nothing with in hours. > > For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the finger > and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. > Best wishes, > > > > Pete Theisen [petet@a...] > Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Re: Ear infections > > > heylaurag wrote: > > > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? > > Hi Laura! > > Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost > immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot but > there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which > destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has really, > really put it on the map. > > This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is *that* > good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get paid > for prescribing it. > > If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune > system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it out > in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have to > know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. > > It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu > business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I have > them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or > injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. > > Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed > out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. > > I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper > than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was better? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 H2O2 is a wonderful " herb " which I use myself often. However, I have found that colloidal silver to be a much more benign solution that has similar if not better results. I spray colloidal silver in my throat and take large doses of Gan Mao Ling at the first sign of a cold and I just don't get sick when most people around me are getting quite sick. Colloidal silver doesn't sting or bubble like H2O2. Even my 3 year old daughter asks for it when her " teeth itch " . Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Sharon [] Monday, March 21, 2005 2:16 PM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Ear infections HI Pete and Laura, I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an 'herb'? A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce symptoms to nothing with in hours. For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the finger and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. Best wishes, Pete Theisen [petet] Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Re: Ear infections heylaurag wrote: > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? Hi Laura! Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot but there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has really, really put it on the map. This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is *that* good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get paid for prescribing it. If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it out in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have to know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I have them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was better? Regards, Pete http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Christopher, Do you make your own colloidal silver? How would you classify peroxide in TCM? I wonder if the metal point on the liver channel would increase the oxygen levels in blood and tissue? hmmmm? Best wishes, Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac. [ckvedeler] Tuesday, 22 March 2005 8:29 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Ear infections H2O2 is a wonderful " herb " which I use myself often. However, I have found that colloidal silver to be a much more benign solution that has similar if not better results. I spray colloidal silver in my throat and take large doses of Gan Mao Ling at the first sign of a cold and I just don't get sick when most people around me are getting quite sick. Colloidal silver doesn't sting or bubble like H2O2. Even my 3 year old daughter asks for it when her " teeth itch " . Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Sharon [] Monday, March 21, 2005 2:16 PM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Ear infections HI Pete and Laura, I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an 'herb'? A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce symptoms to nothing with in hours. For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the finger and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. Best wishes, Pete Theisen [petet] Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Re: Ear infections heylaurag wrote: > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? Hi Laura! Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot but there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has really, really put it on the map. This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is *that* good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get paid for prescribing it. If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it out in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have to know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I have them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was better? Regards, Pete http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 All: I just got a call from Heather--she is feeling much better with the addition of Zhe Bei Mu and Sheng Di Huang (plus a little Sha Ren to digest the Sheng di). No occipital headaches and the pressure in ears, in front of ears, and neck/glands is much better, mood better. Christopher--Have you ever used colloidal silver in your ear? Chinese Medicine , " Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac. " <ckvedeler@a...> wrote: > H2O2 is a wonderful " herb " which I use myself often. However, I have > found that colloidal silver to be a much more benign solution that has > similar if not better results. I spray colloidal silver in my throat > and take large doses of Gan Mao Ling at the first sign of a cold and I > just don't get sick when most people around me are getting quite sick. > > Colloidal silver doesn't sting or bubble like H2O2. Even my 3 year old > daughter asks for it when her " teeth itch " . > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. > Oasis Acupuncture > http://www.oasisacupuncture.com > 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte > Suite D-35 > Scottsdale, AZ 85258 > Phone: (480) 991-3650 > Fax: (480) 247-4472 > > > Sharon [] > Monday, March 21, 2005 2:16 PM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Ear infections > > > HI Pete and Laura, > I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an > 'herb'? > > A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce > symptoms > to nothing with in hours. > > For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the > finger > and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. > Best wishes, > > > > Pete Theisen [petet@a...] > Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Re: Ear infections > > > heylaurag wrote: > > > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like > this? > > Hi Laura! > > Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost > immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot > but > there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which > destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has > really, > really put it on the map. > > This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is > *that* > good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get > paid > for prescribing it. > > If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune > system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it > out > in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have > to > know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. > > It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu > business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I > have > them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or > injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. > > Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed > out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. > > I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper > than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was > better? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group > requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 If you want to increase oxygen levels you might check out a research article by Dr. Mukaino on his site. http://square.umin.ac.jp/mtnet/ Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > <> >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >RE: Re: Ear infections >Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:51:21 +1000 > >Hi Christopher, >Do you make your own colloidal silver? > >How would you classify peroxide in TCM? > >I wonder if the metal point on the liver channel would increase the oxygen >levels in blood and tissue? hmmmm? >Best wishes, > > > > Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac. [ckvedeler] > Tuesday, 22 March 2005 8:29 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Ear infections > > > H2O2 is a wonderful " herb " which I use myself often. However, I have > found that colloidal silver to be a much more benign solution that has > similar if not better results. I spray colloidal silver in my throat > and take large doses of Gan Mao Ling at the first sign of a cold and I > just don't get sick when most people around me are getting quite sick. > > Colloidal silver doesn't sting or bubble like H2O2. Even my 3 year old > daughter asks for it when her " teeth itch " . > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. > Oasis Acupuncture > http://www.oasisacupuncture.com > 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte > Suite D-35 > Scottsdale, AZ 85258 > Phone: (480) 991-3650 > Fax: (480) 247-4472 > > > Sharon [] > Monday, March 21, 2005 2:16 PM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Ear infections > > > HI Pete and Laura, > I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an > 'herb'? > > A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce > symptoms > to nothing with in hours. > > For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the > finger > and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. > Best wishes, > > > > Pete Theisen [petet] > Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Re: Ear infections > > > heylaurag wrote: > > > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like > this? > > Hi Laura! > > Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost > immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot > but > there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which > destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has > really, > really put it on the map. > > This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is > *that* > good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get > paid > for prescribing it. > > If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune > system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it > out > in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have > to > know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. > > It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu > business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I > have > them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or > injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. > > Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed > out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. > > I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper > than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was > better? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group > requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 I do make my own colloidal silver and sell it for $9.95 for a 4oz bottle. It is pretty easy to make once you filter through all the mis-information about making it on the web. If you are interested in how I can email people off list (since it isn't TCM). I think that both H2O2 and colloidal silver are pretty cold from a TCM perspective which makes sense if it fights damp heat (infection). I think that H2O2 has a somewhat bitter quality as well. Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Sharon [] Monday, March 21, 2005 3:51 PM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Ear infections Hi Christopher, Do you make your own colloidal silver? How would you classify peroxide in TCM? I wonder if the metal point on the liver channel would increase the oxygen levels in blood and tissue? hmmmm? Best wishes, Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac. [ckvedeler] Tuesday, 22 March 2005 8:29 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Ear infections H2O2 is a wonderful " herb " which I use myself often. However, I have found that colloidal silver to be a much more benign solution that has similar if not better results. I spray colloidal silver in my throat and take large doses of Gan Mao Ling at the first sign of a cold and I just don't get sick when most people around me are getting quite sick. Colloidal silver doesn't sting or bubble like H2O2. Even my 3 year old daughter asks for it when her " teeth itch " . Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Sharon [] Monday, March 21, 2005 2:16 PM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Ear infections HI Pete and Laura, I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an 'herb'? A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce symptoms to nothing with in hours. For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the finger and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. Best wishes, Pete Theisen [petet] Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Re: Ear infections heylaurag wrote: > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like this? Hi Laura! Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot but there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has really, really put it on the map. This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is *that* good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get paid for prescribing it. If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it out in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have to know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I have them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was better? Regards, Pete To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Yes I have used colloidal silver in my ear. No problems. It is great for kids since it does not bubble or sting. Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 heylaurag [heylaurag] Monday, March 21, 2005 3:57 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Ear infections All: I just got a call from Heather--she is feeling much better with the addition of Zhe Bei Mu and Sheng Di Huang (plus a little Sha Ren to digest the Sheng di). No occipital headaches and the pressure in ears, in front of ears, and neck/glands is much better, mood better. Christopher--Have you ever used colloidal silver in your ear? Chinese Medicine , " Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac. " <ckvedeler@a...> wrote: > H2O2 is a wonderful " herb " which I use myself often. However, I have > found that colloidal silver to be a much more benign solution that has > similar if not better results. I spray colloidal silver in my throat > and take large doses of Gan Mao Ling at the first sign of a cold and I > just don't get sick when most people around me are getting quite sick. > > Colloidal silver doesn't sting or bubble like H2O2. Even my 3 year old > daughter asks for it when her " teeth itch " . > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. > Oasis Acupuncture > http://www.oasisacupuncture.com > 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte > Suite D-35 > Scottsdale, AZ 85258 > Phone: (480) 991-3650 > Fax: (480) 247-4472 > > > Sharon [] > Monday, March 21, 2005 2:16 PM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Ear infections > > > HI Pete and Laura, > I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an > 'herb'? > > A few drops of 3% solution into the ears or as a gargle will reduce > symptoms > to nothing with in hours. > > For persistent ear problems, direct moxa x 5 on the junction of the > finger > and palm of the ring finger will also resolve ear infections. > Best wishes, > > > > Pete Theisen [petet@a...] > Sunday, 20 March 2005 4:54 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Re: Ear infections > > > heylaurag wrote: > > > > Hey Pete--have you used Vitamin C with something lingering like > this? > > Hi Laura! > > Yes, and on myself. Sick for months, cured it with vitamin C, almost > immediately. This is how I got on to it. My mother had used it a lot > but > there wasn't time release then and she was boiling it into a tea which > destroys a lot of its healing power. The time release thing has > really, > really put it on the map. > > This is why the Codex clique wants to make it prescription, it is > *that* > good and they want to tie it up under their practice laws so to get > paid > for prescribing it. > > If any illness has any possibility of being addressed by the immune > system, vitamin C time release is your best shot. Probably knock it > out > in a week, if the patient takes enough of the stuff. Don't even have > to > know what it is, damp heat, wind heat, whatever. > > It has for all intents and purposes put me out of the cold and flu > business, none of my patients get colds or flu any more now that I > have > them on time release vitamin C. It doesn't seem to help arthritis or > injuries very much, I still treat these with acupuncture and herbs. > > Regrettably, successful healing has hit me in my pocket. I just tossed > out a whole box of cold and flu patents that had gone out of date. > > I don't sell the Vitamin C myself because every store has it cheaper > than I can buy it. What would I do, tell people my vitamin C was > better? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group > requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Sharon wrote: > HI Pete and Laura, > I was wondering how you and others would rank hydrogen peroxide as an > 'herb'? Hi Sharon! I have not had occasion to use it for colds in 20+ years. I sometimes use it on a q-tip to clean out ear wax, however. I do not consider HP an herb, more a chemical disinfectant. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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