OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden and His Scumbag Group

October 10, 2001

Hatred YOU BET! I don't see racism can you explain?

hugs

sarah

> " michelle morton- niyama " <lakshmi

>

>Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin

>Laden and His Scumbag Group

>Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:31:27 -0400

>

>I just HAD to check that out- WOW the hatred and racism are stunning.

>

>-

>Butch Owen <butchbsi

>

>Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:31 PM

> OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden and

>His Scumbag Group

>

> > Hi y'all,

> >

> > As President Bush said, the " Evil Doers " are being brought to task in

> > the " Phase One " of Operations Plan A ... it's likely that the aerial

> > assaults on Afghanistan will terminate in the next 24 hours due to lack

> > of targets. Then Phase Two of Operations Plan A will probably begin

> > while Phase One of Operations Plans B and C and maybe even Operations

> > Plan D will kick off in other locations .. ;-p In time, Osama bin

> > Laden will be saying " Howdy! " to Ayatollah Khomeni and Adolph Hitler in

> > HELL cause inhuman slime doesn't make it to Heaven.

> >

> > If you wanna play around a bit - you can go here.

> >

> > http://webpages.homestead.com/mccdaddymachinegun/gattler.html

> >

> > If you wanna see 17 pages or compiled drawings and photos Americans have

> > put together - you can click the below URL. Some have a religious theme

> > - some are from the point of view of warriors .. all are patriotic.

> >

> > If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a peacenik/pacifist

> > or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken hold in America and

> > shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I recommend

> > you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon.

> >

> > There is nothing racist or pornographic here but this URL is not for

> > young children and it shouldn't be displayed in most Sunday School

> > Classes well,

> > maybe it's OK for some of those down South - I think the folks at First

> > Baptist in my ol' hometown would love these .. ;-p

> >

> > http://www.gritch.org/jfrancis/wtc.1.html

> >

> > My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> > http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

> >

October 10, 2001

Hi Michelle,

Hatred, sure... but where's the racism? I missed it... and a terrorist is still

a terrorist and that's what this war is all about, no matter of

the race, color, religion, sex... etc., it's still terrorism. What's racism even

got to do with this? We're all Americans here... I have no

clue as to anyone's color, religion, etc... nor does it matter... to me anyways.

I still believe in God Bless America and United We Stand.. -

which covers ALL Americans - racism just has no place there...

Marilyn

michelle morton- niyama wrote:

> I just HAD to check that out- WOW the hatred and racism are stunning.

>

> -

> Butch Owen <butchbsi

>

> Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:31 PM

> OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden and

> His Scumbag Group

>

> > Hi y'all,

> >

> > As President Bush said, the " Evil Doers " are being brought to task in

> > the " Phase One " of Operations Plan A ... it's likely that the aerial

> > assaults on Afghanistan will terminate in the next 24 hours due to lack

> > of targets. Then Phase Two of Operations Plan A will probably begin

> > while Phase One of Operations Plans B and C and maybe even Operations

> > Plan D will kick off in other locations .. ;-p In time, Osama bin

> > Laden will be saying " Howdy! " to Ayatollah Khomeni and Adolph Hitler in

> > HELL cause inhuman slime doesn't make it to Heaven.

> >

> > If you wanna play around a bit - you can go here.

> >

> > http://webpages.homestead.com/mccdaddymachinegun/gattler.html

> >

> > If you wanna see 17 pages or compiled drawings and photos Americans have

> > put together - you can click the below URL. Some have a religious theme

> > - some are from the point of view of warriors .. all are patriotic.

> >

> > If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a peacenik/pacifist

> > or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken hold in America and

> > shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I recommend

> > you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon.

> >

> > There is nothing racist or pornographic here but this URL is not for

> > young children and it shouldn't be displayed in most Sunday School

> > Classes well,

> > maybe it's OK for some of those down South - I think the folks at First

> > Baptist in my ol' hometown would love these .. ;-p

> >

> > http://www.gritch.org/jfrancis/wtc.1.html

> >

> > My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> > http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

> >

October 10, 2001

Everyone has their own opinion- I personally see racism in images like a

cartoon of OBL behind a 7-11 counter, as well as maps with " lake of america "

in place of afghanistan- I see these as poor, racist humor that goes beyond

the fact that OBL is a " scumbag "

-

Butch Owen <butchbsi

Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:31 PM

OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden and

His Scumbag Group

> Hi y'all,

>

> As President Bush said, the " Evil Doers " are being brought to task in

> the " Phase One " of Operations Plan A ... it's likely that the aerial

> assaults on Afghanistan will terminate in the next 24 hours due to lack

> of targets. Then Phase Two of Operations Plan A will probably begin

> while Phase One of Operations Plans B and C and maybe even Operations

> Plan D will kick off in other locations .. ;-p In time, Osama bin

> Laden will be saying " Howdy! " to Ayatollah Khomeni and Adolph Hitler in

> HELL cause inhuman slime doesn't make it to Heaven.

>

> If you wanna play around a bit - you can go here.

>

> http://webpages.homestead.com/mccdaddymachinegun/gattler.html

>

> If you wanna see 17 pages or compiled drawings and photos Americans have

> put together - you can click the below URL. Some have a religious theme

> - some are from the point of view of warriors .. all are patriotic.

>

> If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a peacenik/pacifist

> or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken hold in America and

> shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I recommend

> you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon.

>

> There is nothing racist or pornographic here but this URL is not for

> young children and it shouldn't be displayed in most Sunday School

> Classes well,

> maybe it's OK for some of those down South - I think the folks at First

> Baptist in my ol' hometown would love these .. ;-p

>

> http://www.gritch.org/jfrancis/wtc.1.html

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

October 10, 2001

Just gotta keep in mind that you're talking to and hearing from a guy who

lives in a country that is 90% Muslim, who hangs out with mostly Muslims,

and was even married to a Muslim (meaning, all in all I don't think he has a

problem with Muslims

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

-

" Karen Johnson " <johnson.ka

Wednesday, October 10, 2001 2:57 PM

Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

and His Scumbag Group

> Please don't be so dismissive or insulting to others beliefs

> Karen

>

> -

> Butch Owen <butchbsi

>

> Thursday, October 11, 2001 12:31 AM

> OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

and

> His Scumbag Group

>

> > Hi y'all,

> >

> > As President Bush said, the " Evil Doers " are being brought to task in

> > the " Phase One " of Operations Plan A ... it's likely that the aerial

> > assaults on Afghanistan will terminate in the next 24 hours due to lack

> > of targets. Then Phase Two of Operations Plan A will probably begin

> > while Phase One of Operations Plans B and C and maybe even Operations

> > Plan D will kick off in other locations .. ;-p In time, Osama bin

> > Laden will be saying " Howdy! " to Ayatollah Khomeni and Adolph Hitler in

> > HELL cause inhuman slime doesn't make it to Heaven.

> >

> > If you wanna play around a bit - you can go here.

> >

> > http://webpages.homestead.com/mccdaddymachinegun/gattler.html

> >

> > If you wanna see 17 pages or compiled drawings and photos Americans have

> > put together - you can click the below URL. Some have a religious theme

> > - some are from the point of view of warriors .. all are patriotic.

> >

> > If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a peacenik/pacifist

> > or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken hold in America and

> > shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I recommend

> > you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon.

> >

> > There is nothing racist or pornographic here but this URL is not for

> > young children and it shouldn't be displayed in most Sunday School

> > Classes well,

> > maybe it's OK for some of those down South - I think the folks at First

> > Baptist in my ol' hometown would love these .. ;-p

> >

> > http://www.gritch.org/jfrancis/wtc.1.html

October 10, 2001

Please don't be so dismissive or insulting to others beliefs

Karen

-

Butch Owen <butchbsi

Thursday, October 11, 2001 12:31 AM

OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden and

His Scumbag Group

> Hi y'all,

>

> As President Bush said, the " Evil Doers " are being brought to task in

> the " Phase One " of Operations Plan A ... it's likely that the aerial

> assaults on Afghanistan will terminate in the next 24 hours due to lack

> of targets. Then Phase Two of Operations Plan A will probably begin

> while Phase One of Operations Plans B and C and maybe even Operations

> Plan D will kick off in other locations .. ;-p In time, Osama bin

> Laden will be saying " Howdy! " to Ayatollah Khomeni and Adolph Hitler in

> HELL cause inhuman slime doesn't make it to Heaven.

>

> If you wanna play around a bit - you can go here.

>

> http://webpages.homestead.com/mccdaddymachinegun/gattler.html

>

> If you wanna see 17 pages or compiled drawings and photos Americans have

> put together - you can click the below URL. Some have a religious theme

> - some are from the point of view of warriors .. all are patriotic.

>

> If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a peacenik/pacifist

> or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken hold in America and

> shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I recommend

> you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon.

>

> There is nothing racist or pornographic here but this URL is not for

> young children and it shouldn't be displayed in most Sunday School

> Classes well,

> maybe it's OK for some of those down South - I think the folks at First

> Baptist in my ol' hometown would love these .. ;-p

>

> http://www.gritch.org/jfrancis/wtc.1.html

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

October 10, 2001

I don't think Butch is trying to insult anyone or any beliefs I think us

americans agree to despise the terrorists who committed this crime not there

country, there religion or any other group just the terrorists! And I'm

sure Butch has no issues with Muslims isn't Turkey majority Muslim?? He

gave fair warning it was an americans veiw!

hugs

sarah

> " Karen Johnson " <johnson.ka

>

>Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin

>Laden and His Scumbag Group

>Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:57:39 +0100

>

>Please don't be so dismissive or insulting to others beliefs

>Karen

>

>-

>Butch Owen <butchbsi

>

>Thursday, October 11, 2001 12:31 AM

> OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden and

>His Scumbag Group

>

> > Hi y'all,

> >

> > As President Bush said, the " Evil Doers " are being brought to task in

> > the " Phase One " of Operations Plan A ... it's likely that the aerial

> > assaults on Afghanistan will terminate in the next 24 hours due to lack

> > of targets. Then Phase Two of Operations Plan A will probably begin

> > while Phase One of Operations Plans B and C and maybe even Operations

> > Plan D will kick off in other locations .. ;-p In time, Osama bin

> > Laden will be saying " Howdy! " to Ayatollah Khomeni and Adolph Hitler in

> > HELL cause inhuman slime doesn't make it to Heaven.

> >

> > If you wanna play around a bit - you can go here.

> >

> > http://webpages.homestead.com/mccdaddymachinegun/gattler.html

> >

> > If you wanna see 17 pages or compiled drawings and photos Americans have

> > put together - you can click the below URL. Some have a religious theme

> > - some are from the point of view of warriors .. all are patriotic.

> >

> > If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a peacenik/pacifist

> > or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken hold in America and

> > shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I recommend

> > you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon.

> >

> > There is nothing racist or pornographic here but this URL is not for

> > young children and it shouldn't be displayed in most Sunday School

> > Classes well,

> > maybe it's OK for some of those down South - I think the folks at First

> > Baptist in my ol' hometown would love these .. ;-p

> >

> > http://www.gritch.org/jfrancis/wtc.1.html

> >

> > My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> > http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

> >

October 10, 2001

Thank you Michelle

-

michelle morton- niyama <lakshmi

Wednesday, October 10, 2001 8:46 PM

Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

and His Scumbag Group

> Everyone has their own opinion- I personally see racism in images like a

> cartoon of OBL behind a 7-11 counter, as well as maps with " lake of

america "

> in place of afghanistan- I see these as poor, racist humor that goes

beyond

> the fact that OBL is a " scumbag "

>

> -

> Butch Owen <butchbsi

>

> Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:31 PM

> OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

and

> His Scumbag Group

>

> > Hi y'all,

> >

> > As President Bush said, the " Evil Doers " are being brought to task in

> > the " Phase One " of Operations Plan A ... it's likely that the aerial

> > assaults on Afghanistan will terminate in the next 24 hours due to lack

> > of targets. Then Phase Two of Operations Plan A will probably begin

> > while Phase One of Operations Plans B and C and maybe even Operations

> > Plan D will kick off in other locations .. ;-p In time, Osama bin

> > Laden will be saying " Howdy! " to Ayatollah Khomeni and Adolph Hitler in

> > HELL cause inhuman slime doesn't make it to Heaven.

> >

> > If you wanna play around a bit - you can go here.

> >

> > http://webpages.homestead.com/mccdaddymachinegun/gattler.html

> >

> > If you wanna see 17 pages or compiled drawings and photos Americans have

> > put together - you can click the below URL. Some have a religious theme

> > - some are from the point of view of warriors .. all are patriotic.

> >

> > If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a peacenik/pacifist

> > or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken hold in America and

> > shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I recommend

> > you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon.

> >

> > There is nothing racist or pornographic here but this URL is not for

> > young children and it shouldn't be displayed in most Sunday School

> > Classes well,

> > maybe it's OK for some of those down South - I think the folks at First

> > Baptist in my ol' hometown would love these .. ;-p

> >

> > http://www.gritch.org/jfrancis/wtc.1.html

> >

> > My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> > http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

> >

October 10, 2001

Hi Karen,

It's hard to see people in pacifist/peace marches when we've had war declared on

us.... do we not or are we not supposed to defend ourselves?

Pacifism is wonderful, " in it's place " - keep in mind that this is " only " my

opinion and the same opinion, by each and every poll in America.

If you think not standing up to terrorism, will actually stop all this, think

again.. it won't. And remember.. perhaps those pacifists didn't

happen to volunteer in the massive clean-up that will be ongoing for probably a

year............or lose their friends, family or any loved

ones.... makes a bit of a difference......

I happen to think that United We Stand is a good thing... as is God Bless

America.......

Marilyn

Karen Johnson wrote:

> I was referring to the derogatory comments about pacifists

>

October 10, 2001

I was referring to the derogatory comments about pacifists

-

chrisziggy <chrisziggy1

Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:53 PM

Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

and His Scumbag Group

> Just gotta keep in mind that you're talking to and hearing from a guy who

> lives in a country that is 90% Muslim, who hangs out with mostly Muslims,

> and was even married to a Muslim (meaning, all in all I don't think he has

a

> problem with Muslims

> *Smile*

> Chris (list mom)

> http://www.alittleolfactory.com

>

> -

> " Karen Johnson " <johnson.ka

>

> Wednesday, October 10, 2001 2:57 PM

> Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin

Laden

> and His Scumbag Group

>

> > Please don't be so dismissive or insulting to others beliefs

> > Karen

> >

> > -

> > Butch Owen <butchbsi

> >

> > Thursday, October 11, 2001 12:31 AM

> > OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

> and

> > His Scumbag Group

> >

> > > Hi y'all,

> > >

> > > As President Bush said, the " Evil Doers " are being brought to task in

> > > the " Phase One " of Operations Plan A ... it's likely that the aerial

> > > assaults on Afghanistan will terminate in the next 24 hours due to

lack

> > > of targets. Then Phase Two of Operations Plan A will probably begin

> > > while Phase One of Operations Plans B and C and maybe even Operations

> > > Plan D will kick off in other locations .. ;-p In time, Osama bin

> > > Laden will be saying " Howdy! " to Ayatollah Khomeni and Adolph Hitler

in

> > > HELL cause inhuman slime doesn't make it to Heaven.

> > >

> > > If you wanna play around a bit - you can go here.

> > >

> > > http://webpages.homestead.com/mccdaddymachinegun/gattler.html

> > >

> > > If you wanna see 17 pages or compiled drawings and photos Americans

have

> > > put together - you can click the below URL. Some have a religious

theme

> > > - some are from the point of view of warriors .. all are patriotic.

> > >

> > > If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a

peacenik/pacifist

> > > or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken hold in America and

> > > shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I

recommend

> > > you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon.

> > >

> > > There is nothing racist or pornographic here but this URL is not for

> > > young children and it shouldn't be displayed in most Sunday School

> > > Classes well,

> > > maybe it's OK for some of those down South - I think the folks at

First

> > > Baptist in my ol' hometown would love these .. ;-p

> > >

> > > http://www.gritch.org/jfrancis/wtc.1.html

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

October 10, 2001

Hi Karen,

I don't there was anything derogatory about pacifists in there .. let's

look....

> If you are bothered my four-letter words, if you are a

> peacenik/pacifist ... or if you don't share in the spirit that has taken

hold in America and

> > > shown the world what the true meaning of " Americanism " is - I

recommend

> > > you not click on the below URL - best warning I can give I reckon

> > > >

All he said is if you are a pacifist you more than likely won't like the web

site .. and he wasn't lying right? *LOL* It is not a pacifist thang for

sure! Butch just gave a list of folks who won't like the site, he didn't say

they are one in the all the same

> I was referring to the derogatory comments about pacifists

*Smile*

Most folks are pacifists for the most part as we all want a happy peaceful

world to live in

Chris (list mom)

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

October 10, 2001

> Everyone has their own opinion- I personally see racism in images like a

> cartoon of OBL behind a 7-11 counter,

Awwww, but then ya gotta hate the Simpsons cause of Apu!

as well as maps with " lake of america "

> in place of afghanistan-

That's just a buncha folks rattling off for sure and is NOT a good plan for

the US at all!

I see these as poor, racist humor that goes beyond

> the fact that OBL is a " scumbag "

Not quite " racist " , but then again (especially being Italian) I get a kick

out the show The Sopranos and how DEAD ON TARGET the NYC Tristate area

Italian stereotype is! I laugh my butt off when they go to the bakery and

get (phoenetically spelling for y'all ...) " Sch-woy-ya-delles " or spelled

.... Sfogliatella .. and when they say .... " fuhgedaboudit " I crack up! .....

so ..... which came first, the chicken or the egg, the stereotype, or the

person carrying it out?

*Smile*

Chris

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

October 10, 2001

Hiyas Chris,

I too, have a sense of humor much like yours... whether someone's making fun

of my nationalities.. or anothers... it's still pretty funny!

Hugs,

Marilyn

chrisziggy wrote:

> > Everyone has their own opinion- I personally see racism in images like a

> > cartoon of OBL behind a 7-11 counter,

>

> Awwww, but then ya gotta hate the Simpsons cause of Apu!

>

> as well as maps with " lake of america "

> > in place of afghanistan-

>

> That's just a buncha folks rattling off for sure and is NOT a good plan for

> the US at all!

>

> I see these as poor, racist humor that goes beyond

> > the fact that OBL is a " scumbag "

>

> Not quite " racist " , but then again (especially being Italian) I get a kick

> out the show The Sopranos and how DEAD ON TARGET the NYC Tristate area

> Italian stereotype is! I laugh my butt off when they go to the bakery and

> get (phoenetically spelling for y'all ...) " Sch-woy-ya-delles " or spelled

> ... Sfogliatella .. and when they say .... " fuhgedaboudit " I crack up! .....

> so ..... which came first, the chicken or the egg, the stereotype, or the

> person carrying it out?

>

> *Smile*

> Chris

> http://www.alittleolfactory.com

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

October 10, 2001

Hi Karen,

I think what Marilyn meant is folks who volunteered right at the scene and

dealt with the carnage, or folks who lost loved ones aren't in " pacifist

mode " towards terrorists right now, even the most pacifist person might be

not so pacifist now ..

*Smile*

Chris

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

-

" Karen Johnson " <johnson.ka

Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:34 PM

Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

and His Scumbag Group

> You are making some dreadful generalisations. How do you know that no

peace

> person helped with the clean up? Or that no pacifist lost someone in the

> WTC?I have lost members of my family in conflicts and this makes my

> committment to pacifism even stronger. If you are calling pacifists

> cowards,what about the Quakers in WW2 who volunteered to defuse and clear

> bombsites-is that cowardly?If you wish to continue this, I think we should

> declare this off topic-that does not mean I am opting out!

> Karen

> > Hi Karen,

> >

> > It's hard to see people in pacifist/peace marches when we've had war

> declared on us.... do we not or are we not supposed to defend ourselves?

> > Pacifism is wonderful, " in it's place " - keep in mind that this is

" only "

> my opinion and the same opinion, by each and every poll in America.

> > If you think not standing up to terrorism, will actually stop all this,

> think again.. it won't. And remember.. perhaps those pacifists didn't

> > happen to volunteer in the massive clean-up that will be ongoing for

> probably a year............or lose their friends, family or any loved

> > ones.... makes a bit of a difference......

> > I happen to think that United We Stand is a good thing... as is God

Bless

> America.......

> >

> > Marilyn

October 10, 2001

You are making some dreadful generalisations. How do you know that no peace

person helped with the clean up? Or that no pacifist lost someone in the

WTC?I have lost members of my family in conflicts and this makes my

committment to pacifism even stronger. If you are calling pacifists

cowards,what about the Quakers in WW2 who volunteered to defuse and clear

bombsites-is that cowardly?If you wish to continue this, I think we should

declare this off topic-that does not mean I am opting out!

Karen

-

Marilyn Nicholson <menicholson7

Wednesday, October 10, 2001 10:09 PM

Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

and His Scumbag Group

> Hi Karen,

>

> It's hard to see people in pacifist/peace marches when we've had war

declared on us.... do we not or are we not supposed to defend ourselves?

> Pacifism is wonderful, " in it's place " - keep in mind that this is " only "

my opinion and the same opinion, by each and every poll in America.

> If you think not standing up to terrorism, will actually stop all this,

think again.. it won't. And remember.. perhaps those pacifists didn't

> happen to volunteer in the massive clean-up that will be ongoing for

probably a year............or lose their friends, family or any loved

> ones.... makes a bit of a difference......

> I happen to think that United We Stand is a good thing... as is God Bless

America.......

>

> Marilyn

>

> Karen Johnson wrote:

>

> > I was referring to the derogatory comments about pacifists

> >

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

October 10, 2001

Hi Karen.. - Chris,

Whatever... sorry to offend you <Karen> - maybe you should re-read what I said,

since what I said was not quite at all what you replied to!

And.. if this happens to be the topic, please don't feel you have the right to

decide for me whether or not I shall respond to it - that's not

your choice, it's mine. Or if Chris should tell or ask me not to post on this

topic, after all, it's her list.. not mine or

yours........goodness, where on earth did I call pacifist's cowards... think

those are your words - not mine...off topic.. opting out??? what

on earth are you talking about? Remember, we can always just agree to disagree,

right? Quakers... WWII.... goodness.. calm down, will ya? I

respect your opinion.. how about respecting mine? ( you sure don't sound too

peaceful... sorry, but you don't.. ) I have no wish to argue w/you

- I was merely expressing my opinion as I said, just like you had the right to

do.

Thanks for defending me, Chris, and allowing me to express my opinions and

you're right... about what I said, though I didn't say that 'nobody'

volunteered who happened to be a pacifist,. I know you picked up on that

though.. I said, " perhaps " ... quite a different meaning. You're also

right in that I'm not really in a pacifist mode right now, in that we are in the

midst of defending our own country - one I'm proud to live in,

be a part of and love dearly.

Marilyn

Karen Johnson wrote:

> You are making some dreadful generalisations. How do you know that no peace

> person helped with the clean up? Or that no pacifist lost someone in the

> WTC?I have lost members of my family in conflicts and this makes my

> committment to pacifism even stronger. If you are calling pacifists

> cowards,what about the Quakers in WW2 who volunteered to defuse and clear

> bombsites-is that cowardly?If you wish to continue this, I think we should

> declare this off topic-that does not mean I am opting out!

> Karen

> -

> Marilyn Nicholson <menicholson7

>

> Wednesday, October 10, 2001 10:09 PM

> Re: OT: Some American Thoughts on Osama bin Laden

> and His Scumbag Group

>

> > Hi Karen,

> >

> > It's hard to see people in pacifist/peace marches when we've had war

> declared on us.... do we not or are we not supposed to defend ourselves?

> > Pacifism is wonderful, " in it's place " - keep in mind that this is " only "

> my opinion and the same opinion, by each and every poll in America.

> > If you think not standing up to terrorism, will actually stop all this,

> think again.. it won't. And remember.. perhaps those pacifists didn't

> > happen to volunteer in the massive clean-up that will be ongoing for

> probably a year............or lose their friends, family or any loved

> > ones.... makes a bit of a difference......

> > I happen to think that United We Stand is a good thing... as is God Bless

> America.......

> >

> > Marilyn

> >

> > Karen Johnson wrote:

> >

> > > I was referring to the derogatory comments about pacifists

> > >

> >

> > My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> > http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

> >

October 10, 2001

Okay, at the risk of getting it chopped into, I'm going to stick my neck out

here...

I am NOT a pacifist. Never have been, Never will be. It ain't me.

However...

I DO have problems with what is going on in Afghanistan right now. Quite

frankly I don't think it's going to do a whole lot for anyone. OBL and his

T-buddies are going to dig themselves in and it's going to take a LOT of

death to get them out.

Don't get me wrong. The Taliban is horrific. I want them out as much as

anyone else. OBL is worse than scum. He's a murdering coward, and I would

LOVE to see him fry, slowly, bit by bit, for YEARS. (told you I wasn't a

pacifist, not even a wiccan) for EACH person whose death he has caused.

However, as recent and not so recent history has shown us, Afghanistan is

going to be REALLY difficult to crack open and get those maggots out. Every

single person I've seen/heard, who has any knowledge on the subject, has

admitted that it's going to take ground forces, and that is an entirely

nother hell.

I believe the estimates of the number of Land Mines that the Russians left

behind is between 2 and 20 million. They kill and maim every day. How do

you deal with THOSE kinds of numbers.

Do I have any answers? NO. But as I mentioned in the beginning, I have my

doubts that this is the way to go.

I keep hearing the term " softening up " ... Russians tried it, it didn't work.

Who's getting softened up? OBL? Nah! He's in a cave somewhere? Taliban

Leadership? Nope. They're in a similar type hidey hole.

There have been suggestions that we could use heat seeking devices, only

problem with that, is they have to be placed in proximity...ground forces.

There were other devices that could be placed to detect deep caves, possibly

inhabited...Again it will take Ground Forces...

Anyway, there's MY stand on it. So heave with the AXE! ;-)

Cheers!

Kathleen Petrides

SmeLLeNNiuM: 101 Aromatic Stories

http://www.101aromas.com

-

" Marilyn Nicholson " <menicholson7

Wednesday, October 10, 2001 2:09 PM